Date   

Re: fleet composition (was Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car)

riverman_vt@...
 

    But which roads in Northern New England, Armand? This could certainly be said for the 
Central Vermont, and there is ample photographic evidence to that effect, but being a CNR
subsidiary how could one expect it to be otherwise? The same could be stated about the
Grand Trunk. I do not believe you could make that statement about the Rutland though it
did carry a few CNR cars, and your statement could not be made about the joint CPR-B&M
line extending south from Newport, VT nor the MEC as its primary Canadian connections 
were all with the CPR. These were in St. Johnsbury, VT,  Mattawumkeag and Vanceboro, 
ME. The MEC connection, indeed trackage rights, over the Grand Trunk from Groveton to
North Stratford, NH rarely provided any interchange with CNR subsidiary Grand Trunk and 
the same must be said about the B&M connection with the Grand Trunk at Groveton, NH.
Thus it would seem that your statement defines interchange traffic between the CNR and 
CV but is limited to that one instance. Is this not correct?

Cordially. Don Valentine




Re: Frt car populations/frt train consists [ warning...long ]

Mikebrock
 

Dave Nelson writes:

"We doing this case again? What, for the 8yh... 10th time."

Why not? The subject is certainly within scope and, every time it is discussed, we get more info.

"IMO it is plausible that the conclusion Mike has drawn about Wyoming is
correct(!) for the simple reason that SP trains terminating at Ogden were
not, in fact, free rolling. As I recall they were required to turn over the
consist to the UP... at least between 1869 and 1947. And seeing that all
thos SP home road cars were required to go in one direction and only one
direction is fair to expect to see more of them in Wyoming... and few east
of that as the UP starts to spead out."

Well, I would agree that more would show up in WY...which is what my Fraley conductor's book shows and, of course, the Big Boy Collection tape with its 36 SP box/auto cars rolling through Speer in one west bound train confirms. However, your "few east of that as the UP starts to spread out" is probably doubtful since lumber loaded cars are headed just about exclusively to Omaha or Council Bluffs [ on the extreme east side of Nebraska ] or KC.

"The would be exceptions f course.. the SP did hand off lumber to the ARio
Grange in Ogden... and almost nothing else... which makes me wonder if
lumber rollers were the exception to the above rule."

Ah ha! See. Still stimulating the little grey cells.


Mike Brock


Re: When were double doors put on 1937 AAR 40' boxcars?

Rufus Cone
 

On 7/25/2015 5:51 PM, bill stanton bill_stanton60@hotmail.com [STMFC] wrote:

the model I'm looking at is 38332 which interestingly is not in the
1949 rwy. equip. register...

The double-door car NP 38332 you ask about is from a series leased from AA Morrison beyond the STMFC period (1962) as shown on the NP Freight Equipment diagram #53. The diagram, linked below, states that those cars were built during 1944 and 1945, but they were not on the NP until the lease date.
http://www.nprha.org/NP%20Box%20Cars/Box%20Cars%2040%20Ft.%20Steel%20Sheathed%2038168-667.jpg

The NP had double-door steel sheathed cars in the 1950s; they were plug+sliding door types, with nominally 6 foot sliding doors. See, for example, diagram #24 for cars built by NP in 1958.
\http://www.nprha.org/NP%20Box%20Cars/Box%20Cars%2040%20Ft.%20Steel%20Sheathed%208000-8449.jpg

and diagram #24A for cars built by NP in 1959
http://www.nprha.org/NP%20Box%20Cars/Box%20Cars%2040%20Ft.%20Steel%20Sheathed%208450-9200.jpg

and diagram #15 for cars built by Pullman Standard starting in 1959
http://www.nprha.org/NP%20Box%20Cars/Box%20Cars%2040%20Ft.%20Steel%20Sheathed%203000-3399.jpg

--
Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT


Re: Frt car populations/frt train consists [ warning...long ]

Dave Nelson
 

We doing this case again? What, for the 8yh... 10th time.

IMO it is plausible that the conclusion Mike has drawn about Wyoming is
correct(!) for the simple reason that SP trains terminating at Ogden were
not, in fact, free rolling. As I recall they were required to turn over the
consist to the UP... at least between 1869 and 1947. And seeing that all
thos SP home road cars were required to go in one direction and only one
direction is fair to expect to see more of them in Wyoming... and few east
of that as the UP starts to spead out.

