Date   

Re: Meat Reefers in Produce Service

Tim O'Connor
 


That (contamination/cleaning) -- plus (1) most meat reefers were leased or
owned privately and (2) meat reefers were in more or less steady-state demand,
whereas there were seasonal, regional surpluses of produce reefers. Probably
able to easily obtain hefty numbers of produce reefers for seasonal peak
traffic than to try to locate (and thoroughly sanitize) hundreds of meat
reefers.

Evidence: photos on MEC/BAR of FGE, MDT and NWX reefers during potato season;
photos of BAR and NWX reefers mixed with PFE reefers in California; FGE cars
mixed with WFE cars on GN in Washington.

Conclusion: You get more variety if you model peak season! :-)

Tim O'


More or less zero, according to PFE people. Cross-contamination issues.
Tony Thompson


How common was this practice of using meat reefers in produce service, in this case apples from Washington state, no doubt during peak of the harvest.
Bob Witt


Re: NOT&M box car build

James E Kubanick
 

For those who cannot locate the Storzek kit, Speedwitch still has their SOO kit listed.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV



On Thursday, September 10, 2015 2:46 PM, "Bill Keene wakeene@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Eric,

Thanks.  I see another “fun project” in my future!!

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Sep 10, 2015, at 11:33 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Bill, 
 
Charlie says:
 
Mask  Island just released a set for the NOT&M caboose and it's good for the boxcar as well.
 
 
Here’s the  Mask  Island website.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso,  TX
 
 
 
 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@... ] 
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 10:58 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NOT&M box car build
 


Hello Eric & Group,
 
Thanks for the link to Charlie’s blog. 
 
As I happen to have an “extra” example of the Storzek Sawtooth box car kit on the shelf, this seems like a good use for it. My question is … for those of us that do not have a well developed decal “scrap pile” what would be the recommend decal source?
 
Cheers & Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine ,  CA
 
 
 
On Sep 10, 2015, at 7:03 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 
 
Charlie Duckworth offers build and weathering tips on a Storzek Sawtooth box car kit on the Resin Car Works blog this week. Charlie modified the kit to reflect a NOT&M prototype that was discussed recently here on the STMFC list.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso,  TX
 
 
 






Re: FW: Re: Meat Reefers in Produce Service

Edward
 

Also consider that many major meat packers owned and maintained their own refrigerator cars. They were not used by other shippers and packers paid for their backhaul charges. Companies like Swift, Armour, Wilson, Morrell, etc. Refrigerator cars built to haul hanging meat were specifically designed for that task. 

Meat packers began leasing refrigerator cars after the transition from wood to steel bodied cars as their need for rail transport was declining as well in favor of highway haulage.

Also changing were the ways which meat was being shipped to market, from the former full and half sides for  local butcher shops, to smaller cuts pre-processed for big chain supermarkets and shipped by refrigerator highway trucks.

Ed Bommer 
 


Re: UTLX Class Z Tank Cars

Dave Nelson
 

PRX - The Pennsylvania Refining company. They came up with the name
Penzoil. The company was taken over in 1929 by South Penn Oil, originally
part of the Standard Oil Trust and for a while in Std Oil NJ. The takeover
probably prompted the sale of the cars.



Dave Nelson



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2015 8:15 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] UTLX Class Z Tank Cars








In the 1920's and 30's, UTLX absorbed the tank car fleets of a number of oil
companies. These cars were, typically, built by commercial builders to
other than UTLX designs. When added to the UTLX fleet, they were given the
Class Z. I am planning a presentation for Naperville on these cars and I'm
looking for leads on photos showing these cars in their original
configurations. Some of the acquisitions are as follows:



1933 Pure Oil POX about 2600 cars

1933 Skelly Oil SKYX about 1000 cars

1931 Mid Kansas TROX about 1100 cars

(The TROX marks were also used for Transcontinental Oil)

1933 Barnsdoll BIGX about 1100 cars

1923 White Oil WHOX about 300 cars

1927 Louisiana Refining LORX about 800 cars

1927 Beacon Oil BCNX about 300 cars

1944 Yale Oil YOCX about 70 cars

1929 Pennzoil about 200 cars

(my notes say Pennzoil, but I don't know if that is the actual company name,
or not and I do not know the reporting marks)



I have both of Ed Kaminski's ACF books and there are a couple of builder's
photos for the above in them.



