Date   

Re: white lines on boxcar doors and other markings

Tony Thompson
 

Scott Chatfield wrote:

 

If memory serves, a horizontal white line on the main door of a boxcar meant it had auto loading racks inside. And there are other markings refering to load restraining devices. What I can't remember is in which book should I be looking for this info. I thought it was in the ORER, but a look in a 1965 edition turned up nothing.


       It IS included in the 1953 ORER which NMRA reprinted.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





modeling highway trucks

Tony Thompson
 

No, they're not freight cars, but they carry freight to and from freight cars, and are essential parts of layout scenery. A few weeks back, I asked this list for information about decals for trucks, and got excellent suggestions. I've now put some of the decals to work in a three-part series on modeling of highway trucks. The first one was about straight trucks, the second and third about semi-trailers. If you're interested, here are links:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2015/07/modeling-highway-trucks-part-1-box.html

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2015/07/modeling-highway-trucks-part-2-semi.html

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2015/07/modeling-highway-trucks-part-3-more.html

I should hasten to say that I am not remotely an expert on these kinds of trucks, so would appreciate feedback, especially additions and corrections I should make. My thanks in advance. I have more truck modeling to complete, so will benefit by any advice.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: General tank car discussion pt 6 (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Group;

Thanks for all the interesting input! I like all this additional information.

As follow-on to part 5, I would like to offer a discussion on models of same, and/or a discussion of fleet numbers, prefaced by a summary and interpretation of what you might be asking yourself, based on knowing what you know now (forgive me if I repeat myself here):


1) The class of tank car refers to the construction of the tank and its appliances, which has a large effect on its outward appearance. The construction of the tank depends on what commodity it was meant to haul. Originally, “classes” of tank were defined by the Master Car Builders in 1910, further refined and codified in 1917 by the ARA (as class “ARA III”, for example), then re-named, refined once again, and expanded by the Interstate Commerce Commission in 1927 into the classification system we know today (ex: ICC Class 103). For a breakdown of classes, the features of each class of tank, and the type of commodity carried by each class, I will provide that later.

2) The type of tank car refers to an AAR classification system, apparently used alongside the ICC class system, that only identifies the construction of the tank; i.e., “TM” = conventional (steel); “TG” = glass-lined tank. The importance of this information is that it is supplied in the ORER with the car number, so you can figure out what, generally, the tank car was constructed for, and how many of each were owned, by each owner. For a breakdown of AAR classes, I will also provide that later.

3) What do I need for an appropriate tank car fleet for my era and locale?
a) Figure out your traffic base: Who is on-line that uses tank cars? Petroleum industry? Water Treatment Plants? Who is shipping things through your portion of railroad that would go in a tank car? What run-through traffic would likely have been seen here?
b) Now, find out what they shipped in or out via tank car. What commodity is it that they were shipping? Crude Oil? Asphalt? Chlorine? Go to your maps, track chart, and industry list, and figure this out. You may need to do some research as to what the industries received, and what they shipped. Now, go to Appendix A and see what car type might have been used.

4) How do I model what I need? What are my modeling options?
a) First, how many tank cars are needed for the on-line and off-line shippers? You may have to work to figure this out, but you should be able to make an educated guess based on the research you already did. You may be able to work backwards from a document from that industry that states how much of each product they made in a given year. For instance, a maker of coal tar may produce 100,000 gallons of tar each day. That would require ten 10,000 gallon cars, or approximately twelve 8,000 gallon cars. You may have to use judgment.
b) Now, which tank car classes and types do you need for each of those shippers? Some of the information attached may help. You can take your ORER, look up the shipper, and see what kind of tanks that they owned. Now look in the tables below for the ICC or ARA designation. Finally, look in Appendix “A” to see what class of car would be used for that commodity.

Modeling Issues:

Point 1: There are not that many truly accurate tank cars offered in HO (or other scales) in plastic, but fortunately this is changing. We now have two exquisite Tangent models, plus the P2K Type 21, IM Type 27 and RC post-war. We have few insulated cars, or many sub-classes offered (the best exception being the 103B-W acid car from Tangent). There are a limited number of resin kits currently, but interesting options. Most brass cars have very odd prototypes, or are inaccurate in some way. W.A.Drake did a beautiful GATC car, but is very rare. The major gaps I think could be filled would be the UTLX X-3, and GATC Type 30, plus more modern cars.

