Date   

Re: NP stock cars in L.A. ca. 1947-48?

Bill Vaughn
 

Did Yermo have a feeding lot?

Bill Vaughn



On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 2:56 PM, "bill stanton bill_stanton60@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
does anyone know where incoming UP trains with stock cars would usually rest and water stock?

San Bernardino B yard? Colton? East LA.?

(I'm assuming Las Vegas would customarily be the prior stop for watering).

For that matter, what about eastbound trains? Were they fed and watered to start with in East LA?, Colton?, San Bernardino?

Any info much appreciated

(My time frame is late forties, approximately)

thanks
bill



From: STMFC@... on behalf of 'Steve Sandifer' steve.sandifer@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 3:10 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NP stock cars in L.A. ca. 1947-48?
 
 
53085 and 82833 arrived Oct. 5 loaded with horses for Clyde Miller in Pico. From Brockway, MT, on the UP, fed and watered at Vegas the night before.
83361 arrived Oct 6 with more horses for Clyde Miller, from Circle, MT, fed and watered at Vegas the night before on the UP.
83750 arrived Oct. 8 with steers for George Hastkings in National City. From Dixon, MT, fed and watered at Vegas the night before.
 
 
__________________________________________________
J. Stephen Sandifer
Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ
Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society
 
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 5:01 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NP stock cars in L.A. ca. 1947-48?
 
 
do you have any indication of what trains and/or railroads (UP?,ATSF?) brought these into San Bernardino?
 

From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of 'Steve Sandifer' steve.sandifer@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:38 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NP stock cars in L.A. ca. 1947-48?
 
 
I have records of 263 cars that were unloaded at the San Bernardino feeding station of the ATSF in October/November 1945. Included in that were 4 NP cars:
 
53085 and 82833 arrived Oct. 5 loaded with horses for Clyde Miller in Pico.
83361 arrived Oct 6 with more horses for Clyde Miller
83750 arrived Oct. 8 with steers for George Hastkings in National City.
 
This does not answer your 1947 question.
__________________________________________________
J. Stephen Sandifer
Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ
Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society
 
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 11:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] NP stock cars in L.A. ca. 1947-48?
 
 
Were Northern Pacific stock cars ever seen in the Los Angeles area circa 1947-48?



Re: NP stock cars in L.A. ca. 1947-48?

bill stanton
 

does anyone know where incoming UP trains with stock cars would usually rest and water stock?


San Bernardino B yard? Colton? East LA.?


(I'm assuming Las Vegas would customarily be the prior stop for watering).


For that matter, what about eastbound trains? Were they fed and watered to start with in East LA?, Colton?, San Bernardino?


Any info much appreciated


(My time frame is late forties, approximately)


thanks

bill




From: STMFC@... on behalf of 'Steve Sandifer' steve.sandifer@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 3:10 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NP stock cars in L.A. ca. 1947-48?
 
 

53085 and 82833 arrived Oct. 5 loaded with horses for Clyde Miller in Pico. From Brockway, MT, on the UP, fed and watered at Vegas the night before.

83361 arrived Oct 6 with more horses for Clyde Miller, from Circle, MT, fed and watered at Vegas the night before on the UP.

83750 arrived Oct. 8 with steers for George Hastkings in National City. From Dixon, MT, fed and watered at Vegas the night before.

 

 

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ

Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 5:01 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NP stock cars in L.A. ca. 1947-48?

 

 

do you have any indication of what trains and/or railroads (UP?,ATSF?) brought these into San Bernardino?

 


From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of 'Steve Sandifer' steve.sandifer@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 10:38 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NP stock cars in L.A. ca. 1947-48?

 

 

I have records of 263 cars that were unloaded at the San Bernardino feeding station of the ATSF in October/November 1945. Included in that were 4 NP cars:

 

53085 and 82833 arrived Oct. 5 loaded with horses for Clyde Miller in Pico.

83361 arrived Oct 6 with more horses for Clyde Miller

83750 arrived Oct. 8 with steers for George Hastkings in National City.

 

This does not answer your 1947 question.

