Date   

Re: [EXTERNAL] IHB / PLE colors (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Dave;

Having seen all in person, I have to say, to my eye, there were groups of P&LE box cars that appeared a slightly redder brown than those of most NYC cars. I noted an overall shift of all cars of fifties vintage System cars to a redder shade of brown, but the box cars looked different. There may have been shop and/or vendor variations in there, as most P&LE equipment was coming out of their own shops. The IHB cars I saw looked similar to P&LE equipment, for some reason. I am not sure anyone knows the entire story, so I go by photos I believe have accurate color rendition.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 3:42 PM
To: STMFC
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] IHB / PLE colors



Was the late steam era "boxcar car red" used on IHB and PLE equipment the same color as used on NYC equipment?



WRT to the date ranges for using brown or black overall on gondolas, did the dates for those paint specs for IHB and PLE gondolas the same as the NYC?



I'm assuming the answer to both are yes but I figure it's always best to ask this group before assuming anything.



Dave Nelson



Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: Attending RPM meets

Clark Propst
 

I truly enjoy the CCB meet. But it cost me a lot of money to attend. I now need to build a new layout so my limited hobby money is going to be spent on that project. I will be pining come January for sure.
 
Jason Klocke was a last minute attendee at St L this year and put together a clinic on his layout Friday night. I offered to give up my time slot to him. There was a cancelation which allowed him to present too. We switched time slots because Jason had to fly home. I sat down near Jack Spencer and Jack asked what was going on? As it was my turn to show. I told him the Jason is to scenery what he is to freight car modeling.  Hope Jack enjoyed?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
 
It is VERY interesting to read the comments abou the various RPM meetings.

I would be very surprised if the leaders of other RPM meetings are not taking notes. I know that I am.

Regards,

-Jeff Aley
Clinic Chairman
Prototype Rails [Cocoa Beach] 2016



Re: ODD STRUCTURE ON FLAT CAR

 

But it¹s all sheet metal with only one door this side, and no windows.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List
<STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2015 at 7:22 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ODD STRUCTURE ON FLAT CAR







Looks like a transfer caboose or work caboose with two outhouses. Of course
they could be tool houses or contain toxic or dangerous materials

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org <http://www.iowacentralrr.org>


Re: STL RPM 2015 - Thanks!

Clark Propst
 

Glad to hear positive reviews from RPM veterans Bill and Dave.
I am credited with being involved in the meet, but really I am not. I just complain and offer suggestions that are usually shot down. Although this year they did take my suggestion and offer a slide show Friday night for those not wishing to drive to the layout open houses. I can sit and watch slides till the wee hours, but my companions are not so inclined. After awhile we retired to the lobby for a few beers and chips and lots of BS until they threw us out.
 
I do not complain publicly about any of these events knowing a bit about what it takes to put one on. Mark Fedderson made table leg extensions for the model display tables at Naperville. Really helps get the models in front of you. I believe his idea was copied at Cocoa Beach? Because of the shear number of display tables at St Louis these extensions are impractical. Usually there are lots of chairs around so you can sit down to view the models. I am guessing that because of the growth of the event there seemed to be fewer chairs this year. Last year there was a stack of chairs at the back of the room you could grab. This year they were locked up. I found out the center charges $3 + – for each chair! Next year I am thinking of suggesting a admission hike to cover the cost of more chairs or being a folding chair of my own...
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: ODD STRUCTURE ON FLAT CAR

Benjamin Hom
 

Brian Ehni wrote:
"Any ideas?"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121728560690

This specific car isn't listed at Terry Link's NYCS Freight Car summary, but we do know that lot 712-F flat cars were converted to several different special services, including adding bulkheads, coil hoods, auto frame and steel forging racks, calcium carbide containers, and as idler flats for export diesels.
 