Point 2: The major operators of tank car fleets were the major lessors of the cars you would most frequently see. Most of the cars one would on average see would be UTLX, GATX, SHPX, and NATX. All these leased to companies, but retained their company leasing lettering and numbering.

In descending order (for 1962), based on numbers) the top tank car owner/operators:
1. GATX 53,863
2. UTLX ~50,000
3. SHPX 18,909
4. NATX ?~9,000
5. DuPont 1,536
6. PPG (SACX) 1,038
7. Monsanto 943
8. Koppers (KPCX) 514, (KOPX) 128, (KEBX) 55
9. Shell Chemical 379
10. Hooker 333
11. Dow 105
Notice how the top four dominate?

The importance of this is that, if you are trying to model a “representative” tank car fleet, you might need, for example, for a fleet of ~25 cars, perhaps 6-7 GATX, 6 UTLX, maybe 3-4 SHPX, 2 NATX, then 7 other assorted cars. Try, if possible, however, to base all of this on actual industries on your railroad, and not an “averaging” approach.

Point 3: Don’t act on the temptation to get a lot of “billboard” tank cars painted in bright colors. These schemes were painted on a handful of cars, with most of the tank cars being painted black. There was good reason for this. Billboard paint jobs did not last long with the kind of stuff they were putting in tanks, in addition to the cost involved. If you have an on-line shipper like Hooker, Hercules, Stauffer, Gulf, or Belcher, you may have an excuse. But look at your yard photos.

Point 4: Most tank cars (in fact the vast majority) on a layout should be ICC 103 or 103-W (welded) tanks. For a general representation, there should be a few insulated thrown in, plus a variety with dome platforms. Add some 105's for propane or chlorine, if you serve those industries.

Point 5: Because UTLX used its own designs, you can probably only justify 1 AC&F-built (like the LL, RC, and IM HO models) tank in UTLX colors. The same goes for GATX, which also manufactured its own tank cars. So, that leaves you, from available state-of-the-art plastic models, 1 or 2 UTLX (Type 21, 27 or 103 welded), 1 GATX (ditto), 2-3 SHPX (any of those types), and various other sundry AC&F-built tanks. In a general representation, you are missing 4 UTLX-design, 4 GATX-design, 2 NATX-design, and various other GATX and NATX-sold tanks for those and other owner/operators.

Point 6: You may also need some ICC 105A (pressure) tanks, of which the only really accurate models are the AHM tank (which requires major upgrading), the Atlas 11k tank, and the Trix model (which requires even greater upgrading). These are what you need for anhydrous ammonia, chlorine, propane (LPG), and other pressurized (liquefied) gases. If you have an on-line water treatment plant or other chlorine user, you may be able to justify a multiple unit tank car like the MTS brass model.

What do you do about UTLX, GATX, and NATX? Sunshine made a beautiful, but difficult, UTLX X-3, the most common UTLX car until at least the 1950’s, and in several capacities. Other than that, you could kit-bash a Red Caboose ACF car into a UTLX prototype. See Mont Switzer’s MM article for his take on this. It may also be possible to bash certain other kits into a passable UTL or GATC-produced tank car.

For the rest of GATX and NATX you are in trouble. You will have to face a substantial kit-bash or scratchbuild of these cars, particularly for the NATX’s “one car for each commodity” type of weird operation. Don’t get me wrong, they had lots of cars, but few match what you can get. See the Alan Mende articles in MR if you want to go this far. There was also one OVL brass car that is good for a ~4k specialty car.

Finally, you could model a reasonable fleet by simply buying small groups of the LifeLike P2K AC&F Type 21, in 8K, 10K (and their as-yet-unreleased insulated) variants, the Intermountain AC&F Type 27’s in 8K and 10K, and the Red Caboose 10K post-war car, plus the Tangent cars. The majority of these cars should be from the 3 or 4 major lessors, with additional cars from on-line customers particular to your area. This could be supplemented by the Atlas 11K 105A300 car for LPG and anhydrous ammonia service, plus perhaps the Trix 6K 105 for chlorine to those water treatment plants. It would also be nice to have at least one or two of the Sunshine UTLX X-3’s, perhaps in 6.5K and 8K varieties, and maybe a brass car or two, and a few kit-bashes of the Athearn, Walthers, Red Caboose, or other tank car kits. The Red Caboose kit-bash to a UTLX prototype is not too forbidding, and kit-bashes of other available kits have not begun to be explored fully. Oh, don’t overlook the possibilities in the Tichy tank car, from which the tank can be used as a nice 4-course War Emergency car on top of a Type 27 frame; the AHM tank car, from which a decent mid-50’s ICC 105A300W can be created, and the Athearn single-dome and 3-dome car kits, from which a large GATC prototype might be bashed!

