Date   

Re: Champ Decals Shortcomings

Schuyler Larrabee
 

 

 

That happens with some decoders now . . . usually only once, though.

 

Schuyler

 

 

Sure, like someday we'll have "real digital" smoke someday.

 

Tom Casey 

We do have machines that 3d print in full color.

 

As of today, they do not have the required resolution we need for scale model lettering…….. or NBW-rivet detail.

 

Some tomorrow to come, we will have that as well.

 

Sometime after that, we will have perfect scale models of accurate scale materials. But you won’t be able to handle them at all without damaging them.

 

Best to ya,

Mike Bauers

Milwaukee, Wi

 

On Aug 31, 2015, at 10:23 PM, Charles Peck wrote:

 

By the way, I do know one way to do the lettering without decal film.

You put the model into your little 3D printing machine, align the laser

marks, and print the lettering right in place on the car.  No, I don't have

that machine. But I bet someone will try.

Chuck Peck in FL

 

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Charles Peck   <lnnrr152@...>  wrote:

The technology in the hobby has advanced by leaps and bounds.  It's not going to

stop advancing tomorrow. In 25 years some of us, probably not me, will be seeing

advances hard to imagine today.  

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2015 9:44 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Champ Decals Shortcomings

 

We do have machines that 3d print in full color.

 

As of today, they do not have the required resolution we need for scale model lettering…….. or NBW-rivet detail.

 

Some tomorrow to come, we will have that as well.

 

Sometime after that, we will have perfect scale models of accurate scale materials. But you won’t be able to handle them at all without damaging them.

 

Best to ya,

Mike Bauers

Milwaukee, Wi

 

On Aug 31, 2015, at 10:23 PM, Charles Peck wrote:

 

By the way, I do know one way to do the lettering without decal film.

You put the model into your little 3D printing machine, align the laser

marks, and print the lettering right in place on the car.  No, I don't have

that machine. But I bet someone will try.

Chuck Peck in FL

 

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Charles Peck   <lnnrr152@...>  wrote:

The technology in the hobby has advanced by leaps and bounds.  It's not going to

stop advancing tomorrow. In 25 years some of us, probably not me, will be seeing

advances hard to imagine today.  

 

………………..


Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

O Fenton Wells
 

One other note I ran into Tichy at the Raleigh train show recently and he is producing decals in HO.  He has several 'Stock" sets on his website to support his kits and told me he would be willing to do other sets if I provided a good photo or art work.  You might try him.  I purchased a set of his UTLX tank car decals and they look very nice.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 11:41 AM, ajfergus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Jerry & Tom provided a service to many and will be missed. 

Champ had 1000s of sets. Some of the artwork was done 50 years ago. You'll never see stock like that again. 
But if you want to see what one guy can produce go to my new web site:

And yes I can custom print most of the HO in S. 
Allen Ferguson

 

 




--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

O Fenton Wells
 

I have worked with Blackcat and the decals are very nice and they are excellent to work with.

--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: LV 63000 (or any LV 40' red boxcar)

Layout Tour
 

Ron,

            The tackboards of the 6300’s were in the middle of the door and centered when built in 1950.  The 7” and 9” road name lettering on box cars was standard until 1955 when 12” lettering was introduced.  Dan Hicks (dhickstrains@...) has some decal sets for boxcars with the larger lettering.  I don’t know when the tack boards were lowered, but I think that corresponded with the lowering of brake wheels during the 60’s.

 

Chuck Davis

Norfolk VA


Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

Allen Ferguson
 

Jerry & Tom provided a service to many and will be missed. 
Champ had 1000s of sets. Some of the artwork was done 50 years ago. You'll never see stock like that again. 
But if you want to see what one guy can produce go to my new web site:

And yes I can custom print most of the HO in S. 
Allen Ferguson

 

 


Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

Tim O'Connor
 

Didn't someone recently mention they had acquired Jerry's decal artwork?

Tim O'Connor

That the accuracy of "today's best decals" eclipses that of CHAMP is true. The problem is that the loss of Jerry Glow and Tom Stolte leaves me wondering where "today's best decals" may be found. I model in S scale so the problem is acute for me. Both Jerry Glow and Tom Stolte were willing to produce their product in S and to do it at a reasonable price. It is unfortunate that, as far as I know, no one has purchased the art work from Jerry or Tom. That would be a step in the right direction.