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

Minister Emeritus, Southwest Central Church of Christ

Webmaster, Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 11:59 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] NP stock cars in L.A. ca. 1947-48?

 

 

Were Northern Pacific stock cars ever seen in the Los Angeles area circa 1947-48?


Re: ART ALTERNATE LETTERING SCHEME

hubert mask
 

Contact MPHS art decals should be arriving soon.  

Mask Island Decals is offering these sets to them

Hubert Mask


On Jul 29, 2015, at 3:48 PM, billnlargo@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Oddballs?  Tom Stoltz did a lot of MP stuff, including almost a dozen different ART reefer configurations...

Regards,
Bill Adam


Re: ART ALTERNATE LETTERING SCHEME

Bill Adam
 

Oddballs?  Tom Stoltz did a lot of MP stuff, including almost a dozen different ART reefer configurations...
Regards,
Bill Adam


ART ALTERNATE LETTERING SCHEME

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

A few years ago an additional Buzz Saw decal was offered in order to create
an alternate lettering scheme for the Amarillo Railroad Museum ART refrigerator
car. Does anyhone remember who offeed this decal? I know that I bought it
but can't seem to oocate it.

Thanks for any help.

Bill Pardie


Re: Southern Boxcar Aluminum Monogram

O Fenton Wells
 

Ted Culotta has the aluminum monogram in his set No.100 I think the number is.


--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: Southern Boxcar Herald Laments

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Craig (aka Zman) Yes Hubert has done an excellent set with both monograms and will do all SR boxcars from 1930's through the early 60's. The set is Mask Island No.87-168.
Sorry this took so long to reply but I have just had eye surgery, last Tuesday and have been not allowed to use the phone or computer until today.
Fenton


On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:38 PM, Craig Zeni clzeni@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 


On Jul 21, 2015, at 3:30 AM, STMFC@... wrote:

> 4a. Southern Boxcar Herald Laments
> Posted by: "Garth Groff" sarahsan@... ggg9y
> Date: Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:22 pm ((PDT))
>
> Friends,
>
> I picked up copy of Jim Kincaid's SOUTHERN RAILWAY COLOR GUIDE at the
> Virginia Museum of Transportation this morning. I went to Roanoke to see
> the Y-6a which is on loan from St. Louis. Impressive. Very hard to
> photograph with their narrow grounds. Rods all missing. But back to the
> book. I was pleased to see that there were a number of 1950s-era cars shown.
>
> On thing stood out right away to me. The herald on 10048 built in 1938
> and photographed in 1945 (page [33]) is quite different from the others.
> The slogan "The Southern serves the South" is of a large style and
> nearly fills the entire space between the two rings. The slogans on
> 22423 on the same page, 27000 (page [34]) and 30579 (page [35]) are in
> much smaller style and do not fill the rings. 30579 was built in 1951/52
> and appears in original paint. 27000 was repainted circa 1958. Another
> car, 330219, a 1946-built car shown in 1953 also has the smaller lettering.
>
> I just checked my dwindling stock of Champ decals, and all that I have
> of the large size are the older type shown on 10048 measure 5' across. I
> do have one pair of a 4' herald with the smaller slogan, maker unknown.
>
> I have a pair of unbuilt 50' P2K auto cars, both with a "New 1944" date.
> One has a 4' 3" herald with the smaller lettering. The second has a 5'
> herald with the slogan filling the ring, but lettering style doesn't
> look like 10048. Oh, poop!
>
> Where can I get the more modern herald decals? When did the heralds
> change? And how large (always 5'?) were these on boxcars ? Inquiring
> minds want to know.
>
> Maybe I shouldn't have bought the book. But then the prototype police
> would eventually have noticed. But now I know the 50' PS-1 I lettered up
> a few years ago is WRONG!