Thanks in advance for any direction/copies anyone can provide. I would like
to correspond with someone who has a 1922 vintage ORER. Some of these
companies are not listed in the 1917 one and are gone by 1930 that I have
access to.



Thanks again,

Steve Hile


Re: Meat Reefers in Produce Service

Tony Thompson
 

More or less zero, according to PFE people. Cross-contamination issues.

Tony Thompson 



On Sep 10, 2015, at 11:11 AM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

A question on the Reefer Madness Group. Does anyone have some facts?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

 

How common was this practice of using meat reefers in produce service, in this case apples from Washington state, no doubt during peak of the harvest.

 

Bob Witt


FW: Re: Meat Reefers in Produce Service

Douglas Harding
 

In general -- Never. But this may be era specific. In the days of ice bunker wood sided reefers NO, just didn’t happen. More modern 40’ steel sided reefers might be used for meat or produce, but by the time meat packers switched to 40’ steel cars most meat was going by truck so it was not an issue.

 

Most meat reefers were in captive service, ie leased to specific meat packers. Meat packers wanted their reefers back as quickly as possible, so no back hauls and no use by anyone else. Meat reefers had requirements that were different than for produce reefers. The only time a non-meat product might be shipped in a meat reefer, would be if the car was off lease and the owner provided it to the apple shipper who was desperate for reefers. Plus most produce shippers, ie the apple shipper in question, would probably reject a meat reefer because it was smaller, and the crates/boxes would not stack correctly in the reefer. Shippers often had crates sized to fit specific reefer dimensions. Meat reefers often had meat rails, maybe larger ice bunkers, etc. which impacted the interior size and made them less desirable to produce shippers.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: NOT&M box car build

Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Eric,

Thanks.  I see another “fun project” in my future!!

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Sep 10, 2015, at 11:33 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Bill, 

 

Charlie says:

 

Mask Island just released a set for the NOT&M caboose and it's good for the boxcar as well.

 

 

Here’s the Mask Island website.

http://maskislanddecals.com/

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] 
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 10:58 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NOT&M box car build

 



Hello Eric & Group,

 

Thanks for the link to Charlie’s blog. 

 

As I happen to have an “extra” example of the Storzek Sawtooth box car kit on the shelf, this seems like a good use for it. My question is … for those of us that do not have a well developed decal “scrap pile” what would be the recommend decal source?

 

Cheers & Happy Modeling,

Bill Keene

Irvine, CA

 

 

 

On Sep 10, 2015, at 7:03 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 

Charlie Duckworth offers build and weathering tips on a Storzek Sawtooth box car kit on the Resin Car Works blog this week. Charlie modified the kit to reflect a NOT&M prototype that was discussed recently here on the STMFC list.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/storzek-soo-line-boxcar-converted-to-a-notm-boxcar/

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 





Re: NOT&M box car build

Eric Hansmann
 

Bill,

 

Charlie says:

 

Mask Island just released a set for the NOT&M caboose and it's good for the boxcar as well.

 

 

Here’s the Mask Island website.

http://maskislanddecals.com/

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 10:58 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NOT&M box car build

 



Hello Eric & Group,

 

Thanks for the link to Charlie’s blog. 

 

As I happen to have an “extra” example of the Storzek Sawtooth box car kit on the shelf, this seems like a good use for it. My question is … for those of us that do not have a well developed decal “scrap pile” what would be the recommend decal source?