I know I have missed much, but this is a start...

Elden Gatwood

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


white lines on boxcar doors and other markings

D. Scott Chatfield
 

If memory serves, a horizontal white line on the main door of a boxcar meant it had auto loading racks inside. And there are other markings refering to load restraining devices. What I can't remember is in which book should I be looking for this info. I thought it was in the ORER, but a look in a 1965 edition turned up nothing.

Also, the notes section for NYC's automobile cars, such as the 52000-series, says most have F type auto racks and a few have G type racks, but I didn't find anything telling me what the differences are between the racks. My guess is F=Ford and G=GM, but those words aren't very long so why didn't they just spell it out?

Scott Chatfield


Re: White Dome Housings on ACF ICC-105A Tank Cars (1947 to early 1950s)

Guy Wilber
 

Dan wrote:

"Mr. Kendall said that according to recent advice from the ODT, based on report from tank car owners and shippers, present instruction, in effect since Oct. 3, 1946 have not resulted in any marked improvement in turn-around time on pressure tank cars. He said this condition was due apparently to the fact that those directly concerned with their movement are not able to distinguish and give necessary attention to the cars."


Nicely done, Dan! You made Ed's day for sure. Thank you for the assist.

Kindest Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: RE: [bbfcl] General tank car discussion pt 4 (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Chuck;

Yes, the type 108's were considered tank cars. One thing I noted in early research was that virtually ALL tank cars were wood at one time. Steel, aluminum and other variations were just better/more durable for most commodities, once they figured out how to make them robust and practical enough.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 7:53 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [STMFC] RE: [bbfcl] General tank car discussion pt 4 (UNCLASSIFIED)



Thank you so much. You are filling HUGE holes in my tank car education, things I did not
know that I did not know. One question; were the wooden pickle cars considered tank cars and did
they fit into some classification? Hirsch Bros. who were or became Paramount had a location
in Louisville KY so I saw some at times. One was given to the Kentucky Railway Museum but
I understand that the residue of the brine caused it to self-destruct in time.
Chuck Peck

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 7:16 PM, David Sieber ealabhan0@live.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:







Eldon,
Please, continue with whatever else you have on additional tank car classes. I - and doubtless others - am saving these to be my one go-to reference on tank car basics. Although, you can certainly go into as much detail as you wish; e.g., the differences between ICC 103 hazardous vs 203 nonflammable/food grade tank appliances, etc. Extremely useful and valuable information; wish I'd been at your WPM clinic several years ago.
Thanks, Dave Sieber, Reno NV

________________________________

To: bbfcl@yahoogroups.com; STMFC@yahoogroups.com
From: bbfcl@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 20:17:39 +0000
Subject: [bbfcl] General tank car discussion pt 4 (UNCLASSIFIED)
[snip]
There are also the ARA classes which I left out detailed discussion of, but are important to understand how things were being constructed prior to 1927 (and 1917). Also the so-called "War Emergency" cars of WW2. Are any of you interested by this point?

Elden Gatwood

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE







Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: White Dome Housings on ACF ICC-105A Tank Cars (1947 to early 1950s)

lstt100
 

Ed,

Railway Age January 25, 1947:

"W.C. Kendall, Chairman of the Car Service Division of the AAR has notified all roads that because there has been no diminution in the demand for pressure type tank cars, nor in the need for their expeditious movement, arrangement have been set up whereby the dome of all such cars will be painted white by owners and shippers so that they may be distinguished and move promptly.

Mr. Kendall said that according to recent advice from the ODT, based on report from tank car owners and shippers, present instruction, in effect since Oct. 3, 1946 have not resulted in any makred improvement in turn-around time on pressure tank cars.  He said this condition was due apparently to the fact that those directly concerned with their movement are not able to distinguish and give necessary attention to the cars.

