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Re: USRA
david ellzey
Yes I got some good suggestions from both of them. Tony T. said the SP didn't have anything similar to the accurail car. Eric H. said the accurail car is based on a Canadian car mostly. He sent some very handy information a site called trainlife.com. There is an article on the accurail boxcar. No one contacted me offline. I get the impression that the accurail car is not highly regarded among prototype modelers:-) Dave
From: "'paul.doggett2472' paul.doggett2472@... [STMFC]" To: STMFC@... Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 4:13 AM Subject: [STMFC] USRA I see you got some suggestions from Tony Thompson and Eric Hannsman they are both very knowledgeable did anyone contact you off line?. Paul Sent from Samsung mobile
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Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
Marty McGuirk
For anything you've ever wanted to know about CN steam-era boxcars see - Dave, While I acknowledge CN cars would have likely to be seen less frequently on the T&NO than, say, the GN or Maine Central, the fact is the CN (and CP) represented a very large percentage of the North American boxcar fleet - so many that it's hard to imagine not having one or two show up on a railroad, even in the deep south. Search the list archives for never-ending discussions of "boxcar percentages" and "freight car fleet percentages" and similar terms and you'll see how much time and effort has been expended on statistical research and sheer speculation on this topic. So if you include one or two CN cars in your car fleet no one vaguely familiar with steam era freight car distribution would bat an eye. But the cars represented by the Accurail cars are not a terribly large percentage of the CN car fleet, meaning that if you want to have one or two Canadian National cars I don't think either of them should be the Accurail car, especially if you're modeling any time after 1940 or so. CN had the single largest fleet of 40'-6" 10-panel steel cars built to the "1937 AAR" design (with some of them having unique variations of ends and roofs.) If you wanted to have one or two representative CN cars for a late steam era/transition era road those would be the ones I'd suggest. Marty
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USRA
paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
I see you got some suggestions from Tony Thompson and Eric Hannsman they are both very knowledgeable did anyone contact you off line?. Paul Sent from Samsung mobile
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Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
david ellzey
That's just from my vague recollections of the 1950's, not seeing any Canadian rail cars here in Louisiana. Dave
From: "Eric Hansmann eric@... [STMFC]" To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars I recommend you get a copy of the ORER for the year of your focus or the year before. Compile some fleet numbers and check what older cars are still running. The 1953 K brake ban sent lots of freight cars to scrap. And I would not ignore the Canadian box car fleet. Newsprint from Canada was used all over. Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX
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Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
Eric Hansmann
I recommend you get a copy of the ORER for the year of your focus or the year before. Compile some fleet numbers and check what older cars are still running. The 1953 K brake ban sent lots of freight cars to scrap. And I would not ignore the Canadian box car fleet. Newsprint from Canada was used all over. Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX
On Oct 26, 2015, at 8:15 PM, david ellzey davidellzey1@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
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Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
david ellzey
Let me clarify that last email, I meant slim chance of Canadian cars down here on the T&NO. Dave
From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
T&NO had nothing like this. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
Tony Thompson
T&NO had nothing like this. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
david ellzey
The USRA clones seem close to the Accurail cars without doing precise measuring. With revised underframe, separate grabs and ladders they would look quite decent. Modeling the T&NO, I would have to shy away from Canadian prototypes, which be the closest match. Thanks for all the info, it will be a big help. Dave
From: "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]" To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 8:12 PM Subject: RE: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars Technically, those were not USRA cars as
the USRA stopped functioning on March 1, 1920. Cars built during the 1920s that
mostly followed a USRA design have commonly been called clones in the model
press. True USRA box cars did not have 7/8 corrugated steel ends or Hutchins
roof hardware.
For a pocket summary of the USRA and a
list of the car assignments they made, check out this page on my blog.
Here’s a magazine to unearth. The February 1993 RMJ article is a
good reference for the Accurail 4100 and 4300 series kits. Here's a link to
review Richard Hendrickson's original article. Most of this article remains
available on the Trainlife site. Page 20 and additional pages go dead, but
clicking on the Show Page Text link offers a hint of the content without
images. It seems there was no data table provided for the article.
From Richard's article, I gather the following prototypes
are best reflected by the Accurail 4100 series model.
CN 500500-503499 - 1000 cars built in 1923, 1924, and 1927,
for 3000 total cars.
Additionally, automobile box cars (XA) built to the same
design, but with an added half door for the 10-foot door opening.
