Date   

Re: freight car wheels--ribbed back or smooth back in late 40s?

bill stanton
 

Would it be fair to say that smooth backed wheels were not in use 1947-48?




From: STMFC@... on behalf of Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC]
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2015 12:23 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] freight car wheels--ribbed back or smooth back in late 40s?
 
 


On Aug 2, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Perhaps this is better defined as when were the ribbed wheels first recognized as a safety issue, first banned on what car types, and when were they finally completely outlawed on freight cars?

I believe the total ban was some time after the 40's.

Mike,
Throughout the 1940s and into the 1950s, cast iron wheel were used extensively on new freight cars.

The following link contains information published by the NYCHS (3rd quarter 1996) and describes the various types of freight car wheels and the eventual ban on cast iron wheels. 


According to the link, "As of January 1, 1958, no cast iron wheels could be applied to new or rebuilt cars. On January 1, 1964 no more new cast iron wheels were to be applied to existing cars. And, on January 1, 1968 all cast iron wheels were prohibited in interchange.” I would request Guy Wilber, the STMFC longstanding and trusted source for A.A.R. history, to verify this. In any event, any widespread ban of cast iron wheels didn’t occur until beyond the scope of this forum. 

Chilled Car Wheels were advertised with a full-page ad and photo on p. 1049 of the 1949-51 Car Builders’ Cyclopedia. This wheel had been in use for decades and is modeled by Kadee having swirls on the back of the wheel that extend from near the rim to near the axle. 

A new design for chilled wheels was adopted in 1950. An advertisement with a synopsis and photo of an "improved chilled car wheel" was published on p. 1009 of the 1953 Car Builders Cyclopedia. This new chilled wheel was different than earlier chilled wheels having only a narrow band of swirls a few inches inside the rim of the wheel. 

I have builder documentation of these new cast-iron wheels being used on significant quantities of new freight cars during the early 1950s, and I would like to see Kadee add this wheel in their product line as it was used on numerous freight cars built during the 1950s including a significant number of PS-1 box cars.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: freight car wheels--ribbed back or smooth back in late 40s?

Ed Hawkins
 


On Aug 2, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Perhaps this is better defined as when were the ribbed wheels first recognized as a safety issue, first banned on what car types, and when were they finally completely outlawed on freight cars?

I believe the total ban was some time after the 40's.

Mike,
Throughout the 1940s and into the 1950s, cast iron wheel were used extensively on new freight cars.

The following link contains information published by the NYCHS (3rd quarter 1996) and describes the various types of freight car wheels and the eventual ban on cast iron wheels. 


According to the link, "As of January 1, 1958, no cast iron wheels could be applied to new or rebuilt cars. On January 1, 1964 no more new cast iron wheels were to be applied to existing cars. And, on January 1, 1968 all cast iron wheels were prohibited in interchange.” I would request Guy Wilber, the STMFC longstanding and trusted source for A.A.R. history, to verify this. In any event, any widespread ban of cast iron wheels didn’t occur until beyond the scope of this forum. 

Chilled Car Wheels were advertised with a full-page ad and photo on p. 1049 of the 1949-51 Car Builders’ Cyclopedia. This wheel had been in use for decades and is modeled by Kadee having swirls on the back of the wheel that extend from near the rim to near the axle. 

A new design for chilled wheels was adopted in 1950. An advertisement with a synopsis and photo of an "improved chilled car wheel" was published on p. 1009 of the 1953 Car Builders Cyclopedia. This new chilled wheel was different than earlier chilled wheels having only a narrow band of swirls a few inches inside the rim of the wheel. 

I have builder documentation of these new cast-iron wheels being used on significant quantities of new freight cars during the early 1950s, and I would like to see Kadee add this wheel in their product line as it was used on numerous freight cars built during the 1950s including a significant number of PS-1 box cars.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: freight car wheels--ribbed back or smooth back in late 40s?

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 8/2/2015 10:26 AM, Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC] wrote:
"Smooth back" (normally steel) and "ribbed back" (normally chilled cast iron) wheels were both used in significant quantities on virtually all types of freight cars. There’s really no way to quantify fleet percentages with any degree of accuracy.

