Date   

Re: Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly frame?

Eric Hansmann
 

There are four images of this L&N gondola and they all have the same caption.

Coke Plant. 1st Car of Coal from Corp.'s New Mine in Kentucky, Ground Level

http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/ussteel/results/item.do?itemId=/nw/cra/ussteel/CRA-42-110-015

 

It seems odd to me that there is only one car featured. Coal from a mine to a large facility like the USS Gary Works was not transported in one or two cars. Coal would arrive from a mine as a string of several cars or as an entire train. This is also the only L&N car to be seen. There are B&O, EJ&E, and Erie hoppers in the background of the images documenting the L&N gondola. There is no banner to announce the new shipment, unless the pole was part of this. There are no officials on hand for huzzahs and handshakes to document this great industrial moment.

 

The image of this L&N coal gondola reminds me of many images in the Erie-Lackawanna Photo Archive. Many of those photos were taken to document an accident scene and there are usually photos from a few angles.

 

Either way, we have a window into the past to view an interesting freight car in service and catch glimpses of other neat freight cars in the background. As a 1926 railroad modeler, I have far fewer opportunities like this than a post-WW2 modeler.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/

 

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 6:00 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly frame?

 



"The pole or stick is an interesting question. One wonders if these images document an accident scene. Maybe the pole is where someone was standing. "

**

Apparently they made a big deal about this car being the first load with a number of photos. 

 

 So I am thinking " Hey photographer - This is the one"

 

Andy Brusgard

www.ModelEngineers.org




Re: Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly frame?

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <ajb1102@...> wrote :

"The pole or stick is an interesting question. One wonders if these images document an accident scene. Maybe the pole is where someone was standing. "
**
Apparently they made a big deal about this car being the first load with a number of photos. 

 So I am thinking " Hey photographer - This is the one"
=============

Pretty hard to drive a pole of that size into a compacted load of coal. I'd bet it was placed while loading; may have carried a flag (similar to a "topping out" ceremony with a flag attached to the last piece of steel) or a banner. By the time the car arrived at the other end of its journy where these photos were taken, whatever was attached to the pole was long gone.

Dennis Srorzek


Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: interesting cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Dennis Storzek
 

US Steel owned the EJ&E by this time, right? Is it possible that this is a "J" shop or RIP track adjacent to the mill? While the purpose of the J was to connect US Steel to the world, they were a common carrier, and functioned as both terminal RR and belt line around Chicago, so saw lots of general freight not directly related to the steel industry.

Dennis Storzek


Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: interesting cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Eric;

I think you are right. There are a lot of photos of damaged cars in that file, and they are either on adjacent tracks or in line. It does not look like the results of a simple wreck, but who knows.

There are also cases of a lot of unusual things happening in some photos. I wondered if it was possible that USS staged foodstuffs for the large crews working this huge site. We tend to forget that it was the RRs, not trucks, that were delivering much of what was needed in everyday life. These may be cars of inbound or outbound (to USS's site) foodstuffs that were involved in a minor wreck, and have been set aside.

I am looking at a group of photos on the Pitt site that have me asking a whole different set of questions...

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 6:20 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [STMFC] interesting cars (UNCLASSIFIED)



Elden,

I think this is a RIP track area. Go to the image link here.
http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/ussteel/results/item.do?itemId=/nw/cra/usste
el/CRA-42-110-112

Look to the right and there are other links beside Subject Headings. Click
on Maintenance & repair to see a few more views of this SAL ventilate car
and a Missouri Pacific car that is also in bad shape.

I suspect the SAL car was used to bring in material or supplies for the USS
Gary Works. There's even a FW&D stock car on the RIP tracks.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 11:46 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [STMFC] interesting cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

What do you think that SAL car is doing on the USS Gary tracks?

I love this kooky stuff...

Elden Gatwood





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly frame?

ajb1102@...
 

"The pole or stick is an interesting question. One wonders if these images document an accident scene. Maybe the pole is where someone was standing. "
**
Apparently they made a big deal about this car being the first load with a number of photos. 

 So I am thinking " Hey photographer - This is the one"

Andy Brusgard
www.ModelEngineers.org


Re: prototype for Pemco 53-foot flatcar?

Riverboy
 

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't this the same flat car as Tyco put out? It looks about identical. Or is one a "copy cat" of the other? Either way, I've always liked the die work on both.

