Date   

Pacifc Northwest Lumber Traffic

gary laakso
 

Given the Hill lines friendly CB&Q connection to Texas in Montana, was there significant GN and NP lumber traffic routed via CB&Q to Texas?
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock


Re: Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic

Greg Martin
 

Mark Hemphill writes: 

"It would have to be some very special lumber to compete on cost including transportation, for PGE-originated lumber in distant markets.  It would not be a framing grade of Western Hemlock or Douglas-fir or some Spruce-Pine-Fir grade unless the mill was just giving it away; the rail transportation costs in the Steam Era made it rare to be able to rail lumber from the PNW beyond Chicago and compete effectively with Southern Yellow Pine.  And in the 1930s, Weyerhaeuser developed its own giant lumber warehouse, distribution, planing, and millwork centers in Baltimore and Newark using its own coast-wise shipping line that avoided the whole cost-of-rail problem completely, competing effectively with all-rail Southern Yellow Pine from the Southeast. See this for a capsule history: http://www.wsl.com/WestwoodShipping_History.aspx  So yes, you could find a lot of Douglas-fir being used in the Northeast in construction, but it didn't get there very often by rail."

 

"It would possibly be some fancy grade quarter-sawn clear Douglas-fir veneer or long boards. But there was plenty of that lumber in Washington and Oregon, so a carload from B.C. would have to leapfrog over them. (To add some detail to what Dave Nelson said earlier, a lot of lumber moved via coast-wise shipping from every port in Oregon, Washington and northern California to every port from San Francisco southward at lower-than-rail cost. After WWII, the whole cost-of-ocean shipping equation was upended, and the coast-wise lumber business declined rapidly.  There's an excellent history of this in The Rise and Decline of U.S. Merchant Shipping in the 20th Century, Rene De La Pedraja http ://www.amazon.com/Merchant-Shipping-Twentieth-Evolution-Business/dp/0805798269)"

  

"However, there are some unusual species/grades that do come out of BC, for special applications.  Yellow Cedar, for instance, virtually only comes from B.C.'s coastal range in commercial quantities in large, clear, book-matched veneer. I saw a carload of that in the mid-1980s for paneling for a university recital hall. It went all the way to Philadelphia to a specialty paneling and door manufacturer.  Then all the way back to Alaska, in containers, for a University of Alaska recital hall.  Kind of expensive, but it was really pretty."

"How do we know the PGE car we see at a distant location was loaded on PGE? &nb sp;I have plenty of examples from my own career where we have borrowed foreign cars, loaded them on our line, and sent them in the wrong direction away from the owning road. We've done this by calling the owning road and horse-trading with them, or sometimes we just ignored the car-service rules and ignored the fine that might result because we were desperate for empties, and sometimes just in error because a trainmaster or conductor wasn't paying attention and just grabbed the nearest empty car."

I've also seen lumber brokers get the market wrong and redirect a car they thought would, say, find a market in Denver to a market in Pittsburgh.  And take a huge bath on it. They don't do that very often and stay in business, though.  That could also explain an unusual car that is a long, long, away from home. 

Almost anything in railroading is done once.  

Mark Hemphill"
 
My only comment to Mark's message would be that the lumber futures on the Chicago Mercantile was based on FOB mill price plus Chicago rail freight regardless of specie. 
 
The vast majority of lumber on the west coast was shipped over Chicago to the markets on the eastern seaboard.  Some species like Southern Yellow Pine and Eastern Green Spruce had reputation issues that took years to overcome for framing lumber. Remember to find a mill that cut lumber longer than twenty feet (in the scope of this list) you had to come to the west coast.
 
Specialty species like Alaskan Yellow Cedar or Coastal BC Yellow Cedar were much like that of Redwood and Port Oford Cedar and were just that expensive and specialty. To see them used in the east was to find them in the finest institutions and businesses.
 
Barge freight to the east coast was an option if you didn't mind paying for an item (ADI ADF) you wouldn't mind seeing for two months. That tied up a lot of capitol and inventory for sometime, but it was and still is done. Missed markets with this kind of inventory could ruin your P&L for the quarter.
 
Just remember as one of the early founders of the Forest City Companies told me, "if there was no market we would often roll cars on Monday and create a market by Friday."  Speculation was all part of the game and as they will tell you. "your first loss is your best loss..."  Hopefully that doesn't happen often at all.
 
