Date   

Re: fleet composition

caboose9792@...
 

Even if Westvaco chemical and Westvaco paper were separate companies, being complementary industries why couldn't or wouldn't they do business? Caustic soda and chlorine just happen to be used in the manufacture of paper and pulp processing. Reportedly the largest user of caustic Soda  is the paper industry.  I guess this is getting into the operating side of things rather than STNFC but Mr. Brock's annalists is plausible. I suspect there is more to the "tale of to Westvaco" but that most likely fails outside of this group's speciality.
 
Mark "I need a vacation" Rickert 
 

In a message dated 7/27/2015 2:41:17 P.M. Central Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
There were, however, two [ at least ] Westvaco companies. As Jeff says, FMC
[ a Missouri Corp ] acquired Westvaco Chemical Corp. (chlorine and caustic
soda used to produce organic insecticides and pesticides) in 1946. This
Westvaco apparently leased the SHPX covered hoppers. To confuse the
situation somewhat, another Westvaco (originally the Piedmont Pulp and
Paper Company and then The West Virginia Pulp and Paper Company), and then
Westvaco operated an extensive paper [ boxes, etc. ] oriented business and
still does as MeadWestvaco. As far as I am aware, this Westvaco leased no
covered hoppers from SHPX. One has to wonder how many lawyers each Westvaco
kept on staff.


Re: fleet composition

Mikebrock
 

Tim O'Connor writes:

"I REALLY think this whole issue can be greatly simplified for most layouts."

Tim goes on to explain that even with relatively small numbers of cars in a fleet, if a smaller number is used to genrate a train, the odds strongly argue that the train's consist will be different...even for the same kind of train [ example, stock train ]. No arguement on that. However, my analysis of my Fraley was to determine the % of the total number of trains [ 34 ] that would be considered a particular type of train. I was not trying to make such trains unique. IOW, I now know that there were about 6 "types" of trains that could be identified by the car's consists. Their presence in the 34 trains of the Fraley are as follows:

1. Lumber: 9 trains, 26.4%
2. Reefer loaded: 4, 11.7%
3. Reefer MT: 3: 8.8%
4. Stock: 3: 8.8%
5. MT coal: 3: 8.8%
6. MT tank: 2: 5.8%
7. Other: 8: 23.5%

Unfortunately [ I think ] I can't populate my layout with 34 trains. In fact, I am confined to 8 frt trains unless I use infinite staging or reduce the number of passenger trains to less than 5. The only time I tried infinite staging we had several dispatchers screaming...

Anyhow, if I confine to 8 trains, I end up with 2 lumber trains, 2 reefer trains, one combined stock/MT coal, one combined MT tank/MT other, and 2 other. I can add 2 more trains through Buford staging...probably one other and one MT other.

Mike Brock


Re: fleet composition

Mikebrock
 

Dennis Storzek says:

"Not odd at all. The brakemen worked directly for the conductor, so if there were any problems, or time slips, he was going to hear about it.

He wanted to remember the engineer to make sure the BLE wasn't getting the engineer a better deal than the ORC was getting him :-) Also if any issues came up later about rules violations or train performance problems, he needed to know who was running. The fireman was out of his "sphere of influence", and was basically the engineer's problem."

Not bad. Fraley typically had 2 brakemen...usually Newman and Meyer. He only missed indicating the engineer on 2 of the 34 trains.

Mike Brock
Dennis Storzek


Re: Transporting Anhydrous Ammonia

Cyril Durrenberger
 

Tim and others,

LPG is actually a mixture of butane and propane and other hydrocarbons. I suggest that you look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane to get some information on propane and the similar ones for LPG and butane.

Propane has been used for many years (since the 1920's) and I will not repeat what is in the article above. Until the middle 1920's natural gas that was often released when crude oil was produced was flared as a waste product. At that time techniques were developed to capture the natural gas and then use it as a fuel. When that happened many plants, especially near the oil production areas, changed from using coal or lignite to natural gas. In Texas that conversion killed the lignite and soft coal mining in a very short time.