Tod C Dwyer (Ohio)



On Thursday, July 2, 2015 7:19 AM, "Charles Peck lnnrr152@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Just going on memory 50+ years old here but I think there were similar cars
in Europe with the Seventh Army.  Some units sent armor to the training areas
by rail. 
Chuck Peck

On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 4:51 AM, Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
Tim,

Ah, a mystery! A military secret, perhaps? :~) . My 1958 ORER lists  38016-38665 with 640 cars. Perhaps your lower-numbered cars were added to the 38016 group at some point? Maybe the earlier group went overseas, say during the Korean War, and were not returned to CONUS. They might also have been disposed of as surplus, or reassigned to on-base use and no longer in interchange. Lots of possibilities here.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 7/1/15 7:57 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

I have a question about those USAX (later DODX) flats -- The 1955 ORER
lists them as 38016-38665 and shows 550 cars -- a fully loaded series

But: I have a scan of a photo of USAX 38005 -- which appears to be exactly
the same car -- Yet there is no listing for 38005 or other numbers before
the 38016 series in the ORER. The scan appears to be from a book or magazine
and is supposedly from 1949.

According to my notes 38016-38655 were built by MAGOR in 1953.

Tim O'Connor




The side sill profile looks more like some DODX flat cars in their 38000 series, but the Pemco model lacks the three axle heavy duty trucks. I believe AHM once made a model this prototype with more correct trucks

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3285149 (DODX 38063)





Re: prototype for Pemco 53-foot flatcar?

Charles Peck
 

Just going on memory 50+ years old here but I think there were similar cars
in Europe with the Seventh Army.  Some units sent armor to the training areas
by rail. 
Chuck Peck

On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 4:51 AM, Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Tim,

Ah, a mystery! A military secret, perhaps? :~) . My 1958 ORER lists  38016-38665 with 640 cars. Perhaps your lower-numbered cars were added to the 38016 group at some point? Maybe the earlier group went overseas, say during the Korean War, and were not returned to CONUS. They might also have been disposed of as surplus, or reassigned to on-base use and no longer in interchange. Lots of possibilities here.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 7/1/15 7:57 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
 


I have a question about those USAX (later DODX) flats -- The 1955 ORER
lists them as 38016-38665 and shows 550 cars -- a fully loaded series

But: I have a scan of a photo of USAX 38005 -- which appears to be exactly
the same car -- Yet there is no listing for 38005 or other numbers before
the 38016 series in the ORER. The scan appears to be from a book or magazine
and is supposedly from 1949.

According to my notes 38016-38655 were built by MAGOR in 1953.

Tim O'Connor




The side sill profile looks more like some DODX flat cars in their 38000 series, but the Pemco model lacks the three axle heavy duty trucks. I believe AHM once made a model this prototype with more correct trucks

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3285149 (DODX 38063)



Re: prototype for Pemco 53-foot flatcar?

riverman_vt@...
 

     The photos you posted are very helpful, Bob, but create a question 
regarding #DODX 38200. This car appears to have had either a raised
of reinforced deck added for some special purpose. Does anyone 
know what this is all about?

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: prototype for Pemco 53-foot flatcar?

Tim O'Connor
 


Further examination of the January 1953 ORER --

USAX 38000        39' 0" well flat
     38006        46' 8" flat
     38008        41' 1" flat
     38010-38015  46' 8" flats

If I had a 1951 or 1952 or 1954 ORER I might find out what 38005 was.
NONE of the above are listed in 1955, so I assume they were disposed of
soon after the delivery of the 650 100 ton flats -- along with a whole
bunch of miscellaneous flats of various lengths, from 31164 to 35558.

Tim O'





I have a question about those USAX (later DODX) flats -- The 1955 ORER
lists them as 38016-38665 and shows 550 cars -- a fully loaded series

But: I have a scan of a photo of USAX 38005 -- which appears to be exactly
the same car -- Yet there is no listing for 38005 or other numbers before
the 38016 series in the ORER. The scan appears to be from a book or magazine
and is supposedly from 1949.

According to my notes 38016-38655 were built by MAGOR in 1953.

Tim O'Connor


Re: prototype for Pemco 53-foot flatcar?

