Date   

Re: N&W box car trucks identification needed !

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor asked:
"Simplex perhaps? I have a feeling I've seen them before but can't think of the name:
Norfolk & Western N&W 48826 B-5 box car 8x10 photo 
Garth Groff replied:
"I think Red Ball or Cape Line offered this truck in pot metal."
I've attached a PDF of the Cape Line's flyer that I uploaded to the files section many years ago for reference.  This truck is neither the T-2 "Heavy Duty Bettendorf" Truck nor he T-14 Simplex truck.  Note that both the Cape Line trucks are elliptical spring trucks, while the truck in the photo has coil springs.
I've seen this same truck under a PRR Class X37B automobile boxcar from the Bob's Photo collection.  Consulting PRR Tracing #C422800-D, "Freight Cars, Trucks, Classification", Version D dated 3/10/1947 and eliminating other known trucks equipping Class X37B, I believe this is a Buckeye All-Service coil - semi-elliptic truck. http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRTruckTypes-C422800.html Unfortunately, Rob doesn't have a tracing of this truck on his website.  Hopefully another list member has more on this truck.   Ben Hom


Re: N&W box car trucks identification needed!

golden1014
 

Tim,

I recognize them--they're the same trucks that were under PRR's experimental war emergency box car--their 50-foot single-sheathed car.  If I had RP Cyc handy I could tell you exactly what kind of trucks they were.

John
 
John Golden
O'Fallon, IL

St. Louis RPM: 07-08 Aug 2015
http://icg.home.mindspring.com/rpm/stlrpm.htm


Re: N&W box car trucks identification needed !

 

If you read my posts, it was obvious that I had thought Capeline made that truck, and then said they did not. The link was for those who might have wanted to look at what they DO make. 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Jul 1, 2015, at 8:23 AM, hayden_tom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

So Brian , what does that link tell us about the trucks on the N&W car?  I did not see a truck that looked like this car, nor did I find a Simplex truck that would tell me it's NOT simplex.Or did I miss something?


Tom


Re: N&W box car trucks identification needed !

hayden_tom@...
 

So Brian , what does that link tell us about the trucks on the N&W car?  I did not see a truck that looked like this car, nor did I find a Simplex truck that would tell me it's NOT simplex.Or did I miss something?

Tom


Re: N&W box car trucks identification needed !

 

Guess not.

http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/Products/Kit_Bits/index.html#Trucks


Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List
<STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 9:42 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] N&W box car trucks identification needed !








Simplex perhaps? I have a feeling I've seen them before but can't think of
the name

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121691737202

Tim O'


Re: N&W box car trucks identification needed !

 

Didn¹t Cape Line make something like this?

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List
<STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 9:42 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] N&W box car trucks identification needed !








Simplex perhaps? I have a feeling I've seen them before but can't think of
the name

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121691737202

Tim O'









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Tank car ratio?

Tim O'Connor
 

David Lehlbach wrote

> I believe that the 1 billboard for every 10 black cars to be only somewhat true
> ... It depends on the LOCALE you are modeling.

Yes. I'm reminded of that Robert Morris photo of the SP Fresno CA yard that shows two
strings of WINE tank cars (about 40 cars are visible) in a huge variety of shapes and
sizes and (very likely) paint and lettering schemes.

But then I've also seen yard photos showing dozens of black tank cars (some cars with
bold lettering like DX or SINCLAIR etc) generally in the vicinity of oil refineries,
mixed with occasional strings of silver or white MAGNOLIA or TEXACO or other such cars.

I think the trend in the postwar era was for bolder paint schemes for NEW cars built
for private leases but wherever the older cars predominated, you would mostly still see
plain black tank cars.

Tim O'Connor


Re: N&W box car trucks identification needed !

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim,

I think Red Ball or Cape Line offered this truck in pot metal.

The boxcar itself is a unique design I've admired many times and would love to have in a resin kit. Note the 10-rung ladders, 8-panel sides and the interesting side sill.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 6/30/15 10:42 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
 


Simplex perhaps? I have a feeling I've seen them before but can't think of the name

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121691737202

Tim O'



N&W box car trucks identification needed !

Tim O'Connor
 

Simplex perhaps? I have a feeling I've seen them before but can't think of the name

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121691737202

Tim O'


Re: Tank car ratio?

