Date   

Re: how late were "USRA" hopper s built?

Benjamin Hom
 

Scott Chatfield asked:
"I guess it shouldn't surprise me to see a 1923 built date on that rebuilt NYC USRA cement hopper that Ben Hom posted a link to. Just how late were 'USRA' twin hoppers built?"
 
Two roads in particular, NYC and L&N, acquired cars of the USRA HM design far in excess to their original allocation in the 1920s.  NYC and subsidiaries originally received 3,000 cars, then acquired ~9,000 cars between 1921-1923.  L&N originally received 1,000 cars, then acquired ~11,000 cars between 1921-1924.
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly frame?

 

Probably has under body dumping doors; there seems to be some mechanisms on
the sides of the fish belly


Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List
<STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2015 at 2:38 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly
frame?







The picture was posted on the B&O list for the N-13 hoppers and there is
this good view of the L&N gon:

http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/ussteel/results/item.do?itemId=/nw/cra/usste
el/CRA-42-110-013


gary laakso
south of Mike Brock


Re: prototype for Pemco 53-foot flatcar?

Richard Townsend
 

The Pemco car appears to be a variation (in terms of the cut-outs on the deck above the side grabs, and the use of 4-wheel trucks) on the Roco/AHM/etc. flat car that had 6-wheel trucks. The space needed for those longer trucks necessitated a longer thin portion before the fishbelly started. The angled bottom to the car ends in side view, the towing eye under the third stake pockets from the ends, plus the number of stake pockets, are the give-aways. I'm not sure of the original prototype, but I am using them lettered for the US Army, for a train hauling Roco M-47 tanks. They are at least similar to the USAX/DODX flats used for that purpose, and may have been based on those army cars.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: blindog@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC
Sent: Wed, Jul 1, 2015 10:39 am
Subject: [STMFC] prototype for Pemco 53-foot flatcar?

 
Pemco made a 53-foot flatcar with riveted fishbelly sides and 16 stake pockets. The thin portion of the sides above the trucks extends a bit further inboard than most designs. Does this car have a prototype? Trying to add some flatcar variety to a friend's layout.

Here's a page with pictures of the model:

http://tycotrain.tripod.com/pemcorailwaysystem/id8.html

Scott Chatfield


Re: prototype for Pemco 53-foot flatcar?

rwitt_2000
 

The side sill profile looks more like some DODX flat cars in their 38000 series, but the Pemco model lacks the three axle heavy duty trucks. I believe AHM once made a model this prototype with more correct trucks

DODX 38063 with USN 6500308

  DODX 38200

 

And there are many other examples at this site.

Bob Witt


I have posted some photos of the 2015 Sahke N Take project

Greg Martin
 

 
Hey Yuze Gize,
 
I have uploaded six photos of my completed car. They are in a folder marked with my name. I think Schuyler has to approve them I think?  They are not yet weathered and I will do that soon. I hate shooting with the sun at my back at the end of the day as the light rays intensify anything red and distort the true color. The shots I took at and oblique to the sun give you a much better interpretation of the true color. The car was a fantastic build.
 
Enjoy and soldier on guys.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 


Re: Help with NYC and B&O Rebuilt Covered Hoppers

golden1014
 

Hi Bob,

Thank you!  This is a big help.  I'll continue looking for photos and now I can get into the ORERs with a little more accuracy.  Would you happen to have any additional photos of the cars modified into covered hoppers?

John

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL


PRR Project group GLA project

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

I am happy to announce that PRRPRO group project #25, the GLA hopper, is now open for discussion!  See our home page at:

PRRPRO is designed to be a collaborative group that builds PRR related project.  Our format is relatively open in that one person is not the “leader” of the project but rather everyone is working on the same car, sometimes in different ways.  All scales are welcome to participate.

Happy hopper building!
Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly frame?

gary laakso
 

The picture was posted on the B&O list for the N-13 hoppers and there is this good view of the L&N gon:
 
 
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock


Re: prototype for Pemco 53-foot flatcar?

water.kresse@...
 

You might want to check out the Pere Marquette's flat cars circa WW2.  My PM Freight Cars book is buried I hope back in the spare room closet.
 
Al Kresse


From: "blindog@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2015 1:39:02 PM
Subject: [STMFC] prototype for Pemco 53-foot flatcar?