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim,

Ah, a mystery! A military secret, perhaps? :~) . My 1958 ORER lists  38016-38665 with 640 cars. Perhaps your lower-numbered cars were added to the 38016 group at some point? Maybe the earlier group went overseas, say during the Korean War, and were not returned to CONUS. They might also have been disposed of as surplus, or reassigned to on-base use and no longer in interchange. Lots of possibilities here.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 7/1/15 7:57 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
 


I have a question about those USAX (later DODX) flats -- The 1955 ORER
lists them as 38016-38665 and shows 550 cars -- a fully loaded series

But: I have a scan of a photo of USAX 38005 -- which appears to be exactly
the same car -- Yet there is no listing for 38005 or other numbers before
the 38016 series in the ORER. The scan appears to be from a book or magazine
and is supposedly from 1949.

According to my notes 38016-38655 were built by MAGOR in 1953.

Tim O'Connor




The side sill profile looks more like some DODX flat cars in their 38000 series, but the Pemco model lacks the three axle heavy duty trucks. I believe AHM once made a model this prototype with more correct trucks

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3285149 (DODX 38063)


Re: Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly frame?

George Courtney
 

I haven't a clue about the pole. But someone checking it was coal all the way down?  Or coal of the ordered quality?  Just a guess.

George Courtney


Re: Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly frame?

Eric Hansmann
 

The pole or stick is an interesting question. One wonders if these images document an accident scene. Maybe the pole is where someone was standing. 

Here's a different view with Erie hoppers in the background. They are also equipped with side discharge doors. 


Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

On Jul 1, 2015, at 6:12 PM, Charles Peck lnnrr152@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

On the L&N gon, I find the pole or pipe sticking up out of the load to be interesting. 
Debris from the loading tipple, perhaps? And the load seems to be mine run coal. Lots of fines
mixed with some lumps. 
Chuck Peck in FL

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 6:54 PM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Dennis brings up a very good point. In many cases of gondolas with clamshell unloading doors, not all of the load was cleared. A decent amount of material still needed to be shoveled into the open area on the car floor to be unloaded. Labor was pretty cheap but as those costs rose, the self-clearing cars became more popular.

 

I can zoom in 250% on these images and see details decently. I don’t see anything above the trucks that would suggest a slope sheet. Note the rivet pattern at the center of the center sill outlines possible center slope sheets between the hoppers.

 

Are those poling pockets on the end of the car bolsters?

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 4:46 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly frame?

 


---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Here's a great side view of that L&N coal gondola with the fishbelly side
sills. If you click on the image there, you can review a slightly larger
size.
http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/ussteel/results/item.do?itemId=/nw/cra/ussteel/CRA-42-110-014

 

==============

The side sills also formed part of the hopper sides. If you look at the above referenced photo, you'll see two rows of rivets at a shallow angle between the doors which define the slopes sheets between the doors. These cars are part way between the flat floor gondola with a couple doors in the floor that the coal could be shoveled through; these had bigger outlets and sloped floors (I wonder if the slope sheets extend above the trucks?) but still weren't "self clearing" like the later cars. Someone still had to go inside with a shovel to push the coal to the outlets.

Dennis Storzek



Re: Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly frame?

Charles Peck
 

On the L&N gon, I find the pole or pipe sticking up out of the load to be interesting. 
Debris from the loading tipple, perhaps? And the load seems to be mine run coal. Lots of fines
mixed with some lumps. 
Chuck Peck in FL

On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 6:54 PM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Dennis brings up a very good point. In many cases of gondolas with clamshell unloading doors, not all of the load was cleared. A decent amount of material still needed to be shoveled into the open area on the car floor to be unloaded. Labor was pretty cheap but as those costs rose, the self-clearing cars became more popular.

 

I can zoom in 250% on these images and see details decently. I don’t see anything above the trucks that would suggest a slope sheet. Note the rivet pattern at the center of the center sill outlines possible center slope sheets between the hoppers.

 

Are those poling pockets on the end of the car bolsters?

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 4:46 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly frame?

 


---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Here's a great side view of that L&N coal gondola with the fishbelly side
sills. If you click on the image there, you can review a slightly larger
size.
http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/ussteel/results/item.do?itemId=/nw/cra/ussteel/CRA-42-110-014

 

==============

The side sills also formed part of the hopper sides. If you look at the above referenced photo, you'll see two rows of rivets at a shallow angle between the doors which define the slopes sheets between the doors. These cars are part way between the flat floor gondola with a couple doors in the floor that the coal could be shoveled through; these had bigger outlets and sloped floors (I wonder if the slope sheets extend above the trucks?) but still weren't "self clearing" like the later cars. Someone still had to go inside with a shovel to push the coal to the outlets.