Tangent Scale Models
 

---In STMFC@..., <tony@...> wrote :

Stan Agar wrote:

 
Can anyone help with a rough ratio of tank cars in plain black to those in other colors and also with large ‘Billboard’ lettering? I have been buying and building mostly plain-Jane black cars with just reporting marks and only a few brighter cars as that’s what seems to turn up in photos. I’m aware that location will be a factor and maybe the tendency of photographers to take pictures of colourful cars rather then the plainer ones (Been there, done that). My interest is the early 1950’s in the south east.
Tony Thompson said:
     "RIchard Hendrickson used to say that there were at least 9 or 10 black cars for every "billboard" one, and he suspected the ratio was even higher. (Good luck finding layouts which reflect that.) But decisive evidence is hard to find."

Tony, while I heard Richard say the same thing, I believe that the 1 billboard for every 10 black cars to be only somewhat true, and I think the answer is more complicated because we really should study what our prototypes hauled in the locales we model.  My thoughts.

1.  It depends on the LOCALE you are modeling.  A dusty branchline, such as what Jared Harper is modeling with his ATSF Alma Branch, may only see fuel oil deliveries.  These would be general service ICC-103 cars, which are typically generic black cars of 6-10K gallons (typically), although there were some colorful cars as well (Champlin Refining, Sinclair, etc).  However, a different dusty branchline may see those ICC-103s plus anhydrous ammonia deliveries, in season of course (do you model in season?).  MOST anhydrous ammonia tanks during the steam era had billboard schemes because they were leased to companies that wanted to advertise what they were selling.  At the other end of the spectrum would be southern CA mainlines in and out of the LA basin during the war, such as Cajon Pass, where dominant unit trains of fuel cars were the norm.  Many of these fuel type cars were indeed black lessee cars.  However, look closer at the other train photos - the manifest trains.  There are specialty tank cars in the mix, and many of the specialty tanks (ie not ICC-103) were painted in billboard colors.  Take the 6K chlorine tanks we've been discussing.  Like anhydrous ammonia, the owners such as hooker or diamond or Wyandotte or ? liked to advertise their "Chlorine Service" on the side.  These move the scale toward billboard cars for a mainline location away from 10 black to 1 billboard. 

2.  It depends on what ERA you are modeling.  If you are modeling the 30s/40s, I think the presence of black cars is higher simply because of the overall gross tank car fleet numbers.  I wish Tim Gilbert were still with us.  Fuel oil ICC-103 tanks were extremely common in the overall fleet percentages at this time.  GA, ACF, and a few of the smaller builders were just beginning to build specialized cars during the 30s/40s in greater numbers, such as the aforementioned 6K chlorine tanks, but once the postwar economy picked up steam, GA/ACF/NA began to produce specialized tank cars of many types in significant enough numbers for modelers to begin to pay attention.  The mid/late 40s was a tipping point toward COLORFUL schemes in my opinion.  Not 50:50 but certainly better than 10:1.  Many of the tank cars built in the later 40s and 50s seemed to have billboard schemes on them.  Additionally, all tank cars were seeing frequent repaints due to their harsh service lives.  Many of the older cars were repainted into colorful schemes as they were leased out.  I've found many examples of fresh paint on a 1940s/50s built car built 1-3 years earlier.  It has been noted on this list before that general service ICC-103 tanks became surplus after the war which probably meant the builders had to rely upon specialized tanks for revenue.  This is when you started to see more and more of these specialized tanks, such as bromine 2500 gallon tanks, heresite lined muriatic acid tanks, rubber lined acid tanks, hydrogen peroxide tanks, different flavors of insulated tanks with and without special linings, etc. 

So if you model the late 40s and early 1950s and think you only need black tanks, you may want to reconsider and do some more digging.  One great thing about tank cars is oftentimes they are in mini-"blocks" of their own of a few cars.  When I look to either side of billboard cars, usually half the time there is another billboard car next to it - not black cars on both sides.  Also, reporting marks do matter.  If it is a UTLX car, it is almost always black.  I think we all know that.  But if it is a GA-BUILT car with GATX marks, oftentimes it is billboard.    
Please speak up if you disagree with me; I have spent the better part of 5 years obsessing over tank car photos and I am amazed at the sheer number of billboard cars in service, even when I go back and look at the cars behind steam in Locomotive Quarterly for example.  And I could be wrong about the era thing.  There were many fleets of billboard cars from the teens and 20s.  Said another way, if you look at the Sinclair fleet during the 20s-30s for example, seemingly every car was painted "Sinclair" in huge, bold lettering.  If they aren't look closely at the photo.  Is the lettering there but really weathered out?  The fleet was incredibly statistically relevant, equaling 6580 cars according to the 1936 ORER.

