Date   

Re: Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim,

I'm thinking that the phrase means that PGE cars were to be routed to direct connections and no further. If so, you would be unlikely to see a PGE car in California during our era. Instead, the PGE would likely have provided their shipper a car from a connecting Canadian road.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/2/15 7:28 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
 


Says that in 1959 as well ... but if you really think about that statement,
wouldn't it be TRUE for almost all railroads? I mean, could you have freight
cars used in switching services only with INDIRECT connections? Could you
have freight cars NOT used in switching services at all? If so, how would you
move them -- teleportation? What about leased cars?

The line is gone by 1963, if not earlier.

Tim O'Connor




Doug, Greg and Friends,

The PG&E page of my 1958 ORER still says "Freight cars owned are used only in switching services with direct connections."

Garth Groff




AB brakes

ed_mines
 

Speaking of AB brake sets I'd like to buy some of the old Cal Scale sets or something similar.


Bowser sells the Cal Scale sets for about $5 each last I looked and they charge a lot for shipping.


I have problems assembling the Tichy AB brake components (old age and fat. fingers).  I don't mind paying $3 for the set and Tichy charges all of $3 for shipping. They are lightening fast too.


Maybe someone could bring this up to Tichy?


Ed Mines


Re: Pacific Great Eastern freight cars in the US in the 1950s (offshoot

greg kennelly
 

Thanks to Bob Hanmer and Barry Bennett who, off list, provided me with information that the statement "Freight Cars owned are used only in Switching Service with direct connections" appeared in the Pacific Great Eastern ORER entries as late as July 1959 but disappeared some time before an unspecified month in 1963 (beyond the cut-off date for this list).

Thanks also to Tim O'Connor who sent me a copy of the photograph of PGE 4220 (BLT 1-58) in Los Angeles in the late 1950s (actually, I believe, some time after June 1960 - the repack stencil looks like "RPKD PGE, NV 6-26-60"). However, as many of us know, it was the rarities rather than the common occurences that tended to be photographed. I will, therefore, stick with my statement that, in the time frame of this list, the appearance of a PGE freight car in the U.S. would be a relative rarity.

Cheers,
Greg Kennelly,
Burnaby, BC


Re: Oregon lumber traffic

Larry Rice
 

Greetings,

Freight traffic to, from, and via the SP&S and especially its Oregon Electric Willamette Valley lines has been an intense interest of mine for over 15 years. I offer the following information for those who are interested in lumber and plywood shipments originating in the Willamette Valley. Carloads of lumber and plywood originating on Oregon Electric served Willamette Valley points during 1960 and 1961 with general routings and regional destinations are shown below. The information comes from SP&S Traffic Department monthly and annual traffic reports owned by the SP&S Historical Society and housed at the Pacific Northwest Railroad Archives.


For the Oregon Electric excluding the Forest Grove branch during 1960…
Total lumber carloads originating - 10,932.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S and the Pasco NP, Scribner/Yardley NP, or Spokane GN gateways - 7,993.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S GN WP route – 600.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and GN – 81.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and NP – 63.
Carloads interchanged to the SP at Lebanon or Eugene – 134.
Calif., Ariz., Nevada, and Utah destinations via SP&S GN WP – 848.
Northwest destinations via the SP&S – 843.
Northwest destinations via the GN – 191.
Northwest destinations via the NP – 179.


For the Oregon Electric excluding the Forest Grove branch during 1961…
Total lumber carloads originating – 11,160.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S and the Pasco NP, Scribner/Yardley NP, or Spokane GN gateways – 7,596.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S GN WP route – 773.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and GN – 102.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and NP – 93.
Carloads interchanged to the SP at Lebanon or Eugene – 269.
Calif., Ariz., Nevada, and Utah destinations via SP&S GN WP – 1,153.
Northwest destinations via the SP&S – 775.
Northwest destinations via the GN – 211.
Northwest destinations via the NP – 188.


For the Oregon Electric excluding the Forest Grove branch during 1961…
Total Plywood carloads originating – 11,847.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S and the Pasco NP, Scribner/Yardley NP, or Spokane GN gateways – 9,603.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S GN WP route – 224.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and GN – 49.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and NP – 107.
Carloads interchanged to the SP at Lebanon or Eugene – 33.
Calif., Ariz., Nevada, and Utah destinations via SP&S GN WP – 415.
Northwest destinations via the SP&S – 438.
Northwest destinations via the GN – 251.
Northwest destinations via the NP – 727.