 
Ben Hom


Re: ODD STRUCTURE ON FLAT CAR

Douglas Harding
 

Looks like a transfer caboose or work caboose with two outhouses. Of course they could be tool houses or contain toxic or dangerous materials

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Attending RPM meets

riverman_vt@...
 

I'll try to respond to your post and a couple of others here, Tom. I have met Joe a couple of times, am happy that several of his A-Line items are available for use and found him to be a helpful and interesting fellow but one who is focused on a period of railroading in which I have no personal interest. I'm sure many of us know other hobbyists whom we feel the same way about though we respect their imput and contributions to the hobby.
I have attended the Napierville RPM Meet only once and that was now close to twenty years ago. The comments so far are all from folks who seem to feel it has declined considerably since Martin's death. Perhaps it has but other than great camaraderie the thing I most remember about Napierville was a clinic by a well known presenter who had not had the forethought to check the slides for his presentation ahead of time. The result was that many of them first hit the screen either upside down or sideways. The subject was a railroad
topic I know fairly well but am always interested in learning more about. Unfortunately the presenter, whom I
really appreciate for his enthusiasm for the topic, did not know the topic that well. Thus, after offering three 
corrections to his comments within the first fifteen minutes of his clinic I slipped out the back as quietly as 
possible rather then sound off like a "Johnny Know-it-all" or having to sit there bored to tears. Tony K. and I
were speaking of the experience within the next five minutes and, he being far more experienced with RPM
clinics than I, advised me that such things occasionally happened there!

     It is good to read that some are now approaching the organizers of such meets and offering to present
clinics. That said, however, having run two regional NMRA meets and three Special Interest Group type meets
over the years I still personally feel it is up to those trying to organize such meets to make the effort to find and recruit the best clinic presenters that they can. Nor do I feel it is that difficult based on my own experience.
Most people I have asked to present a clinic were pleased to be recognized in such a way and I cannot ever remember having been turned down. When Dave Owens first began the Collinsville, CT RPM meet some
thirteen years ago he asked if I would be interested in doing something on milk cars and trains and I was happy to do so. It was through doing so that my wife and I first met Ben & Mary Brown as Ben, whom I am sorry to report passed away suddenly on 26 July, was also presenting a clinic on milk trains. It is a subject that fascinates many of us interested in railroading in the northeast and Ben and I shared many good experiences with it over the years, including presenting clinics at the first three meets that Dave Owens organized. Bouncing back and forth between Vermont & Virginia since 2008, and with a work schedule that often prevented attendance, it is only in the last three years that I have again become a regular attendee, and clinic presenter, at the Collinsville, CT meet. Though I have not been fortunate enough to attend any of Greg Martin's Shake & Take Clinics they have appealed to me as one of the best developments to emerge from the various RPM meets. Thus I approached Dave with great trepidation before the 2014 meet to see if he thought such a clinic would be worthwhile at Collinsville. This has been my "build it and they will come" approach, which is why I was so disgusted when the first Mid-Atlantic RPM meet was scheduled in a place with very limited access and a capacity of only 35 attendees. If one is going to organize such programs my feeling is that they need to have enough faith in their efforts to use a facility large enough so that no one has to be turned away. I guess I had that faith with the thought of a "Shake & Take" clinic for Collinsville and was gratified this
past May to see a model of a New Haven RPO begun at the clinic last year completed and on display this year. Next year I will attempt such a clinic for a freight car and perhaps another passenger car as well.

     Since we now seem to be entering a period in which some are interested in RPM meets focused as they have been on the transition era for the last twenty or so years, while others want to "move ahead" into more
modern times, I would ask why we cannot have both??? Let's keep the current RPM clinics and keep them 
as they are. Those who are interested in more modern, or even contemporary, railroading can organize their
own RPM meets and focus on whatever they wish just as some of us have done with things of special interest
to some of us such as our Milk Train Meets were conducted. I have an old friend first met in 1970 who calls
often and begins to update me on all the recent happenings in New England railroading. After listening
politely for twenty minutes or more I usually interrupt him to ask why he is telling me all this. He responds by exhorting that I have always been a New England oriented railfan and should be interested in all this afterwhich
I remind him that the only good railroading left is in one's railroad room or in their head! That, in a nutshell, is how I honestly view the current scene. Thus I hope we can keep the current RPM meets as they are other
than trying to reinvigorate those in need of it. Hopefully more of us can find more time and funds to attend
them and enjoy them while we can.