Dennis Storzek



Re: prototype for Pemco 53-foot flatcar?

Tim O'Connor
 


I have a question about those USAX (later DODX) flats -- The 1955 ORER
lists them as 38016-38665 and shows 550 cars -- a fully loaded series

But: I have a scan of a photo of USAX 38005 -- which appears to be exactly
the same car -- Yet there is no listing for 38005 or other numbers before
the 38016 series in the ORER. The scan appears to be from a book or magazine
and is supposedly from 1949.

According to my notes 38016-38655 were built by MAGOR in 1953.

Tim O'Connor




The side sill profile looks more like some DODX flat cars in their 38000 series, but the Pemco model lacks the three axle heavy duty trucks. I believe AHM once made a model this prototype with more correct trucks

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3285149 (DODX 38063)


Re: Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly frame?

Eric Hansmann
 

Dennis brings up a very good point. In many cases of gondolas with clamshell unloading doors, not all of the load was cleared. A decent amount of material still needed to be shoveled into the open area on the car floor to be unloaded. Labor was pretty cheap but as those costs rose, the self-clearing cars became more popular.

 

I can zoom in 250% on these images and see details decently. I don’t see anything above the trucks that would suggest a slope sheet. Note the rivet pattern at the center of the center sill outlines possible center slope sheets between the hoppers.

 

Are those poling pockets on the end of the car bolsters?

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 4:46 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly frame?

 


---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Here's a great side view of that L&N coal gondola with the fishbelly side
sills. If you click on the image there, you can review a slightly larger
size.
http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/ussteel/results/item.do?itemId=/nw/cra/ussteel/CRA-42-110-014

 

==============

The side sills also formed part of the hopper sides. If you look at the above referenced photo, you'll see two rows of rivets at a shallow angle between the doors which define the slopes sheets between the doors. These cars are part way between the flat floor gondola with a couple doors in the floor that the coal could be shoveled through; these had bigger outlets and sloped floors (I wonder if the slope sheets extend above the trucks?) but still weren't "self clearing" like the later cars. Someone still had to go inside with a shovel to push the coal to the outlets.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly frame?

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <eric@...> wrote :

Here's a great side view of that L&N coal gondola with the fishbelly side
sills. If you click on the image there, you can review a slightly larger
size.
http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/ussteel/results/item.do?itemId=/nw/cra/ussteel/CRA-42-110-014
==============

The side sills also formed part of the hopper sides. If you look at the above referenced photo, you'll see two rows of rivets at a shallow angle between the doors which define the slopes sheets between the doors. These cars are part way between the flat floor gondola with a couple doors in the floor that the coal could be shoveled through; these had bigger outlets and sloped floors (I wonder if the slope sheets extend above the trucks?) but still weren't "self clearing" like the later cars. Someone still had to go inside with a shovel to push the coal to the outlets.

Dennis Storzek


Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: interesting cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Eric Hansmann
 

Elden,

I think this is a RIP track area. Go to the image link here.
http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/ussteel/results/item.do?itemId=/nw/cra/usste
el/CRA-42-110-112

Look to the right and there are other links beside Subject Headings. Click
on Maintenance & repair to see a few more views of this SAL ventilate car
and a Missouri Pacific car that is also in bad shape.

I suspect the SAL car was used to bring in material or supplies for the USS
Gary Works. There's even a FW&D stock car on the RIP tracks.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 11:46 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: [STMFC] interesting cars (UNCLASSIFIED)

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

What do you think that SAL car is doing on the USS Gary tracks?

I love this kooky stuff...

Elden Gatwood


Re: Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly frame?

Eric Hansmann
 

Here's a great side view of that L&N coal gondola with the fishbelly side
sills. If you click on the image there, you can review a slightly larger
size.
http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/ussteel/results/item.do?itemId=/nw/cra/usste
el/CRA-42-110-014

The L&N car seems to be equipped with what has been termed, clamshell
unloading doors. This hardware was pretty popular on coal hoppers and
gondolas in the first few decades of the 20th century. Thousands of cars
used these clamshell doors. Probably one of the most well known applications
was used on the Pennsylvania Railroad H21 class hoppers. The first H21
hoppers were installed in 1909 and over 30,000 of these were in service
before 1920. John Teichmoeller's book, PRR Steel Open Hopper Cars, offers a
good introduction to the car class. Most of these were converted to the more
familiar sawtooth hopper configuration and reclassed. Here's a builder
image.
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?photo=PRR_413787_H21_E6819
_032725.jpg&fr=clH21

A few thousand B&O W-1 class hoppers followed a very similar design and also
used clamshell door hoppers. The Erie had a similar hopper design.