He added that painting the car domes white should facilitate ready identification, insure prompt handling of all loaded and empty cars and eliminate avoidable delays."

Dan Holbrook


---In STMFC@..., <hawk0621@...> wrote :

Group,
Starting in 1947 and continuing to about 1953, a high percentage of ACF-built large-capacity ICC-105A tank cars (i.e., 10,500 & 11,000 gallons for propane or anhydrous ammonia) had white dome housings on cars otherwise painted black or other colors. This was not found on similar cars built 1946 and before.

Warren (WRNX) cars with green dome housings were exceptions as were a relatively few other cars that received dome housings painted black, aluminum, or other colors. I have not found white dome housings to be used by other tank car builders during this time. Guy Wilbur has researched A.A.R. records and found no requirements for white dome housings.

Does anyone know the significance or reason for the white dome housings?

Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Triple Valve Questions

Dave Nelson
 

I agree.   Thanks Dennis!

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 6:05 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Triple Valve Questions

 




It is a very readable manual with many, many illustrations, including KC brake rigging, single-phase air compressors and cross-compound air compressors.  At least take a look at it!

Thanks Dennis, this is a great find!

 

gary laakso

south of Mike Brock

 

Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 9:33 AM

Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Triple Valve Questions

 

 

Dave,

You also need to figure in the "brake pipe propagation rate", the amount of time it takes the change in pressure to reach all the cars in the train. For a service application, it is generally accepted that this is 0.1 seconds per car, so the brakes on the last car of a hundred car train don't begin to apply until ten seconds after the first cars do. This is with the help of "quick acting" control valves, which vent the train pipe locally as they sense an application, thus speeding the propagation down the train. Until very recently, the propagation rate of a release would have been much slower; the first cars drawing air to replenish their reservoirs tending to slow the pressure increase to cars further back in the train. Modern control valves have an accelerated release feature that vents air from the emergency reservoir into the train pipe to counteract this.

While looking to get a hard and fast figure for the propagation rate, I ran into what I think is the best explanation of steam and transition era brake equipments I've ever seen, the Air Brake & Train Handling Manual published by Railtown 1897 State Historic Park, the operating unit of the California State Railway Museum at Jamestown, CA. It is available as a downloadable PDF file here:

http://railtown.team.parks.ca.gov/volunteers/Document%20Library20/1/ABTH%20Manual%20Railtown.pdf

And should be required reading for everyone on this list.

Dennis Storzek





Unidentified Cars At Texas State Railroad

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Recently, I visited the Texas State Railroad (https://www.texasstaterr.com/) which operates a museum and excursion trains.

 

On the grounds are a number of railroad cars in various stages of rehabilitation or lack of same. Some of these cars have no identifying reporting marks. I asked a representative about these cars after I discovered their website does not have a listing of the inventory or where the cars came from. I was told such a listing was something they planned to do in the future.

 

So, I have place three images in the group’s Photo Section in the album titled “Bob Chaparro Images”. One is a hopper car and the other two are of a livestock car.

 

Can anyone shed more light on the identity of these two cars?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet , CA


Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: RE: General tank car discussion pt 3 (UNCLASSIFIED)

Eric Hansmann
 

Ed Kaminski's AC&F Tank Cars is a great reference with loads of photos. 



Bob Karig's Coal Cars: The First Three Hundred Years covers much more than the subject. Trucks, lettering, reweigh info, brake systems, and lots of hardware are reviewed. It's an essential in my library. 



Everyone has at least one favorite reference. 


Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX


On Jul 6, 2015, at 2:11 PM, Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

In general, this type of information is hard to come by. 

I would like to see pointers to related books or on-line sources for the range of RR cars.

If that doesn’t exist, it’s my hope that this group will compile what appears in the posting as data file saves for easier discovery by modelers that missed the then past posts.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi


Re: Triple Valve Questions

gary laakso
 

It is a very readable manual with many, many illustrations, including KC brake rigging, single-phase air compressors and cross-compound air compressors.  At least take a look at it!
Thanks Dennis, this is a great find!
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
 

Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 9:33 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Triple Valve Questions
 
 

Dave,

You also need to figure in the "brake pipe propagation rate", the amount of time it takes the change in pressure to reach all the cars in the train. For a service application, it is generally accepted that this is 0.1 seconds per car, so the brakes on the last car of a hundred car train don't begin to apply until ten seconds after the first cars do. This is with the help of "quick acting" control valves, which vent the train pipe locally as they sense an application, thus speeding the propagation down the train. Until very recently, the propagation rate of a release would have been much slower; the first cars drawing air to replenish their reservoirs tending to slow the pressure increase to cars further back in the train. Modern control valves have an accelerated release feature that vents air from the emergency reservoir into the train pipe to counteract this.