Just my thoughts on a cloudy, wet morning, Don Valentine


ODD STRUCTURE ON FLAT CAR

 

Any ideas?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121728560690
<http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-York-Central-NYC-499354-War-Emergency-flat-car-
with-some-structure-5x7-photo-/121728560690?hash=item1c57966e32>


Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni


Re: Attending RPM meets

Charles Hladik
 

    It seems to me that almost all RPM's and most other gatherings are going modern because we (steam era folks) as a group are falling by the roadside due to health issues and even death. I don't give a hoot about the modern stuff but it is bringing a new generation to the hobby. They can go trackside and see their desires. Not sure why we go trackside and watch trains, but we do. Then go home and model REAL trains.
 
Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad
Virginia Division
NMRA Lifer   
 

In a message dated 8/11/2015 11:40:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

It is VERY interesting to read the comments abou the various RPM meetings.

I would be very surprised if the leaders of other RPM meetings are not taking notes.  I know that I am.

Regards,

-Jeff Al

Clinic Chairman

Prototype Rails [Cocoa Beach] 2016


Re: St Louis RPM

Bill Welch
 

So, Tim have you got a tentative title for your presentation?

Bill Welch


Re: Walthers "Gold Line" meat reefer

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Walt,

IIRC, the URTX reefers had Duryea cushion underframes. See RMJ January 2002, page 59 for an example of how this underframe could be added.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 8/12/15 1:34 AM, WaltGCox@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

 I was looking for a use for a couple of the approximately 15 year old horizontal panel side cars. They look quite close to a URTX reefer in the 37000-37974 series leased to the Milwaukee Road shown in the Morning Sun color guide. Would anyone happen to know if any cars of this type were leased to the Soo Line and whether the diagonal panel roof is correct for either road. Any comments on the type of ends  used on these models would also be appreciated.
Thanks in advance, Walt


Walthers "Gold Line" meat reefer

Walter Cox
 

 I was looking for a use for a couple of the approximately 15 year old horizontal panel side cars. They look quite close to a URTX reefer in the 37000-37974 series leased to the Milwaukee Road shown in the Morning Sun color guide. Would anyone happen to know if any cars of this type were leased to the Soo Line and whether the diagonal panel roof is correct for either road. Any comments on the type of ends  used on these models would also be appreciated.
Thanks in advance, Walt 


Re: St Louis RPM

Mikebrock
 

Tim O'Connor writes:

"But it's been what, almost 20 years, the world moves on. Lots of young modelers
who are as old NOW and we were THEN so they want to model what they saw with their
own eyes.. which means 1970+/- instead of 1950+/-"

Perhaps...and certainly I have no clue what someone is selling. However, don't sell steam TOO short. Apparently the recent reincarnation of ex-N&W 611 attracted an estimated 40,000 people to trackside in VA...very similar to what we saw when it first came out under steam. Add the similar reincarnation soon of the Santa Fe 2900 class and 4449's return not to mention others such as SR's 4501. And, of course, the totally unexpected return of Big Boy 4014 and you have to wonder. Me? I'm already reserving a room in Cheyenne for 2019.

Mike Brock

As Bill says it's incumbent on steam era guys to pay it forward -- If you have
an amazing photo collection, lots of data, or just want to talk about modeling
something you love, we've got to do it -- the clock is ticking.

Tim O'


Re: Attending RPM meets

Aley, Jeff A
 

It is VERY interesting to read the comments abou the various RPM meetings.