Tom Baker


Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

mwbauers
 

I never suggested which printers do the better job, nor that they all can print on decal paper; only that the standard digital decal set can be printed from any of them.

Suggesting that some do it better than others, while all can print from those files.

I'd need to tell you that an article in MR about 1999 where they used an Epson photo printer to full body decal a BN caboose with copious amounts of photo captured graffiti was completely successful.

You may need the printer setting they used in that article to successful print decals on an Epson photo printer. They custom set the print setting on it.

I can pull it up from the MR DVD if you'd like to have those directions and try it with a small test decal.

There is also a test trick used by the Alps printers with print on laser-print decal stock.

They test print proofs on quality laser print paper like Hammermill Laser print paper. That paper prints just like the laser decal paper. That paper seems to be a paper weight photo-quality print media as well. So you should find it useful for photos as well.

I use the stuff and those are my views of the Hammermill laser paper.

I'll boot up the article in a few minutes and see what type of decal paper they used. There are technical differences between ink-jet decal paper and (standard) laser print decal paper. I need to see which type of decal media they used.

I can report back with those print settings and type of decal paper used.

Mike Bauers


On Sep 1, 2015, at 3:36 AM, "Garth Groff > wrote:

 

Mike,

No, not all printers can made decals. Epson ink-jet inks never dry on decal paper, at least not on Microscale's paper, which is the only one I had access to when I tried. It make a sticky mess that ran all over the paper and got on the rollers in my machine.

Other brands of printers might have worked, but since I needed this expensive printer for photographs, I couldn't simply replace it for a few decals.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

 

On 8/31/15 9:42 PM, Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC] wrote (in part):
 
. . . Any computer printer can generate the decal set from that digital art-work.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi



Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

tyesac@...
 

Probably the best hope is for short run projects researched, sponsored, developed and marketed through the hobby via cooperation betwen any specific historical society and a custom decal printer.  I think the days of having a broad in -stock selection of decals is waning.   Even as far as the mini-kit concept that Martin Lofton offered via Sunshine Models.
 
Tom Casey 
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: aschneiderjr@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2015 9:05 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

 
Today's best decals have an uneven coverage of steam era roads, even major ones like NYC. As to aging, I have successfully applied Champ decals from a package giving the address as Cleveland 2, Ohio - probably 1950s.

Alex Schneider
 

From: "asychis@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 6:56 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?



Compared to the quality and accuracy of today's best decals, buying Champs' stock would be akin to buying Lionel's "Prototypically Correct Paint Schemes" handbook for half a million dollars. By the way, don't the owners know that those decals are "aging?" 
 
Jerry Michels





Re: Champ Decals Shortcomings

Alexander Schneider Jr
 


The recent BLI sound-equipped stock cars seemed to be a milestone to me. "Moo, moo", "oink, oink" and whatever sound mules make.

Now to get an old-time version with horse sounds, which I'll consign to the army, c/o General Custer...

Alex Schneider
 


From: "tyesac@... [STMFC]" To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Champ Decals Shortcomings



Sure, like someday we'll have "real digital" smoke someday.
 
Tom Casey 
We do have machines that 3d print in full color.

As of today, they do not have the required resolution we need for scale model lettering…….. or NBW-rivet detail.

Some tomorrow to come, we will have that as well.

Sometime after that, we will have perfect scale models of accurate scale materials. But you won’t be able to handle them at all without damaging them.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Aug 31, 2015, at 10:23 PM, Charles Peck wrote:

By the way, I do know one way to do the lettering without decal film.
You put the model into your little 3D printing machine, align the laser
marks, and print the lettering right in place on the car.  No, I don't have
that machine. But I bet someone will try.
Chuck Peck in FL

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Charles Peck   <lnnrr152@...>  wrote:
The technology in the hobby has advanced by leaps and bounds.  It's not going to
stop advancing tomorrow. In 25 years some of us, probably not me, will be seeing
advances hard to imagine today.  

 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2015 9:44 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Champ Decals Shortcomings

 
We do have machines that 3d print in full color.

As of today, they do not have the required resolution we need for scale model lettering…….. or NBW-rivet detail.

Some tomorrow to come, we will have that as well.