While looking to get a hard and fast figure for the propagation rate, I ran into what I think is the best explanation of steam and transition era brake equipments I've ever seen, the Air Brake & Train Handling Manual published by Railtown 1897 State Historic Park, the operating unit of the California State Railway Museum at Jamestown, CA. It is available as a downloadable PDF file here:

http://railtown.team.parks.ca.gov/volunteers/Document%20Library20/1/ABTH%20Manual%20Railtown.pdf

And should be required reading for everyone on this list.

Dennis Storzek


Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: RE: General tank car discussion pt 3 (UNCLASSIFIED)

Aley, Jeff A
 

Mike,

 

               For box cars, see www.steamerafreightcars.com  under “Prototype”.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 1:11 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [STMFC] RE: General tank car discussion pt 3 (UNCLASSIFIED)

 

 

In general, this type of information is hard to come by. 

 

I would like to see pointers to related books or on-line sources for the range of RR cars.

 

If that doesn’t exist, it’s my hope that this group will compile what appears in the posting as data file saves for easier discovery by modelers that missed the then past posts.

 

Best to ya,

Mike Bauers

Milwaukee, Wi

 

On Jul 6, 2015, at 11:17 AM, 'Gatwood, Elden  wrote:

 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Mike;

Other cars types, for example being?

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message——
Mike Bauers….
When this series of very informative postings is done, could someone gather them and install them in the group data files?

Is there a publication or website that has this information across other car types?


Re: General tank car discussion pt 4 (UNCLASSIFIED)

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

I remember seeing a Standard Brands wooden vinegar car in Oakland, California in the 1970s. Of course I didn't have a camera. In fact, I think I was driving on the #17 freeway, and couldn't have stopped anyway.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 7/6/15 6:20 PM, James E Kubanick jekuban@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
Yes, Heinz did roster a few of these car but I don't know how many. When I worked at the Heinz plant in Pittsburgh in the early'60's, they would still occasionally show up there.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV



On Monday, July 6, 2015 4:21 PM, "'Gatwood, Elden SAW' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Groups;

On to the ICC106 to 108:

ICC 106A500 (obsolete 12/19/64), ICC 106A800 (obsolete 12/19/64): Chlorine, Anhydrous Ammonia, Sulfur Dioxide, Hydrogen Sulfide (A800)
Multiple Unit with Removable Steel Forge-Welded Tanks Mounted on Underframe
Each Tank Approximately One Ton Capacity
Each Tank Equipped with Loading and Discharge Valves and Safety Vent or Vent Set for Pressure Not Exceeding 375 psi (500) or 600 psi (800)

Yes, this is that MTS brass flat car with removable tanks. There were not that many of them. I have seen them in Penn Salt, Diamond, and maybe 3 other schemes in photos (Niagara?). I understand many of them were used servicing water treatment plants. Nice car; too bad we have no decals.....

ICC 107A****: Helium, Hydrogen, Oxygen
Multiple Unit Seamless Steel Tanks Mounted on Underframe
Marking **** is Dependent on Test Pressure of Tanks

This is the "Helium" car. There have been several discussions on this on-list.

ICC 108 (obsolete 8/31/56), ICC 108A (obsolete 8/31/56): Hydrochloric Acid, Vinegar
Tank Car Having Wooden Stave Metal-Hooped Tanks
Tanks Must be Interior-Lined, Coated or Treated to Withstand Action of Hydrochloric Acid
Wooden Tanks Must not Have Side or Bottom Openings

And this, then, is the so-called "vinegar" car. Standard brands had some, as well as others; maybe Heinz?. The Sunshine car models this class.

None of these classes were all that numerous, and if you are modeling many locations, you would never have seen them. These may be the ones most of you can avoid.

There are also the ARA classes which I left out detailed discussion of, but are important to understand how things were being constructed prior to 1927 (and 1917). Also the so-called "War Emergency" cars of WW2. Are any of you interested by this point?