Also check the Mask Island decals...Hubert Mask worked with Fenton Wells etc and makes an excellent steam era set.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC




--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: Westvaco...the mysterious case of Westvaco

Allen Montgomery
 

I've chased trains over all of the branches serving the mines in western Wyoming. This was back in the 80's and 90's with my dad, who grew up in the area. I can assure you that there wasn't anything out there named Westvaco until the mine opened. If they wanted to name a road after the hint of civilization out there, they would have called it Sheep-dip Highway. Before 9/11 you never really had to pay attention to no trespassing signs. I could drive right up to the plant.  Who would be out there if they didn't have to be? Now railfans are suspected of being in bed with terrorists. I bet Otto Perry never had to put up with that kind of insult.
I suspect that the confusion about the name came from the fact that it was brand new at the time. They hadn't settled on an agreed spelling. The other possibility is that the problem is akin to what is found in the Freight Shippers Guide. It was up to the local agents to gather data of their area to submit. Either they did a good job or a lousy one. Can the publisher in Omaha really correct something he doesn't know to be false?
Speaking of UP Freight Shippers Guides, I am looking for more. So if anyone out there has an edition they want to part with, please, contact me off group.Thanks.
Allen Montgomery



On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 3:06 PM, "'Mike Brock' brockm@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Tony Thompson writes:

"I would like to make a couple of points that seemed to have slipped by
people in this thread. First of all, West Virginia Pulp and Paper
Corporation did not change its name to Wesvaco until 1969, therefore of
limited interest by that name to this group."

Good point. Still, it is curious as to why they selected that name. I mean,
why not Westvirco or even Paperco? Or even Laramieco? If you're going to use
someone else's name, choose something more well known. Why not Fordco? At
least they could get some use out of all those lawyers.

"Second, the location of the soda ash mining operation of the Westvaco Corp.
in Wyoming is located near a place called West Vaco, and the map shows a
West Vaco Road nearby."

More good points. Incidentally, I'm probably the only one in the group that
has actually been to the UP's Westvaco location [ but not to the mine ]. I
have to admit, though, that I wasn't aware of it since we were traveling at
90MPH trying to catch UP's 844/3985 when we went through although, again, I
only know this because the UP's Westvaco location is...or was...9 miles east
of Granger on the mainline.

Somewhat more curiously, UP either misspelled the name in 1953, or perhaps
became confused at the nearby West Vaco spelling because it reads Westvago
in the 1953 Official Guide. This was possibly corrected to Westvaco in the
'63 guide. OTOH, I know of 3 different UP spellings of Whasatch [ I try to
use a different one with every use ] so perhaps the next guide had a
different spelling. All of this shrinks, however, compared to SHPX's problem
when they addressed the problem of applying the company name to the covered
hoppers. I mean, West Vaco, Westvago or Westvaco?

Mike Brock




Westvaco, Wy

JP Barger
 

This is a followup on Mike Brock’s squib on Westvaco, WY. Glad you used the word “probably”, Mike,  because my brother and I took a leisurely drive on a Sunday in June 1994 from Evanston to Laramie in my new Explorer, staying as close to the UP mainline as possible with a 4wheel. In those days, the UP gave out permits to a selected group to be on RR property, a discontinued policy. Reception for outsiders has gone in the intervening years from hospitable to downright ‘circle the wagons’. Like with everything, there are lots of ways to look at every policy. One way is to have as many friends around you as you can. So, if you want to go where we did legally then, it would be inadvisable now unless you’re a local, well known to the local UP RR’ers. Don’t try being on UP property anywhere unless you have a specific authorization.

 

Anyhow, I wanted to mention to Mike B. that the tunnels east of Evanston through the watershed ridge between the Bear River watershed and the Muddy Creek one were built years apart and have separate names and locations near but not immediately adjacent to each other. That means that using data based on trains or tonnage through there  could be for one or both tunnels. Just another thing to watch out for.

 

But back to Muddy Creek between the tunnels and Green River. We found our way that Sunday (RR)eastbound along the Muddy, alternately using roads on opposite  sides of the Muddy, but at Westvaco at that time the road went immediately behind the processing and loading facility, between the plant and the UP.

 

Population has expanded so much that it’s getting harder and harder to do solos anymore, Mike.