Normally, natural gas at the well is a mixture of methane, ethane, butane, propane, H2S, CO2, water and other compounds. The exact amount is a function of where the gas is produced. The water and acid gas (H2S and CO2) are removed early in the are removed early in the process. Then the butane and propane are removed as they can be sold for more money than the methane and ethane. Once this treating is completed, then the methane and ethane are sent to a pipeline for delivery to customers. This mixture has no odor. The natural gas odor is actually an organic sulfur compound that is added prior to delivery to residential customers so its presence can be identified by smell.

Butane and propane can sometimes be found in gasoline and other refined products.

So the shipment of LPG has been around for some time.

Likely more than anyone on the list cares to know. Let me know off list if you are interested in the natural gas processing and I can provide some references.

Cyril Durrenberger
--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 7/27/15, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Transporting Anhydrous Ammonia
To: STMFC@...
Date: Monday, July 27, 2015, 5:21 PM


 























 



Where would a
Tidewater LPG car have been used? Tidewater was an east
coast company, yes?

Did LPG travel very long distances? I had the impression
that LPG was a by-product of refining

that was mostly "flared off" until a market
developed for it -- So it would be available

from any petroleum refinery in the STMFC era right?

     Tidewater Associated had east
coast facilities (reporting marks TWOX), Oklahoma facilities
(mark TIDX) and West Coast facilities (mark AOX, for the
Associated part of the name). All indications I have seen
are that the fleet was freely mixed, but each facility
naturally rostered cars of most use to its
needs.    Having found incomplete and/or
inaccurate histories of the Tidewater Associated company in
print and on the web, I set about to research it, and have
posted a summary on my blog (link below, if you're
interested; that post also contains a link to an even longer
history I wrote). I also corrected the Wikipedia and other
web sources, so today the web sources are mostly better.

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2013/12/associated-oil-company-background.html

Tony
Thompson             Editor, Signature Press,
Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA
94705         www.signaturepress.com(510) 540-6538; fax, (510)
540-1937; e-mail, tony@... of books on railroad
history















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Re: SOO 136000

mopacfirst
 

Oh boy.

I was going to ask about the doors, only to see whether Soo was commonly lowering the tackboards after 1954.

I answered that question by hitting a relatively small number of Soo XM photos online, and the answer seems to be, it depends.  Looks like some cars even had the end tackboards lowered while the door ones stayed right where they were.

So are the doors anything but the standard Youngstown of the era?

And I gather that the answer on the roof is that the resin part is indeed the right one.  I have used several of his roofs, just don't have that one.

BTW I decided I needed to buy the book, if I was going to ask so many questions.

Not STMFC note -- my grandmother and two sisters left Cadott, Wisconsin on their one-way journey to Colorado in 1910 on the Soo.


Re: Measure twice...

Craig Zeni
 

On Jul 27, 2015, at 4:26 PM, STMFC@... wrote:

2b. Re: Measure twice...
Posted by: "Eric Hansmann" eric@... wvrail
Date: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:51 am ((PDT))

Craig,

There are a number of kit extras on the website through this link.
http://resincarworks.com/extras/extras_acidtanks.htm

Check out the photos for the kit instructions link on that page. All those
images can be reviewed in a larger size when you click on them.

I hope those help.
They do help...and weren't there when I first looked back in, um, April. They're exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks!



Craig Zeni
Cary NC


Re: Transporting Anhydrous Ammonia

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

 

Where would a Tidewater LPG car have been used? Tidewater was an east coast company, yes?
Did LPG travel very long distances? I had the impression that LPG was a by-product of refining
that was mostly "flared off" until a market developed for it -- So it would be available
from any petroleum refinery in the STMFC era right?


     Tidewater Associated had east coast facilities (reporting marks TWOX), Oklahoma facilities (mark TIDX) and West Coast facilities (mark AOX, for the Associated part of the name). All indications I have seen are that the fleet was freely mixed, but each facility naturally rostered cars of most use to its needs.
    Having found incomplete and/or inaccurate histories of the Tidewater Associated company in print and on the web, I set about to research it, and have posted a summary on my blog (link below, if you're interested; that post also contains a link to an even longer history I wrote). I also corrected the Wikipedia and other web sources, so today the web sources are mostly better.