Elden Gatwood

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE





Re: [bbfcl] General tank car discussion pt 4 (UNCLASSIFIED)

Charles Peck
 

Thank you so much. You are filling HUGE holes in my tank car education, things I did not
know that I did not know.  One question; were the wooden pickle cars considered tank cars and did
they fit into some classification?  Hirsch Bros. who were or became Paramount had a location
in Louisville KY so I saw some at times. One was given to the Kentucky Railway Museum but
I understand that the residue of the brine caused it to self-destruct in time.
Chuck Peck

On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 7:16 PM, David Sieber ealabhan0@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Eldon,
     Please, continue with whatever else you have on additional tank car classes.  I - and doubtless others - am saving these to be my one go-to reference on tank car basics.  Although, you can certainly go into as much detail as you wish; e.g., the differences between ICC 103 hazardous vs 203 nonflammable/food grade tank appliances, etc.  Extremely useful and valuable information; wish I'd been at your WPM clinic several years ago.
Thanks, Dave Sieber, Reno NV 

To: bbfcl@...; STMFC@...
From: bbfcl@...
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 20:17:39 +0000
Subject: [bbfcl] General tank car discussion pt 4 (UNCLASSIFIED)
[snip] 
There are also the ARA classes which I left out detailed discussion of, but are important to understand how things were being constructed prior to 1927 (and 1917). Also the so-called "War Emergency" cars of WW2. Are any of you interested by this point?

Elden Gatwood

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE



Re: [bbfcl] General tank car discussion pt 4 (UNCLASSIFIED)

David Sieber
 

Eldon,
     Please, continue with whatever else you have on additional tank car classes.  I - and doubtless others - am saving these to be my one go-to reference on tank car basics.  Although, you can certainly go into as much detail as you wish; e.g., the differences between ICC 103 hazardous vs 203 nonflammable/food grade tank appliances, etc.  Extremely useful and valuable information; wish I'd been at your WPM clinic several years ago.
Thanks, Dave Sieber, Reno NV 

To: bbfcl@...; STMFC@...
From: bbfcl@...
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 20:17:39 +0000
Subject: [bbfcl] General tank car discussion pt 4 (UNCLASSIFIED)
[snip] 
There are also the ARA classes which I left out detailed discussion of, but are important to understand how things were being constructed prior to 1927 (and 1917). Also the so-called "War Emergency" cars of WW2. Are any of you interested by this point?

Elden Gatwood

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: General tank car discussion pt 4 (UNCLASSIFIED)

James E Kubanick
 

Yes, Heinz did roster a few of these car but I don't know how many. When I worked at the Heinz plant in Pittsburgh in the early'60's, they would still occasionally show up there.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV



On Monday, July 6, 2015 4:21 PM, "'Gatwood, Elden SAW' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Groups;

On to the ICC106 to 108:

ICC 106A500 (obsolete 12/19/64), ICC 106A800 (obsolete 12/19/64): Chlorine, Anhydrous Ammonia, Sulfur Dioxide, Hydrogen Sulfide (A800)
Multiple Unit with Removable Steel Forge-Welded Tanks Mounted on Underframe
Each Tank Approximately One Ton Capacity
Each Tank Equipped with Loading and Discharge Valves and Safety Vent or Vent Set for Pressure Not Exceeding 375 psi (500) or 600 psi (800)

Yes, this is that MTS brass flat car with removable tanks. There were not that many of them. I have seen them in Penn Salt, Diamond, and maybe 3 other schemes in photos (Niagara?). I understand many of them were used servicing water treatment plants. Nice car; too bad we have no decals.....

ICC 107A****: Helium, Hydrogen, Oxygen
Multiple Unit Seamless Steel Tanks Mounted on Underframe
Marking **** is Dependent on Test Pressure of Tanks

This is the "Helium" car. There have been several discussions on this on-list.

ICC 108 (obsolete 8/31/56), ICC 108A (obsolete 8/31/56): Hydrochloric Acid, Vinegar
Tank Car Having Wooden Stave Metal-Hooped Tanks
Tanks Must be Interior-Lined, Coated or Treated to Withstand Action of Hydrochloric Acid
Wooden Tanks Must not Have Side or Bottom Openings

And this, then, is the so-called "vinegar" car. Standard brands had some, as well as others; maybe Heinz?. The Sunshine car models this class.