Rail cars of lumber over the Rockies and the great plains is a pleasant site. Many of the cars traveled on slow freights that allowed the consignees to get off their position in route to Chicago.
 
Greg Martin  


GACX Duraglas LO

Eric Mumper
 

Group,


Does anybody have a good clear picture of any of the Owens Illinois covered hoppers with the Duraglas lettering?  These are GACX cars in the 40000 to 40199 series and are the small 1321 cuft cars.  The only picture I have is a poor copy of a Charles Winters photo of 40095.  I would appreciate any leads on a better picture of these for my modeling needs.  Thanks.


Eric Mumper

eric.mumper@...


Re: Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic

lstt100
 

Car Service Rules did allow the backhauling of empties providing there was an order on hand with the agent at the loading location specifying a routing to, via, or in the direction of the owner.

Dan Holbrook


Re: Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic

greg kennelly
 

Garth,

I would support your interpretation. According to a number of CPR historians here in the Vancouver, BC area, the CP would routinely send empty US road cars up to Squamish on the barge (Car Service Rule 4 notwithstanding) to be loaded with lumber from mills on the PGE for delivery to US consignees.

Economically, this makes sense for the CPR. Instead of shoving the car onto the GN interchange track, they put it on the barge (i.e on the PGE); PGE gets stuck with the per diem charges while it transports the car up to Squamish then hauls it up the line to the mill to be loaded, moves it back to Squamish, and back to the CPR via the barge. CPR unloads the barge, moves the car to the GN before midnight (thus avoiding the per diem charge), and the car is then on its way with a shipment that takes it in the general direction of its home road, earning money for everyone that handles it while it is loaded. If the load happens to be destined for somwhere further East, then the CPR benefits even more as they can increase their portion of the total mileage.

Cheers,
Greg Kennelly




Garth Groff wrote:

"I'm thinking that the phrase means that PGE cars were to be routed to
direct connections and no further. If so, you would be unlikely to see a
PGE car in California during our era. Instead, the PGE would likely have
provided their shipper a car from a connecting Canadian road."


Re: Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic

Mark Hemphill
 

It would have to be some very special lumber to compete on cost including transportation, for PGE-originated lumber in distant markets.  It would not be a framing grade of Western Hemlock or Douglas-fir or some Spruce-Pine-Fir grade unless the mill was just giving it away; the rail transportation costs in the Steam Era made it rare to be able to rail lumber from the PNW beyond Chicago and compete effectively with Southern Yellow Pine.  And in the 1930s, Weyerhaeuser developed its own giant lumber warehouse, distribution, planing, and millwork centers in Baltimore and Newark using its own coast-wise shipping line that avoided the whole cost-of-rail problem completely, competing effectively with all-rail Southern Yellow Pine from the Southeast. See this for a capsule history: http://www.wsl.com/WestwoodShipping_History.aspx  So yes, you could find a lot of Douglas-fir being used in the Northeast in construction, but it didn't get there very often by rail.

 

It would possibly be some fancy grade quarter-sawn clear Douglas-fir veneer or long boards. But there was plenty of that lumber in Washington and Oregon, so a carload from B.C. would have to leapfrog over them. (To add some detail to what Dave Nelson said earlier, a lot of lumber moved via coast-wise shipping from every port in Oregon, Washington and northern California to every port from San Francisco southward at lower-than-rail cost. After WWII, the whole cost-of-ocean shipping equation was upended, and the coast-wise lumber business declined rapidly.  There's an excellent history of this in The Rise and Decline of U.S. Merchant Shipping in the 20th Century, Rene De La Pedraja http://www.amazon.com/Merchant-Shipping-Twentieth-Evolution-Business/dp/0805798269)

  

However, there are some unusual species/grades that do come out of BC, for special applications.  Yellow Cedar, for instance, virtually only comes from B.C.'s coastal range in commercial quantities in large, clear, book-matched veneer. I saw a carload of that in the mid-1980s for paneling for a university recital hall. It went all the way to Philadelphia to a specialty paneling and door manufacturer.  Then all the way back to Alaska, in containers, for a University of Alaska recital hall.  Kind of expensive, but it was really pretty.

How do we know the PGE car we see at a distant location was loaded on PGE?  I have plenty of examples from my own career where we have borrowed foreign cars, loaded them on our line, and sent them in the wrong direction away from the owning road. We've done this by calling the owning road and horse-trading with them, or sometimes we just ignored the car-service rules and ignored the fine that might result because we were desperate for empties, and sometimes just in error because a trainmaster or conductor wasn't paying attention and just grabbed the nearest empty car.