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2013/12/associated-oil-company-background.html

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Poultry Car Colors?

frograbbit602
 

I built an Ambroid combination refrigerator and poultry car for in Feb. of this year. Ambroid instruction sheet said white sides and dark green for Poultry Transit Company. I have just completed a Ye Old Puff & Huff Main Line Models Division poultry car ( purchased recently on EBay) which is a poultry car, that is, coops on both ends; however, easily converted to a combination as the Ambroid kit by adding sheeting to sides on one side of center attendant compartment. Paint colors in instruction sheet: Stentz Palace Poultry - coach green ends and roof and sides white, National Poultry - box car red roof and ends, Mudd - black roof and ends, and Leghorns LPTX - box car red roof and caboose red ends. All cars black underbody.
Lester Breuer


Re: fleet composition

Tim O'Connor
 

I could identify any of the Conrail manifests that ran on the Boston & Albany
in the 1990's just by the cars on the trains. I'd think that was true of many
manifests in the STMFC era.

Tim O'Connor

In fact, even some professional model railroaders can identify a train by
its consist which is useful since Fraley [ at least ] did not identify a
single train in his conductor's book...although he didn't hesitate to name
the engineer and brakeman but not the fireman [ odd ].
=============

Not odd at all. The brakemen worked directly for the conductor, so if there were any problems, or time slips, he was going to hear about it.

He wanted to remember the engineer to make sure the BLE wasn't getting the engineer a better deal than the ORC was getting him :-) Also if any issues came up later about rules violations or train performance problems, he needed to know who was running. The fireman was out of his "sphere of influence", and was basically the engineer's problem.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Transporting Anhydrous Ammonia

Tim O'Connor
 

the car itself is a marvelous model, up to what we have come to expect from Kadee.

Where would a Tidewater LPG car have been used? Tidewater was an east coast company, yes?
Did LPG travel very long distances? I had the impression that LPG was a by-product of refining
that was mostly "flared off" until a market developed for it -- So it would be available
from any petroleum refinery in the STMFC era right?

Tim O'Connor


Re: fleet composition

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <brockm@...> wrote :

In fact, even some professional model railroaders can identify a train by
its consist which is useful since Fraley [ at least ] did not identify a
single train in his conductor's book...although he didn't hesitate to name
the engineer and brakeman but not the fireman [ odd ].
=============

Not odd at all. The brakemen worked directly for the conductor, so if there were any problems, or time slips, he was going to hear about it. 

He wanted to remember the engineer to make sure the BLE wasn't getting the engineer a better deal than the ORC was getting him :-) Also if any issues came up later about rules violations or train performance problems, he needed to know who was running. The fireman was out of his "sphere of influence", and was basically the engineer's problem.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Transporting Anhydrous Ammonia

James E Kubanick
 

Bill,

both placards I mentioned have a large red "Dangerous" across the face with the specific cargo listed in smaller black letters. The adhesive backed sheet contains 6 of each placard and are beautifully printed. Needless to say, the car itself is a marvelous model, up to what we have come to expect from Kadee.

Jim



On Sunday, July 26, 2015 8:02 PM, "fgexbill@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Thanks Jim. I will need the full dome platform for my car. The Atlas car has two screws to attach the underframe to the tank. Initially I thought I should use an "Inflammable" Placard but in reading about anhydrous ammonia I think I should use either "Dangerous" or "Corrosive Liquid." What does Kadee have?

Bill Welch



Re: fleet composition

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike

I REALLY think this whole issue can be greatly simplified for most layouts.

Let's assume you use good "switchlist" software to generate train switchlists
and random car assignments [aka waybills] (following your realistically programmed
car assignment criteria).

Now let's take one example -- A daily heavy freight that primarily carries
mineral products in covered hoppers, originating at say, Green River WY.

Now suppose you own 30 model cars for this service, and your operating rules
allow a train length of 25 cars. Ask a simple question:

HOW MANY DIFFERENT TRAINS OF 25 CARS CAN BE CREATED FROM A SET OF 30 CARS?

Well, it turns out, a LOT. In fact, you can create 142,506 different combinations
of freight cars from this set of 30 cars, chosen 25 at a time !!!

