Date   

Re: Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758

bill stanton
 

Thanks very much for the great info.


Now can you tell me what the assignments were for the Grand Canyon slogan on Bx-37s since Intermountain seems to be at variance with Richard's listing on those as well?




From: STMFC@... on behalf of Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 10:23 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758?
 

On Aug 17, 2015, at 6:22 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] wrote:

Intermountain sells a Santa Fe Bx-37 141758 with the Scout slogan.

According to Richard Hendrickson's painting guide this is incorrect, but there are photos in Dobyne's book on Santa Fe Boxcars that indicate Richard's list may not be 100% accurate.

Since Intermountain is usually pretty good with prototype details, I'm wondering if anyone can clear this up or best yet point me to a photo of this car?
Bill,
Pat Wider's article about Santa Fe's Bx-37 box cars published in RP CYC Vol. 25 documents the cars and the slogan assignments by using information from original Pullman stencil drawings and verifying to the greatest extent possible using builder photos supplemented with in-service photos.

Pat knew that various sources identifying the slogans for the Bx-37 box cars sometimes conflicted. He spent considerable time collecting information from many sources and using first-source material that included Pullman drawing 514-H-6, Rev. E, and numerous Pullman builder photos.

A table on p. 11 of RP CYC Vol. 25 lists the slogan assignments for the first two orders of Bx-37 box cars. The first order, lot 5652, for 2,010 cars became clear that cars in series 141301-143310 used 5 train slogans with 402 cars in numerical sequence using each one.

For your question, the second group of 402 cars, 141703-142104, had The Scout slogan, which was further verified with a builder photo of 142097. Each of the 5 builder photos taken from lot 5652, built 4-6/1941, with their respective slogans were corroborated by these car no. assignments.

The second Bx-37 order of 1,000 cars built later in 1941 followed suit but with 200 cars each.  Try as we did, the slogan assignments for the final series of 2,000 Bx-37's (145500-147499) could not be fully determined despite having builder photos and car numbers of four slogans.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins






Re: Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758

bill stanton
 

Thanks very much for the great info.


Now can you tell me what the assignments were for the Grand Canyon slogan on Bx-37s since Intermountain seems to be at variance with Richard's listing on those as well?




From: STMFC@... on behalf of Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 10:23 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758?
 

On Aug 17, 2015, at 6:22 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] wrote:

Intermountain sells a Santa Fe Bx-37 141758 with the Scout slogan.

According to Richard Hendrickson's painting guide this is incorrect, but there are photos in Dobyne's book on Santa Fe Boxcars that indicate Richard's list may not be 100% accurate.

Since Intermountain is usually pretty good with prototype details, I'm wondering if anyone can clear this up or best yet point me to a photo of this car?
Bill,
Pat Wider's article about Santa Fe's Bx-37 box cars published in RP CYC Vol. 25 documents the cars and the slogan assignments by using information from original Pullman stencil drawings and verifying to the greatest extent possible using builder photos supplemented with in-service photos.

Pat knew that various sources identifying the slogans for the Bx-37 box cars sometimes conflicted. He spent considerable time collecting information from many sources and using first-source material that included Pullman drawing 514-H-6, Rev. E, and numerous Pullman builder photos.

A table on p. 11 of RP CYC Vol. 25 lists the slogan assignments for the first two orders of Bx-37 box cars. The first order, lot 5652, for 2,010 cars became clear that cars in series 141301-143310 used 5 train slogans with 402 cars in numerical sequence using each one.

For your question, the second group of 402 cars, 141703-142104, had The Scout slogan, which was further verified with a builder photo of 142097. Each of the 5 builder photos taken from lot 5652, built 4-6/1941, with their respective slogans were corroborated by these car no. assignments.

The second Bx-37 order of 1,000 cars built later in 1941 followed suit but with 200 cars each.  Try as we did, the slogan assignments for the final series of 2,000 Bx-37's (145500-147499) could not be fully determined despite having builder photos and car numbers of four slogans.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins






Re: Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758

bill stanton
 

Thanks very much for the great info.


Now can you tell me what the assignments were for the Grand Canyon slogan on Bx-37s since Intermountain seems to be at variance with Richard's listing on those as well?




From: STMFC@... on behalf of Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 10:23 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758?
 

On Aug 17, 2015, at 6:22 PM, bill_stanton60@... [STMFC] wrote:

Intermountain sells a Santa Fe Bx-37 141758 with the Scout slogan.

