Date   

Re: KCS #20820 and 20834 missing from 1949 ORER?

Rich Yoder
 

Don’t be too quick to judge Walthers as doing something inaccurate. In as much as we know it happens. The accuracy of The ORERs’ isn’t 100%, as I have found dates on cars in photos that don’t exist in that place in time according to the ORERs’.

It’s a pretty darn accurate guide but is only as good as the people that submitted the information and whomever may have done the editing. ORERs’ are not flawless.

Rich Yoder

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2015 6:01 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] KCS #20820 and 20834 missing from 1949 ORER?

 




Perhaps it is because the Walthers cars are bogus in that they should have car builder type ends.

 

Barry Bennett,

Coventry, England. 

 

On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 11:19 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Walthers proto has KCS auto cars 20820 and 20834 (blt 1941) but my 1949 ORER shows a gap between #20809 and 20851. Can anyone explain this discrepancy?

 





Re: Hacking (not the electronic kind)

mopacfirst
 

That's a useful suggestion.  I hadn't seen those before, perhaps because of where they are listed.

I parted with my last Front Range cars a few weeks ago, courtesy of someone on this list who has a use for them.  But believe me, I have plenty of scrap undec freight car bodies to practice on.

Thanks for all the comments, guys.  I believe I've received a consensus, so now I'm going back to the workbench.

Ron Merrick


Re: Photo Of Assorted Boxcars

Andy Sperandeo
 

Hi Bob,

In the far-left foreground is a Santa Fe raised-roof Bx11 or Bx12 class. Either of these can be represented in HO by one of my favorite Westerfield kits. (See "Build resin freight car kits" in the February 2010 Model Railroader, p. 50.)

So long,

Andy


Re: Front Range

Tim O'Connor
 

I've got one of the D&RGW cars under construction on my workbench. Beautiful
gold & silver cars. I've decided to remove the floor and replace it with the
vastly superior Accurail underframe -- which happened to be designed to fit
the old Front Range bodies.

Tim O'Connor

In the Oct. 1992 Railmodel Journal I wrote an article about ACF 50' box cars of this
general type with either 8' or 9' door openings. The following series of cars can be
accurately modeled if the fish-belly side sills are modified using the general dimensions
outlined in the article.

D&RGW 64000-64099 (100 cars, ACF lot 4693, built 8-56)

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: KCS #20820 and 20834 missing from 1949 ORER?

Barry Bennett
 

Perhaps it is because the Walthers cars are bogus in that they should have car builder type ends.

Barry Bennett,
Coventry, England. 

On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 11:19 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Walthers proto has KCS auto cars 20820 and 20834 (blt 1941) but my 1949 ORER shows a gap between #20809 and 20851. Can anyone explain this discrepancy?



Photo Of Assorted Boxcars

thecitrusbelt@...
 

This undated photo from another source (I can’t remember where I originally saw it) was reposted on the O Gauge Railroading On-Line Forum:

 

http://tinyurl.com/p77mm2s

 

While the detail is not all that good there are three, if not four, distinct boxcars in the foreground. I believe the photo was taken in New York City.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Front Range

Ed Hawkins
 

On Aug 8, 2015, at 9:27 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee'
schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] wrote:

BTW, does anybody have some nominations for “early” versions of the
No. 5000 kits?  When did ACF introduce these cars?
Schuyler,
The version of the Improved Dreadnaught ends of the Front Range
Products 5000 model represent prototype 50'-6" box cars built in 1955
or later. The model came with 8' door openings, 16-panel welded sides,
and a diagonal panel roof.

I believe the model could be obtained only with a fish-belly side sill,
however, I'm not aware of any prototype cars of the FRP 5000 model that
were built this way. Please advise if FRP offered the 50'-6"
welded-side car with a "notched/tabbed" side sills. I really don't like
using the "notched" or "tabbed" term to describe the side sill, but I'm
not aware of a proper terminology.

In the Oct. 1992 Railmodel Journal I wrote an article about ACF 50' box
cars of this general type with either 8' or 9' door openings. The
following series of cars can be accurately modeled if the fish-belly
side sills are modified using the general dimensions outlined in the
article.

C&EI 3760-3784, 3800-3874 (100 cars, ACF lot 4457, built 4-55)
D&RGW 64000-64099 (100 cars, ACF lot 4693, built 8-56)
M-K-T 90151-90200 (150 cars, ACF lot 4724, built 10-56)
MP 81000-81099 (100 cars, ACF lot 5379, built 12-59)
RI 30500-30699 (200 cars, ACF lot 4554, built 12-55)

Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Hacking (not the electronic kind)

mwbauers
 

Can you please expand on that comment?

Aren’t the seams welded ???

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Aug 8, 2015, at 11:37 PM, pullmanboss wrote:


You don't want to use Archer's weld lines, you want their panel seams.