You can do this calculation for any train, or mix of trains, or mix of cars
that you wish. This is the famous "M out of N" combinatorial math formula. If
you had more cars (100) and a shorter train (20) you can be sure that you will
never, ever, ever have the same set of cars in the train, no matter how many
times you run that train, over a period of more than 10,000 years. :-)

Here's the calculator -- have fun!

http://www.numberempire.com/combinatorialcalculator.php

Tim O'Connor

P.S. If you play bridge (13 cards out of 52), the calculation shows there are over
600 BILLION possible hands. I guess that's why people find cards so interesting!


Westvaco was Re: RE: fleet composition

SUVCWORR@...
 




-----Original Message-----
From: 'Mike Brock' brockm@...
Jeff Aley notes:

"It was the same WestVaCo, eventually sold to Food Machinery
Corp (FMC)."

There were, however, two [ at least ] Westvaco companies. As
Jeff says, FMC 
[ a Missouri Corp ] acquired Westvaco Chemical Corp. (chlorine
and caustic 
soda used to produce organic insecticides and pesticides) in 1946.
This 
Westvaco apparently leased the SHPX covered hoppers. To confuse the

situation somewhat, another Westvaco  (originally the Piedmont Pulp and

Paper Company and then The West Virginia Pulp and Paper Company), and then

Westvaco operated an extensive paper [ boxes, etc. ] oriented business and

still does as MeadWestvaco. As far as I am aware, this Westvaco leased no

covered hoppers from SHPX. One has to wonder how many lawyers each Westvaco

kept on staff.

  

Westvaco Chemical Corporation rostered 13
tank cars with the reporting marks WVCX
 in 1950.

50 and 51 were for storage only and not to be used in interchange. These were ARA III and ARAII respectively
52 - 54 ARA III assigned to Westvaco Chemical Corproation Carleret, NJ
811 - 815 ICC 105A for chlorine to 60,000 lbs
816 - 817 ICC 105A for chlorine to 32,000 lbs
818 ICC106A
811 - 818 assigned to South Charleston, WV
which were assigned to its Charleston WV facility.

There were 6 companies using the name Westvaco Chemical Corporations. see http://www.bizapedia.com/us/WESTVACO-CHEMICAL-CORPORATION.html

Rich Orr


Poultry Car Colors?

thecitrusbelt@...
 

John Swanson posted this on the Railway Bull Shippers Group (https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Railway_Bull_Shippers_Group/info).

 

Does anyone have an answer to the colors question?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

 

If you can find one, Ambroid used to make a Poultry Car kit and a second Kit for a "Half &" car. Half refrigerator and half live poultry.

 

I found one and then used the plans to scratch build several. Make the basic car body (roof, floor, end blocks). Then make the bracing out of Evergreen styrene strip. I used Ambroid styrene tube cement which is a styrene polymer(?) that sets up to be just like styrene and a VERY effective styrene/wood glue).

 

Then I cut and made the screen sides with Tulle. Be careful when using liquid cement to attach the Tulle to the styrene strip, if not the liquid cement will wick the melted styrene into the Tulle and make a blob joint. (Found this out the hard way.).

 

It seems that cars were painted white with green roofs and ends, yellow bodies and ?????   Anybody have any further info on the car colors?

 

Art Griffin has decals for Poultry cars, and a lot of other very good decals.

 

The Home to Roost article is very informative and a very good read. It tells of attendants who were in wrecks and dug their way out of the wrecked car through chicken droppings

 

John  Swanson


Re: fleet composition

Mikebrock
 

Jeff Aley notes:

"It was the same WestVaCo, eventually sold to Food Machinery Corp (FMC)."

There were, however, two [ at least ] Westvaco companies. As Jeff says, FMC [ a Missouri Corp ] acquired Westvaco Chemical Corp. (chlorine and caustic soda used to produce organic insecticides and pesticides) in 1946. This Westvaco apparently leased the SHPX covered hoppers. To confuse the situation somewhat, another Westvaco (originally the Piedmont Pulp and Paper Company and then The West Virginia Pulp and Paper Company), and then Westvaco operated an extensive paper [ boxes, etc. ] oriented business and still does as MeadWestvaco. As far as I am aware, this Westvaco leased no covered hoppers from SHPX. One has to wonder how many lawyers each Westvaco kept on staff.