According to Richard Hendrickson's painting guide this is incorrect, but there are photos in Dobyne's book on Santa Fe Boxcars that indicate Richard's list may not be 100% accurate.

Since Intermountain is usually pretty good with prototype details, I'm wondering if anyone can clear this up or best yet point me to a photo of this car?
Bill,
Pat Wider's article about Santa Fe's Bx-37 box cars published in RP CYC Vol. 25 documents the cars and the slogan assignments by using information from original Pullman stencil drawings and verifying to the greatest extent possible using builder photos supplemented with in-service photos.

Pat knew that various sources identifying the slogans for the Bx-37 box cars sometimes conflicted. He spent considerable time collecting information from many sources and using first-source material that included Pullman drawing 514-H-6, Rev. E, and numerous Pullman builder photos.

A table on p. 11 of RP CYC Vol. 25 lists the slogan assignments for the first two orders of Bx-37 box cars. The first order, lot 5652, for 2,010 cars became clear that cars in series 141301-143310 used 5 train slogans with 402 cars in numerical sequence using each one.

For your question, the second group of 402 cars, 141703-142104, had The Scout slogan, which was further verified with a builder photo of 142097. Each of the 5 builder photos taken from lot 5652, built 4-6/1941, with their respective slogans were corroborated by these car no. assignments.

The second Bx-37 order of 1,000 cars built later in 1941 followed suit but with 200 cars each.  Try as we did, the slogan assignments for the final series of 2,000 Bx-37's (145500-147499) could not be fully determined despite having builder photos and car numbers of four slogans.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins






Re: GASO What Railroad Might it Be

lstt100
 

Boxcar loading of coal at Duluth was still taking place in 1974, well beyond the scope of the list.  Most was being shipped to smaller lumber yards in Northern Minnesota.

Dan Holbrook


Re: National B-1 trucks

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

George,

WP GB gondolas 6501-6600 built in 1945 had B-1 trucks. Proto 2000 offered this car, though B-1 trucks were not included in the early kits. I don't know about later runs.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 8/17/15 9:34 PM, gsc3@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

  Tonight I found 4 pari of National B=1 trucks I didn't know I had. I'm modeling 1953.  My memory says the N&W and PRR used these under 52' gons.  Anyone suggest another two good prospects for these trucks as of 1953?  And if the N&W and PRR gons are incorrect, I welcomed being better informed.


Thanks,

George Courtney



Re: MILWAUKEE 50' RIB ISDE BOXCARS

Ed Hawkins
 

On Aug 17, 2015, at 1:06 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE PARDIEW001@HAWAII.RR.COM [STMFC] wrote:

Last week I solicited photo help on a 50' Milwaukee short rib side boxcar. Once again
a very gracious member of the list responded with a photo. The car number 16290 is
just right for the time period that my friend models in. I do not, however, see this number
referenced in the chart of the rib sided boxcars in the RP CYC #13. Does this car
represent a renumbering?
Bill,
The Jan. 1959 ORER listed renumbered MILW 50' box & auto cars in various small groups in the 16xxx series, including a new entry for 16275-16296. Modifications to these 22 cars were actually still in the works as the 1/59 ORER had "...." in the quantity column. A note indicated these cars had DF Loaders. Many more renumbered 50' box & auto cars followed soon thereafter, mostly small groups of less than 10 cars.

Pat Wider and I saw no point to include all of these renumbered cars in the roster mainly because we lacked definitive documentation on the original series the renumbered cars were coming from.

By Oct. 1960 and nearing the end point of this discussion group, the ORER listed roughly a half page of renumbered MILW 50' steel box & auto cars. A different note applied to 16275-16296 in 10/60 that specified the cars had specially equipped interiors and were not suitable for general service.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: red caboose rr-38540/UP #474095 question

Matthew Metoyer
 

I also have one of these Red Caboose cars. Do I understand correctly that class A-50-16 is a 40 foot double door automobile box car? I wonder if the class is actually correct and we should renumber the car to match the class, rather than re-class the car and leave the number alone.

Matthew Metoyer


---In STMFC@..., <ron.merrick@...> wrote :

There's a very good chance this is an error. 

This class was built as A-50-16 (A for Automobile), and apparently carried that class until disposition, unlike for instance the first RBL cars on UP.  The class did get renumbered in 1955 from 474000-474499 to the 175000-175499 series.

The B-50-21 (B for Box) class, 184000-185899, was essentially the 1937 AAR 10'0" high car with square corner 5-4 ends, but with some special UP touches like the route card holder being located on the bolster tab instead of the door, and some other less visible ones.  They did not have ACR sides though the A-50-16 did.

