Date   

ADMIN:Re: Santa fe 1489-1498 Diners

Mikebrock
 

Al Smith says:

"The Passenger Car Library Volume 5 page 72 shows plans for the above referenced diners. The plans show a 36 seat diner with 4 seat tables on the aisle side and 2 seat tables on the kitchen side. This is opposite from the 600 class diners, which show the 2 seat tables on the aisle. The car is 83' to couplers, with 1'4" from coupler to end of car body, making the car body 81'4"."


Er...uh...Al, I realize that the diners carried food, water, etc, but generally I would think that such stuff was consumed by the occupants as opposed to being considered as freight. I think you probably meant this to go to the PCL or perhaps a Santa Fe group.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Santa fe 1489-1498 Diners

Allan Smith
 

The Passenger Car Library Volume 5 page 72 shows plans for the above referenced diners. The plans show a 36 seat diner with 4 seat tables on the aisle side and 2 seat tables on the kitchen side. This is opposite from the 600 class diners, which show the 2 seat tables on the aisle. The car is 83' to couplers, with 1'4" from coupler to end of car body, making the car body 81'4".
These 10 dining cars 1489-1498 were built to upgrade the Super Chief to daily service. When the SC was re equiped in 1950-51 the cars were assigned to the Chief.

Al Smith
Sonora CA


Re: different grades of coal

Charles Tapper
 

I'm confident that is generally correct.

I think that relates to how the screening process, partly gravity fed, works. The large chunks are going to pass over the screens so I'll bet the coarser sizes are on the outer loaders and the finer on the inner loaders relative to source point.

Would be an interesting addition to coal ops.

Charlie Tapper


On Sep 20, 2015, at 11:06 AM, destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

This discussion is on two lists concurrently. I sent this link to the other list... Lots of pix of different loading arrangements. The older facilities seem to consistently load one grade per track.

http://www.coaleducation.org/coalhistory/Coal_Preparation_Transportation.htm

Dennis Storzek.


Re: different grades of coal

destorzek@...
 

This discussion is on two lists concurrently. I sent this link to the other list... Lots of pix of different loading arrangements. The older facilities seem to consistently load one grade per track.

http://www.coaleducation.org/coalhistory/Coal_Preparation_Transportation.htm

Dennis Storzek.


Re: different grades of coal

Chris Van Wagoner
 

Sizing of coal was critical for the destination and use. Each size had a specific use - from steam coal to fine pea coal for home heating. The size of coal used in locomotive mechanical stokers needed to be smaller than the pieces of coal used for hand firing. As a result, most coal docks had two chutes to each track. Stoker coal was about 1"-2" pieces, while hand fired coal was larger, from about 4" to 6".


Broken (4" x 8")

Stove (2-7/16" x 1 5/8")

Nut (1-5/8 " x 13/16")

Pea (13/16" x 9/16")

Buckwheat (9/16" x 5/16")

Rice (5/16" x 3/16")

Barley (3/16" x 3/32")

Buckwheat #4 (3/32" x 3/64")

Buckwheat #5 (3/64" x 100M)


Coal breaker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Re: different grades of coal

Charles Tapper
 

Looking further at drawings of a tipple in the aforementioned book, It looks like coarser sizes that pass screens would go directly to loading chutes, and various screened sizes being pulled off traversing vibrating screens. Looking more carefully it would seem that one loader would get larger sizes and other loaders finer sizes. There could be washing processes, storage bins, picking tables in the process.

Check your prototype.

Charlie Tapper
OKC


On Sep 20, 2015, at 12:27 AM, Charles Tapper <charlestapper@...> wrote:

A quick look at "Appalachian Coal Mines and Railroads" shows quite different size loads coupled together at the tipple loading tracks in several pics. Also a  pic of a hopper with large blocks of coal that are being "hand laid" at least on the top in one picture. Pics of sorting tables and loaders et al.

Another picture suggests different tracks for different sizes, but that could be just a publicity shot for that supplier.

Of course practices vary with the quality of the coal, maturity, facilities (truck dump versus tipple), markets etc. Some stuff was simply shipped run-of-mine due to size of the operation.

Charles Tapper
OKC or Broken Arrow




On Sep 19, 2015, at 12:57 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I completely agree with this line of thinking, and have objected to some of the others at my RR club who removed the large loads from hoppers because “they’re not realistic.”  I have a question, though.  Are the cars in that photo classified for trains?  If they were not, it would suggest that various grades could be loaded as cars were pulled through the loader.  For that reason, I think that they have been classified and the cuts shown in the photo are destined for departure as trains.