The same information is available for each station on the Oregon Electric, an example is provided below…

For all mills in Eugene for 1960…
Total lumber carloads originating – 3,526.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S and the Pasco NP, Scribner/Yardley NP, or Spokane GN gateways – 2,283. 
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S GN WP route – 255.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and GN – 11.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and NP – 6.
Carloads interchanged to the SP at Lebanon or Eugene – 1.
Calif., Ariz., Nevada, and Utah destinations via SP&S GN WP – 286.
Northwest destinations via the SP&S – 514.
Northwest destinations via the GN – 76.
Northwest destinations via the NP – 94.

The same information is available for each mill on the OE, a pair of examples are included below…

For Cuddeback Lumber Co. in Eugene for 1961…
Total lumber carloads originating – 579.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S and the Pasco NP, Scribner/Yardley NP, or Spokane GN gateways – 241. 
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S GN WP route – 109.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and GN – 0.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and NP – 2.
Carloads interchanged to the SP at Lebanon or Eugene – 0.
Calif., Ariz., Nevada, and Utah destinations via SP&S GN WP – 112.
Northwest destinations via the SP&S – 82.
Northwest destinations via the GN – 20.
Northwest destinations via the NP – 13.

For Bauman Lumber Co. in Waterloo Oregon (Santiam branch) for 1961…
Total lumber carloads originating – 1857.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S and the Pasco NP, Scribner/Yardley NP, or Spokane GN gateways – 1380. 
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S GN WP route – 52.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and GN – 38.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and NP – 11.
Carloads interchanged to the SP at Lebanon or Eugene – 33.
Calif., Ariz., Nevada, and Utah destinations via SP&S GN WP – 267.
Northwest destinations via the SP&S – 39.
Northwest destinations via the GN – 32.
Northwest destinations via the NP – 5.

------
A few notes… The total lumber or plywood carloads from the OE in the Willamette Valley routed via the inside gateway would be the total of the third and seventh lines in the examples above. Northwest destinations are defined in this data as points in Washington, Oregon, British Columbia, Idaho, extreme western Montana and southwestern Alberta. Transcontinental destinations are all points east of the identified Northwest destinations but DO NOT include points in California, Arizona, Nevada and Utah. Cars interchanged to the SP at Lebanon or Eugene are traveling on OE waybills, thus the count DOES NOT include the large numbers of cars loaded for and interchanged to the SP per the open reciprocal agreements and therefore moving on SP waybills as originating carrier. Similar information is available for the OE for most of the fifties, but it will require a return to the PNRA to pull the appropriate SP&S/OE file.


Larry Rice
Port Townsend  WA










Re: Oregon lumber traffic

Greg Martin
 

Jeff answers:

"Fred,

You're welcome!

I hesitated to do that math (4940 cars per year, divided by 365 days per year = 13.5 cars per day).  I don’t know if finished lumber is shipped seasonally or if it is shipped uniformly throughout the year.  I'm willing to bet that others (Greg Martin) know the answer.

I suppose it doesn't matter much.  The number of cars is far less than a prototype train.  So one can model it as a single block of lumber cars per day, or perhaps a couple of smaller blocks.  Obviously, the number of cars in a “block” on most model RR’s is far fewer than on the prototype.

Regards,

-Jeff"

Fred, Jeff and all,

Lumber was bought,  sold and shipped every day to some degree. It was a commodity market product and being so the price was either up or down everyday just as you would expect of any commodity.  As you would expect there were certain times of the year that the market would go up due to supply/demand issues.

Here is what trends I can recall and I believe are still common today, the buyers would come to play in late February considering the transit time the material would arrive in early March and to the jobsite by months end. The market would climb through the last week in April and first week of May. June was a month of tapering, Fourth of July "shut-downs" would help hold the market up and August and September were down months. Somewhere about the 10th of October the market would get a kick start again and if the market took "baby steps" it could hold through Thanksgiving week "shut-downs" then the mills would have a good Christmas. There were always some market runs for various fabricated reasons, so lumber was always moving.

So I guess if you are modeling the spring months you would see the largest groups of cars headed south to Californian and also east towards Chicago.

Remember eighty percent of all commodities in a common house are plate stock, studs and roof sheathing. So think surfaced dimensional 2"x 4" with a dab of 2"x 6" (plumbing walls) 2"x 4" P.E.T. studs, and 1"x 6" (or wider) solid or skip sheathing.  The balance was surfaced floor joists, rafters, and header material as well as floor sheathing. Heavy un-dress timber was a small commodity where as 4"x and 6"x dressed timber was common for headers for the walls and timbers for the floors.