CN 580000-580999 - 1000 cars built in 1923
GTW 581000-581999 - 1000 cars built in 1923
GT 33000-35999 - 200 cars built in 1923 but with corrugated
steel ends (4300 series kits)
Many of these XA class cars were rebuilt in the 1930s with a
narrower door opening and only a single door per side, becoming XM class cars.
Additionally, there were similar prototypes on the CB&Q,
CNJ, and SP Lines (to name a few) that differed in overall height and hardware
appliances.
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
From:
STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 5:38 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars Some of the
USRA-type cars built in the 1920's had 7/8 corrugated ends and Hutchins roofs
like the Accurail cars. Would the basic dimensions be correct?
Dave
From: "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 6:03 PM Subject: RE: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars There
are several differences between the Accurail models and the USRA
single-sheathed box cars. The ends, roof, underframe, and the truss components
are all different.
Eric
Hansmann
El Paso, TX
From: STMFC@...
[mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 4:56 PM To: yahoogroups Subject: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars Can anyone
tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or
USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the
later 50's.
The ends are
inverted dreadnaught on SP cars.
Other roads,
MKT, CB&Q, and DM&IR have the 7/8 corrugated ends as on some of the
Accurail models, so I would consider modeling them.
I have a
small fleet of these cars stored up and would like to detail them into accurate
models. Any help would be appreciated.
Dave
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Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
Eric Hansmann
Technically, those were not USRA cars as the USRA stopped functioning on March 1, 1920. Cars built during the 1920s that mostly followed a USRA design have commonly been called clones in the model press. True USRA box cars did not have 7/8 corrugated steel ends or Hutchins roof hardware.
For a pocket summary of the USRA and a list of the car assignments they made, check out this page on my blog. http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/usra-freight-car-assignments/
Here’s a magazine to unearth. The February 1993 RMJ article is a good reference for the Accurail 4100 and 4300 series kits. Here's a link to review Richard Hendrickson's original article. Most of this article remains available on the Trainlife site. Page 20 and additional pages go dead, but clicking on the Show Page Text link offers a hint of the content without images. It seems there was no data table provided for the article. http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/144/10388/february-1993-page-14
From Richard's article, I gather the following prototypes are best reflected by the Accurail 4100 series model.
CN 500500-503499 - 1000 cars built in 1923, 1924, and 1927, for 3000 total cars.
Additionally, automobile box cars (XA) built to the same design, but with an added half door for the 10-foot door opening.
CN 580000-580999 - 1000 cars built in 1923 GTW 581000-581999 - 1000 cars built in 1923 GT 33000-35999 - 200 cars built in 1923 but with corrugated steel ends (4300 series kits)
Many of these XA class cars were rebuilt in the 1930s with a narrower door opening and only a single door per side, becoming XM class cars.
Additionally, there were similar prototypes on the CB&Q, CNJ, and SP Lines (to name a few) that differed in overall height and hardware appliances.
Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX
From:
STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Some of the USRA-type cars built in the 1920's had 7/8 corrugated ends and Hutchins roofs like the Accurail cars. Would the basic dimensions be correct? Dave
From: "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 6:03 PM Subject: RE: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
There are several differences between the Accurail models and the USRA single-sheathed box cars. The ends, roof, underframe, and the truss components are all different.
Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX
From: STMFC@...
[mailto:STMFC@...]
Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's. The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars. Other roads, MKT, CB&Q, and DM&IR have the 7/8 corrugated ends as on some of the Accurail models, so I would consider modeling them. I have a small fleet of these cars stored up and would like to detail them into accurate models. Any help would be appreciated. Dave
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Re: Naperville
frograbbit602
Guessing most are still recovering from travel time home or still processing and digesting all the information gathered from seminars or exchange with others or being fired up from the event have headed for the railroad modeling bench to finish or start a new project preventing them from posting regarding the event.