Above from 'Union Pacific Freight Cars, 1936-1951' by Terry Metcalfe.  My copy is bloodstained from the model railroad accident I had on July 4, not sure of the year but around 1995.  In the evening I was doing touchup paint on something at my workbench, and I used a large pair of pliers to try to open a bottle of Floquil paint that had gotten stuck shut with dried paint.  The lid did not yield, but instead the bottle broke, the boxcar red (not UP oxide red) got all over my hands along with the blood, so actually it may be a mix of blood and paint on the book.  When my wife took me to the ER, the nurses tried several times to use alcohol and any cleaning agent they had to wipe the sticky red stains off my hands and kept being frustrated and not understanding why that red stain wouldn't come off.  Let's just say I missed the fireworks displays that evening.

Ron Merrick


Re: Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758

Ed Hawkins
 

On Aug 17, 2015, at 6:22 PM, bill_stanton60@hotmail.com [STMFC] wrote:

Intermountain sells a Santa Fe Bx-37 141758 with the Scout slogan.

According to Richard Hendrickson's painting guide this is incorrect, but there are photos in Dobyne's book on Santa Fe Boxcars that indicate Richard's list may not be 100% accurate.

Since Intermountain is usually pretty good with prototype details, I'm wondering if anyone can clear this up or best yet point me to a photo of this car?
Bill,
Pat Wider's article about Santa Fe's Bx-37 box cars published in RP CYC Vol. 25 documents the cars and the slogan assignments by using information from original Pullman stencil drawings and verifying to the greatest extent possible using builder photos supplemented with in-service photos.

Pat knew that various sources identifying the slogans for the Bx-37 box cars sometimes conflicted. He spent considerable time collecting information from many sources and using first-source material that included Pullman drawing 514-H-6, Rev. E, and numerous Pullman builder photos.

A table on p. 11 of RP CYC Vol. 25 lists the slogan assignments for the first two orders of Bx-37 box cars. The first order, lot 5652, for 2,010 cars became clear that cars in series 141301-143310 used 5 train slogans with 402 cars in numerical sequence using each one.

For your question, the second group of 402 cars, 141703-142104, had The Scout slogan, which was further verified with a builder photo of 142097. Each of the 5 builder photos taken from lot 5652, built 4-6/1941, with their respective slogans were corroborated by these car no. assignments.

The second Bx-37 order of 1,000 cars built later in 1941 followed suit but with 200 cars each. Try as we did, the slogan assignments for the final series of 2,000 Bx-37's (145500-147499) could not be fully determined despite having builder photos and car numbers of four slogans.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: GASO What Railroad Might it Be

np328
 

     Up north here in the northern climes, coal carried by boxcar did last longer. Take a look at the files and the directive for the return of empties I transcribed from an NP document of Jan 1, 1960. This lists coal in rough boxcars.
     From everything that I have researched and found prior, the customer could request coal delivery via hopper, gon, or boxcar. And from letters detailing internal follow ups, they did reject the load at times if improperly sent causing much angst.
 The document is found in the files under: Return mty's via doc.                           Jim Dick  - St. Paul


Re: Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758

bill stanton
 

on page 189 of Dobyne's book is a photo

 of 142097 with the scout slogan since no repaint date I believe its original.

hence my confusion




From: STMFC@... on behalf of Allan Smith smithal9@... [STMFC]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 6:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758?
 
 

Per the ATSF  website the following Bx-37 had the scout slogan 141300-141700 & 143311-143510. it is possible that at repainting the cars could have had the scout slogan added because the shop didn't have any other slogans or the other slogans had beeb damaged.

Al smith Sonora, Ca


Re: Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758

bill stanton
 

on page 189 of Dobyne's book is a photo

 of 142097 with the scout slogan since no repaint date I believe its original.

hence my confusion


From: STMFC@... on behalf of Allan Smith smithal9@... [STMFC]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 6:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758?
 
 

Per the ATSF  website the following Bx-37 had the scout slogan 141300-141700 & 143311-143510. it is possible that at repainting the cars could have had the scout slogan added because the shop didn't have any other slogans or the other slogans had beeb damaged.

Al smith Sonora, Ca


Re: GASO What Railroad Might it Be

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <drgwrail@...> wrote :

My guess it was CASO...for Canada Sotuhern.