I've also seen lumber brokers get the market wrong and redirect a car they thought would, say, find a market in Denver to a market in Pittsburgh.  And take a huge bath on it. They don't do that very often and stay in business, though.  That could also explain an unusual car that is a long, long, away from home. 

Almost anything in railroading is done once.  

Mark Hemphill


Re: Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic

Tim O'Connor
 


That may be so Garth, but once a PGE car went to, say, the Canadian National, it
might end up in Portland Maine on the Grand Trunk, or any number of other places.
It's highly doubtful that other railroads would pay special attention to a very
ordinary PGE box car. The cars wore standard stencils, which were only required
for cars in unrestricted interchange.

Without a doubt the box cars were rare -- there were just over a couple hundred in
1959 versus what, nearly a MILLION North American box cars in the late 1950's.

Tim



I'm thinking that the phrase means that PGE cars were to be routed to direct connections and no further. If so, you would be unlikely to see a PGE car in California during our era. Instead, the PGE would likely have provided their shipper a car from a connecting Canadian road.

Yours Aye,
Garth Groff


Re: Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic

railsnw@...
 

I know the PGE bought a large amount of ex-Central of New Jersey 40' steel boxcars but I don't know if these were for online use or for interchange.

I wonder if the PGE began sending more cars south after the connection was made between North Vancouver and Squamish. Prior to that cars were unloaded at a barge slip in Squamish and I have photos of a barge being unloaded and besides CP & CN cars it did have some US cars.

Rich


Re: Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim,

I'm thinking that the phrase means that PGE cars were to be routed to direct connections and no further. If so, you would be unlikely to see a PGE car in California during our era. Instead, the PGE would likely have provided their shipper a car from a connecting Canadian road.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/2/15 7:28 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
 


Says that in 1959 as well ... but if you really think about that statement,
wouldn't it be TRUE for almost all railroads? I mean, could you have freight
cars used in switching services only with INDIRECT connections? Could you
have freight cars NOT used in switching services at all? If so, how would you
move them -- teleportation? What about leased cars?

The line is gone by 1963, if not earlier.

Tim O'Connor




Doug, Greg and Friends,

The PG&E page of my 1958 ORER still says "Freight cars owned are used only in switching services with direct connections."

Garth Groff




AB brakes

ed_mines
 

Speaking of AB brake sets I'd like to buy some of the old Cal Scale sets or something similar.


Bowser sells the Cal Scale sets for about $5 each last I looked and they charge a lot for shipping.


I have problems assembling the Tichy AB brake components (old age and fat. fingers).  I don't mind paying $3 for the set and Tichy charges all of $3 for shipping. They are lightening fast too.


Maybe someone could bring this up to Tichy?


Ed Mines


Re: Pacific Great Eastern freight cars in the US in the 1950s (offshoot

greg kennelly
 

Thanks to Bob Hanmer and Barry Bennett who, off list, provided me with information that the statement "Freight Cars owned are used only in Switching Service with direct connections" appeared in the Pacific Great Eastern ORER entries as late as July 1959 but disappeared some time before an unspecified month in 1963 (beyond the cut-off date for this list).

Thanks also to Tim O'Connor who sent me a copy of the photograph of PGE 4220 (BLT 1-58) in Los Angeles in the late 1950s (actually, I believe, some time after June 1960 - the repack stencil looks like "RPKD PGE, NV 6-26-60"). However, as many of us know, it was the rarities rather than the common occurences that tended to be photographed. I will, therefore, stick with my statement that, in the time frame of this list, the appearance of a PGE freight car in the U.S. would be a relative rarity.

Cheers,
Greg Kennelly,
Burnaby, BC


Re: Oregon lumber traffic

Larry Rice
 

Greetings,

Freight traffic to, from, and via the SP&S and especially its Oregon Electric Willamette Valley lines has been an intense interest of mine for over 15 years. I offer the following information for those who are interested in lumber and plywood shipments originating in the Willamette Valley. Carloads of lumber and plywood originating on Oregon Electric served Willamette Valley points during 1960 and 1961 with general routings and regional destinations are shown below. The information comes from SP&S Traffic Department monthly and annual traffic reports owned by the SP&S Historical Society and housed at the Pacific Northwest Railroad Archives.