 

Greg Martin

 

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean


Re: Champ Decals vendors: - Joint bars

Rex Racer
 

One of the problems with using ink jet printers for printing decals is that many still use water soluble inks. You need to make sure that your printer uses water resistant ink in order for it to work (or you can use a laser printer). Also, with the exception of Alps, your printer cannot print white. In order to 'print' white, use white decal paper and cover up the area around the white with the same color as the car will be (example: BCR for a BCR boxcar or black for a black tank car). If you are printing either black or any other color than white (as long as it isn't too light - example: yellow), you can use clear decal film, but this is best if you are putting it on a light colored car or if you are printing black.

Jerry Glow: Ordered decals from him 1 1/2 years ago and NEVER got the decals or the money returned and he doesn't answer email so he isn't quite as endearing to me (and last I checked his website was still up with nothing saying how he isn't selling decals anymore). 


Re: Oregon lumber traffic

Dave Nelson
 

Post WWII the ICC slowly changed rates for lumber moving to the east coast.  Before the war rates were such that west coast lumber was rather hard to sell along the Great Lakes to the Atlantic coast as southern lumber was much less expensive, largely because of a rate-mileage advantage.  That slowly changed and west coast lumber reached equality of price in spite of the much greater distance it travelled.  IIRC it changed a bit more (in favor of the west) and the Lake front cities and upper Atlantic coast markets sold mostly western lumber.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 9:21 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Oregon lumber traffic


Here's one more data point on Lumber traffic originating on SP in Southern Oregon at Ashland.  I have two wheel reports from 1949 and 1950 showing mostly lumber loads headed out of Ashland for points east and south (CA).  The 1949 train has 31 lumber loads headed to points in the midwest and east coast, and only 3 loads headed for California. 5 of the cars headed for the midwest and east coast are SP cars. The 1950 train contains 18 cars headed to midwest and east coast, and 13 loads (mostly SP cars) headed for points in California. Of course this is only two trains, but does show that not all lumber from Oregon went to California, and that SP cars loaded with lumber could easily end up on the East Coast. Geographic eastbound traffic off the Siskiyou Line in Southern Oregon was routed through Klamath Falls to the SP's Modoc Line which joined the SP mainline to Ogden in Nevada.

Ken Roth

 


Re: Oregon lumber traffic

Ken Roth
 

Here's one more data point on Lumber traffic originating on SP in Southern Oregon at Ashland.  I have two wheel reports from 1949 and 1950 showing mostly lumber loads headed out of Ashland for points east and south (CA).  The 1949 train has 31 lumber loads headed to points in the midwest and east coast, and only 3 loads headed for California. 5 of the cars headed for the midwest and east coast are SP cars. The 1950 train contains 18 cars headed to midwest and east coast, and 13 loads (mostly SP cars) headed for points in California. Of course this is only two trains, but does show that not all lumber from Oregon went to California, and that SP cars loaded with lumber could easily end up on the East Coast. Geographic eastbound traffic off the Siskiyou Line in Southern Oregon was routed through Klamath Falls to the SP's Modoc Line which joined the SP mainline to Ogden in Nevada.

Ken Roth


Re: Oregon lumber traffic

Aley, Jeff A
 

Fred,

 

               You’re welcome!

 

I hesitated to do that math (4940 cars per year, divided by 365 days per year = 13.5 cars per day).  I don’t know if finished lumber is shipped seasonally or if it is shipped uniformly throughout the year.  I’m willing to bet that others (Greg Martin) know the answer.

               I suppose it doesn’t matter much.  The number of cars is far less than a prototype train.  So one can model it as a single block of lumber cars per day, or perhaps a couple of smaller blocks.  Obviously, the number of cars in a “block” on most model RR’s is far fewer than on the prototype.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 12:02 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Oregon lumber traffic

 

 

Thank you Jeff.
So 10% of that would mean ca. 4940 cars per year rolled over WP's inside gateway from Bieber to Keddie vv. That's 412 cars a month, 103 a week and 15 a day. Probably mostly GN, WP, SP&S, RG and SF cars.
In the very early 1900's WP handled a lot of lumber from the many mills along their lines. In the late 1900's that would deminish to a handfull along the Highline itself and of course the Quincy and Feather Falls mills (untill 1965). In fact UP still picks up the Quincy milled lumber at former Quincy Junction as far as I know.
To return to the topic: in the many books I have on WP I spotted only 1 wooden NP boxcar on the Highline. Guess I'll have to score 1 Rapido NP boxcar for my WP collection... (I model 1949).
best regards, Fred Jansz


Re: Klasing Handbrake source

genegreen1942@...
 