 

Cheers & Happy Modeling,

Bill Keene

Irvine, CA

 

 

 

On Sep 10, 2015, at 7:03 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 

Charlie Duckworth offers build and weathering tips on a Storzek Sawtooth box car kit on the Resin Car Works blog this week. Charlie modified the kit to reflect a NOT&M prototype that was discussed recently here on the STMFC list.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/storzek-soo-line-boxcar-converted-to-a-notm-boxcar/

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 



Re: Meat Reefers in Produce Service

 

Probably more than most realize. Makes sense to have a load to back haul.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List
<STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, September 10, 2015 at 1:11 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Meat Reefers in Produce Service







A question on the Reefer Madness Group. Does anyone have some facts?



Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++



How common was this practice of using meat reefers in produce service, in
this case apples from Washington state, no doubt during peak of the harvest.



Bob Witt









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Central of Georgia Medallian Blueprint

Bill Welch
 

Yes, on most of their revenue service freight cars in varying sizes during the 1940's and 50's.

Bill Welch


Meat Reefers in Produce Service

thecitrusbelt@...
 

A question on the Reefer Madness Group. Does anyone have some facts?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

 

How common was this practice of using meat reefers in produce service, in this case apples from Washington state, no doubt during peak of the harvest.

 

Bob Witt


Fw: important

dtnewcomb
 

Hello!

 

Important message, visit http://pinksolution.pl/almost.php?6rrl

 

arch@...

 

 

 


Re: NOT&M box car build

Eric Hansmann
 

That is a very good question, Bill. I hope Charlie chimes in here with the decal detail. I forgot to ask him when we were editing and assembling this for the Resin Car Works blog.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 10:58 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NOT&M box car build

 



Hello Eric & Group,

 

Thanks for the link to Charlie’s blog. 

 

As I happen to have an “extra” example of the Storzek Sawtooth box car kit on the shelf, this seems like a good use for it. My question is … for those of us that do not have a well developed decal “scrap pile” what would be the recommend decal source?

 

Cheers & Happy Modeling,

Bill Keene

Irvine, CA

 

 

 

On Sep 10, 2015, at 7:03 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

 

Charlie Duckworth offers build and weathering tips on a Storzek Sawtooth box car kit on the Resin Car Works blog this week. Charlie modified the kit to reflect a NOT&M prototype that was discussed recently here on the STMFC list.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/storzek-soo-line-boxcar-converted-to-a-notm-boxcar/

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 



Re: NOT&M box car build

Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hello Eric & Group,

Thanks for the link to Charlie’s blog. 

As I happen to have an “extra” example of the Storzek Sawtooth box car kit on the shelf, this seems like a good use for it. My question is … for those of us that do not have a well developed decal “scrap pile” what would be the recommend decal source?

Cheers & Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



On Sep 10, 2015, at 7:03 AM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Charlie Duckworth offers build and weathering tips on a Storzek Sawtooth box car kit on the Resin Car Works blog this week. Charlie modified the kit to reflect a NOT&M prototype that was discussed recently here on the STMFC list.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/storzek-soo-line-boxcar-converted-to-a-notm-boxcar/

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 




Central of Georgia Medallian Blueprint

rwitt_2000
 

FYI blueprint on eBay...

Was this ever used on any of their freight cars?

Original 1950 CENTRAL OF GEORGIA Paint Pattern Medallion Blueprint

 

Regards,

Bob Witt



Re: CNW 77666 rebuit war emergency boxcar

Seth Lakin
 

Both Intermountain and Sunshine offers kits for the CNW war emergency boxcars.

From the Sunshine Models data sheet for the 1943 built War-Emergency boxcars.
CNW 77416-77748 (Even numbers) Pullman, Viking Roof, Youngstown Door, Apex Running Board
CNW 77750-78248 (Even numbers) Pullman, Viking Roof, Superior Door, Apex Running Board
CNW 79250-80250 (Even numbers) ACF Murphy Panel Roof, Superior Door, Gypsum Running Board

The 79250-80250 (even) was rebuilt by the CNW in 1963, keeping the same car numbers. The cars were resheathed with steel and the door opening was stretched to 9 foot. The doors were also stretched by adding a three foot section to the center of the door.

A 1971 ORER shows 454 of the 79250-80250 series, while the a 1978 issue shows 0.