"With regard to the overall fleet composition, one must be careful when analyzing data for the UP (and, I presume, other RR’s as well). Not all trains looked the same. In fact, I believe many professional railroaders could often identify a train by its consist, because the car types were similar on a day-to-day basis."

In fact, even some professional model railroaders can identify a train by its consist which is useful since Fraley [ at least ] did not identify a single train in his conductor's book...although he didn't hesitate to name the engineer and brakeman but not the fireman [ odd ]. Fortunately, he did list the locomotive.

"The UP obviously operated “Fruit Trains” that were dominated by reefers (mostly, but not exclusively PFE)."

Yes, but I prefer the term "reefer train" because, as Fraley shows, by far the majority of reefers were carrying spuds. Of course, commodities like fruit and spuds were seasonal.

"In addition, we can learn from Mark Amfahr’s excellent articles in The Streamliner that they operated merchandise trains (almost entirely loaded box cars for the freight houses), lumber extras (many double-door box cars), and drag freights (mostly empties, plus low-value loads such as soda ash, sand, gravel, and coal).
Given that the trains were different, and given that we usually only have data for a SAMPLE of the trains, a statistician can see that our data might be highly biased."

For sure. Using the criteria that if about a half of a train carried a specific item [ like spuds or coal or lumber ], here's how 34 trains might be labeled in March/April '49:

1. Lumber-9
2. Spuds/apples-4
3. Cattle/sheep- 3
4. MT [ PFE ]-3
5.MT coal-3
6.Gas-1
7.Ore-1
8.MT-tank-2

That is 26 of the 34 trains in the book. The other 8 might be described as carrying "stuff".

"Oh, and it gets worse. The UP would also re-arrange the trains based on tonnage. So they might combine all of a fruit train with the first quarter of a merchandise train to fill out the tonnage, and then send it out. This has the effect of convoluting the data even further, but doesn’t mix the cars up “enough” to make each train “random”.

As Jack Nicklaus said, "Nobody said it had to be fair".

"This is not to say that we should ignore data completely and just do whatever we like. I’m am simply saying (as others have before) that we must be cautious when we draw conclusions from the data."

Particularly since we have so little of it.

Mike Brock


Re: fleet composition

Tony Thompson
 

Allen Montgomery wrote (in part):

 

SP and PFE cars moving west are mt's scattered throughout the train.

     Small comment: UP pulled many westward PFE empties from trains at North Platte, where PFE had a cleanout facility, and trash inside the cars, as well as remnant ice in bunkers or interior, was cleaned out. I would think that these cleaned PFE cars would tend to show in bunches in trains leaving North Platte westward. But in heavy harvest season, North Platte would get overloaded, and then overflow PFE cars were moved onward to Nampa and Pocatello for cleaning and inspection for repair.
     Your other "rules" sound reasonable, as long as not slavishly adhered to.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: fleet composition

Allen Montgomery
 

Here at the Wyoming Division Historical Society, I have spent the last three years getting a feel for what the freight trains looked like on the UP. This is a summary of the way our trains look. 
Competing, parallel bridge route r.r. cars are seen moving west (empty) at the rear of the train.
East coast cars moving west are loads usually on the front end. 
East coast cars moving east are loads, seen throughout the train.
SP cars moving east (75% from Oakland,25% from LA). I have noticed in photos that they can be clumped into groups. As the SP wanted to use the Modoc line out of Oregon, most of the lumber off the SP still went to Ogden as opposed to the OSL coming into Granger.
SP and PFE cars moving west are mt's scattered throughout the train.
The Idaho division generated the greatest amount of tonnage on the UP system, so trains on and off the OSL have the largest amount of home road cars on the layout.
Unless they are loaded with manufactured goods, all flats and gons headed west are empty.
After that, anything is possible. We have operators that have been briefed on these generalities, who put together trains during the session, and I get a kick out of being able to identify a train based on the consist.
Of course, there are more 'rules' than this, but I write this as a way to highlight the ideas of this conversation. Please feel free to give me feed back.
Allen Montgomery





On Monday, July 27, 2015 9:36 AM, "'Aley, Jeff A' Jeff.A.Aley@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 
Scott & Mike,
 
               It was the same WestVaCo, eventually sold to Food Machinery Corp (FMC).
               The 1,958 cu-ft LO’s from Wyoming were carrying soda ash and were being shipped east.  A significant number of them went to the Westvaco (FMC) phosphate plant in Lawrence, KS on the UP.
 