That is the Klasing model 700 in use from 1935 to the present.  It was mostly applied to drop end gondolas.  

Klasing recently sold out to New York Air Brake and I do not know if this or any other Klasing hand brakes will be available in the future but this is all well outside the time-frame for this group.

If memory serves, the 700 is one of two hand brakes included with the Proto 2000 mill gondola, the other hand brake being an obscure Ajax lever hand brake available for sale from 1964 to August 1968.   If the weep hole at the bottom of the housing that enclosed the gear became plugged and moisture accumulated inside and froze, the brake was inoperative.

Like a "hot box,"  an inoperative hand brake - can't move the car 'cause the brake can't be released until it thaws - is something we might occasionally include in our operating sessions.    I have a Champion-Peacock in the back yard that won't release which is why I was able to get it.  In this case the brake's defect has nothing to do with temperature.

Gene Green


Re: Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote :


Says that in 1959 as well ... but if you really think about that statement,
wouldn't it be TRUE for almost all railroads? I mean, could you have freight
cars used in switching services only with INDIRECT connections?...
====================

I think that is the equivalent of other roads statements that "Cars of this road are not used in interchange service." Because one end of the PGE was the CP ferry slip, they had an agreement with CP to handle their non-interchange compliant cars locally in Vancouver - but no further. That avoided refusals where the cars would be inspected at interchange with the US roads.

When the PGE bought some new cars and came into the modern world, that note went away.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Pacific Great Eastern freight cars in the US in the 1950s

Tim O'Connor
 

Greg

The Gerstley photo may actually be from 1960 or later. There is a CB&Q
Chinese Red box car coupled to the PGE box car -- this car has the grab
irons on "outriggers" which was a feature of combination door, and double
door, CB&Q box cars built in 1959 -- unless someone knows of such cars
built earlier than 1959.

Tim O'Connor

In "Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic", Tim O’Connor wrote:

“There's a late 1950's shot of PGE 4220 (NSC built 40 foot box) in the
Los Angeles area in the Jim Gerstley slide collection. The car has a built
date of 1-1958.�

Thanks for that information, Tim. If anyone has a copy of the ORER
later than January 1953, I would be very interested in knowing how late
the “Freight Cars owned are used only in Switching Service with direct
connections� statement appears in the Pacific Great Eastern listings.
From Tim’s message, it appears it did not still apply in the 1958-59
period.

Cheers,
Greg Kennelly
Burnaby, BC


Re: Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic

Tim O'Connor
 


Says that in 1959 as well ... but if you really think about that statement,
wouldn't it be TRUE for almost all railroads? I mean, could you have freight
cars used in switching services only with INDIRECT connections? Could you
have freight cars NOT used in switching services at all? If so, how would you
move them -- teleportation? What about leased cars?

The line is gone by 1963, if not earlier.

Tim O'Connor




Doug, Greg and Friends,

The PG&E page of my 1958 ORER still says "Freight cars owned are used only in switching services with direct connections."

Garth Groff


In praise of silk-screened decals (Was: Champ Decals vendors: Are there any?)

Fritz Milhaupt
 

>---In STMFC@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote :

> Microscale used to (and probably still does) do custom printing, but you
> need to order a bunch of sets.

> And Kadee printed two or three different sheets of decals for my train club.

I> I  remember there was someone else out there who would print a 8 x 11 page of
decals for a flat rate, like $40 or something like that. Sorry I've misplaced
the contact info ...
Anyway with the military and other markets still using decals, I'm not worried
that the ability to get silkscreened lettering is going to go away soon.

Microscale is an option if you want/need at least 250 of something, last I checked. They're playing in a different league than Rail Graphics-- with RG it is cost-effective to have a run of as few as 25-50 sets. Small projects like that just don't fit Microscale's business model and production methods-- I believe they're using offset or web printing.

I think that you'll find that anyone who is offering to print one-off full-sheets of decals for $40 is using an ALPS printer or another that uses a similar technology. The economics and labor involved in setting up multi-color silk-screened sets makes running screened one-offs unsustainable as a business model, unless one's labor is worth absolutely nothing.