    Until recently if you wanted .088 wheels you had to go with "smooth".  Hard to do ribbed on a screw machine (grin). 
   
    Now I believe Kadee has "ribbed" .088 in their wheelsets.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: freight car wheels--ribbed back or smooth back in late 40s?

Ed Hawkins
 


On Aug 2, 2015, at 11:44 AM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Can anyone provide info as to the usage of smooth back vs. ribbed back wheels on the freight car fleet as it existed in the late 1940s?



Bill,
"Smooth back" (normally steel) and "ribbed back" (normally chilled cast iron) wheels were both used in significant quantities on virtually all types of freight cars. There’s really no way to quantify fleet percentages with any degree of accuracy.

Some railroads had general tendencies to buy either steel or cast iron wheels. For modeling purposes it’s best to base the type of wheels used on photographs if the back of a wheel can be seen. Builder data if available is useful as well as railroad freight car diagrams, some of which specify the type of wheels on their cars. Trucks & wheels could also be changed as part of routine maintenance, so there’s no guarantee that the type of wheels originally used remained the same over time. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: freight car wheels--ribbed back or smooth back in late 40s?

naptownprr
 

My understanding is that both types were in use at that time.  You might also ask Ben Hom.

 

Jim Hunter


From: STMFC@... on behalf of bill_stanton60@... [STMFC]
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2015 12:44 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] freight car wheels--ribbed back or smooth back in late 40s?
 
 

Can anyone provide info as to the usage of smooth back vs. ribbed back wheels on the freight car fleet as it existed in the late 1940s?


Re: freight car wheels--ribbed back or smooth back in late 40s?

mwbauers
 

Perhaps this is better defined as when were the ribbed wheels first recognized as a safety issue, first banned on what car types, and when were they finally completely outlawed on freight cars?

I believe the total ban was some time after the 40's.

Anyone know?

Mike Bauers


On Aug 2, 2015, at 11:44 AM, "bill_stanton60@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Can anyone provide info as to the usage of smooth back vs. ribbed back wheels on the freight car fleet as it existed in the late 1940s?


freight car wheels--ribbed back or smooth back in late 40s?

bill stanton
 

Can anyone provide info as to the usage of smooth back vs. ribbed back wheels on the freight car fleet as it existed in the late 1940s?


ART Reefer

frograbbit602
 

I started working on Sunshine Models ART Reefer, Kit 46.12, 1947-1948 steel refrigerator.   I have two questions on the kit.

1st  Did the ART reefers have the Duryea underframe?  I ask this as the instruction sheet says ART reefer; however, only makes reference to the URTX/MILW cars.    And, if so in the instructions it says to install the trapezoidal torsion bars.  I am having trouble with this instruction.  Is there a good photo of this available to look at somewhere to better understand how to install?


2nd Did the ART reefers have the normal AB brake component placement or were all components on one side of the center sill?


Thank You for your time and effort to help answer my questions in advance.

Lester Breuer



Re: Decals for LV PS1.

Tim O'Connor
 

With the disappearance of decal manufacturers, I wonder if an HO modeler out there is aware of a decal set for the early version of an LV  PS1 box car, that is a set correct for the first batch of PS1s to go to a railroad in the series 62000-62499.   I'm thinking of CHAMP but any set for this group of LV box cars would be fine.


Tom Baker


Re: Milk trains and cars

Brian Termunde
 

Well I for one, was very disappointed! Only because it meant that I couldn't any of those really cool milk cars on my model railroad!  : <

Seriously, it was a great series, and I learned a lot, so a sincerely, if belated, Thank You!

Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, UT
 
"My Train of Thought left the station without me!"


-----Original Message-----

3a. Re: Milk trains and cars
    Posted by: "Claus Schlund HGM" claus@... clausschlund
    Date: Sat Aug 1, 2015 9:01 am ((PDT))

Hi Chuck and List Members,

Chuck, I remember the RMC series you did very well, a great research piece and very inspirational at the time.

Claus Schlund


Re: What is the diagnosis?

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

It's only leaning at one end apparently, I'd be inclined to think it's had a pretty hefty shunt at the far corner - perhaps something not clear of the switch?  However  it also has a pretty interesting sag as well -  look at the line along the bottom of the sheathing and sill. 