 

Schuyler

 


Subject: Re: [STMFC] different grades of coal

Scott and friends,

Besides the various grades of coal, there are some interesting details to note here. Some, but not all, of the finer grades of coal were dumped in parts rather than as a continuous flow. This caused the loads to have definite cross-car ridges. Some of the coal is actually sitting on the top edge of the sides and has yet to have fallen off. Finally, notice the footprints on some of the finer loads, probably left by a brakeman.

Most of us who run loaded coal cars use commercial castings that have as much individuality as Vienna sausages and miss these details.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/19/15 1:20 AM, blindog@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

http://www.corbu.us/Garys-L&N/Garys-L&N.html

The photo near the bottom of the page looking down the tracks in a yard (Bluefield WV on the N&W perhaps?) nicely illustrates the different sizes of coal that used to be shipped. Now from an operational and layout design standpoint, would each of these grades of coal have their own loading track at a coal mine or could more than one size be loaded on a track?

Steam era modelers need a LOT more variety in the sizes of coal in their hoppers cars.

Scott Chatfield

 


Re: different grades of coal

Charles Tapper
 

A quick look at "Appalachian Coal Mines and Railroads" shows quite different size loads coupled together at the tipple loading tracks in several pics. Also a  pic of a hopper with large blocks of coal that are being "hand laid" at least on the top in one picture. Pics of sorting tables and loaders et al.

Another picture suggests different tracks for different sizes, but that could be just a publicity shot for that supplier.

Of course practices vary with the quality of the coal, maturity, facilities (truck dump versus tipple), markets etc. Some stuff was simply shipped run-of-mine due to size of the operation.

Charles Tapper
OKC or Broken Arrow




On Sep 19, 2015, at 12:57 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

I completely agree with this line of thinking, and have objected to some of the others at my RR club who removed the large loads from hoppers because “they’re not realistic.”  I have a question, though.  Are the cars in that photo classified for trains?  If they were not, it would suggest that various grades could be loaded as cars were pulled through the loader.  For that reason, I think that they have been classified and the cuts shown in the photo are destined for departure as trains.

 

Schuyler

 


Subject: Re: [STMFC] different grades of coal

Scott and friends,

Besides the various grades of coal, there are some interesting details to note here. Some, but not all, of the finer grades of coal were dumped in parts rather than as a continuous flow. This caused the loads to have definite cross-car ridges. Some of the coal is actually sitting on the top edge of the sides and has yet to have fallen off. Finally, notice the footprints on some of the finer loads, probably left by a brakeman.

Most of us who run loaded coal cars use commercial castings that have as much individuality as Vienna sausages and miss these details.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/19/15 1:20 AM, blindog@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

http://www.corbu.us/Garys-L&N/Garys-L&N.html

The photo near the bottom of the page looking down the tracks in a yard (Bluefield WV on the N&W perhaps?) nicely illustrates the different sizes of coal that used to be shipped. Now from an operational and layout design standpoint, would each of these grades of coal have their own loading track at a coal mine or could more than one size be loaded on a track?

Steam era modelers need a LOT more variety in the sizes of coal in their hoppers cars.

Scott Chatfield

 


Re: different grades of coal

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I completely agree with this line of thinking, and have objected to some of the others at my RR club who removed the large loads from hoppers because “they’re not realistic.”  I have a question, though.  Are the cars in that photo classified for trains?  If they were not, it would suggest that various grades could be loaded as cars were pulled through the loader.  For that reason, I think that they have been classified and the cuts shown in the photo are destined for departure as trains.

 

Schuyler

 


Subject: Re: [STMFC] different grades of coal

Scott and friends,

Besides the various grades of coal, there are some interesting details to note here. Some, but not all, of the finer grades of coal were dumped in parts rather than as a continuous flow. This caused the loads to have definite cross-car ridges. Some of the coal is actually sitting on the top edge of the sides and has yet to have fallen off. Finally, notice the footprints on some of the finer loads, probably left by a brakeman.

Most of us who run loaded coal cars use commercial castings that have as much individuality as Vienna sausages and miss these details.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/19/15 1:20 AM, blindog@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

http://www.corbu.us/Garys-L&N/Garys-L&N.html

The photo near the bottom of the page looking down the tracks in a yard (Bluefield WV on the N&W perhaps?) nicely illustrates the different sizes of coal that used to be shipped. Now from an operational and layout design standpoint, would each of these grades of coal have their own loading track at a coal mine or could more than one size be loaded on a track?

Steam era modelers need a LOT more variety in the sizes of coal in their hoppers cars.

