|
Re: Tichy models of ACL flats and gondolas
I'm not an ACL wonk, so I might be wrong, but I think most of those flat cars were either in MOW service or had pulpwood bulkheads added by the mid-1950s, so in either case would not be found offline in 1960. They had the class changed when modified, which is why I have some trouble following their history. The Tichy car is really not an ACL prototype, but is very close.
As far as the lettering, my impression is that only the steamers, early diesels and passenger cars had the aluminum lettering. Later it was dropped, since it was labor-intensive to apply (they used aluminum leaf as far as I know, which is applied the same as gold leaf - PRR dropped that in the early 1950s to save costs). Again, I really don't specialize in ACL, and especially their passenger cars, but I think they went from aluminum leaf on a purple letterboard to black letters on a plain stainless steel background. Need help here though. -- John
|
|
|
|
Re: Tichy models of ACL flats and gondolas
Justin May <jmay59@...>
My impression is that by 1960 they were held to on-line service only. Is that true?Jim, By 1954, only 21 of the P-11 series remained. Other groups are the P-9, and sub-groups such as the P-11C, P-11G, and others from the absorption of AB&C, such as the P-15 class. Speaking in generalities, yes, most of those cars that remained in revenue service were being utilized by on-line customers only, as there wasn't a need for a 40-ton flat car by most shippers. Most were constructed in 1914, 1917 (40-ton capacity), with the P-15 class being constructed in 1926 and rated for 50-ton capacity. We ran a nice illustrated article of these cars in the Seaboard-Coast Line Modeler Issue 17 featuring the work of Tom Christensen along with several prototype photos. http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/magimages/sclm17coverfull.jpg http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/index.htm Would there be any reasonable excuse for an interchange escapee in 1960? Also, wasn't ACL lettering aluminum, not white? If so, are there any appropriate aluminum ACL decals for these cars?Yes. See Liljestrand and Sweetland's Atlantic Coast Line Freight Cars book for a nice in-service shot of ACL 76771 on 10/10/1961. The Mainline Modeler article by Mark Montague from May 1984 features a good collection of these cars as well in numerous types of service albeit most are pre-1960. ACL freight car lettering was either white, yellow, or red, never silver as that was reserved for motive power. These particular cars were lettered in white and the included Tichy decals are good. Justin May
|
|
|
|
Re: Door selection
Alex:
Go to the Fallen Flag website. The LV 63699 is in a group that has 7' wide Youngstown doors and Dreadnaught 1+3/4 ends. Other details are visible in those photos, but looks like an AAR 1944-style car. Not sure of the GMO cars. Probably some on that site too. -- John
|
|
|
|
Re: Car Service Rules
Dave Nelson
Seems to me the SCO90 charts would be of considerable interest to both this group and the OPSIG group. I wonder where they might be found today?
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2015 1:36 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Car Service Rules
When a car was located in an area that had no direct connection to owner, the railroad was obligated by record rights to return the car in the reverse of the loaded movement. Much of this was solved when SCO90 was implemented in 1953 and short home routes were specified to get cars back home to owners with no regard to record rights. SCO90 charts specified who would take what owners cars at what junction points.
|
|
|
|
Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..
Yes, Bill the Speedwitch kit was what I was referring to.
On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 12:21 PM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
|
|
|
|
Door selection
Alexander Schneider Jr
I picked up a couple of C&BT kits for AAR 1944 box cars, and would appreciate recommendations whether to use the Youngstown (ribbed) or Superior (panel) doors. I have quite a few reference books about NYC, which is the railroad I model, but can use some help on foreign road cars.
LV 63699
GM&O 52287
I also bought NYC 70590, a 40’ automobile car of lot 760-B built in 1947, but found a photo on the Canada Southern site showing Youngstown doors. I will overlook that the built date on the model is July 1945.
Thanks.
Alex Schneider
|
|
|
|
Re: Pacific Northwest Lumber Traffic
lstt100
I would advise those of you interested in the PNW lumber traffic to obtain or get on loan, "American Commodity Flow" by Edward L. Uhlman, published in 1957 by University of Washington Press in Seattle. He encapsulates some of the carload waybill statistics for 20 states including Washington. He also gives reference to "Expanding Domestic Markets for Northwestern Lumber" by Roy Sampson, published in Pacific Northwest Business January 1956 pages 3 thru 8.