Kadee doesn't offer silk-screened decals. Just offset-, laser- and ALPS-printed decals.

My experience with laser-printed colors on anything other than white decal stock has been miserable.

Now, ALPS technology is fine for solid color black, white, gold and silver decals. Where it starts to fall down is when you start to get to matching other colors. For example, to get an opaque dark blue, it is necessary to print a layer of white, a layer of blue, a layer of red, then another layer of blue. And that is easy compared to matching a yellow or an orange. The greater the number of layers, the stiffer the decal, which becomes an issue on curved surfaces and across rivets.

Once you get beyond a couple of layers, you start running into problems with the durability and the flexibility of the decal. And by durability, I mean how well the decal will survive before and during application. A single-color-layer ALPS decal requires careful use of solvents in application. Multiple-layer ones even more so. 

This is why, despite having printed decals on an ALPS printer for over ten years,  I am still such a fan of silk-screened decals: It is very hard, using current technology, to beat screen-printed decals for the ability to match colors easily, reasonable shelf life, and durability. Pricewise, silk-screened decals scale better for moderate-sized runs of 25 to 100 or so sets.

Silk-screening faces challenges going forward, as I've found out through trying to find new sources. Part of what made crisp printing possible with high-count screens was the use of petroleum-based inks. As these have been phased out in favor of water-based inks, it has been harder to get crisp, opaque, fine lettering. I went through several attempts with a company that makes decals for industrial uses, only to find that they simply couldn't match the results the Ron at Rail Graphics puts out every day.

To provide a little more context, I consider Rail Graphics the standard for silk-screened decals. I had RG run my first Pere Marquette switcher decal set, and I've provided artwork for other projects to several people who have had RG run it.  The pricing model is very good for the size of runs we use in this hobby, and the print quality is excellent. However, RG won't overprint colors on a sheet, so multi-color heralds require overlaying successive layers of decals. This is an issue when creating a set that I intend to sell on to others- when you have a very limited market to begin with, you don't want to drive away even those people who think that layering decals is too fussy a job.

When I found a supplier who would overprint several colors on a single sheet, with comparable resolution (After Hours Graphics), that fit my needs far better. When Chip shut down AHG, I had to search for a replacement. So far, the results have been discouraging.

Ultimately, I suspect that if I want to re-run my PM/C&O/M&NE switcher set, I'll need to go the Microscale route, and simply adjust the pricing to cover the cost of the 100+ sets from that run that I won't ever be able to sell. 

-Fritz Milhaupt
Pere Marquette decals: http://www.fritzmilhaupt.com/decals


Re: Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Doug, Greg and Friends,

The PG&E page of my 1958 ORER still says "Freight cars owned are used only in switching services with direct connections."

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 9/1/15 10:43 PM, Greg Kennelly greg_kennelly@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Doug Polinder writes:

. . . Early sighting of PGE cars in the U.S. is unlikely as the July 1935 ORER
carried the notation, “Freight Cars owned are not employed in Interstate
Commerce”, and from at least April 1940 - January 1953 the ORERs stated
that “Freight Cars owned are used only in Switching Service with direct
connections”. I do not have any ORERs from the later 1950s to see how
late this notation was included. It is interesting to note that, during
most of the era of this list the G.N. connection did not involve C.N.
but from 1930 - 1953, the Freight Connection with Canadian National did
involve G.N. as it was at Vancouver, BC (via C.P. & G.N.). There was,
in fact, a direct connection with C.N. established at Prince George, BC
in 1952 but it was not listed in the ORER until after January 1953.


Cheers,
Greg Kennelly



Re: Oregon lumber traffic

Fred Jansz
 

Thank you Jeff.
So 10% of that would mean ca. 4940 cars per year rolled over WP's inside gateway from Bieber to Keddie vv. That's 412 cars a month, 103 a week and 15 a day. Probably mostly GN, WP, SP&S, RG and SF cars.
In the very early 1900's WP handled a lot of lumber from the many mills along their lines. In the late 1900's that would deminish to a handfull along the Highline itself and of course the Quincy and Feather Falls mills (untill 1965). In fact UP still picks up the Quincy milled lumber at former Quincy Junction as far as I know.
To return to the topic: in the many books I have on WP I spotted only 1 wooden NP boxcar on the Highline. Guess I'll have to score 1 Rapido NP boxcar for my WP collection... (I model 1949).
best regards, Fred Jansz


Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic

Greg Martin
 

Dave Nelson writes in part:

"Don't overlook the fact that substantial amounts of lumber moved south by ship, at least before WWII. Labor costs after the war increased sharply and hurt break-bulk shipping all over North America."
Dave is correct, lots of lumber and panel products moved into California via barge from as far away as Vancouver Island, BC to Santa Cruz, CA and all points in between and still does for that matter.
 