I as other attendees I have talked to had a great time. Lester Breuer
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Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
david ellzey
The B-50-13 and 14's are of more interest to me. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. You can contact me offline if you wish. Thanks, Dave
From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars David Ellzey wrote:
As Eric Hansmann pointed out, the Accurail model has some differences. But more important for SP modeling, all its original USRA single-sheathed cars in revenue service were rebuilt in 1949-50 into steel-sheathed cars, which bore almost no relation to any Accurail model. I can direct you to published info on those cars if that is really what you are looking for. The SP cars were built with entirely conventional corrugated ends, and when rebuilt, had their height extended with parts of other corrugated ends. I don't know what you are referring to by "dreadnaught," unless you are actually talking about the ARA-like cars SP built in the mid-1920s (changed, however, from the ARA design). IF you mean those, I can make suggestions. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
Tony Thompson
THe SP cars were exact USRA cars and were built in 1919. Some had Hutchins roofs, some did not; all had 5-5-5 ends. Can't speak for other roads. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
david ellzey
Some of the USRA-type cars built in the 1920's had 7/8 corrugated ends and Hutchins roofs like the Accurail cars. Would the basic dimensions be correct? Dave
From: "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]" To: STMFC@... Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 6:03 PM Subject: RE: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars There are several differences between the
Accurail models and the USRA single-sheathed box cars. The ends, roof, underframe,
and the truss components are all different.
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
From:
STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 4:56 PM To: yahoogroups Subject: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars Can anyone
tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or
USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the
later 50's.
The ends are
inverted dreadnaught on SP cars.
Other roads,
MKT, CB&Q, and DM&IR have the 7/8 corrugated ends as on some of the
Accurail models, so I would consider modeling them.
I have a
small fleet of these cars stored up and would like to detail them into accurate
models. Any help would be appreciated.
Dave
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Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
Tony Thompson
David Ellzey wrote:
As Eric Hansmann pointed out, the Accurail model has some differences. But more important for SP modeling, all its original USRA single-sheathed cars in revenue service were rebuilt in 1949-50 into steel-sheathed cars, which bore almost no relation to any Accurail model. I can direct you to published info on those cars if that is really what you are looking for. The SP cars were built with entirely conventional corrugated ends, and when rebuilt, had their height extended with parts of other corrugated ends. I don't know what you are referring to by "dreadnaught," unless you are actually talking about the ARA-like cars SP built in the mid-1920s (changed, however, from the ARA design). IF you mean those, I can make suggestions. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
Eric Hansmann
There are several differences between the Accurail models and the USRA single-sheathed box cars. The ends, roof, underframe, and the truss components are all different.
Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX
From:
STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's. The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars. Other roads, MKT, CB&Q, and DM&IR have the 7/8 corrugated ends as on some of the Accurail models, so I would consider modeling them. I have a small fleet of these cars stored up and would like to detail them into accurate models. Any help would be appreciated. Dave
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Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
david ellzey
Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's. The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars. Other roads, MKT, CB&Q, and DM&IR have the 7/8 corrugated ends as on some of the Accurail models, so I would consider modeling them. I have a small fleet of these cars stored up and would like to detail them into accurate models. Any help would be appreciated. Dave
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Re: Naperville
Tony Thompson
That would be "Skibbe" for those taking notes at home. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: "Xxtreme Modeling" presentation link
Bill, Thank you for posting. Some really great guidelines for improving the finer details on our models. This should help many of us to become better prototype modelers. Jim Kubanick Morgantown WV
On Monday, October 26, 2015 8:35 AM, "fgexbill@... [STMFC]" wrote: For anyone interested here is the link to my "Xxtreme Modeling" presentation done at Cocoa Beach, Collinsville and Lisle in 2015: Xxtreme Modeling FINAL Web Version.pdf
It is copyrighted but it is okay to share with friends. Bill
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Re: USRA steel-side rebuild boxes
Benjamin Scanlon
Hello Clark I assume you mean these : http://rr-fallenflags.org/grr/ga29382ajs.jpg and I believe from past conversations, these also may have been were rebuilt from the 1923 ARA cars. I think the series was 29300-29449. I am not sure whether all that series had the vertical posts, and they do not seemed to have notched corners on the ends, either. Possibly Justin or Bob Hanson may now. Regards Ben Scanlon London, England
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Re: USRA steel-side rebuild boxes
Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
Clark,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I assume you are thinking of GA 19500 to 19799. These were 40' 6" IL, 8' 6" IW, and 9' IH with a 100T capacity from 3098 cubic feet. A photo can be found on page 39 of Henderson's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS, V.1. The example car has 8 vertical posts on its sides, a 6' Youngston door, 7/8 ends and what appears to be a peaked roof. The sides are a dark gray, and the ends, roof and part of the side behind the ladder are black. There is no fishbelly underframe showing. It is quite a striking paint scheme, and a very interesting car. I have no idea what these cars were built from, though the lack of a fishebelly underframe and 7/8 ends suggests something on the order of a 1920s single-sheathed USRA clone. Yours Aye, Garth Groff
On 10/26/15 10:16 AM, cepropst@q.com
[STMFC] wrote:
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