 

For those of you who have been to Green River and perhaps stood on the footbridge overlooking the west throat of the UP yard, you have seen dozens to hundreds of covered hoppers there. The production in the Westvaco area up from the Green River and to the west is the reason for the storage of so many cars. It’s a big business.

 

Friendly like,     JP


A 'global perspective' on the thread about "fleet composition"

Jim Betz
 

Hello,

It is clear to me that "we have all grown in terms of our collective
understanding of freight was handled. What just a few years ago
was essentially a "good start at getting more knowledge about
what the practices/methods were" has blossomed into a body of
knowledge that results in threads such as this one.
It is interesting, to me at least, that all of this good stuff (that is
NOT meant sarcastically) was originally prompted by a few guys
saying to themselves (and then to all of us) "it just doesn't feel
right to go to some Op or other and see freight car mixes that
don't fit with what we/I see in photos". Which resulted in some
studies done such as "The Wyoming Study" (sic) ... and a lot of
discussions/arguments about how to "interpret" the meaning
of those studies. And now what we have are not arguments
but rather open, honest, well thought out statements/ideas/
questions/answers.

In summary - what has happened is that we've moved from
"building up the freight car fleet" is all about being concerned
about "the dates on the sides of the cars" to choosing which
cars we will/will not include on our layouts - and if they are
there how often/frequent/common should they be "showing
up".

Much of the time the threads get "way too detailed" (yes, I
mean "picky") and I, like many others on this list, just say to
myself "here we go again" ... and scroll past that entry. But
we can't do that "all the time" because there ARE some
real kernels of wheat in all of the chaff that if we don't do a
good job of "winnowing" we will miss.

THANK YOU - all of you - for helping me see the difference
between layouts that are "off" - and helping me to be able
to understand/talk about "why" with words that take me
from "off" to "why this one is off".

===> or "ON" ... which happens a lot more
these days and is the more important
part of experiencing someone else's
"vision of what a layout is/isn't".

I go to a -lot- of Ops sessions. Yes, predictably the majority
of those are on a relatively small number of layouts. Not all
of them have "that prototypical feel" ... but I can enjoy each
of them for what they are. And I visit a lot more layouts
without actually operating on them - during the course of a
year I will probably visit 30 to 50 layouts (some years more).
I try hard to view each layout thru it's owner's eyes - and
sometimes it is hard to keep my tongue in my head - but
each person/layout owner/group of guys has their own rules,
preferences, visions, goals, realities of time and money,
etc., etc., etc. And it is rare that I don't take away something
from each layout visit/op session. Interestingly enough I am
"still learning" even from the layouts I go to/operate on very
regularly.
- thanks again ... Jim B.


Re: 1954 and 1955 Tank car action on the NP

Tim O'Connor
 

Bruce

Yeah, I wasn't exactly sure what he meant either. But if I recall the NP
owned quite a lot of land grant property which began to produce crude oil
in the 1950's -- in the same general area now known as the Bakken Shale --
and prior to the construction of pipelines a lot of it travelled in tank cars.
I'd have to dig out my 1950's NP annual reports but I think that's where I read
about it.

Tim O'Connor

I hate to complain, but the named folder is empty, you provide little or no information as to what the documents contain and no indication why Frank would have the reaction he did� How about giving a synopsis of what the document(s) contains and why you think that they are important and interesting?
Bruce F. Smith


Re: 1954 and 1955 Tank car action on the NP

Bruce Smith
 

Jim,

I hate to complain, but the named folder is empty, you provide little or no information as to what the documents contain and no indication why Frank would have the reaction he did…  How about giving a synopsis of what the document(s) contains and why you think that they are important and interesting?

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jul 29, 2015, at 1:34 AM, jcdworkingonthenp@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Recently on the STMFC, there was I believe a Pipeline vs Oil Car conversation. Again, I was off at our historical societies’ convention and so this input was delayed. 
     In some records of the Northern Pacific Railway, located in the Minnesota Historical Society, I had found the paperwork of one such car movement. 

The scanned pages are found in a file entitled: 1954 and 1955 Tank car action on the NP.    