Another picture of a rebuilt car appears here

The rebuilt has been on my hopefully some day project for a few years. However there may be a resin kit out there but I have not been able to find it. In the recent modeling press, in an advertisement for a right angle clamp, there appears to be a side and an end in the clamp for the rebuilt boxcar.

Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN


Re: CNW 77666 rebuit war emergency boxcar

Clark Propst
 

According to the CNW color book they were built in 43-44 and rebuilt in 63.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


NOT&M box car build

Eric Hansmann
 

Charlie Duckworth offers build and weathering tips on a Storzek Sawtooth box car kit on the Resin Car Works blog this week. Charlie modified the kit to reflect a NOT&M prototype that was discussed recently here on the STMFC list.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/storzek-soo-line-boxcar-converted-to-a-notm-boxcar/

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 


Re: Car Service Rules

caboose9792@...
 

Since your asking how it was done not how it was supposed to be done I've added some in site on how it was done. names or railroads are omitted to protect the guilty were railroad rules or laws broken from atlest the 70's well back into the steam era..
 
In a message dated 9/3/2015 10:20:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
Hello friends,

  I'm back from the PNW (Portland 2015) and would like to
discuss -again- the car service rules.  But not from the
viewpoint of the rules themselves but rather looking at
"the actual practices" (the every day realities).  The following
is primarily about box cars and how they were/weren't
dealt with ... please don't muddy it up with the considerations
of "special equipment".  I'd like to understand more about how
the ubiquitous box car was handled ...

  My first question is - has anyone actually talked to someone
                                        who worked in the jobs that made the
                                        decisions of "which empties in the yard
                                        will be sent out to be loaded"?
                                           Is there anyone on this list who actually
                                        did this work in the time frame of this list?
                                        (Or at least in the 60's.)

  Who is it that -actually- makes the decisions? 
Yard clerk in conjunction with car distributor and car department/car man.
 
For instance - did
the crew in the yard actually work from a switch list for empties
that was "by the car numbers" ... or did they just as often take
the "first 5 empty box cars they could find" and put those on the
local to be delivered for loading? 
Not all empty cars are the same. Plain cars that are in general service are supposed to be graded as to suitability for loading. The lowest grades of cars can be sent home as "bad order" if not needed under the bad order rules. That is to keep cars in poor condition from being sent out to the system with a poor chance of being reloaded, forcing railroads to pay per dem on cars they cant load.

Also car maybe empty but still restricted from being loaded. Commodity restrictions such as flour, sugar, and cement come to mind as the most common. Also cars that had restrictions on use like auto parts racks or other equipment. Third group are those assigned to equipment pools and got billed back to origan when empty back were they came from usually by reverse route. 
 
 Last restriction is by contamination or risk of contamination by previous loading. Pesticides or other toxic goods could contaminate the car and if then used for bulk grain could than contaminate the grain. Same with loads that had a strong odor and the lining absorbed the smell could than affect future loads.  
And did the crew on the local
actually deliver cars to be loaded by car number - or did they put
the easiest empty car they had in the string in the current
industry spot?
Depended upon the industry. Some were rather easy going others gave switch list when you arrived listing what they wanted there. Also extra switching like moving cars around was a billable switch charge. So moving a car that was partly unloaded at the main plant got a switch charge if it was moved to the warehouse to be finished unloading when if it was another part of the plant. Some crews had an "informal" arrangement swapping goods or alcohol for a "free" switch. If a switch was $10 or $20, a $5 bottle of liquor could provide a cost savings for everyone but the railroad. 

Some industries like grain elevators and coal mines and power plants used a system in order to keep the demurrage under control, arriving cars would go to the rear of the cars already on hand. Also cars that were not fully paid, that is had money due to be paid and the company did not have a credit account the railroad could bill, the cars for that customer would be held off their siding, usually were the agent could keep an eye on the cars until the customer paid the agent. Locations were there was no agent was a "prepay" station and all charges had to be settled before a load could be delevered.