The would be exceptions f course.. the SP did hand off lumber to the ARio
Grange in Ogden... and almost nothing else... which makes me wonder if
lumber rollers were the exception to the above rule.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 1:51 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Frt car populations/frt train consists [ warning...long ]

Mike Brock has argued that SP should be given special treatment on account
of it being an interchange partner of the UP. If SP is given special
treatment, then so should be the partners on the East End of the
UP: -


Re: Frt car populations/frt train consists [ warning...long ]

Mikebrock
 

Tim O'Connor writes:

"Mike, I think you're overthinking this whole thing. :-) I've seen your layout. A
thing of beauty, but a modest and rather compressed version of the Overland Route
in Wyoming."

Well, first, I definitely did "overthink" frt car/box car population generation when I wrote my comments. To add to that, I'm not governed by the need to simulate with accuracy the movements of the 134,890 cars that operated over Sherman Hill from March 6 through April 22 in '49. In fact, as I have mentioned before, every day on my layout is May 14, 1953 [ I like the movie Ground Hog ]. I tend to try to produce a modeling environment of what COULD have happened rather than what did because, among other things, I don't know exactly what did happen. I do, however, have a pretty good idea of what could have happened...N&W hopper and all.

As far as the layout is concerned, thanks for the compliment and when you wander down here again during Prototype Rails, you can join my op session. BTW, my model of Dale Jct has tracks 1&2 west of the junction turn left and eventually lead into Hermosa Tunnel. I needed this left turn because of layout design requirements. However, after 30 yrs or so of operation, occasionally I'll notice a photo of the prototype scene with tracks 1 & 2 turning right instead of left and think, That's odd. UP got it wrong.

Mike Brock


Re: When were double doors put on 1937 AAR 40' boxcars?

bill stanton
 

the model I'm looking at is 38332 which interestingly is not in the 1949 rwy. equip. register...




From: STMFC@... on behalf of Michael Seitz mikefrommontana@... [STMFC]
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 4:14 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: When were double doors put on 1937 AAR 40' boxcars?
 
 

If I recall correctly the NP didn't have steam era 40 foot double door
steel boxcars in the STMFC time period. Those cars, and the round roof
double door cars, were leased in the 1960's for lumber loading. They
did have an elusive batch of 40 foot double door single sheathed cars
(which were rebuilt into 40 foot Pig Palace stock cars in the 1960's).
Somewhere in my electronic notes, a person posted how they modified the
MDC 50 foot single sheathed double door model into the NP boxcar.

The number series for these cars was 8000 to 8099. These were equipped
with auto loading devices as of the January 1953 ORER.
Another series of cars was 8100 to 8199. These were not equipped with
auto loaders, and a numbers of cars in the series were of varying
dimensions, whether because they were built by multiple builders or
what, is not known to me.

Both series of cars were of 80,000 lbs capacity. If somebody has
pictures of them, I'd be interested in seeing them (or a reference to
them). Neither of these car series should be confused for the
distinctive "War Emergency" 6 post single door boxcars.

Sorry for the long winded response, but anything less on this list begs
for brickbats.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT
__________________________________________________________
Want to place your ad here?
Advertise on United Online
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/55b4188b4821f188a524ast02vuc


Re: When were double doors put on 1937 AAR 40' boxcars?

mikefrommontanan
 

If I recall correctly the NP didn't have steam era 40 foot double door steel boxcars in the STMFC time period. Those cars, and the round roof double door cars, were leased in the 1960's for lumber loading. They did have an elusive batch of 40 foot double door single sheathed cars (which were rebuilt into 40 foot Pig Palace stock cars in the 1960's). Somewhere in my electronic notes, a person posted how they modified the MDC 50 foot single sheathed double door model into the NP boxcar.

The number series for these cars was 8000 to 8099. These were equipped with auto loading devices as of the January 1953 ORER.
Another series of cars was 8100 to 8199. These were not equipped with auto loaders, and a numbers of cars in the series were of varying dimensions, whether because they were built by multiple builders or what, is not known to me.