 

I would be very surprised if the leaders of other RPM meetings are not taking notes.  I know that I am.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff Aley

Clinic Chairman

Prototype Rails [Cocoa Beach] 2016

 


Re: St Louis RPM

Tim O'Connor
 

Before, I met Richard, Tony, Mont, Clark or anyone besides Bruce Smith, Larry Kline, and Ben Hom, my original purpose of going to Naperville was to purchase Sunshine kits.
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


lol -- to be sure -- Martin would bring thousands of kits and get cleaned
out in no time. Al Westerfield was also very active in the 1990's and early
2000's, and then Bob purchased the McCoy collection OMG !! there was a real
feeding frenzy. Not to mention our "clown car" trips to Des Plaines Hobbies.

But it's been what, almost 20 years, the world moves on. Lots of young modelers
who are as old NOW and we were THEN so they want to model what they saw with their
own eyes.. which means 1970+/- instead of 1950+/-

As Bill says it's incumbent on steam era guys to pay it forward -- If you have
an amazing photo collection, lots of data, or just want to talk about modeling
something you love, we've got to do it -- the clock is ticking.

Tim O'



Re: Attending RPM meets

Tom Madden
 

I can't imagine going to a meet and not presenting a clinic. In the give and take and Q&A of a clinic I usually learn more than I deliver. It also forces me to interact with people, which doesn't come naturally. Put me in a room full of strangers and I'll either have an anxiety attack or go off in a corner and mull projects and problems over in my mind. Drives my wife crazy.


This year I plan on being at Naperville/Lisle, mainly so I can spend a few days at the Newberry Library beforehand and then get together with (hopefully) Frank H., Pierre and Aaron, who can't make it to Cocoa Beach but with whom I'm involved in several projects. Like others, I sense the meet will eventually morph into more modern topics than I'm interested in, but that's Joe's thing. I first met him back in the 1980s when I was totally involved in Colorado narrow gauge and he was Mr. Intermodal. We had nothing in common, and (because of my reticence) nothing to talk about.


I was part of Martin's traveling circus of clinicians, presenting regularly at Naperville and at his two March meets in California (Monrovia and Pleasanton). In the course of that I met and came to know many of you. Great times. Joe has never contacted me about presenting, but I recently contacted him and asked if he'd be interested in my 'Designing for 3D Printing" clinic at N/L. He accepted with enthusiasm.


So we can't hold Joe completely responsible for the lack of steam/transition era presentations. If we all hold back our prophecies about the future of  Naperville/Lisle will be self-fulfilling.


See you there...


Tom Madden


Re: St Louis RPM

Brian Carlson
 

Before, I met Richard, Tony, Mont, Clark or anyone besides Bruce Smith, Larry Kline, and Ben Hom, my original purpose of going to Naperville was to purchase Sunshine kits.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

 

 

Pierre

I'm not sure why, but attendance at Naperville last year was the lowest
I've ever experienced -- just over 200 people. I thought it might be the
economy, and also we had recently lost Richard Hendrickson, but it was
still a good meet with good clinics -- some definitely very good. But it
does seem like St Louis is attracting a higher energy crowd -- and it is
more centrally


Re: Attending RPM meets

Dave Owens
 

Andy, et al:

I'm one of the guys who organizes the meet in Connecticut each spring. We do not intentionally focusing on modern modeling. We value all eras and would be very happy to present steam era clinics as well as modern.

If anyone has a steam-era clinic and would like to come to our meet in 2016, we'd love to have you. We thank our presenters by giving them free admission and an honorarium.

Our meet, as always, is scheduled for the weekend after Memorial Day, which in 2016 is June 3-4.

All the best,

Dave Owens


On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Stuff does not happen in a vacuum: why is attendance down for consecutive years at Naperville? I, like many others, valued Naperville for the schmoozing of a great many fellow modelers, with attending featured clinics on an available time basis.