Scott Chatfield

 


seasonal reefer traffic

Tony Thompson
 

I have just posted to my blog a description of the ways I have implemented recognition of seasonal variations in crops harvested, and thus of reefer shipments, on my layout. Though specific to my modeled area, it may provide ideas of how to create such patterns for other areas. If you're interested, it's at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2015/09/seasonality-of-crops-and-traffic.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: different grades of coal

Eric Hansmann
 

The modeling era will also impact the type of coal loads seen on railroads. In
the future, beyond 1960, power plants preferred the smaller sizes of coal.

On the other end of the STMFC spectrum in the true steam era, run of mine loads
are much more common and smaller Nut size loads are not very common. This is
possibly because fewer coal mines had much screening installed on their load out
tipples, or the screening was just for one size. Tipples eventually became
larger with the addition of more screen sizes. As time progressed, run of mine
coal would be sent to a cleaning plant for more efficient rock removal and to
sort the coal into finer sizes.

I model 1926 and coal loads exhibit noticeable piece size differences compared
to images from the 1950s.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/



On September 19, 2015 at 2:45 AM "Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC]"
<STMFC@...> wrote:


Scott and friends,

Besides the various grades of coal, there are some interesting details
to note here. Some, but not all, of the finer grades of coal were dumped
in parts rather than as a continuous flow. This caused the loads to have
definite cross-car ridges. Some of the coal is actually sitting on the
top edge of the sides and has yet to have fallen off. Finally, notice
the footprints on some of the finer loads, probably left by a brakeman.

Most of us who run loaded coal cars use commercial castings that have as
much individuality as Vienna sausages and miss these details.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/19/15 1:20 AM, blindog@... [STMFC] wrote:

http://www.corbu.us/Garys-L&N/Garys-L&N.html

The photo near the bottom of the page looking down the tracks in a
yard (Bluefield WV on the N&W perhaps?) nicely illustrates the
different sizes of coal that used to be shipped. Now from an
operational and layout design standpoint, would each of these grades
of coal have their own loading track at a coal mine or could more than
one size be loaded on a track?

Steam era modelers need a LOT more variety in the sizes of coal in
their hoppers cars.

Scott Chatfield

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX


Re: different grades of coal

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Scott and friends,

Besides the various grades of coal, there are some interesting details to note here. Some, but not all, of the finer grades of coal were dumped in parts rather than as a continuous flow. This caused the loads to have definite cross-car ridges. Some of the coal is actually sitting on the top edge of the sides and has yet to have fallen off. Finally, notice the footprints on some of the finer loads, probably left by a brakeman.

Most of us who run loaded coal cars use commercial castings that have as much individuality as Vienna sausages and miss these details.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/19/15 1:20 AM, blindog@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

http://www.corbu.us/Garys-L&N/Garys-L&N.html

The photo near the bottom of the page looking down the tracks in a yard (Bluefield WV on the N&W perhaps?) nicely illustrates the different sizes of coal that used to be shipped. Now from an operational and layout design standpoint, would each of these grades of coal have their own loading track at a coal mine or could more than one size be loaded on a track?

Steam era modelers need a LOT more variety in the sizes of coal in their hoppers cars.

Scott Chatfield



different grades of coal

D. Scott Chatfield
 

http://www.corbu.us/Garys-L&N/Garys-L&N.html

The photo near the bottom of the page looking down the tracks in a yard (Bluefield WV on the N&W perhaps?) nicely illustrates the different sizes of coal that used to be shipped. Now from an operational and layout design standpoint, would each of these grades of coal have their own loading track at a coal mine or could more than one size be loaded on a track?

Steam era modelers need a LOT more variety in the sizes of coal in their hoppers cars.

Scott Chatfield


RPM Naperville Room

aaejj2j
 

Anyone wish to share a room at the RPM Naperville seminar hotel? I have a room reservation (two beds) for Thursday and Friday nights.
Tyrone Johnsen
Rockford, IL



Re: NKP-B&O-C&O-ERIE-NP Alt Std 2 bay hoppers

SUVCWORR@...
 

Tim,

The B&O acquired them as transfers from the C&O when the C&O took financial control of the B&O.  There were a number of classes of B&O cars that were old C&O cars sent to the B&O to shore-up their fleet.

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Sep 18, 2015 2:47 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NKP-B&O-C&O-ERIE-NP Alt Std 2 bay hoppers


Dear Sheriff & Deputy - NOT a for sale question !

Did the B&O own any of
these AMC cars ?? I thought all of the B&O
cars were AAR standard.