Both series of cars were of 80,000 lbs capacity. If somebody has pictures of them, I'd be interested in seeing them (or a reference to them). Neither of these car series should be confused for the distinctive "War Emergency" 6 post single door boxcars.

Sorry for the long winded response, but anything less on this list begs for brickbats.

Michael Seitz
Missoula MT
____________________________________________________________
Want to place your ad here?
Advertise on United Online
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/55b4188b4821f188a524ast02vuc


Re: Frt car populations/frt train consists [ warning...long ]

Tim O'Connor
 

SP B-50-18, 1937 AAR box with S-corner ends

SP box car 33764 with a load of meat bound for KC.

Likely canned meat.

Cyril Durrenberger


Re: Frt car populations/frt train consists [ warning...long ]

Cyril Durrenberger
 

SP box car 33764 with a load of meat bound for KC.

Likely canned meat.

Cyril Durrenberger


Re: Frt car populations/frt train consists [ warning...long ]

Cyril Durrenberger
 

Tim,

Do you have a layout? If so, what size, what time period and what railroad?

Cyril Durrenberger

--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 7/25/15, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@comcast.net [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Frt car populations/frt train consists [ warning...long ]
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, July 25, 2015, 4:59 PM




Mike Brock wrote


 > Not so fast. Tim Gilbert wrote: [ warning ... SNIP!
]

Mike, I think you're overthinking this whole thing. :-) I've seen
your layout. A thing of beauty, but a modest and rather compressed version
of the Overland Route in Wyoming. And all of the other high quality layouts
I've seen also simply cannot be totally realistic with respect to fleets and trains and
car distribution.

Ok, with the single exception of Dan Holbrook's layout, by virtue of its being a model
of a major TERMINAL and thanks to Dan's actually knowing virtually everything about
what was really known to be there in 1970 or 1971 (?). Dan doesn't have to worry
about percentages and theories, lucky man!

Tim O'Connor


Re: Frt car populations/frt train consists [ warning...long ]

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike Brock wrote

 > Not so fast. Tim Gilbert wrote: [ warning ... SNIP! ]


Mike, I think you're overthinking this whole thing. :-) I've seen your layout. A
thing of beauty, but a modest and rather compressed version of the Overland Route
in Wyoming. And all of the other high quality layouts I've seen also simply cannot
be totally realistic with respect to fleets and trains and car distribution. Ok,
with the single exception of Dan Holbrook's layout, by virtue of its being a model
of a major TERMINAL and thanks to Dan's actually knowing virtually everything about
what was really known to be there in 1970 or 1971 (?). Dan doesn't have to worry
about percentages and theories, lucky man!

Tim O'Connor


Re: fleet composition (was Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car)

Tim O'Connor
 


Armand

Not surprising since both CN and CP operated in Vermont, and CP operated in New Hampshire and Maine, while
CN subsidiaries CV and GT operated as far as the coasts of Connecticut and Maine. Also large amounts of newsprint
came from Quebec and Ontario to newspapers throughout the region, not to mention Canadian lumber products.

Tim O'Connor


 >
Bruce,The data I have for roads in Northern New England have more CN cars in consists than Pennsy cars.Armand Premo


Re: When were double doors put on 1937 AAR 40' boxcars?

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

 

> Plenty were built new in 1937 and even in 1936, following the new AAR standard,
 > but with double doors. So most if not all of the DD 1937 cars were built that way.
 > Tony Thompson

What was in this "standard", if cars could be built anywhere from 9' 7" IH to 10' 8" IH, with single or
double doors of different widths, with either S-corner or W-corner ends, with various roofs and underframes?

Just wondering.


   The AAR called it a "standard" design, Tim. As I said, some of the cars built even had double doors. It was always true of these designs that scope was offered for variations, such as you describe, but remember, it was a new and improved underframe (minor upgrade from the 1932 ARA frame), as well as connection details among sides, ends, floor and roof. The other stuff, though highly visible to us modelers, was really a matter of size and specialties.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: When were double doors put on 1937 AAR 40' boxcars?