The timeframe is not the 1953 time frame I am most interested in however it is close, so I’ll take it. 

Frank H Peacock who was at our convention, looked over this paperwork and noted - the 10000 gal tank cars - and muttered some “uh huh, I thought so”. 

Thank you to the MHS (mnhs.org) for saving these records and allowing their use here.

                                                                                      Jim Dick – Roseville, MN 

BTW, Trainmaster Lee’s letter of the car list on the fourth page uploaded was not attached to the paperwork I saw. 


1954 and 1955 Tank car action on the NP

np328
 

Recently on the STMFC, there was I believe a Pipeline vs Oil Car conversation. Again, I was off at our historical societies’ convention and so this input was delayed.

     In some records of the Northern Pacific Railway, located in the Minnesota Historical Society, I had found the paperwork of one such car movement.

The scanned pages are found in a file entitled: 1954 and 1955 Tank car action on the NP.    

The timeframe is not the 1953 time frame I am most interested in however it is close, so I’ll take it.

Frank H Peacock who was at our convention, looked over this paperwork and noted - the 10000 gal tank cars - and muttered some “uh huh, I thought so”.

Thank you to the MHS (mnhs.org) for saving these records and allowing their use here.

                                                                                      Jim Dick – Roseville, MN

BTW, Trainmaster Lee’s letter of the car list on the fourth page uploaded was not attached to the paperwork I saw.


Re: fleet composition

devansprr
 

PRR had a very similar approach rating approach (tonnage versus speed) going over the Appalachian summit on the Pittsburgh division during the steam era.

The PRR also had some pure LCL trains on some of the high traffic routes that ran ahead of perishables and closer to mail and express train speeds.

One of the east bound LCL's also ran with stock and perishables, typically on longer runs that needed fast movement to avoid re-icing or stock watering/resting; for example a 14 hour run from Pittsburgh to Harsimus, NJ for floating to NYCity markets and the New Haven (for points further east), which was faster than the main stock train east out of Pittsburgh.

And it appears the PRR would mix LCL, perishables (reefer or stock) and merchandise on many non-drag trains to fill out tonnage, as long as the highest priority schedule could be met.

Another WWII exception for the PRR was a train out of Detroit for Harrisburg, PA and points east - it had a lower tonnage rating than nearly all other freights. DT&I had to provide cars from Ford motor by 9:30 PM at Carleton, just RR east of Detroit, with the train departing 30 minutes later and arriving at Enola (Harrisburg, PA yard) 22.5 hours later. I never thought of WWII Detroit operating on a "just-in-time" manufacturing mode, but the schedule includes deliveries to Chevrolet in Baltimore, GM in Linden, NJ, and Ford Motor in Chester, PA. From the schedules, it looks like they were attempting to have parts loaded in Detroit by 6 PM delivered to east coast plants before 6 AM the second day. That train could also be filled out with perishables and LCL traffic. Pretty sporting schedule.

My original point gets back to staging. I think it is possible to have a few through freights where these "trains within a train" could be shuffled in large blocks of cars to create other through trains without requiring another staging track, or more cars. The trains would then appear different the second time around the layout, and as long as the prototype police were not taking numbers, few would spot the repeated cars, unless they happened to contain that rare car - like the N&W hopper...

Ducking for cover....

Dave Evans

---In STMFC@..., <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote :

The Steam-Era Freight Cars on the UP tended to move on one of three priorities:

Livestock / Perishable [fast – more horsepower + shorter trains]

Manifest [merchandise, manufactured goods, lumber]

Drag [slow.  Empties, low-value commodities such as coal, company material, gravel.  Drag freights did not merit a train symbol and were usually run as extras, so they don’t show in the ETT or other schedules – only on Dispatchers’ Train Sheets].

 

I agree that the DS [dispatcher] would work hard to keep the perishables moving quickly.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 4:19 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: fleet composition

 

 

Mike Brock asks: What would you call a train of 10 cars of wine, 23 cars of lumber, 30 PFE cars of spuds, and 15 PFE cars of apples?