Sometime after that, we will have perfect scale models of accurate scale materials. But you won’t be able to handle them at all without damaging them.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Aug 31, 2015, at 10:23 PM, Charles Peck wrote:

By the way, I do know one way to do the lettering without decal film.
You put the model into your little 3D printing machine, align the laser
marks, and print the lettering right in place on the car.  No, I don't have
that machine. But I bet someone will try.
Chuck Peck in FL

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Charles Peck   <lnnrr152@...>  wrote:
The technology in the hobby has advanced by leaps and bounds.  It's not going to
stop advancing tomorrow. In 25 years some of us, probably not me, will be seeing
advances hard to imagine today.  

………………..





Re: Champ Decals Shortcomings

tyesac@...
 

Sure, like someday we'll have "real digital" smoke someday.
 
Tom Casey 
We do have machines that 3d print in full color.

As of today, they do not have the required resolution we need for scale model lettering…….. or NBW-rivet detail.

Some tomorrow to come, we will have that as well.

Sometime after that, we will have perfect scale models of accurate scale materials. But you won’t be able to handle them at all without damaging them.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Aug 31, 2015, at 10:23 PM, Charles Peck wrote:

By the way, I do know one way to do the lettering without decal film.
You put the model into your little 3D printing machine, align the laser
marks, and print the lettering right in place on the car.  No, I don't have
that machine. But I bet someone will try.
Chuck Peck in FL

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Charles Peck   <lnnrr152@...>  wrote:
The technology in the hobby has advanced by leaps and bounds.  It's not going to
stop advancing tomorrow. In 25 years some of us, probably not me, will be seeing
advances hard to imagine today.  

 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Sep 1, 2015 9:44 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Champ Decals Shortcomings

 
We do have machines that 3d print in full color.

As of today, they do not have the required resolution we need for scale model lettering…….. or NBW-rivet detail.

Some tomorrow to come, we will have that as well.

Sometime after that, we will have perfect scale models of accurate scale materials. But you won’t be able to handle them at all without damaging them.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Aug 31, 2015, at 10:23 PM, Charles Peck wrote:

By the way, I do know one way to do the lettering without decal film.
You put the model into your little 3D printing machine, align the laser
marks, and print the lettering right in place on the car.  No, I don't have
that machine. But I bet someone will try.
Chuck Peck in FL

On Mon, Aug 31, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Charles Peck   <lnnrr152@...>  wrote:
The technology in the hobby has advanced by leaps and bounds.  It's not going to
stop advancing tomorrow. In 25 years some of us, probably not me, will be seeing
advances hard to imagine today.  

………………..


Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

Alexander Schneider Jr
 

Today's best decals have an uneven coverage of steam era roads, even major ones like NYC. As to aging, I have successfully applied Champ decals from a package giving the address as Cleveland 2, Ohio - probably 1950s.

Alex Schneider
 


From: "asychis@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 6:56 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?



Compared to the quality and accuracy of today's best decals, buying Champs' stock would be akin to buying Lionel's "Prototypically Correct Paint Schemes" handbook for half a million dollars. By the way, don't the owners know that those decals are "aging?" 
 
Jerry Michels





Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

hubert mask
 

Mr Baker I offer S scale decals on my website    I am limited to the prototypes offered. 

Hubert Mask

Mask Island Decals Inc.


On Sep 1, 2015, at 8:14 AM, Thomas Baker bakert@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

That the accuracy of "today's best decals" eclipses that of CHAMP is true.  The problem is that the loss of Jerry Glow and Tom Stolte leaves me wondering where "today's best decals" may be found.  I model in S scale so the problem is acute for me.  Both Jerry Glow and Tom Stolte were willing to produce their product in S and to do it at a reasonable price.  It is unfortunate that, as far as I know, no one has purchased the art work from Jerry or Tom.  That would be a step in the right direction.  


Tom Baker


From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of asychis@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:56 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?
 


Compared to the quality and accuracy of today's best decals, buying Champs' stock would be akin to buying Lionel's "Prototypically Correct Paint Schemes" handbook for half a million dollars. By the way, don't the owners know that those decals are "aging?" 
 
Jerry Michels



Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

Thomas Baker
 

That the accuracy of "today's best decals" eclipses that of CHAMP is true.  The problem is that the loss of Jerry Glow and Tom Stolte leaves me wondering where "today's best decals" may be found.  I model in S scale so the problem is acute for me.  Both Jerry Glow and Tom Stolte were willing to produce their product in S and to do it at a reasonable price.  It is unfortunate that, as far as I know, no one has purchased the art work from Jerry or Tom.  That would be a step in the right direction.  