Tim O'Connor
 


Aha! THAT'S what was being asked! Sorry, nevermind. Yes the NP cars
were all post-STMFC rebuilds (ex-DL&W cars rebuilt by A.A. Morrison)

Tim O'Connor




> Does anyone know when railroads (e.g. northern pacific) started
> putting double doors on 1937 AAR 40 foot boxcars (since these
> originally had single doors, right?)?
Go to the equipment pages of the NPRHA website
http://www.nprha.org/Pages/Equipment.aspx

Select freight cars and go to the second page of box car diagrams
(scroll down to the bottom of the first box car page and use the >
symbol to go to diagrams 31-60.

The NP started purchase and building of new plug+sliding door cars in
the late 1950's in response to shipper use of forklifts to handle
lumber.  In its final decade, NP leased rebuilt STMFCs with double
doors, also for that service.  These were rebuilt with a second door by
the lessors.

For their time on the NP roster, the cars about which you asked all fall
into the period beyond 1960;  you can see lease dates on the diagrams.

--
Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT


Re: When were double doors put on 1937 AAR 40' boxcars?

Tim O'Connor
 


 > Plenty were built new in 1937 and even in 1936, following the new AAR standard,
 > but with double doors. So most if not all of the DD 1937 cars were built that way.
 > Tony Thompson

What was in this "standard", if cars could be built anywhere from 9' 7" IH to 10' 8" IH, with single or
double doors of different widths, with either S-corner or W-corner ends, with various roofs and underframes?

Just wondering.

The "classic" 10' 0" IH DD 1937 cars were only built for Soo and SAL -- with different ends.

Tim O'Connor


Frt car populations/frt train consists [ warning...long ]

Mikebrock
 

Tim O'Connor writes:

"Dave Nelson and Tim Gilbert
spent quite a lot of time on BOX CAR distribution research and found that
on almost all class 1 railroads in the STMFC era, the percentages followed
the ORER fleet sizes pretty closely -- excepting home road cars, which are
almost always a higher percentage than their share of the national fleet.
XM box cars in the STMFC era, in other words, were "free roaming" and went
just about anywhere and everywhere."

Not so fast. Tim Gilbert wrote:

"In 1947, the ownership of foreign boxcars aggregated into eight ICC
Geographic Regions correlated pretty well with the percentage those
regions owned of the National Boxcar Fleet. In 1949, that correlation
was blown to hell.

Mike Brock has argued that SP should be given special treatment on
account of it being an interchange partner of the UP. If SP is given
special treatment, then so should be the partners on the East End of the
UP: - the C&NW, MILW and CB&Q. These four roads had 118 of the foreign
boxcars in 1947 (vs. the equivalent of 105 which their percentages of
the national fleet warranted), and 340 of the foreign boxcars (vs. 212
of the percentages)" [ in 1949 ].

The issue, obviously, is can the data from a thirty fourth of the trains
traversing between Laramie and Rawlins on the UP mainline predict the
consist of box cars regarding railroad ownership during the period of
examination? The consist in question would be from a "fleet" perspective.
IOW, the data might predict 34 Mopac box cars during the month and a half of
examination. OK, what about a train? Would the 34 Mopac box cars be
expected to spread themselves so that one would appear in each of the 34
trains. I quick perusal of SP box cars in the 34 trains shows definitely no.

The presence of frt cars in trains moving across Wyoming [ a trunk line ] seems from the available data to be to a great extent driven by the type of cargo being carried and by the tendency to group by such cargo. This grouping seems to generate trains of frt cars, at times, with a common cargo and common car type and even railroad type...hence: lumber, oil, stock, coal, ore etc. In order to model these types of trains, with the necessary compression due to layout size, which necessarily contain more cars of a specific railroad [ for example, SP in the UP Wyoming case ] than the national per cent might call for appears to require the modeler to maintain significantly larger populations of such frt cars than the national per cent. OTOH, the modeler would need to develop some technique to guard against spreading cars from the larger population evenly throughout the modeled frt trains.

To add to these points, I will resend a message I sent to the
group a yr or so ago:

Both Tim Gilbert and Dave Nelson have contributed mightily in providing
needed enlightenment regarding freight car populations...particularly
with respect to much traveled box cars. What follows is in no way meant to
subtract from their very useful efforts. Rather, it is an attempt to
present information that seems to demonstrate that the modeler wishing to
simulate the traffic population of box cars in trains using a relatively much
smaller fleet of cars than that producing the overall population may need to
accumulate box cars disproportionate to the number expected in
population analysis. We all know, that due to various reasons,
individual frt train content varied from train to train. The trouble is,
the variance, in some cases, was extreme...at least on the UP in central
Wyoming.