Quote from book: " In a splendid recent analysis, Roy Sampson shows how Washington and Douglas fir region lumber is able to compete with southern pine in spite of being almost three times as far from market. Production costs of Douglas fir lumber average 15 to 20 per cent below southern pine from 1939 to 1952, with absolute cost spread between the two regions widening after the war. (This presumably reflects, among other factors, the large size of Northwest trees and mills, compared to the diminishing supply of large stands in the cut over South.) In addition, rates per ton mile are less for long haul, as is normally the case; but, even more significant southern pine weighs up to 15 per cent more per board foot than Douglas fir, and transport rates are quoted on a weight basis, whereas lumber is sold on a board-foot basis. (For most purposes, the quality of Douglas fir seems to be certainly as high as, if not higher than, most southern pine.) The results of these differences are seen in the map of estimated delivered costs, which shows the Pacific Northwest competing on equal or superior terms in the industrial belt, the great market of the country." Dan Holbrook
|
|
|
|
Re: Car service rules
lstt100
Rules apply to all equipment with the exception of: tank cars, specially equipped boxcars, LO cars in later years and any car specified in Special Car Orders.
Dan Holbrook
|
|
|
|
Tichy models of ACL flats and gondolas
Jim Mischke
I recall that the Tichy flat car and related composite gondola are reasonable Atlantic Coast Line prototypes. These survived in very limited numbers past 1960. A couple questions. My impression is that by 1960 they were held to on-line service only. Is that true? Would there be any reasonable excuse for an interchange escapee in 1960? Also, wasn't ACL lettering aluminum, not white? If so, are there any appropriate aluminum ACL decals for these cars?
|
|
|
|
Car service rules
Paul Catapano
PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.
I was under the impression that the car service rules GENERALLY pertained only to 40' boxcar's. Paul Catapano Winchester, Va.
|
|
|
|
Re: Car Service Rules
lstt100
Easiest explanation is the rules themselves.
Rule 1 Home cars shall not be used for movement of traffic beyond the limites of the home road when the use of other suitable cars under these rules is practicable. Rule 2(A) Foreign cars on a direct connection must be forwarded to the home road loaded or empty in manner provided below. Rule 2(B) If empty at junction with the home road and loading at that point via the home is not available they must subject to Rule 6, be delivered to it at that junction, unless an exception to requirement be agreed to be roads involved. When holding road has no physical connection with the home road andis obliged to use an intermediate road or roads, to place the car on home rails under the provision of this paragraph and the car has records rights to such intermediate road or roads, it may be so delivered. Rule 2(C) If empty at other than junction points with the home road, cars under this rule may be. !. loaded via any route so that the home road will participate in the freight rate, or, 2, moved locally in the direction of the home road. 3. Moved locally in an opposite direction from the home road, or delivered to a short line or a switching road, if to be loaded for delivery on or movement via the home road, or, 4. Delivered empty to home road at any junction point subject to Rule 6, or, 5. Delivered empty to road from which originally received under load at the junction where received, or at another junction mutually agreed upon, if such road is also a direct connectoin of the home road, or 6. returned empty to the delivering road when handled only in switching service. These were the rules. How a specific agent, terminal or division handled the empties was up to the people operating the railroad. If there were any Special Orders in effect, they had to be consulted and complied with. To show everyone how confusing it was to even professional railroaders. Imagine a WP plain boxcar being loaded with lumber from California to Buffalo, NY routed: WP-Salt Lake City-DRGW-Pueblo-MP-St.Louis-NKP. Once unloaded car was reloaded at Buffalo with small electric motors for Spokane, WA routed NKP-Chicago-CBQ-St.Paul-NP. This is in compliance with rules account it is being loaded in correct direction and will be located in an adjacent Car Service Map territory. Once car was unloaded at Spokane and no load was available what happens to the empty? NP has no direct connection to WP. Before 1953 and SCO90 which authorized the short home routing of empty plain boxcars, car would have had to been routed eastward back to CB&Q at Twin Cities and if load was not found on way east car would have to return to Chicago and lacking a load on CB&Q to get car back home, CB&Q would deliver car to NKP at Chicago who could look for a load and if not available would be obligated to return car to MP at St.Louis to get is started back home. When a car was located in an area that had no direct connection to owner, the railroad was obligated by record rights to return the car in the reverse of the loaded movement. Much of this was solved when SCO90 was implemented in 1953 and short home routes were specified to get cars back home to owners with no regard to record rights. SCO90 charts specified who would take what owners cars at what junction points. Dan Holbrook
|
|
|
|
Re: B&O Gondola color
Jim Mischke
Westerfield resin kits came with researched directions and prototype information, be aware that they reflect the best collective wisdom at the time, now some are well over 20 years old. One would be hard put to find any prototype red B&O steel gondolas in revenue numbers in the STMFC era before 1960. Red Caboose came out with a red B&O 42' steel flat car, this is a foobie.
|
|
|
|
Re: Car Service Rules
Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
OOPs!