Tim
O'Connor



>2 ERIE #47151 in black as-delivered 12-41 w/ small ERIE diamond
herald ..........$21.00/ea
>4 NP #47152 in black as-delivered 1-40 
................................................................$22.00/ea
>2
C&O #47155 with arch end, as-delivered 3-37 
...................................................$21.00/ea 
>1 Nickel Plate
#47157 as-delivered 3-42 arch end 
................................................$21.00
>2 B&O #47158   repaint
date 7-60  large "B&O"
.....................................................$21.00/ea
>
>Thanks,
>-Andy
Carlson
>Ojai CA



------------------------------------
Posted by: Tim
O'Connor
<timboconnor@...>
------------------------------------


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Re: NKP-B&O-C&O-ERIE-NP Alt Std 2 bay hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

Dear Sheriff & Deputy - NOT a for sale question !

Did the B&O own any of these AMC cars ?? I thought all of the B&O
cars were AAR standard.

Tim O'Connor

2 ERIE #47151 in black as-delivered 12-41 w/ small ERIE diamond herald ..........$21.00/ea
4 NP #47152 in black as-delivered 1-40 ................................................................$22.00/ea
2 C&O #47155 with arch end, as-delivered 3-37 ...................................................$21.00/ea
1 Nickel Plate #47157 as-delivered 3-42 arch end ................................................$21.00
2 B&O #47158 repaint date 7-60 large "B&O" .....................................................$21.00/ea

Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


ALMOST a freight car photo

Schuyler Larrabee
 

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-18-15/C1624.jpg

 

Tantalizing shot of a coal-loaded gon at the right side of the photo. K brake gear prominently visible.

 

One of those photos you’d like to be able to walk into for a while.


Schuyler


Re: $18 off: NKP-B&O-C&O-ERIE-NP Alt Std 2 bay hoppers

WaltGCox@...
 

OOPS again, This time I was trying to change the address but accidentally ran the cursor over the send button. Sorry once again. Walt :

 

Hi Andy,
If they are still available I'll take the 2 Erie cars. How much S & H for two cars? Walt
 
 


ERIE Alt Std Hoppers-more coming next week

Andy Carlson
 

I have more ERIE hoppers coming to me next week. I can now offer up to 6 different #s.
Thanks,
-Andy


Re: $18 off: NKP-B&O-C&O-ERIE-NP Alt Std 2 bay hoppers

Andy Carlson
 

Sorry Walt, but those Erie cars went 1st, quite quickly, too.
-Andy Carlson


From: "WaltGCox@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] $18 off: NKP-B&O-C&O-ERIE-NP Alt Std 2 bay hoppers

 
Hi Andy,
If they are still available I'll take the 2 Erie cars. How much S & H for two cars? Walt
 
In a message dated 9/18/2015 11:55:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
 
Hello-
I have a few remaining numbers of Intermountain Railway CO. HO Alternate Standard 2-bay open hopper cars which I am offering for sale. All have different numbers, no duplications. All have an MSRP of 38.95, except the NP's 39.95. All are pictured on the Intermountain web site.

2 ERIE #47151 in black as-delivered 12-41 w/ small ERIE diamond herald ..........$21.00/ea
4 NP #47152 in black as-delivered 1-40  ................................................................$22.00/ea
2 C&O #47155 with arch end, as-delivered 3-37  ...................................................$21.00/ea
1 Nickel Plate #47157 as-delivered 3-42 arch end  ................................................$21.00
2 B&O #47158   repaint date 7-60  large "B&O" .....................................................$21.00/ea

Buyer to pay shipping of $3.85 and up. I accept checks and money orders. For a small fee, I accept PayPal. If interested, please contact me OFF-LIST at

Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



Re: $18 off: NKP-B&O-C&O-ERIE-NP Alt Std 2 bay hoppers

WaltGCox@...
 

Hi Andy,
If they are still available I'll take the 2 Erie cars. How much S & H for two cars? Walt
 

In a message dated 9/18/2015 11:55:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:
 

Hello-
I have a few remaining numbers of Intermountain Railway CO. HO Alternate Standard 2-bay open hopper cars which I am offering for sale. All have different numbers, no duplications. All have an MSRP of 38.95, except the NP's 39.95. All are pictured on the Intermountain web site.

2 ERIE #47151 in black as-delivered 12-41 w/ small ERIE diamond herald ..........$21.00/ea
4 NP #47152 in black as-delivered 1-40  ................................................................$22.00/ea
2 C&O #47155 with arch end, as-delivered 3-37  ...................................................$21.00/ea
1 Nickel Plate #47157 as-delivered 3-42 arch end  ................................................$21.00
2 B&O #47158   repaint date 7-60  large "B&O" .....................................................$21.00/ea

Buyer to pay shipping of $3.85 and up. I accept checks and money orders. For a small fee, I accept PayPal. If interested, please contact me OFF-LIST at

Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

57261 - 57280 of 194639