Trick question Mike.

Mike Brock fails to state if the lumber is sold or roller lumber. If lumber was sold enroute on the NP, it was switched out at the next convenient yard that a higher priority freight could shortly pick it up. Once sold, prior roller lumber was to be delivered yesterday and considered as hot as the perishables.

   On the NP, from the records I have seen, it would be dispatched as a perishable designation. On the UP, perhaps one of those that Jeff had listed.   

    On the NP, whenever one freight was disbanded at a major sort point (like Laurel on the NP) and joined with another to consolidate tonnage, the new train always held the higher designation of the two older ones. 

    In the example Mike gives, the wine could freeze or overheat in winter or summer respectively, as could the apples or spuds and that is where the damage claims would be. The lumber could always be put off in a yard track or switched out later. 

    On the NP, if the fruit train needed filler tonnage, even company coal, it still traveled on the fruit train designation. The ice melts no matter what. The heaters need servicing, and in protected service, both those things checked. 

    I would believe the UP historical references Mike mentioned yesterday would  cover his question under the above mentioned disbanded.                  Jim Dick


Re: SOO 136000

destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote :


I just checked my Sunshine Soo Line 1932 "rebuild" kit and it includes a
rectangular panel roof. Martin's instructions say that cars that received
new roofs were all repainted with the billboard letters. Makes sense. He
does not mention diagonal panel roofs, but I know some cars got those from
photo evidence.
===============

Yabut... Martin very likely picked up that information from my article in RMC about 1984 or so, when I was under the impression that these cars had panel roofs from the getgo. It was one of the few (only?) published references on these cars at the time. I freely admit I was in error.

These weren't early cars; indeed they are quite late for 1932 AAR cars, and are transitional in that they have the body width of the later 1937 AAR cars, but not the height. Meanwhile, SRECo transitioned to the diagonal panel design a mere twelve years later... that's awfully soon to be replacing roofs. I can't prove otherwise, but seriously doubt any of these cars ever received rectangular panel roofs.

Dennis Storzek


Re: fleet composition

Aley, Jeff A
 

The Steam-Era Freight Cars on the UP tended to move on one of three priorities:

Livestock / Perishable [fast – more horsepower + shorter trains]

Manifest [merchandise, manufactured goods, lumber]

Drag [slow.  Empties, low-value commodities such as coal, company material, gravel.  Drag freights did not merit a train symbol and were usually run as extras, so they don’t show in the ETT or other schedules – only on Dispatchers’ Train Sheets].

 

I agree that the DS [dispatcher] would work hard to keep the perishables moving quickly.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2015 4:19 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: fleet composition

 

 

Mike Brock asks: What would you call a train of 10 cars of wine, 23 cars of lumber, 30 PFE cars of spuds, and 15 PFE cars of apples?

Trick question Mike.

Mike Brock fails to state if the lumber is sold or roller lumber. If lumber was sold enroute on the NP, it was switched out at the next convenient yard that a higher priority freight could shortly pick it up. Once sold, prior roller lumber was to be delivered yesterday and considered as hot as the perishables.

   On the NP, from the records I have seen, it would be dispatched as a perishable designation. On the UP, perhaps one of those that Jeff had listed.   

    On the NP, whenever one freight was disbanded at a major sort point (like Laurel on the NP) and joined with another to consolidate tonnage, the new train always held the higher designation of the two older ones. 

    In the example Mike gives, the wine could freeze or overheat in winter or summer respectively, as could the apples or spuds and that is where the damage claims would be. The lumber could always be put off in a yard track or switched out later. 

    On the NP, if the fruit train needed filler tonnage, even company coal, it still traveled on the fruit train designation. The ice melts no matter what. The heaters need servicing, and in protected service, both those things checked. 

    I would believe the UP historical references Mike mentioned yesterday would  cover his question under the above mentioned disbanded.                  Jim Dick


Re: fleet composition

np328
 

Mike Brock asks: What would you call a train of 10 cars of wine, 23 cars of lumber, 30 PFE cars of spuds, and 15 PFE cars of apples?