Tom Madden


Re: Hacking (not the electronic kind)

Tom Madden
 

You don't want to use Archer's weld lines, you want their panel seams.


Tom Madden


Re: vacuum

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 8/8/2015 8:08 PM, Alfred Westerfield westerfieldalfred@... [STMFC] wrote:
Does anyone know if I can get away with a $100 pump?

    Should be able to find a good used one for that price.  Also look at Harbor Freight as they have a couple in that price range.  A problem might be the container to pull the vacuum in.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Hacking (not the electronic kind)

Greg Martin
 

In response to Ron Merrick's email Ben Hom writes in part:
>Greg Martin will back me on this - sanding off detail and scribing lines is not difficult. Aircraft modelers do it often to get rid of excess/incorrect rivet detail and correct panel lines, and they deal with curved surfaces.  Think about it - what is more difficult, removing and rescribing detail, or cutting apart shells and ensuring that your pieces are proper lengths and square.  It's certainly a legit technique, but why make things harder for yourself?
[Unable to display image]

Ben Hom<
 
Ron,
 
Ben's right, removing the rivets from an existing freight car is far easier and more productive cutting a kit apart to rebuild into something is was never intended to be. I would venture to guess that if you took that approach the level of frustration would give the project the "glide test"in a hurry.
 
Ron, we recreated the PRR X45 50-foot single door boxcar car as a SHAKE_N_TAKE project in 2008 for our Cocoa Beach project. We used the Branchline Boxcar; however you could use the ACCURAIL car as well (as practice if you wish to first hone your skills). After dong three so far I could do them in my sleep.
 
If you wish fine and old Front Range Kit which should be had for a minor sum and practice, if you need help in a generic way, tell us your prototype and we can help, but for heaven sakes don't wish too long for someone to release it or bother slicing and dicing better kits for such an easy project.
 
Greg Martin   


Re: Hacking (not the electronic kind)

mwbauers
 

There is one more way to do the simulated welding. 

I’ve done road and roof tar lines this way after reading about others doing it. So I certainly didn’t invent it. For those you use a black or near-black paint to simulate the tar-lines, I’d use a more neutral grey for a weld line that gets painted over.

You  fill a medical or glue syringe with artists tube paint and shoot the line with it. 

For roads and roofs, you’d use a fine tip nylon glue syringe that might be too wide a line for car weld lines. In the hobby world of tools you could use something that mounts the very small blunt steel needles sold for very fine gluing. We do have some fine steel tipped glue syringes that would be perfect for this method.

I do have a bunch of insulin syringes that have a much smaller needle end than the nylon glue syringes have. If you have access to those, you could use them for fine, thin continuous weld lines.

The Archer weld seams replicate still more types of weld seams, and are quite worthy model details to apply for variety of detail.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Aug 8, 2015, at 10:27 PM, ron.merrick@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

True, I would do the Archer weld lines rather than scribing, which I did thirty years ago and didn't like the appearance of.  I used to have to do things like carve off the second (water) hatch off the sides of Athearn F7 models, and carve and fill and sand to get a blank dynamic brake hatch, or cut up the Athearn "62 foot" tank car in order to get what we would now call a beer-can tank car, in the days before there was more than one producer of plastic F unit models and more than two different injection-molded tank cars.  That's really why I would rather come up with other ways to do this.

But this was really a what-if question, just to see if anyone had actually experimented with this.  One thing about STMFC-ers is that some of them are not above just about anything in the quest for a better model.

Ron Merrick


Re: Hacking (not the electronic kind)

mopacfirst
 

True, I would do the Archer weld lines rather than scribing, which I did thirty years ago and didn't like the appearance of.  I used to have to do things like carve off the second (water) hatch off the sides of Athearn F7 models, and carve and fill and sand to get a blank dynamic brake hatch, or cut up the Athearn "62 foot" tank car in order to get what we would now call a beer-can tank car, in the days before there was more than one producer of plastic F unit models and more than two different injection-molded tank cars.  That's really why I would rather come up with other ways to do this.

But this was really a what-if question, just to see if anyone had actually experimented with this.  One thing about STMFC-ers is that some of them are not above just about anything in the quest for a better model.

Ron Merrick


vacuum

 

While resuming my modeling efforts I find I need some additional castings that are too fine to fill molds without vacuum.  Obviously I now have no access to a high quality vacuum pump and don't wish to pay for one.  Does anyone know if I can get away with a $100 pump?  I'll be using very thin urethane resin.  And I can accept a high percentage of rejects. - Al Westerfield


Re: SP Ogden Yard 50s - Bad News?

Schuyler Larrabee
 

There are two versions of the photo on the page Jim’s link leads to.  The one nearer the top of the page has a better resolution, or at least, a higher pixel count.