For the Oregon Electric excluding the Forest Grove branch during 1960…
Total lumber carloads originating - 10,932.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S and the Pasco NP, Scribner/Yardley NP, or Spokane GN gateways - 7,993.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S GN WP route – 600.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and GN – 81.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and NP – 63.
Carloads interchanged to the SP at Lebanon or Eugene – 134.
Calif., Ariz., Nevada, and Utah destinations via SP&S GN WP – 848.
Northwest destinations via the SP&S – 843.
Northwest destinations via the GN – 191.
Northwest destinations via the NP – 179.


For the Oregon Electric excluding the Forest Grove branch during 1961…
Total lumber carloads originating – 11,160.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S and the Pasco NP, Scribner/Yardley NP, or Spokane GN gateways – 7,596.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S GN WP route – 773.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and GN – 102.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and NP – 93.
Carloads interchanged to the SP at Lebanon or Eugene – 269.
Calif., Ariz., Nevada, and Utah destinations via SP&S GN WP – 1,153.
Northwest destinations via the SP&S – 775.
Northwest destinations via the GN – 211.
Northwest destinations via the NP – 188.


For the Oregon Electric excluding the Forest Grove branch during 1961…
Total Plywood carloads originating – 11,847.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S and the Pasco NP, Scribner/Yardley NP, or Spokane GN gateways – 9,603.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S GN WP route – 224.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and GN – 49.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and NP – 107.
Carloads interchanged to the SP at Lebanon or Eugene – 33.
Calif., Ariz., Nevada, and Utah destinations via SP&S GN WP – 415.
Northwest destinations via the SP&S – 438.
Northwest destinations via the GN – 251.
Northwest destinations via the NP – 727.

The same information is available for each station on the Oregon Electric, an example is provided below…

For all mills in Eugene for 1960…
Total lumber carloads originating – 3,526.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S and the Pasco NP, Scribner/Yardley NP, or Spokane GN gateways – 2,283. 
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S GN WP route – 255.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and GN – 11.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and NP – 6.
Carloads interchanged to the SP at Lebanon or Eugene – 1.
Calif., Ariz., Nevada, and Utah destinations via SP&S GN WP – 286.
Northwest destinations via the SP&S – 514.
Northwest destinations via the GN – 76.
Northwest destinations via the NP – 94.

The same information is available for each mill on the OE, a pair of examples are included below…

For Cuddeback Lumber Co. in Eugene for 1961…
Total lumber carloads originating – 579.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S and the Pasco NP, Scribner/Yardley NP, or Spokane GN gateways – 241. 
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S GN WP route – 109.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and GN – 0.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and NP – 2.
Carloads interchanged to the SP at Lebanon or Eugene – 0.
Calif., Ariz., Nevada, and Utah destinations via SP&S GN WP – 112.
Northwest destinations via the SP&S – 82.
Northwest destinations via the GN – 20.
Northwest destinations via the NP – 13.

For Bauman Lumber Co. in Waterloo Oregon (Santiam branch) for 1961…
Total lumber carloads originating – 1857.
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S and the Pasco NP, Scribner/Yardley NP, or Spokane GN gateways – 1380. 
Transcontinental destinations via SP&S GN WP route – 52.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and GN – 38.
Transcontinental destinations via Portland and NP – 11.
Carloads interchanged to the SP at Lebanon or Eugene – 33.
Calif., Ariz., Nevada, and Utah destinations via SP&S GN WP – 267.
Northwest destinations via the SP&S – 39.
Northwest destinations via the GN – 32.
Northwest destinations via the NP – 5.

------
A few notes… The total lumber or plywood carloads from the OE in the Willamette Valley routed via the inside gateway would be the total of the third and seventh lines in the examples above. Northwest destinations are defined in this data as points in Washington, Oregon, British Columbia, Idaho, extreme western Montana and southwestern Alberta. Transcontinental destinations are all points east of the identified Northwest destinations but DO NOT include points in California, Arizona, Nevada and Utah. Cars interchanged to the SP at Lebanon or Eugene are traveling on OE waybills, thus the count DOES NOT include the large numbers of cars loaded for and interchanged to the SP per the open reciprocal agreements and therefore moving on SP waybills as originating carrier. Similar information is available for the OE for most of the fifties, but it will require a return to the PNRA to pull the appropriate SP&S/OE file.


Larry Rice
Port Townsend  WA










Re: Oregon lumber traffic

Greg Martin
 

Jeff answers:

"Fred,

You're welcome!