 

Pemco made a 53-foot flatcar with riveted fishbelly sides and 16 stake pockets. The thin portion of the sides above the trucks extends a bit further inboard than most designs. Does this car have a prototype? Trying to add some flatcar variety to a friend's layout.

Here's a page with pictures of the model:

http://tycotrain.tripod.com/pemcorailwaysystem/id8.html

Scott Chatfield



Re: prototype for Pemco 53-foot flatcar?

Tim O'Connor
 

Scott

Not to my knowledge -- that inboard taper doesn't look like any other
I can recall. There is a very fine model of a 16 pocket, 53'6" flat car
available -- the former Red Caboose SP F-70-7 (tooling now owned by the
SPH&TS).

Tim O'

Pemco made a 53-foot flatcar with riveted fishbelly sides and 16 stake pockets. The thin portion of the sides above the trucks extends a bit further inboard than most designs. Does this car have a prototype? Trying to add some flatcar variety to a friend's layout.

Here's a page with pictures of the model:

http://tycotrain.tripod.com/pemcorailwaysystem/id8.html

Scott Chatfield


Re: N&W box car trucks identification needed !

Ray Thibaut
 

It looks like the Buckeye Steel Castings Company All-Service Freight Car Truck used on one experimental X38B Composite boxcar # 119991. There is a photo and drawing on page #3 of the Railway Prototype Cyclopedia - Vol. 19.
Ray Thibaut
teabow1958@gmail.com


Re: first use of large NYC logo

 

Very good! Did not know of this seller. Will have to make up a list of
decals I¹d like to get!

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List
<STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2015 at 1:25 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: first use of large NYC logo







" Nice. What did you use for the decal?

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni"


Brian I got the decal from Modern Rails, they also have the one for the 40'
car, but I have not figured out how to replicate that car, it is really
different.

http://www.modernrails.com/decals-in-ho-and-n-scales.html

Rick Jesionowski








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: first use of large NYC logo

Rick Jesionowski
 

"  Nice. What did you use for the decal?

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni"


Brian I got the decal from Modern Rails, they also have the one for the 40' car, but I have not figured out how to replicate that car, it is really different.


Rick Jesionowski


Re: Tank car ratio?

Cyril Durrenberger
 

A few comments on this issue:

1. It is important to determine what railroad and the location you are modeling. There was a large difference in the number and owners of tank cars that traveled over the Houston East & West Texas (HE&WT) from Houston to Shreveport and the Galveston Harrisburg and San Antonio (GH&SA) west of San Antonio. Both were part of the T&NO. A number of tank cars have historically traveled on the HE&WT to connect the oil and chemical industries with the lines that went north and east of Shreveport. Not many tank cars were sent west of San Antonio on the GH&SA line. Lists of private owner roads on these two lines show this clearly.

2. The industries located on the model railroad will make a difference in what tank cars are needed to service them. The best example is the companies that owned bulk oil plants on the line. Cars for these industries would be expected, but cars for companies not on the line would not be expected, unless they were in the bridge traffic. There may be industries on the line being modeled, but that are not included on the model railroad for which tank cars would be expected on the line. For example there may be a cottonseed oil plant on the line, but not on the model railroad, but its cars would expected to be in trains along the line. There are too many cases to articulate here and they are site specific. These are listed as examples of the sort of thing that happened.

3. I do not know about all oil companies, but a reference in a 1929 article in the Texaco Star indicated that The Texas Oil Company (aka Texaco) was repainting all of their cars hauling gasoline with the silver tank and large black lettering. Tank cars hauling heavy oil were painted black, but with the large white letters. So they repainted and relettered their old cars. So the date being modeled in important.

4. Besides the paint and lettering schemes, the date being modeled is important for other reasons. The tank car fleets were moved sometimes from owner to leaser and this could impact the paint and lettering schemes applied to the cars. Texaco is an example. There was a lot of movement in the names of the companies that owned the oil production and refining facilities. Some names disappeared and some new ones were formed, so the date is important.

5; Crude oil was shipped to refineries in some locations, but not all locations. For example crude oil was shipped from the Humble, Texas oil field for about a year after the field was discovered until pipelines were built, then shipment of crude oil from this field all but disappeared. However, there was one company that shipped by rail rather than pipeline after given special rates on the railroad by the Texas Railroad Commission. The shipping of crude oil was very dependent on the site and time period.