My last visit to Naperville I saw a clinic listing as "Santa Fe into Chicago". I thought this was worth attending. Imagine my dismay when the presenter was showing an in-cab ride from Central Illinois into Chicago, complete with the pictures and narration of each train encountered, IN 2004! There wasn't even a Santa Fe at that late date. Martin would have NEVER let that occur at one of his meets. Maybe I should have read the clinic listing which had not been as important years earlier.

People generally like to go where they are comfortable. I get less and less comfortable at each succeeding  Naperville event. I believe that Joe is cool with the idea that Martin's event is morphing into a modern RPM, and as stated earlier, there are TONS of modern RPM meets across the country, which is why for every single STMFC loss at Naperville, there is less than one (modern) replacment.

I don't believe that I have any special ability to read the future, but the current eroding lower turnout for Naperville was easily predicted 4-5 years ago.

I am grateful that the spirit of Martin (and Naperville) survives in Cocoa Beach. I just wish C.B. was more centrally located. I look forward to attending my 1st St Louis meet.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

From: "fgexbill@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 6:21 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Attending RPM meets

 
I have to say that is not my experience at all at Lisle, formerly Naperville in terms of seeing more modern topics and models. As Tony and I have noted Joe does not seem to be recruiting new people of any era. That does not mean there is mediocre content, it just means it is often the "usual suspects." Hence my plea for "P(l)aying it Forward. Frankly I miss the Freight Car Content of the olden days.

I am sorry people feel driven away but then again maybe some of them could contact Joe about doing a presentation and be part of the solution.

Bill Welch






Attending RPM meets

Andy Carlson
 

Stuff does not happen in a vacuum: why is attendance down for consecutive years at Naperville? I, like many others, valued Naperville for the schmoozing of a great many fellow modelers, with attending featured clinics on an available time basis.

My last visit to Naperville I saw a clinic listing as "Santa Fe into Chicago". I thought this was worth attending. Imagine my dismay when the presenter was showing an in-cab ride from Central Illinois into Chicago, complete with the pictures and narration of each train encountered, IN 2004! There wasn't even a Santa Fe at that late date. Martin would have NEVER let that occur at one of his meets. Maybe I should have read the clinic listing which had not been as important years earlier.

People generally like to go where they are comfortable. I get less and less comfortable at each succeeding  Naperville event. I believe that Joe is cool with the idea that Martin's event is morphing into a modern RPM, and as stated earlier, there are TONS of modern RPM meets across the country, which is why for every single STMFC loss at Naperville, there is less than one (modern) replacment.

I don't believe that I have any special ability to read the future, but the current eroding lower turnout for Naperville was easily predicted 4-5 years ago.

I am grateful that the spirit of Martin (and Naperville) survives in Cocoa Beach. I just wish C.B. was more centrally located. I look forward to attending my 1st St Louis meet.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


From: "fgexbill@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2015 6:21 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Attending RPM meets

 
I have to say that is not my experience at all at Lisle, formerly Naperville in terms of seeing more modern topics and models. As Tony and I have noted Joe does not seem to be recruiting new people of any era. That does not mean there is mediocre content, it just means it is often the "usual suspects." Hence my plea for "P(l)aying it Forward. Frankly I miss the Freight Car Content of the olden days.

I am sorry people feel driven away but then again maybe some of them could contact Joe about doing a presentation and be part of the solution.

Bill Welch



Re: Attending RPM meets

Bill Welch
 

I have to say that is not my experience at all at Lisle, formerly Naperville in terms of seeing more modern topics and models. As Tony and I have noted Joe does not seem to be recruiting new people of any era. That does not mean there is mediocre content, it just means it is often the "usual suspects." Hence my plea for "P(l)aying it Forward. Frankly I miss the Freight Car Content of the olden days.

I am sorry people feel driven away but then again maybe some of them could contact Joe about doing a presentation and be part of the solution.

Bill Welch

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