I hesitated to do that math (4940 cars per year, divided by 365 days per year = 13.5 cars per day).  I don’t know if finished lumber is shipped seasonally or if it is shipped uniformly throughout the year.  I'm willing to bet that others (Greg Martin) know the answer.

I suppose it doesn't matter much.  The number of cars is far less than a prototype train.  So one can model it as a single block of lumber cars per day, or perhaps a couple of smaller blocks.  Obviously, the number of cars in a “block” on most model RR’s is far fewer than on the prototype.

Regards,

-Jeff"

Fred, Jeff and all,

Lumber was bought,  sold and shipped every day to some degree. It was a commodity market product and being so the price was either up or down everyday just as you would expect of any commodity.  As you would expect there were certain times of the year that the market would go up due to supply/demand issues.

Here is what trends I can recall and I believe are still common today, the buyers would come to play in late February considering the transit time the material would arrive in early March and to the jobsite by months end. The market would climb through the last week in April and first week of May. June was a month of tapering, Fourth of July "shut-downs" would help hold the market up and August and September were down months. Somewhere about the 10th of October the market would get a kick start again and if the market took "baby steps" it could hold through Thanksgiving week "shut-downs" then the mills would have a good Christmas. There were always some market runs for various fabricated reasons, so lumber was always moving.

So I guess if you are modeling the spring months you would see the largest groups of cars headed south to Californian and also east towards Chicago.

Remember eighty percent of all commodities in a common house are plate stock, studs and roof sheathing. So think surfaced dimensional 2"x 4" with a dab of 2"x 6" (plumbing walls) 2"x 4" P.E.T. studs, and 1"x 6" (or wider) solid or skip sheathing.  The balance was surfaced floor joists, rafters, and header material as well as floor sheathing. Heavy un-dress timber was a small commodity where as 4"x and 6"x dressed timber was common for headers for the walls and timbers for the floors.

 

Greg Martin

 

Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean


Re: Champ Decals vendors: - Joint bars

Rex Racer
 

One of the problems with using ink jet printers for printing decals is that many still use water soluble inks. You need to make sure that your printer uses water resistant ink in order for it to work (or you can use a laser printer). Also, with the exception of Alps, your printer cannot print white. In order to 'print' white, use white decal paper and cover up the area around the white with the same color as the car will be (example: BCR for a BCR boxcar or black for a black tank car). If you are printing either black or any other color than white (as long as it isn't too light - example: yellow), you can use clear decal film, but this is best if you are putting it on a light colored car or if you are printing black.

Jerry Glow: Ordered decals from him 1 1/2 years ago and NEVER got the decals or the money returned and he doesn't answer email so he isn't quite as endearing to me (and last I checked his website was still up with nothing saying how he isn't selling decals anymore). 


Re: Oregon lumber traffic

Dave Nelson
 

Post WWII the ICC slowly changed rates for lumber moving to the east coast.  Before the war rates were such that west coast lumber was rather hard to sell along the Great Lakes to the Atlantic coast as southern lumber was much less expensive, largely because of a rate-mileage advantage.  That slowly changed and west coast lumber reached equality of price in spite of the much greater distance it travelled.  IIRC it changed a bit more (in favor of the west) and the Lake front cities and upper Atlantic coast markets sold mostly western lumber.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 9:21 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Oregon lumber traffic


Here's one more data point on Lumber traffic originating on SP in Southern Oregon at Ashland.  I have two wheel reports from 1949 and 1950 showing mostly lumber loads headed out of Ashland for points east and south (CA).  The 1949 train has 31 lumber loads headed to points in the midwest and east coast, and only 3 loads headed for California. 5 of the cars headed for the midwest and east coast are SP cars. The 1950 train contains 18 cars headed to midwest and east coast, and 13 loads (mostly SP cars) headed for points in California. Of course this is only two trains, but does show that not all lumber from Oregon went to California, and that SP cars loaded with lumber could easily end up on the East Coast. Geographic eastbound traffic off the Siskiyou Line in Southern Oregon was routed through Klamath Falls to the SP's Modoc Line which joined the SP mainline to Ogden in Nevada.