6. Result: It is not possible to give an overall ratio of billboard to black tank cars that will be accurate, unless one is given a specific location or locations, railroad of interest, route of interest and time period. The data on the HE&WT show that the owners of private owner tank cars over the line varied greatly from year to year, with few constant patterns This holds for all periods when tank cars were used on railroads, even today.


Cyril Durrenberger
--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 7/1/15, tangentscalemodels@yahoo.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tank car ratio?
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2015, 10:03 AM


 









---In STMFC@yahoogroups.com,
<timboconnor@...> wrote :

David Lehlbach
wrote


> I
believe that the 1 billboard for every 10 black cars to be
only somewhat true

> ... It depends on the LOCALE you are modeling.



Tim O'Connor wrote:

"I think the trend in the
postwar era was for bolder paint schemes for NEW cars
built

for private leases but wherever the older cars predominated,
you would mostly still see

plain black tank cars."

I agree somewhat.  The older cars were still
REPAINTED regularly and were probably never in original
paint by 1950.  In my collection of photos I don't
think I have a single photo of a 20s-30s tank in original
paint by 1955.  They may still be wearing a very very
similar scheme by 1955, but if you carefully read the
lettering it is clear it was repainted.  This is true for
basic black cars as well as billboard cars - billboard cars
are easy to spot since the logo and/or lettering standards
of many of the brands, take Diamond Chemical for example,
changed regularly, which makes dating photos of those cars a
relatively simple proposition. 

The 20s-30s older cars that were already in the
lease fleets were typically repainted into basic lease black
schemes because they weren't desired for captive service
lease service like the new cars were.  However, the 20s-30s
older cars that were in an existing private fleet, such as
SPX fleet cars belonging to Solvay, were repainted into
Solvay's newest image assuming they weren't sold or
scrapped.  So it is not entirely about the age of the car,
but the service it was in. 



David Lehlbach










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Re: interesting cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Charles Peck
 

Intercolonial Railway was owned by the Canadian Govt. and became part of Canadian National.
Chuck Peck.

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 1:26 PM, 'Gatwood, Elden SAW' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/ussteel/results/item.do?itemId=/nw/cra/ussteel/CRA-42-110-112

Ever heard of Intercolonial Canada"?

Elden Gatwood

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE



how late were "USRA" hopper s built?

D. Scott Chatfield
 

I guess it shouldn't surprise me to see a 1923 built date on that rebuilt NYC USRA cement hopper that Ben Hom posted a link to. Just how late were "USRA" twin hoppers built?

Speaking of which, when were the first offset twin hoppers built?

Thanks

Scott Chatfield


Re: "Dauphin" trucks...

Charles Peck
 

Bowser offered Dolphin tender trucks. I think they were under some Bowser  PRR tenders. 
Chuck Peck

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 1:08 PM, Jeff Ford sectioncar@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Group,


From the "Needle in a Haystack" Department:

Has anyone ever heard of Dauphin trucks?  Are any photos available?  I get the impression that they may be for heavy duty service.  To clarify, they are two-axle trucks.  The earliest Helium tank cars (3 large tanks) rode on such trucks.  

Thank you,
-Jeff Ford
Sanger, TX



Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: interesting cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

What do you think that SAL car is doing on the USS Gary tracks?

I love this kooky stuff...

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 1:43 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: [STMFC] interesting cars (UNCLASSIFIED)



I guess that is one way to add more ventilation to an SAL ventilated car.

BTW, two ahead of the Intercolonial car is a Hocking Valley box car.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 11:26 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] interesting cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/ussteel/results/item.do?itemId=/nw/cra/usste
el/CRA-42-110-112

Ever heard of Intercolonial Canada"?

Elden Gatwood

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

------------------------------------
Posted by: "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <Elden.J.Gatwood@usace.army.mil>
------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: interesting cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Eric Hansmann
 

I guess that is one way to add more ventilation to an SAL ventilated car.

BTW, two ahead of the Intercolonial car is a Hocking Valley box car.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 11:26 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] interesting cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/ussteel/results/item.do?itemId=/nw/cra/usste
el/CRA-42-110-112

Ever heard of Intercolonial Canada"?

Elden Gatwood

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE




------------------------------------
Posted by: "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <Elden.J.Gatwood@usace.army.mil>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Re: interesting cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Dennis Storzek
 

Intercolonial Railway was one of the predecessors to CN.

Dennis Storzek

52721 - 52740 of 187796