Several thousand PRR GSd gondolas also used similar clamshell unloading
doors. These looked very similar to the GS class, but the angles of the
clamshell doors can sometimes be seen below the side sill. The GSd class is
noted in Al Buchan and Eldon Gatwood fine book, PRR Gondolas, Revenue & Work
Equipment 1869-1968, as having sloped drop bottom doors. A very good side
view of a GSd can be seen at the bottom of page 44 of that book. Here's a GS
gondola so you can see the basic car design.
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?photo=PRR_302520_GS.jpg&fr
=clGS

A per Buchan and Gatwood, 22,516 GSd gondolas were built starting in 1905.
The PRR rebuilt the GSd cars by removing the sloped drop bottom floors and
clamshell doors. These modifications stretched from 1929-1945.

Another common car design that used clamshell unloading doors were the wide
variety of Seley design hoppers and gondolas. Some may argue these were not
a true clamshell design, but it follows a similar design and may predate
what the PRR installed in their hoppers and gondolas. Here's one of
thousands of N&W coal hoppers that used these type of unloading doors.
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns1827.jpeg

Some of the New York Central Lines also used clamshell unloading doors.
Here's a Lot 205-G steel gondola that was built in 1907.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nychr-34407.jpg

There were 3500 Lot 205-G gondolas built in 1907 for four NYC Lines and 3000
similar steel gondolas with clamshell unloading doors built in 1907 as Lot
204-G. A couple thousand similar steel gondolas were built for the P&LE and
PMcK&Y in the 1903-05 span.


These examples are just the tip of the iceberg. Karig's Coal Cars book is
another solid reference point for more images of cars with clamshell
unloading doors.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 2:43 PM
To: STMFC List
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly
frame?

Probably has under body dumping doors; there seems to be some mechanisms on
the sides of the fish belly


Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List
<STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2015 at 2:38 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Why did this L&N car that it needed a huge fishbelly
frame?







The picture was posted on the B&O list for the N-13 hoppers and there is
this good view of the L&N gon:

http://webapp1.dlib.indiana.edu/ussteel/results/item.do?itemId=/nw/cra/usste
el/CRA-42-110-013


gary laakso
south of Mike Brock












------------------------------------
Posted by: BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@gmail.com>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Re: Tank car ratio?

Brian Termunde
 

On my Willapa Harbor branch, I will following the 'Henry Ford' model, any color of tank cars will be allowed as long as it's plain black. I do own a couple of colorful tanks, but they are not intended to be 'runners'.

I just need to find out what if any tank cars would have shown up in Raymond, Wash circa 1953!

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, UT
 
"My Train of Thought left the station without me!"

4a. Re: Tank car ratio?
    Posted by: "Tony Thompson" tony@... sigpress
    Date: Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:57 am ((PDT))

<>

Richard Hendrickson used to say that there were at least 9 or 10 black cars for every "billboard" one, and he suspected the ratio was even higher. (Good luck finding layouts which reflect that.) But decisive evidence is hard to find.

Tony Thompson







Re: Tank car ratio?

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim,

Didn't the silver Texaco billboard lettering disappear when UTLX took over their fleet?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 7/1/15 7:06 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

David Lehlbach wrote

> I believe that the 1 billboard for every 10 black cars to be only somewhat true
> ... It depends on the LOCALE you are modeling.

Yes. I'm reminded of that Robert Morris photo of the SP Fresno CA yard that shows two
strings of WINE tank cars (about 40 cars are visible) in a huge variety of shapes and
sizes and (very likely) paint and lettering schemes.

But then I've also seen yard photos showing dozens of black tank cars (some cars with
bold lettering like DX or SINCLAIR etc) generally in the vicinity of oil refineries,
mixed with occasional strings of silver or white MAGNOLIA or TEXACO or other such cars.

I think the trend in the postwar era was for bolder paint schemes for NEW cars built
for private leases but wherever the older cars predominated, you would mostly still see
plain black tank cars.

Tim O'Connor


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