  Related question - didn't the conductor on the local that was
delivering cars for loading have the "final say" about whether
or not they would be doing extra moves to deliver a 'better'
box car (by the Car Service Rules) to a particular industry?
No the billing would have the final say besides loaded waybill there were also empty waybills that specified were the empty cars were going. A conductor might be able to haggle with the yard crew at a terminal and get another car. A customer might take a 6' door car but would prefer an 8' door car. As for grade of car itself, the railroads tried to use the lowest grade they could get away with as use and abuse would slowly de-rate the interior.

  And what about this question - did the clerks who made up
the list of cars to be delivered to an industry actually know
what would be loaded into that particular car (where it would
be routed) ... before the car was pulled from the empties in the
yard?
Sometimes. Usually the had a clue but a customer might decide to rout a car differently or not even had a route picked out. Also a customer could change a destination after a car was spotted and the railroad might not be informed to find an appropriate car.

Example a company in Chicago might be loading a car of soup to New York city. The railroad picks out a PRR car that meets the requirements of the shipper and spots the car. An unusual early snow in Denver CO causes a run on soup. The shipper could hand the billing paperwork over to the agent for the PRR car to go to Denver then request another car for New York.
 
Also shippers were allowed to divert loads.
 
Example, So the whole shipment above is billed and pulled a shipper has the right to divert the load also a diverted load can be contrary to the car service rules and not be considered a violation.

  I've always thought that an industry called in an order for a car
(or cars) of a particular type ("Send us 4 boxcars") and the RR
delivered ... but the RR didn't know what the routing of any
individual car would be until after it was loaded.  Not true?  
 
Sometimes that's true,  A shipper that has a pool of cars available might request how many ever cars not caring what road is on the side of the car. So an auto parts car might go to a different plant say carrying bins of brake drums to a different plant from the trip before and the pool members and the manufacture settle out the account perodicly.

  What I'm really asking is "how often were the car service rules
-actually- followed?" ... and the accompanying question "how often
were they not followed?".  My suspicion is that the expediency of
"grabbing the easiest available" car was "the rule rather than the
exception".
I'd say it ran about 75% of the time. remember also getting a car in a timeframe acceptable became increasingly important as trucking grew. If a shipper need a car urgently tomorrow, making one happen was more important than the service rules. After all if they got no boxcar they could call for a truck.

   Yes, of course the RR knew that "most (all?) of the box cars being
 sent today to the mill in Eugene would be loaded with lumber".
 That's not my question - my question is did they know the
 destination of the cars ===> when the industry asked for the cars?
 And even if they did just how important was it to them to follow
 the car service rules as opposed to filling the demands? 
Filling the demand was paramount, no load no income for anyone. When filling the orders they take from what's available and mach them to the service rules the best they can. Usually car distribution is on a division or higher level and try to match loads with the cars on hand and send home the surplus.


  Consider this as well - we've been focused on lumber recently -
what about loads of canned fish/food from a cannery or loads of
flower bulbs or ...  
Each could require different cars even if it came down to how its packed. Fish id in consumer cans would be a high grade car most likely where shipped in bulk in barrels which could leek or seep would get low grade cars. Fish scrap in bulk would get lowest grade cars that were available. Flower bulbs might get a reefer or insulated boxcar depending on route season and expected temperature. Freezing bulbs and then letting them warm up could cause them to sprout early creating a damage claim. 
 
 

                                                                                                         - Jim B.
 
I have empty car bills both blank and filled out agents car sheets car grading forms and books and more I'm going to make available tomorrow. I'll send a link to the group as I'm loading them onto my server rather than to repeatedly load them onto multiple groups that have this or recently had this discussion going on. 
 
Mark Rickert
(Going to start uploading them once I send this message)

 


Soo Line freightcar book back in stock

Dennis Storzek
 

Just a brief note. I was at the Soo Line Historical & Technical Society Archives building yesterday, and the SECOND PRINTING of Soo Line Freight Equipment and Cabooses had just arrived, so they should be back in stock at the "company store." Here's a link direct to the order page:

SLHTS Online Store

Dennis Storzek

 



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