None of these classes were all that numerous, and if you are modeling many locations, you would never have seen them. These may be the ones most of you can avoid.

There are also the ARA classes which I left out detailed discussion of, but are important to understand how things were being constructed prior to 1927 (and 1917). Also the so-called "War Emergency" cars of WW2. Are any of you interested by this point?

Elden Gatwood

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE




General tank car discussion pt 4 (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Groups;

On to the ICC106 to 108:

ICC 106A500 (obsolete 12/19/64), ICC 106A800 (obsolete 12/19/64): Chlorine, Anhydrous Ammonia, Sulfur Dioxide, Hydrogen Sulfide (A800)
Multiple Unit with Removable Steel Forge-Welded Tanks Mounted on Underframe
Each Tank Approximately One Ton Capacity
Each Tank Equipped with Loading and Discharge Valves and Safety Vent or Vent Set for Pressure Not Exceeding 375 psi (500) or 600 psi (800)

Yes, this is that MTS brass flat car with removable tanks. There were not that many of them. I have seen them in Penn Salt, Diamond, and maybe 3 other schemes in photos (Niagara?). I understand many of them were used servicing water treatment plants. Nice car; too bad we have no decals.....

ICC 107A****: Helium, Hydrogen, Oxygen
Multiple Unit Seamless Steel Tanks Mounted on Underframe
Marking **** is Dependent on Test Pressure of Tanks

This is the "Helium" car. There have been several discussions on this on-list.

ICC 108 (obsolete 8/31/56), ICC 108A (obsolete 8/31/56): Hydrochloric Acid, Vinegar
Tank Car Having Wooden Stave Metal-Hooped Tanks
Tanks Must be Interior-Lined, Coated or Treated to Withstand Action of Hydrochloric Acid
Wooden Tanks Must not Have Side or Bottom Openings

And this, then, is the so-called "vinegar" car. Standard brands had some, as well as others; maybe Heinz?. The Sunshine car models this class.

None of these classes were all that numerous, and if you are modeling many locations, you would never have seen them. These may be the ones most of you can avoid.

There are also the ARA classes which I left out detailed discussion of, but are important to understand how things were being constructed prior to 1927 (and 1917). Also the so-called "War Emergency" cars of WW2. Are any of you interested by this point?

Elden Gatwood




Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: RE: General tank car discussion pt 3 (UNCLASSIFIED)

mwbauers
 

In general, this type of information is hard to come by. 

I would like to see pointers to related books or on-line sources for the range of RR cars.

If that doesn’t exist, it’s my hope that this group will compile what appears in the posting as data file saves for easier discovery by modelers that missed the then past posts.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Jul 6, 2015, at 11:17 AM, 'Gatwood, Elden  wrote:

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Mike;

Other cars types, for example being?

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message——
Mike Bauers….
When this series of very informative postings is done, could someone gather them and install them in the group data files?

Is there a publication or website that has this information across other car types?


White Dome Housings on ACF ICC-105A Tank Cars (1947 to early 1950s)

Ed Hawkins
 

Group,
Starting in 1947 and continuing to about 1953, a high percentage of ACF-built large-capacity ICC-105A tank cars (i.e., 10,500 & 11,000 gallons for propane or anhydrous ammonia) had white dome housings on cars otherwise painted black or other colors. This was not found on similar cars built 1946 and before.

Warren (WRNX) cars with green dome housings were exceptions as were a relatively few other cars that received dome housings painted black, aluminum, or other colors. I have not found white dome housings to be used by other tank car builders during this time. Guy Wilbur has researched A.A.R. records and found no requirements for white dome housings.

Does anyone know the significance or reason for the white dome housings?

Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


ADMIN: Re: One could model this car, but

Mikebrock
 

Mike Bauers writes:

"Modeling what had been planned is as fun as modeling what was built."

Perhaps. However, that is not within the objectives of the STMFC. Note the first statement regarding the group's objectives:

"The objectives include the sharing of
information about North American, standard gauge railroad freight cars in
the period 1900-1960 inclusive..." and "Emphasis is to
be placed on the study of the prototype with
a goal of producing models of them with as great a degree of accuracy as
possible."

Note that the objectives include the study and modeling of actual freight cars, real prototypes, not proposed freight cars.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner

57441 - 57460 of 192653