 

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2015 2:47 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: SP Ogden Yard 50s - Bad News?

 

 

Eric,

 

  Here is the link ... will go off line fairly soon.  There are many great photos in

this 'collection' ... I think I got to this collection the first time by finding a link

to "Utah Rails" ... but can't remember for certain (too long ago) ... Jim B.

 

 


Front Range

Schuyler Larrabee
 

The exchange about “hacking” included (from Ben) a reference to Front Range cars.  I’ve had four FR kits kicking around here for a long time.  Three No. 5000, 50’ ACF cars, and one ACF 3 Bay Grain Car.  It’s a ~50’ long car.

 

Someday I will maybe do something with the box cars (if I can find an early version of them) but the grain car is of no use to me.  Is somebody here interested in acquiring it?

 

BTW, does anybody have some nominations for “early” versions of the No. 5000 kits?  When did ACF introduce these cars?

 

Schuyler


Re: Hacking (not the electronic kind)

Benjamin Hom
 

Ron Merrick wrote:
"The direct answer to your question is that I'm frankly not sure I can successfully remove rivet detail enough so as to have no trace of it remaining, so I've been reluctant to apply this relatively obvious method.  This is probably a question which will raise more questions than answers, but one never knows."

You'll never know until you try.  Surely you have some Athearn or other junk boxcar shells lying around?  You may as well experiment on them.

"Some techniques lend themselves just fine to a one-off, and there are some techniques that, if they are complicated enough, render themselves not really suitable if I want to build several or a dozen cars of that particular type.  So this is kind of my point, that if I live long enough I'd like to build quite a few of these, perhaps even including an X43A someday."

Greg Martin will back me on this - sanding off detail and scribing lines is not difficult. Aircraft modelers do it often to get rid of excess/incorrect rivet detail and correct panel lines, and they deal with curved surfaces.  Think about it - what is more difficult, removing and rescribing detail, or cutting apart shells and ensuring that your pieces are proper lengths and square.  It's certainly a legit technique, but why make things harder for yourself?


Ben Hom


Re: Hacking (not the electronic kind)

mopacfirst
 

Ben:

There are quite a few 40' welded-side cars built through the fifties, some of which jumped out at me when I was checking RPCyc 29 for details of the lettering on a Katy dart-not end car which actually had riveted sides.

The direct answer to your question is that I'm frankly not sure I can successfully remove rivet detail enough so as to have no trace of it remaining, so I've been reluctant to apply this relatively obvious method.  This is probably a question which will raise more questions than answers, but one never knows.

Some techniques lend themselves just fine to a one-off, and there are some techniques that, if they are complicated enough, render themselves not really suitable if I want to build several or a dozen cars of that particular type.  So this is kind of my point, that if I live long enough I'd like to build quite a few of these, perhaps even including an X43A someday.

Ron Merrick


Re: Hacking (not the electronic kind)

mwbauers
 

oh….

It’s Archer [something] 

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Aug 8, 2015, at 8:23 PM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:

There are also very detailed raised urethane decals of a number of different types of welds available in the hobby market.

The name escapes me, but its that decal place that pioneered the scale rivet decal [not MicroMark]

With that you can not only sand off the rivets, and scribe the seams; you can also add  the detailed welding.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Aug 8, 2015, at 7:36 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:


Ron Merrick asked:
"Has anyone ever tried to cut the sides from an IM or Kadee (model of PS-1) box with welded sides, and splice then into a Branchline body, in order to get a welded-side boxcar such as the mid-to-later fifties production?  Or is this just too lunatic an idea to pursue?"

Why bother?  It's easier to remove the rivet detail and scribe in new weld lines for 10-panel cars, or find an C&BT Car Chops 12-panel welded side car with separate details for those prototypes. Speaking of which, what specific prototypes are you looking to model?


Ben Hom


Re: Hacking (not the electronic kind)

mwbauers
 

There are also very detailed raised urethane decals of a number of different types of welds available in the hobby market.

The name escapes me, but its that decal place that pioneered the scale rivet decal [not MicroMark]

With that you can not only sand off the rivets, and scribe the seams; you can also add  the detailed welding.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Aug 8, 2015, at 7:36 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:


Ron Merrick asked:
"Has anyone ever tried to cut the sides from an IM or Kadee (model of PS-1) box with welded sides, and splice then into a Branchline body, in order to get a welded-side boxcar such as the mid-to-later fifties production?  Or is this just too lunatic an idea to pursue?"

Why bother?  It's easier to remove the rivet detail and scribe in new weld lines for 10-panel cars, or find an C&BT Car Chops 12-panel welded side car with separate details for those prototypes. Speaking of which, what specific prototypes are you looking to model?


Ben Hom

59441 - 59460 of 195634