Trick question Mike.

Mike Brock fails to state if the lumber is sold or roller lumber. If lumber was sold enroute on the NP, it was switched out at the next convenient yard that a higher priority freight could shortly pick it up. Once sold, prior roller lumber was to be delivered yesterday and considered as hot as the perishables.

   On the NP, from the records I have seen, it would be dispatched as a perishable designation. On the UP, perhaps one of those that Jeff had listed.   

    On the NP, whenever one freight was disbanded at a major sort point (like Laurel on the NP) and joined with another to consolidate tonnage, the new train always held the higher designation of the two older ones. 

    In the example Mike gives, the wine could freeze or overheat in winter or summer respectively, as could the apples or spuds and that is where the damage claims would be. The lumber could always be put off in a yard track or switched out later. 

    On the NP, if the fruit train needed filler tonnage, even company coal, it still traveled on the fruit train designation. The ice melts no matter what. The heaters need servicing, and in protected service, both those things checked. 

    I would believe the UP historical references Mike mentioned yesterday would  cover his question under the above mentioned disbanded.                  Jim Dick


Re: SOO 136000

Tim O'Connor
 


I just checked my Sunshine Soo Line 1932 "rebuild" kit and it includes a
rectangular panel roof. Martin's instructions say that cars that received
new roofs were all repainted with the billboard letters. Makes sense. He
does not mention diagonal panel roofs, but I know some cars got those from
photo evidence.

Tim O'


I have uploaded a couple more photos of these cars taken in the eighties; they were all in company service by that time, even though they still carried their revenue numbers. Last use seems to have been "route cars" for material to and from the stores dept. Most of the cars with billboard lettering have had both their roofs replaced and side sills reinforced, although I have never learned if both improvements were done at the same time (because I never looked, as it's after my era of interest.) SOO 42470 seems to be somewhat of an exception, as it received neither improvement.

Dennis Storzek


Re: fleet composition

Mikebrock
 

Jeff Aley says:

"I'd call it what the UP called it. Each traffic type (originally a train, but combined at Ogden or Green River) had a symbol. In the era in question, it was probably the RV / SPX / HF.
That's RV = Roseville Fruit (10 cars of wine)
SPX = Seattle + Portland Manifest (23 cars of lumber)
HF = Hinkle Fruit (45 PFE's of apples and spuds)."

I would certainly agree that somewhere in the UP someone referred to trains using their symbols although Fraley never wrote a single symbol into his book. And, you would probably be right that the "correct" term would be the symbol. However, as I noticed in the book The Steam Locomotive by Ralph Johnson, Chief Engineer for Baldwin Locomotive Works, Johnson used the terms plain bearings, friction bearings and solid bearings all for the same bearings and all on the same page. In my own line of work, seldom did a "rocket scientist" use the "correct" term [ like Atlas Centaur ], preferring to use the general term...missle...for a rocket that certainly at the time was not a missle.

"And I don't call trains of reefers "reefer trains" because the prototype called them fruit trains or fruit blocks, even though potatoes are not fruits."

Probably so...except, how many reefers would be required in the train?


"P.S. I'm assuming the wine was in reefers. If in tank cars, then perhaps they would have moved on the OVE (Overland East Manifest)."

It's not that simple...of course. 1 NRC, 2 PFE, 4 SHPX, 3 GATX

Mike Brock


Re: Canadian Cars - 17000 CN cars in 1950 in US

George Eichelberger
 

There is a significant amount of letters, circulars and correspondence about car shortages, car orders and new car production numbers covering the period 1944 to about 1950 in the SRHA archives. Questionnaires were sent out by the AAR then the responses were accumulated and used to produce various reports. Individual railroads were cited as not providing their “fair share” of equipment. Surprisingly (to me), the NYC was criticized for trapping foreign road cars for use on its lines. Historically, the Southern always received rather than paid when car hire charges were settled.

There is too much raw data to distribute but the subject may make for an interesting presentation at CCB 2016 if people think there is enough interest in the topic.

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