With regard to the overall fleet composition, one must be careful when analyzing data for the UP (and, I presume, other RR’s as well).  Not all trains looked the same.  In fact, I believe many professional railroaders could often identify a train by its consist, because the car types were similar on a day-to-day basis.  The UP obviously operated “Fruit Trains” that were dominated by reefers (mostly, but not exclusively PFE).  In addition, we can learn from Mark Amfahr’s excellent articles in The Streamliner that they operated merchandise trains (almost entirely loaded box cars for the freight houses), lumber extras (many double-door box cars), and drag freights (mostly empties, plus low-value loads such as soda ash, sand, gravel, and coal).
Given that the trains were different, and given that we usually only have data for a SAMPLE of the trains, a statistician can see that our data might be highly biased.
 
Oh, and it gets worse.  The UP would also re-arrange the trains based on tonnage.  So they might combine all of a fruit train with the first quarter of a merchandise train to fill out the tonnage, and then send it out.  This has the effect of convoluting the data even further, but doesn’t mix the cars up “enough” to make each train “random”.
 
This is not to say that we should ignore data completely and just do whatever we like.  I’m am simply saying (as others have before) that we must be cautious when we draw conclusions from the data.
 
Regards,
 
-Jeff
 
 
 
 
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 12:26 AM
To: Steam Era Freight Cars
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: fleet composition
 
 
Mike,
two points of contention, not specifically related to your argument.
 
1- I thought a previous post established that Westvaco (Wyoming), and Westvaco (West Virginia) were two separate companies, and,
 
2_ Does winter in Laramie really last 9 months? :)
 
 
Scott Haycock
 

 

Tim O'Connor says:

"To me those high ATSF and MILW numbers reveal a traffic artifact -- In
other words,
there was probably some identifiable cause (like someone buying large
quantities of
grain from Topeka KS, or whatever). In fact, ATSF-MILW-NP-CNW are all
strongly
associated with grain, MILW-NP are also strongly associated with lumber, and
CNW
strongly associated with paper too."

But, do we really care why ATSF and MILW show up more often than expected?
By the same token, do we care what unusual event occurred causing 36 SP box
cars to find a home in a WB UP frt on Sherman Hill in '53? I mean, maybe the
SP yard master in Ogden was told to assemble a train of SP box cars for a
publicity photo or perhaps an earthquake derailed a large number of SP box
cars in Sacramento and SP wanted their cars from points east of SLC. Perhaps
the objective is to develop "drivers"...or predictors and many seem to be
seeking that. OTOH, I have to say that I don't care why frt car traffic
produced such and such cars at such and such places. I might be surprised at
the consist of some trains but, again, if all I'm trying to do is provide a
simulation of frt car activity at a specific time...I'll go with what I know
for sure happened rather than what should have happened [ or what should not
have happened ].

For example, Westvaco leased 5 LO's from SHPX for their Chlorine Div, cars
25390-25394. Westvaco apparently had sites in various locals...including
West Va and, surprise!, Wyoming. In fact the WY location was known
as...surprise again!...Westvaco. Westvaco also leased 20 cars from SHPX for
their chemical Div. Of these, cars 25495 to 25500 were assigned to the WY
site. The book Big Boy Collection has photos of Laramie showing several of
the Westvaco cars but I am unable to determine the car numbers although one
chemical car can be seen. I believe there is a better photo spread on these
cars at Laramie but I have not found it...yet. Nooooo problem. I have 3 of
the Bowser 1958 Westvaco LO's numbered 25392-25394. Westvaco had 5 of these
cars in their Chlorine Div and I have 3 of them. Now let's see. The photo
was apparently taken in 1956, 3 yrs into the future. Hmmm. Oh well, what's
three yrs? So, assuming my '49 Fraley's car count for 34 trains and the '49
traffic of 35 trains per day still holds in '56, and we project the '49 data
to 1956, we have 134,890 cars passing through Laramie and at least 7 or so
are Westvaco's. But which...chlorine or chemical? If 3 of the cars were
chlorine, I have them covered. Mind you, however, every day is May 14 so it
isn't as if I'm having the 3 cars appear every day in the summer/spring of
1953. Can't be winter [ which is Sep 1 through June1 ], the photo backdrops
were shot in a very wet and green June.