Here is an analysis from my Fraley Conductor's Book showing how SP box
car populations varied over 34 trains. Oddly, the results match what is seen
on the Pentrex video tape...The Big Boy Collection....although that is no
doubt mere luck.

1. 34 frt trains were composed of 2787 cars of all types and all RRs.
2. The average train length was 81.97 cars.
3. There were 136 SP box cars in the trains which is 4.9% of the total
cars.
4. There is an average of 4 SP box cars per train.

OK...that was easy enough. Uh oh....

5. There were 15 trains with one or less SP box cars. In fact, 9 had
none at all.

6. Two trains had a total of 42.3% of the SP box cars...27 + 31 cars. Two
others had 9 each. Thus 4 trains had 76 cars or 55.8%. 29 trains had 5
or less SP box cars.

The reasons for the deviation from the common 5 or less cars is possibly
driven by source, destination and commodity.
Each of the trains with the high number of SP box cars
were east bounds with primarily lumber loads. Train #6 had 22 loads of
lumber of the 27 SP box cars. Train #28 had 26 loads of lumber in its 31
cars. Destination is also interesting. Of the lumber loads in train #6,
all went to O [ or o ] or KC. Of the lumber loads in train #28, all but 3 of
the 27 went to O [ or o] or KC. All 9 of the SP box cars in train #23 were
MT.I expected to see a larger number of MT SP box cars in a train...as I believe is seen on the Big Boy tape. Three trains having a combined total of one SP box car appears to
have originated in the northwest, they having a large number of apples and
spuds in the consist.

Of course the Fraley book contains a realtively small sample of data.
During the fall of 1948...6 months prior to the Fraley data...UP averaged about
26 frt trains per day through the Altamont Tunnel between Green River and
Evanston. This does not include the Granger cutoff traffic through
Montpelier which in 1956 averaged about 12 trains per day. One can
probably be fairly safe in assuming about 35 frt trains per day through the Green
River-Laramie area. Thus, our sample is 1/35th of the approximate number
of trains IF Fraley worked every day...which he did not. He actually worked
only 72% of the days. In all, using the average number of cars for the
trains he did work, about 134,890 cars went through Laramie during the
time in question. We have the data for 2787.

So, are the high number of SP box cars in trains #6 and #28 an
aberration?

Since the Big Boy tape shows a similar train, I think not. So, does the
modeler use the Fraley data and wait until 17 frt trains operate and
throw one in with say, 45% of the train being SP box cars? Perhaps other
Fraley books will reveal other trains with high SP box car numbers.
Incidentally, I saw no other road so well represented except, of course, UP. I'll, take
a look at NYC, Pennsy, C&NW and Q later. It is interesting to see a block
of 9 MT cars with the name "RD" headed west. My guess is Santa Fe reefers.
Other SP cars of note in the Fraley book: 9 flat cars with loads of
rail, vehicles [ eastbound? ], tractors, trucks [ eastbound? ], and board. 5
gondolas with rail [ westbound ], and tank car 58403 with some kind of
oil. One curiosity is SP box car 33764 with a load of meat bound for KC.

Finally, the UP Perishable and Manifest schedule contains a list of
destination codes. Fraley seems to have added his own...possibly those
informally in use at the time. Hence, he opts to use the mile marker for
a city one time [ 510 for Cheyenne ], the actual name another. A frequent
destination is O or o. This could be for Omaha but, given the large
number of entries, I opt for mile marker 0.0...Council Bluffs...it being the
end of UP tracks eastbound.

To summarize, UP frt train consists in Wyoming appear to have varied
quite a bit with respect to SP box cars...to the extreme compared to their usual
populations. This is possibly due to the rather unique relation with SP,
it being UP's major connection to central Cal. We know that SP generated
Overland Route trains tended to stay intact since their car's destinations were either large
metroploitan areas [ KC ] on the UP or they were headed east of UP
tracks. How this is similar to other RRs is dependent on many other factors. My
unknowing guess is that UP was rather unique in it being a trunk line
with adjoining SP and C&NW. IOW, Santa Fe, also with a trunk line, doesn't
seem to have a partner like SP. SP, itself, may have had a smaller
relationship with SSW.