Tom Baker


From: STMFC@... on behalf of asychis@... [STMFC] Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2015 7:56 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?
 


Compared to the quality and accuracy of today's best decals, buying Champs' stock would be akin to buying Lionel's "Prototypically Correct Paint Schemes" handbook for half a million dollars. By the way, don't the owners know that those decals are "aging?" 
 
Jerry Michels



Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

asychis@...
 

Compared to the quality and accuracy of today's best decals, buying Champs' stock would be akin to buying Lionel's "Prototypically Correct Paint Schemes" handbook for half a million dollars. By the way, don't the owners know that those decals are "aging?" 
 
Jerry Michels


Re: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Mike,

No, not all printers can made decals. Epson ink-jet inks never dry on decal paper, at least not on Microscale's paper, which is the only one I had access to when I tried. It make a sticky mess that ran all over the paper and got on the rollers in my machine.

Other brands of printers might have worked, but since I needed this expensive printer for photographs, I couldn't simply replace it for a few decals.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

 

On 8/31/15 9:42 PM, Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC] wrote (in part):

 
. . . Any computer printer can generate the decal set from that digital art-work.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi



Re: Rapido announced a NP 10000 series boxcar

np328
 

Thanks for the nice words, Don.
To speed along your research of the Milwaukee, I'd suggest you join the Milw Yahoo list at

<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MILW/info>


 And then look for the posts of Michael Sol. Once on there, you should be able to search for all of his posts.

Very informative, very well written posts, by a man once employed inside the Milwaukee Road.   

 Post 81497 on that list should provide a great start.  And do not miss going to the links on post 81638

                                                                                                                                    Jim Dick     




Re: Oregon lumber traffic

Tim O'Connor
 

I don't know but wasn't there someone on STMFC a while ago who had
a bunch conductor's reports at Klamath Falls for the GN ? That might
provide some hard data.

Tim O'

Just curious. Since there came a LOT of lumber out of Oregon, just how many carloads per week would this 'only 10% over the Inside Gateway' have been?
Fred Jansz


Re: Oregon lumber traffic

Fred Jansz
 

Just curious. Since there came a LOT of lumber out of Oregon, just how many carloads per week would this 'only 10% over the Inside Gateway' have been?
Fred Jansz


Re: Champ Decals Shortcomings

Charlie Vlk
 

IIRC the Champ decals looked good in the 60s because the Walthers were so bad.  Of course one could find bits in both lines that worked. 
Miller started making better sets as did MicroScale and we started demanding mo betta lettering. 
The advent of computer graphics really accelerated the production of accurate specific decals.....and decorated kits and RTR stuff.
It didn't happen all that long ago...just two decades since desktops started to be common!
Charlie Vlk

On Aug 31, 2015, at 9:37 PM, "Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:











Re: Champ Decals Shortcomings

Tim O'Connor
 

Andy

Certainly, progress came in fits and starts. And there's still a lot of bad art
being produced. But Rich Meyer did get "religion" and by the 1990's began to make
some really high quality decals -- not just the Super sets (SHS) and the Blueprint
sets (BRH) but also many ordinary sets like the many special data (HD) sets that
Bill mentioned. Rich produced a small number of improved tank car decals, but it's
a shame he never redid the artwork for all those beautiful chemical tank cars from
Dupont, Firestone, Dow, etc etc. Also, Champ heralds (HH) were often the best available
from anyone -- and without his roadname sets (HN) it would be impossible to easily
letter many fallen flag railroads.

Tim O'



Tim O'Connor wrote about champion Decals: ..... "(B)ut considering that 80%
of the art doesn't meet present day standards of accuracy/fidelity to
the prototype(.)"

As a budding Prototype modeler in the 1980s, I had a project of backdating an Athearn 4-bay 5000 cu ft ACF Centerflow covered hopper into a high-brakewheel 3-bay 4650 Centerflow. The Champ set specific to this car was horrible in its portrayal of the lettering. Fortunately with laser B&W printers I was able to blow up a side view photo and make a black decal on Walthers decal paper in the laser printer. The Champ decals didn't meet the then standards of accuracy!

"Present day standards" did not occur overnight and just fairly recently. Folks like Richard Zenk, Richard Hendricskson The East Coast RPI guys and dozens of others popularized prototype modeling and many great efforts blossomed forth.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

58441 - 58460 of 195354