Ken Roth

 


Re: Oregon lumber traffic

Ken Roth
 

Here's one more data point on Lumber traffic originating on SP in Southern Oregon at Ashland.  I have two wheel reports from 1949 and 1950 showing mostly lumber loads headed out of Ashland for points east and south (CA).  The 1949 train has 31 lumber loads headed to points in the midwest and east coast, and only 3 loads headed for California. 5 of the cars headed for the midwest and east coast are SP cars. The 1950 train contains 18 cars headed to midwest and east coast, and 13 loads (mostly SP cars) headed for points in California. Of course this is only two trains, but does show that not all lumber from Oregon went to California, and that SP cars loaded with lumber could easily end up on the East Coast. Geographic eastbound traffic off the Siskiyou Line in Southern Oregon was routed through Klamath Falls to the SP's Modoc Line which joined the SP mainline to Ogden in Nevada.

Ken Roth


Re: Oregon lumber traffic

Aley, Jeff A
 

Fred,

 

               You’re welcome!

 

I hesitated to do that math (4940 cars per year, divided by 365 days per year = 13.5 cars per day).  I don’t know if finished lumber is shipped seasonally or if it is shipped uniformly throughout the year.  I’m willing to bet that others (Greg Martin) know the answer.

               I suppose it doesn’t matter much.  The number of cars is far less than a prototype train.  So one can model it as a single block of lumber cars per day, or perhaps a couple of smaller blocks.  Obviously, the number of cars in a “block” on most model RR’s is far fewer than on the prototype.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 12:02 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Oregon lumber traffic

 

 

Thank you Jeff.
So 10% of that would mean ca. 4940 cars per year rolled over WP's inside gateway from Bieber to Keddie vv. That's 412 cars a month, 103 a week and 15 a day. Probably mostly GN, WP, SP&S, RG and SF cars.
In the very early 1900's WP handled a lot of lumber from the many mills along their lines. In the late 1900's that would deminish to a handfull along the Highline itself and of course the Quincy and Feather Falls mills (untill 1965). In fact UP still picks up the Quincy milled lumber at former Quincy Junction as far as I know.
To return to the topic: in the many books I have on WP I spotted only 1 wooden NP boxcar on the Highline. Guess I'll have to score 1 Rapido NP boxcar for my WP collection... (I model 1949).
best regards, Fred Jansz


Re: Klasing Handbrake source

genegreen1942@...
 

That is the Klasing model 700 in use from 1935 to the present.  It was mostly applied to drop end gondolas.  

Klasing recently sold out to New York Air Brake and I do not know if this or any other Klasing hand brakes will be available in the future but this is all well outside the time-frame for this group.

If memory serves, the 700 is one of two hand brakes included with the Proto 2000 mill gondola, the other hand brake being an obscure Ajax lever hand brake available for sale from 1964 to August 1968.   If the weep hole at the bottom of the housing that enclosed the gear became plugged and moisture accumulated inside and froze, the brake was inoperative.

Like a "hot box,"  an inoperative hand brake - can't move the car 'cause the brake can't be released until it thaws - is something we might occasionally include in our operating sessions.    I have a Champion-Peacock in the back yard that won't release which is why I was able to get it.  In this case the brake's defect has nothing to do with temperature.

Gene Green


Re: Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote :


Says that in 1959 as well ... but if you really think about that statement,
wouldn't it be TRUE for almost all railroads? I mean, could you have freight
cars used in switching services only with INDIRECT connections?...
====================

I think that is the equivalent of other roads statements that "Cars of this road are not used in interchange service." Because one end of the PGE was the CP ferry slip, they had an agreement with CP to handle their non-interchange compliant cars locally in Vancouver - but no further. That avoided refusals where the cars would be inspected at interchange with the US roads.

When the PGE bought some new cars and came into the modern world, that note went away.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Pacific Great Eastern freight cars in the US in the 1950s

Tim O'Connor
 

Greg

The Gerstley photo may actually be from 1960 or later. There is a CB&Q
Chinese Red box car coupled to the PGE box car -- this car has the grab
irons on "outriggers" which was a feature of combination door, and double
door, CB&Q box cars built in 1959 -- unless someone knows of such cars
built earlier than 1959.

Tim O'Connor

In "Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic", Tim O’Connor wrote:

“There's a late 1950's shot of PGE 4220 (NSC built 40 foot box) in the
Los Angeles area in the Jim Gerstley slide collection. The car has a built
date of 1-1958.�

Thanks for that information, Tim. If anyone has a copy of the ORER
later than January 1953, I would be very interested in knowing how late
the “Freight Cars owned are used only in Switching Service with direct
connections� statement appears in the Pacific Great Eastern listings.
From Tim’s message, it appears it did not still apply in the 1958-59
period.

Cheers,
Greg Kennelly
Burnaby, BC

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