Water traffic for the most part is slightly cheaper than rail and the end users wanted to keep it that way so much so that they often kept their own berths in the L. A. Harbor districts as well as San Diego.
 
But moving such huge amounts of lumber via barge could be a blessing as well as a curse. There was always the "Blue Moon" barges that would come back to bite your position in the hind quarters. Just as with rail you had union contracts to contend with and having a barge full of several million board feet of lumber products and no means to unload it in the middle of your busy shipping season was a huge issue compared to several carloads of lumber on cars that couldn't get switched in. The end user berths were all most always rail served as well. Many companies would have cars diverted to the berths to consolidate inventories or in some cases if the end user was SP served they would take UP/GN/NP/MILW wood into the berths as many times this wood was cheaper FOB LA than wood from the mid Willamette Valley or Northern California. One more way to keep the saw mills in check.
 
SP ruled the lumber markets in California and Arizona for many years, often the lumber rolled right on through the LA Basin to points like Phoenix. The UP for some many years was the minority player in the lumber baron southern California market with less receivers than even the Santa Fe who actually did have a strong second place in the grand scheme. Even as I was growing up in the lumber business in the 1970's I got tired of all the SP flats and boxes and enjoyed seeing a Great Northern 40-foot double door boxcar spotted at the team track at the Fullerton, CA station with a load of Inland Red Cedar hand loaded on spot, I can still smell the aroma to this day...
 
Jeff, remember that wood coming south out of Seattle/Tacoma area headed south and turned left at Vancouver, WA headed to the more numerous eastern markets. This included SPF from the coastal areas of BC. Chicago was and still is the biggest lumber gateway.
 
Yes, Mike I am back feeling much better and stronger everyday but sore as hell!
 
Greg Martin  
 
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean


Re: Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic

Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
 

I remember seeing PGE box cars in the future of the list while living in Kansas City area. I see no reason why such a car could not be in Los Angeles. As for the ARR hopper, perhaps it was routed from the builder to the Port of Los Angeles for shipment to the Alaskan railroad. Just a thought.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Sep 1, 2015, at 8:04 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Greg Kennelly wrote

>Except, possibly, in the later years of the era covered by this list, 
>Pacific Great Eastern (PGE) cars would be very unlikely to be seen in 
>the U.S. .... Following the opening of the North Vancouver - Squamish 
>section of the railway in 1956, the G.N. connection was at North 
>Vancouver (via either C.N. or C.P. (C.P. had running rights over C.N. 
>from Vancouver to North Vancouver)).

There's a late 1950's shot of PGE 4220 (NSC built 40 foot box) in the
Los Angeles area in the Jim Gerstley slide collection. The car has a built
date of 1-1958. Also in the same collection is a shot of a brand new Alaska
Railroad 3-bay offset side hopper, dated 3-1958 -- photo location is SP's
Taylor Yard in Los Angeles. If anyone has an explanation for that, I'd
love to hear it ! :-)

Tim O'Connor



Re: Champ Decals vendors: - Joint bars

np328
 

Tim,
if you are looking for joint bars look here:

<http://www.proto87.com/product1904.html>  


and then look elsewhere on that site.


Lots of gorgeous track detail products that detailed freight cars deserve to run on, in style. 


                                                                              Jim Dick - St. Paul   

                                                                          


 


Pacific Great Eastern freight cars in the US in the 1950s (offshoot from Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic)

greg kennelly
 

In "Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic", Tim O’Connor wrote:

“There's a late 1950's shot of PGE 4220 (NSC built 40 foot box) in the
Los Angeles area in the Jim Gerstley slide collection. The car has a built
date of 1-1958.”

Thanks for that information, Tim. If anyone has a copy of the ORER later than January 1953, I would be very interested in knowing how late the “Freight Cars owned are used only in Switching Service with direct connections” statement appears in the Pacific Great Eastern listings. From Tim’s message, it appears it did not still apply in the 1958-59 period.

Cheers,
Greg Kennelly
Burnaby, BC

46381 - 46400 of 183358