Aidrian


To: STMFC@...
From: STMFC@...
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 21:23:26 -0400
Subject: [STMFC] What is the diagnosis?

 

Take a look at the lean on the second car from the caboose:
 
 
Any diagnosis for the problem? 
 
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock


Re: another SOO "1932" ARA/AAR box car

mopacfirst
 

Aha.  Or, maybe I should say, Aha!

That's not what I understood from the other photo of the roof, but maybe the snow was getting in the way.  So pardon my earlier disagreeing.

Ron Merrick


Re: Milk trains and cars

riverman_vt@...
 

    You are mistaken in thinking that New England had no straight milk trains, Chuck, 
as I'm sure Bob Mohowski will agree if you ask him. He still has as much interest in 
the subject as I do and we speak about it relatively often. While I would agree that 
the cities in the Northeast, from Boston south to Philadelphia had a lot more milk
traffic by rail that other areas Chicago must still be considered as well. Both Borden
and Bowman Dairy were two large shippers in the Chicago milk shed and there were]
a numbe rof smaller firns. The chief difference here seems to be that most of the
Chicago milk companies switched to truck, almost 100%, much earlier the we in
the Northeast did.

     For those interested we still have the North American Milk Train Association group
at Yahoo. You can find it easily with a Google search for "NAMTA Yahoo Group". We 
do not have a lot of posts. What you will find is people with serious interest in the
subject rather than idle chit chat. Ten years ago I put together three annual Milk Car
Meets here in Vermont all of which were attended by from 40 to 50 folks. One was 
tried in the Utica, NY area for those interested in milk moved over the NYC, D&H, 
your favorite NYO&W and the Erie but there simply wasn't much interest in that area
so it did not come about.

Cordially, Don Valentine
 


Re: Decals for LV PS1.

brianleppert@att.net
 

Speedwitch

B. Leppert


Decals for LV PS1.

Thomas Baker
 

​With the disappearance of decal manufacturers, I wonder if an HO modeler out there is aware of a decal set for the early version of an LV  PS1 box car, that is a set correct for the first batch of PS1s to go to a railroad in the series 62000-62499.   I'm thinking of CHAMP but any set for this group of LV box cars would be fine.


Tom Baker


What is the diagnosis?

gary laakso
 

Take a look at the lean on the second car from the caboose:
 
 
Any diagnosis for the problem? 
 
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock


grimy black

Bill Lane
 

I figure this is a stretch at this point but if anyone has any never opened bottles of Floquil Grimy Black that are less than 5 years old, I could be interested in buying some.

Please reply directly.


Thank You,
Bill Lane

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy,  PRSL & Reading in 1957 in S Scale since 1987

See my finished models at:
http://www.lanestrains.com
Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale!

PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded
(Trading is MUCH preferred)
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls 

***Join the PRR T&HS***
The other members are not ALL like me!
http://www.prrths.com
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf

Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society
It's FREE to join! http://www.prslhs.com 
Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL





Re: Warpage of Resin Castings (was Virtual RPM Meet?)

Tony Thompson
 

Anspach Denny wrote:

 

Pierre’s comments on the warped one piece car bodies gets my attention (!@#$%^&*).  These I bring into shape by forcing carefully  a forest of carefully measured struts of balsa wood between the sides (usually pre=warmed). Friction alone secures them in place, and only God will ever know that they are there.


   But Denny, now we ALL know .        

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Fun with Terry's NYC data

Allen Rueter
 

Rob,
   The direction is only implied, I know where Cleveland /Collinwood, Toledo,  Elyria are, but some off line locations are mixed in (Omaha, Sioux City,...)
I can e-mail a paired list if some one can tackle it.
 
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


From: "Robert rdkirkham@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2015 1:36 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Fun with Terry's NYC data

 
Thanks Allen - that makes sense of it – I was having trouble imagining no cars in that number. 
 
I wonder, does the data contain information on the direction of the traffic (eg. north bound, south bound, etc?)  I’d especially be keen to learn how much of that Canadian reporting mark freight equipment was moving other than North and South; or for south bound, how many cars were empty; for north bound, how many were loads.
 