If the Fraley '49 data works for '53 [ traffic wise ], we can expect 35
trains to roll through on May 14. That's a mere 2870 cars. Hmmm. If 3 were
Westvaco's that means .001% of the cars are Westvaco's. Given that I am
using about 300 frt cars and only 8 trains, I should use about 0.3 of a
Westvaco car IF the .001% were even remotely correct. Given that UP ran
134890 cars through Laramie during the approximate month and a half and UP,
itself owned about 50,000 cars, I kind of doubt that 135 Westvaco's would
show up. I mean...where are these damned things coming from?

So, probably I should use about one Westvaco bolt.

The photo spread shows another interesting car. Yep, a CN box car. Now
then...

Mike Brock
 



Re: Transporting Anhydrous Ammonia

SamClarke
 

Hello Jim and group,
 
There's been quite a thread about our new tank car and some are keeping in line with the subject and others have gone off in another direction.
 
Jim has asked how to pick our tank car up and we just posted some how to pick up our tank car on our web site on the tank car page. It's a matter of placing your thumb and fingers at the ends of the tank just at the top edges where nothing is at risk. However, as mentioned, the parts are made of engineering plastic (Celcon) and are really robust but can get tweaked if mishandled.
 
Also, there are the "correct" placard stickers included for the optional loads. 
 

Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products

Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Transporting Anhydrous Ammonia

 

Bill,

My order for a Kadee tank car arrived yesterday and, yes, it looks as though the platforms can be applied to an Atlas tank with minimum difficulty. The Kadee platforms have two legs that press fit into holes in the upper tank body. The platform ladders are part of the platform casting, so there is a detail bonus there. The underframe is fastened to the tank with a screw at the car center and, possibly, also with the two coupler box screws and/or kingpin screws. I can't speak for how well the frame will mate with the Atlas tank, as I do not have an Atlas car handy to review..Based on this cursory inspection, I would guess that your conversion is do-able, but the Kadee car is quite delicate and I don't want to try to disassemble any more of it. It's hard to find a safe way to even pick it up!

Engineering plastics are used for the parts, however, and the car not really fragile-just tricky to handle for fear of bending something out of place.

Also, the Kadee car does come with peel-and-stick placards for anhydrous ammonia and propane cargoes.

Be sure to let us know how the kit bash turns out.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV





On Sunday, July 26, 2015 11:29 AM, "fgexbill@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
I am in the process of changing some details on one of the Atlas 11k tank cars, their 1062-1 Associated Cooperatives, a Sheffield, AL company that owned two cars. Mainly I am improving the sill steps, using the appropriate ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks and adding warning placards.

This got me interested in understanding what this chemical is and I found this online and thought others might like to read up on it: http://www.transcaer.com/docs/AATour/Transcaer_Ammonia_Training_Student_Handout_rev04.pdf

I will be interested to see if the new Kadee tank car underframe and Dome Platform can be joined with the Atlas tank w/o too much difficulty. Atlas did a beautiful job with the lettering so the model will do but I love the idea of the see-thru grating of the running board and platform. I think I was also smart enough to buy Atlas' Mississippi Chemical Corporation from Yazoo City, MS but if I did, it has gotten separated from my stash, LOL.

Bill Welch



Re: Rib side cars

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Richard
3 photos attached showing my Ribbed Sided car. Hope it helps.
Paul Doggett UK




Sent from Samsung mobile"'Richard White' rhwhite@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:I am building a Ribside Cars kit for a Milwaukee Road long rib single door 40' boxcar, the prototypes were built in 1939/40..
There are some parts which must be the 'tack boards' (four of them) which the instructions don't tell you clearly where they go.
Also, there is a slit in the end below the brake wheel mounting.What goes in there (if anything)?
Can anyone help with a picture to show where these things go?
Thank you for your help
Richard White.


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