Mike Brock


Re: fleet composition (was Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car)

Armand Premo
 

Bruce,The data I have for roads in Northern New England have more CN cars in consists than Pennsy cars.Armand Premo 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 4:31 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: fleet composition (was Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car)

 

Armand,

Canadian cars were specifically excluded from the analysis because they are NOT free rollers.  Because of customs rules, they have to be specifically carrying cargo to the US.  Once here, they had to be routed back to Canada.  Canadian cars did certainly occasionally get grabbed for moves inside the USA, but it was pretty rare.  Canadian boxcars could certainly be seen anywhere in the USA, but there had better be a good reason. 

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 5:13 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: fleet composition (was Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car)



    I don't believe the study included Canadian cars which would really impact especially northern tier road consists.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 5:18 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: fleet composition (was Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car)

 


 > I must agree with Dan Holbrook’s comment about people using percentages
 > of car types for anything.
 > Ike

Ike

I don't think that's exactly what Dan meant. Dave Nelson and Tim Gilbert
spent quite a lot of time on BOX CAR distribution research and found that
on almost all class 1 railroads in the STMFC era, the percentages followed
the ORER fleet sizes pretty closely -- excepting home road cars, which are
almost always a higher percentage than their share of the national fleet.
XM box cars in the STMFC era, in other words, were "free roaming" and went
just about anywhere and everywhere.

For other car types, it's a much different story. We've been over this ground
many times. I've got over 100 saved emails from Tim Gilbert on this subject
alone.

Tim O'Connor

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Re: fleet composition (was Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car)

Pierre Oliver
 

Bruce,
In the post war era, the US roads were notorious for being tardy in returning Canadian cars. Usually because they were in better shape. There's lots of letters in the archives of CN and CP pleading for their cars back

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com


Re: fleet composition (was Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car)

Bruce Smith
 

Armand,

Canadian cars were specifically excluded from the analysis because they are NOT free rollers.  Because of customs rules, they have to be specifically carrying cargo to the US.  Once here, they had to be routed back to Canada.  Canadian cars did certainly occasionally get grabbed for moves inside the USA, but it was pretty rare.  Canadian boxcars could certainly be seen anywhere in the USA, but there had better be a good reason. 

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... [STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 5:13 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: fleet composition (was Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car)



    I don't believe the study included Canadian cars which would really impact especially northern tier road consists.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 5:18 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: fleet composition (was Kadee ACF 11,000 Gallon Insulated Tank Car)

 


 > I must agree with Dan Holbrook’s comment about people using percentages
 > of car types for anything.
 > Ike

Ike

I don't think that's exactly what Dan meant. Dave Nelson and Tim Gilbert
spent quite a lot of time on BOX CAR distribution research and found that
on almost all class 1 railroads in the STMFC era, the percentages followed
the ORER fleet sizes pretty closely -- excepting home road cars, which are
almost always a higher percentage than their share of the national fleet.
XM box cars in the STMFC era, in other words, were "free roaming" and went
just about anywhere and everywhere.

For other car types, it's a much different story. We've been over this ground
many times. I've got over 100 saved emails from Tim Gilbert on this subject
alone.

Tim O'Connor

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4821 / Virus Database: 4365/10299 - Release Date: 07/24/15




Re: When were double doors put on 1937 AAR 40' boxcars?

Rufus Cone
 

Does anyone know when railroads (e.g. northern pacific) started putting double doors on 1937 AAR 40 foot boxcars (since these originally had single doors, right?)?
Go to the equipment pages of the NPRHA website
http://www.nprha.org/Pages/Equipment.aspx

Select freight cars and go to the second page of box car diagrams (scroll down to the bottom of the first box car page and use the > symbol to go to diagrams 31-60.

The NP started purchase and building of new plug+sliding door cars in the late 1950's in response to shipper use of forklifts to handle lumber. In its final decade, NP leased rebuilt STMFCs with double doors, also for that service. These were rebuilt with a second door by the lessors.

For their time on the NP roster, the cars about which you asked all fall into the period beyond 1960; you can see lease dates on the diagrams.

--
Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT

56821 - 56840 of 192655