Rob Kirkham
 


Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Fun with Terry's NYC data
 


Rob,
  There are 279 different reporting marks from 1946-1948 list, I just happen to cut it off at 200,
There are 46 one-of, 33 two-of, ...
142 0.54 CP
154 0.59 CN
 
--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO
 

From: "Robert rdkirkham@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Fun with Terry's NYC data
 
 
Interesting information Allen.  Can you clarify a point about the approach take: were Canadian reporting marks excluded from the list, or is the data showing that not 1 car in the 25961 cars recorded was from Canada?
 
Rob Kirkham
 


Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 7:53 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Fun with Terry's NYC data
 


Thought I would share some useless data from Terry's massive transcription. THANKS Terry.

out of 25961 entries from 1946-1948 types of loads:
N    %    Load
131 0.50 FEED
131 0.50 LIME
133 0.51 COKE
135 0.52 PLASTERBOARD
138 0.53 WIRE
185 0.71 FLUX STONE  
192 0.73 LIMESTONE
193 0.74 FLOUR
195 0.75 WHEAT
212 0.81 HOGS
215 0.82 OIL
224 0.86 IRON
270 1.04 MACHINERY
292 1.12 FRAMES
316 1.21 CATTLE
327 1.25 LUMBER
351 1.35 AUTOS
412 1.58 PAPER
456 1.75 PIPE
472 1.81 MEAT
486 1.87 STEEL
1277 4.9 STONE
1724 6.64 COAL
2219 8.54 MERCHANDISE
8094 31.17 EMPTY

              Destinations
136 0.52 MILWAUKEE
139 0.53 SYRACUSE
144 0.55 EAST BUFFALO
146 0.56 BOSTON
150 0.57 UTICA
155 0.59 PHILADELPHIA
176 0.67 GYPSUM
176 0.67 SOUTH BEND
188 0.72 EAST DEWITT
193 0.74 WEEHAWKEN
266 1.02 WEIRTON
291 1.12 DETROIT
292 1.12 COLLINWOOD
292 1.12 LOS ANGELES
337 1.29 SANDUSKY
379 1.45 SOUTH LORAIN
498 1.91 TO P&LE
527 2.02 ELYRIA
593 2.28 TOLEDO AIR LINE JCT.
618 2.38 YOUNGSTOWN
626 2.41 BUFFALO
695 2.67 DETROIT - MC
765 2.94 DANBURY
859 3.30 NEW YORK
914 3.52 TOLEDO
1195 4.60 CHICAGO
1484 5.71 CLEVELAND
3021 11.63 ELKHART

N     %  Mark (all types)
200 0.77 ACL
216 0.83 UTLX
219 0.84 SRLX
231 0.88 MP
236 0.90 B&LE
245 0.94 ARLX
249 0.95 SFRD
253 0.97 SP
270 1.04 L&N
287 1.10 RI
306 1.17 NP
316 1.21 UP
341 1.31 GN
346 1.33 W&LE
365 1.40 ERIE
388 1.49 SOUTHERN
389 1.49 READING
423 1.62 MDT
436 1.67 GATX
456 1.75 C&O
493 1.89 IC
516 1.98 CNW
520 2.00 CB&Q
530 2.04 ATSF
544 2.09 MILW
618 2.38 PFE
681 2.62 P&LE
734 2.82 N&W
953 3.67 B&O
2333 8.98 PRR
4978 19.17 NYC

Allen Rueter





Wig Wag Question Response

Nelson Moyer <ku0a@...>
 

Thanks for the link, Bob. I posted my question on the ATSF group, but I’m not sure how much more they can tell me that isn’t in Steve’s article. The one interesting observation in the prototype photo by Frank Ellington is that the wig wag appears to be yellow or orange on both sides, while the photo taken by Preston George clearly shows the back of the wig wag painted in the waycar body color. The other observation is that it appears that the white light is on the right when facing the target, which puts the red light on the left. I’m not sure about that, since I may only be seeing the lens in daylight. The model photo is incorrect in that the lights face outward away from the cupola. It’s too bad those photos are black and white. I’ve only found one photo of a waycar with wig wags in color, and they were faded yellow on both sides. I model CB&Q, and I don’t have much reference material on ATSF, hence the dependence  on web groups. I’ll wait and see what the ATSF group has to say before painting the wig wags.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

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