Coal was very commonly carried in box cars for those customers that did not have a coal dock for bottom dumping. Pretty much was gone by end of WW2
===================

It may have lasted somewhat longer at the head of the lakes, because North Dakota lignite, being just one step removed from peat, doesn't weather well, and was typically carried in boxcars. That may have set the handling preference for a lot of small customers.

I seem to recall That C. Reiss in Duluth had equipment to load lake coal into boxcars well after WWII. Koppers loaded coke in boxcars. A few years after the end of the era of interest of this list Koppers apparently retired their boxcar loader;the Soo Line was convinced to rebuild several box and stock cars as roofless coke cars, to serve customers that still wanted to wheel the load out the door.

Dennis Storzek



Re: National B-1 trucks

John Barry
 

Numerous Santa Fe cars including several series of Bx-37

John Barry


From: SUVCWORR@... [STMFC] ;
To: ;
Subject: Re: [STMFC] National B-1 trucks
Sent: Tue, Aug 18, 2015 1:51:01 AM

 

George,

PRR used the following National trucks based on a PRR typed list of truck classes and classes of cars to which applies.  You can find the list at http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRFreightCarTrucks.html

National (no designation with plank)  X29, X37, X37a 
National (no designation plankless) X29, X37, X37a
National A-1 G26, G30
National B-1 X41, X41b
National C-1 G32, G33, G37, X43a

Rich Orr



Re: National B-1 trucks

SUVCWORR@...
 

George,

PRR used the following National trucks based on a PRR typed list of truck classes and classes of cars to which applies.  You can find the list at http://prr.railfan.net/freight/PRRFreightCarTrucks.html

National (no designation with plank)  X29, X37, X37a 
National (no designation plankless) X29, X37, X37a
National A-1 G26, G30
National B-1 X41, X41b
National C-1 G32, G33, G37, X43a

Rich Orr


Re: Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758

Allan Smith
 

Per the ATSF  website the following Bx-37 had the scout slogan 141300-141700 & 143311-143510. it is possible that at repainting the cars could have had the scout slogan added because the shop didn't have any other slogans or the other slogans had beeb damaged.

Al smith Sonora, Ca


National B-1 trucks

George Courtney
 

  Tonight I found 4 pari of National B=1 trucks I didn't know I had. I'm modeling 1953.  My memory says the N&W and PRR used these under 52' gons.  Anyone suggest another two good prospects for these trucks as of 1953?  And if the N&W and PRR gons are incorrect, I welcomed being better informed.


Thanks,

George Courtney


Re: Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758

George Hollwedel
 

After looking at the Intermountain website and my Santa Fe lettering book, its seems that all the Scout and Grand Canyon numbers are reversed. My bet would be on Richard being right.
 
Prototype N Scale Models (TM)
by George Hollwedel
2108 Buffalo Tundra Dr
Austin, TX 78754-5960
512-579-0539
http://special.micro-trainsline.com/georgehollwedelmain
http://www.atlasrr.com/special.htm
http://intermountain-railway.com/n/sr/nsr.htm
http://www.bluford-shops.com/bluford_93_014.htm



From: "bill_stanton60@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 6:22 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758?



Intermountain sells a Santa Fe Bx-37 141758 with the Scout slogan.

According to Richard Hendrickson's painting guide this is incorrect, but there are photos in Dobyne's book on Santa Fe Boxcars that indicate Richard's list may not be 100% accurate.

Since Intermountain is usually pretty good with prototype details, I'm wondering if anyone can clear this up or best yet point me to a photo of this car?

Thanks in advance





Scout slogan on Santa Fe Bx-37 #141758

bill stanton
 

Intermountain sells a Santa Fe Bx-37 141758 with the Scout slogan.


According to Richard Hendrickson's painting guide this is incorrect, but there are photos in Dobyne's book on Santa Fe Boxcars that indicate Richard's list may not be 100% accurate.


Since Intermountain is usually pretty good with prototype details, I'm wondering if anyone can clear this up or best yet point me to a photo of this car?


Thanks in advance


Re: Roster of UTLX Cars circa Jan 1952

John Hile
 

Buddy,

Thanks for sharing this.  It is appreciated!

John Hile
Blacksburg VA


Re: GASO What Railroad Might it Be

drgwrail
 

My guess it was CASO...for Canada Sotuhern.

Coal was very commonly carried in box cars for those customers that did not have a coal dock for bottom dumping. Pretty much was gone by end of WW2

Chuck Yungkurth
Louisville CO


56141 - 56160 of 192656