I think billboard schemes are more common than a 10-1 ratio, especially during the 40s/50s, but I haven't been able to prove it yet.

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models 
(Who loves all-black steam era tank cars, by the way) 




Re: first use of large NYC logo

Brad Smith
 

Nice car. The commercial offering has the wrong ends also. 

Brad Smith

Sent from Brad's iPod

On Jun 30, 2015, at 2:46 PM, Rick Jesionowski dti406@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I did one of the experimental cars, the 50' one, the Canada Southern Site shows what lot the car came from but the picture in the NYC Color Guide is not that type of car.  I used a Branchline 50' Box but used 4-4 ends to match the picture. Here is the finished car:


Rick Jesionowski


Re: Swift SRLX 1098

brianleppert@att.net
 

I have a slide of SRLX 1099.  It has 4-4 square cornered Dreadnaught ends.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: Anhydrous Ammonia in Tank Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Steve

I have never seen a photo of a car smaller than 11k carrying anhydrous ammonia.
Same with LPG. Chlorine is much heavier. It's also much more dangerous!

Tim O'Connor

Would Richard's "similar service" include anhydrous ammonia being carried in the same type car used for chlorine?

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: Anhydrous Ammonia in Tank Cars

Tim O'Connor
 


correct -- ammonia and LPG appear to use the same types of cars. I have many
photos of 100 ton, 33,000 gallon ammonia tank cars (as well as LPG of course)



What you say about the variety in the chlorine cars makes sense.  So at 10-11 kgal, they must have used 70-ton trucks?

     No. I have a photo of a 10,500-gal. Hooker chlorine car marked "CAPY 100 000."

Tony Thompson


Re: Anhydrous Ammonia in Tank Cars

Dave Parker
 

Can't explain that one Tony.  I assumed that the ICC 105 tank cars could withstand enough pressure to condense all (or most) of the chlorine (other than the dome space), but maybe not.  Regardless, 10,500 gallons of liquid chlorine at 60 F weighs about 123,000 lbs.  That was the basis of my comment.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Re: first use of large NYC logo

 

Nice. What did you use for the decal?

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List
<STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 1:46 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: first use of large NYC logo







I did one of the experimental cars, the 50' one, the Canada Southern Site
shows what lot the car came from but the picture in the NYC Color Guide is
not that type of car. I used a Branchline 50' Box but used 4-4 ends to
match the picture. Here is the finished car:

http://s765.photobucket.com/user/dti406/media/Box%20Cars/P1010027_zpsc93c066
0.jpg.html?sort=4&o=153

Rick Jesionowski








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Tank car ratio?

Tony Thompson
 

Stan Agar wrote:

 
Can anyone help with a rough ratio of tank cars in plain black to those in other colors and also with large ‘Billboard’ lettering? I have been buying and building mostly plain-Jane black cars with just reporting marks and only a few brighter cars as that’s what seems to turn up in photos. I’m aware that location will be a factor and maybe the tendency of photographers to take pictures of colourful cars rather then the plainer ones (Been there, done that). My interest is the early 1950’s in the south east.

     RIchard Hendrickson used to say that there were at least 9 or 10 black cars for every "billboard" one, and he suspected the ratio was even higher. (Good luck finding layouts which reflect that.) But decisive evidence is hard to find.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Anhydrous Ammonia in Tank Cars

Tony Thompson
 

Dave Parker wrote:

 
What you say about the variety in the chlorine cars makes sense.  So at 10-11 kgal, they must have used 70-ton trucks?

     No. I have a photo of a 10,500-gal. Hooker chlorine car marked "CAPY 100 000."

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Swift SRLX 1098

 

Looks diagonal to me. Just left of the door, you can see a low wide bump on
the roof, and left of it is a narrow one.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List
<STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 1:34 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Swift SRLX 1098







Ted Culotta has a photo for sale on ebay showing SRLX 1098, a wood-sided
reefer with a sliding plug door. I can't make out the ends and roof very
well, but it appears to be a flat panel roof (maybe a rectangular panel
roof?). Does any one have any info on what kind of roof and ends this car
had?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon








.













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: first use of large NYC logo

Rick Jesionowski
 

I did one of the experimental cars, the 50' one, the Canada Southern Site shows what lot the car came from but the picture in the NYC Color Guide is not that type of car.  I used a Branchline 50' Box but used 4-4 ends to match the picture. Here is the finished car:


Rick Jesionowski

48661 - 48680 of 183695