The above should read … “2 out of three” … Sorry about the typo. Cheers, Bill Keene Irvine, CA
|
|
|
|
Re: flat car, NC&StL - Apology
WILLIAM PARDIE
A few weeks ago there was a discussion on the Tichy NC&StL flat car. I stated that there was
an article with drawings on this car in the March 1989 Mainline Modeler. As I was starting to convert the car that I did for SP&S bak to the proper car I dug out this issue of Mainline Modeler. The article in that issue was Mont Switzer's excellent offering on building the car along with a grader load. After more searching I determined that the article that I was thinking of was on an ACL flat that was very similar to the Tichy car in the May 1984 Mainline Modeler. I apologize for the fuzzyness of my memory. Mainline Modeler presented such a wealth of information over it's 25 year run. Articles that were not pertinate when the issue came out became pertinate years later. A very treasured time is to just sit and review this collection. So much has been forgotten. Bill Pardie
|
|
|
|
Re: Car Service Rules
Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
Hello Jim & Group,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I have been lurking on this thread and have greatly enjoyed the knowledge that has been learned. That said, I am a bit confused by Jim’s question… Would not any foreign road car loaded in Roseburg head eastward would be considered a proper loading per the Car Service Rules? I do not believe that the “rules” specifically state that the foreign car must be loaded and shipped to a destination on that specific foreign railroad as long as it is headed more or less in the general direction of that home road. Let’s say that load of plywood is billed to a purchaser located in Vinita, Oklahoma, (served by either the MKT or SLSF … I will let you choose which of the two) and that plywood is loaded into a PRR box car. As long as that PRR box car is getting closer to home — closer to Chicago or St. Louis, the two major connection points as an example — the car is being moved in compliance with the Car Service Rules. With the general population ratio of foreign road to home road cars on the SP being anywhere from 3 out of three to perhaps 4 out of 5 box cars it is doubtful if there would be an issue or difficulty having an empty foreign road car available to send eastward. The above is just my thoughts and a crude understanding of the “rules”. I am looking forward to learning more. Cheers, Bill Keene Irvine, CA
|
|
|
|
Re: Broadway Limited 6000 gallon chemical tank car
mwbauers
The system they are using is creating shortages several months before the product is even built.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
That just doesn’t seem to be a healthy sign that the bean counters in charge really know what they are doing. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi
|
|
|
|
Re: Broadway Limited 6000 gallon chemical tank car
SUVCWORR@...
Dealer orders were due 9/4 with a delivery date of spring 2016.
Rich Orr
-----Original Message-----
From: tony tony@... [STMFC] To: STMFC Sent: Sun, Sep 6, 2015 1:35 am Subject: Re: [STMFC] Broadway Limited 6000 gallon chemical tank car
I will definitely want a Penn Salt and a PPG car, maybe others, but these are some way off, are they Not?
Tony Thompson
|
|
|
|
Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..
Schuyler Larrabee
Justin May’s link to this photo: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mkt/mkt2709abp.jpg Shows by the shadow of the ladder that bent ladders not completely parallel to the side of the car are not just a modeler’s problem, but the prototype’s problem too . . .
Schuyler
|
|
|
|
Re: MKT boxcar color and slogan circa 1947-1948?..
Armand Premo
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Speaking of auto boxcars (XA) conspicuously absent
are NYC cars.Armand Premo
|
|
|
|
Intermountain kits & RTR for sale
genegreen1942@...
FOR SALE. Prices as noted below. INTERMOUNTAIN N SCALE 65773 postwar NYC Pacemaker 1948-49 w/Youngstown door 4 available at $10 each plus shipping. 65777 postwar NYC Pacemaker 1960 w/Youngstown door 6 available at $10 each plus shipping. 65778 postwar NYC Pacemaker 1960 w/Superior door 6 available at $10 each plus shipping. PLEASE NOTE: The above are N scale. Below is HO scale. HO Scale undecorated Intermountain kits. All are new, untouched, gray plastic in original boxes. Price per kit is $16.00, plus actual shipping charge. Quantities available as indicated.
ITEM......DESCRIPTION......................................QTY 40495...40' PS-1 standard box car w/7' door....1 40497...40' PS-1 standard box car w/8' door....1 40499...40' PS-1 box car w/6' door.....................1 40599...R-40-23 refrigerator car........................1 40799...10' IH AAR box car 40' w/6'door .......6 40899...10'-6" high AAR box car 40' w/6' door..6 41099...12 panel 40' box car w/6' door.........3 41899...Modified AAR 40' box car....................1 42750A..Caswell gondola with AB Brake.........2 42750K..Caswell gondola with K Brake...........2 42999...Stock car K brake..................................1 43299...Milk car kit..............................................1 CCS1199..ATSF early steel caboose..............1 INTERMOUNTAIN RTR Freight Cars (NOT KITS) 45835-03...40' mod. '37 AAR box car 10'6" Santa Fe Bx-37-Chief...1 $29.60 46072-12...40' WW II emergency box car CNW...................................1 $24.00 46071-16...40' WW II emergency box car Santa Fe............................1 $24.00 Please contact me off list at genegreen1942 at yahoo dot com. Gene Green Out in the Badlands of New Mexico
|
|
|