Date   

Re: USRA

david ellzey
 

Yes I got some good suggestions from both of them. Tony T. said the SP didn't have anything similar to the accurail car. Eric H. said the accurail car is based on a Canadian car mostly. He sent some very handy information a site called trainlife.com. There is an article on the accurail boxcar. No one contacted me offline. I get the impression that the accurail car is not highly regarded among prototype modelers:-)
Dave
 


From: "'paul.doggett2472' paul.doggett2472@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 4:13 AM
Subject: [STMFC] USRA

 
I see you got some suggestions from Tony Thompson and Eric Hannsman they are both very knowledgeable did anyone contact you off line?.
Paul 




Sent from Samsung mobile



Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

Marty McGuirk
 

For anything you've ever wanted to know about CN steam-era boxcars see -


Canadian National Railways


Dave,


While I acknowledge CN cars would have likely to be seen less frequently on the T&NO than, say, the GN or Maine Central, the fact is the CN (and CP) represented a very large percentage of the North American boxcar fleet - so many that it's hard to imagine not having one or two show up on a railroad, even in the deep south.


Search the list archives for never-ending discussions of "boxcar percentages" and "freight car fleet percentages" and similar terms and you'll see how much time and effort has been expended on statistical research and sheer speculation on this topic.


So if you include one or two CN cars in your car fleet no one vaguely familiar with steam era freight car distribution would bat an eye. But the cars represented by the Accurail cars are not a terribly large percentage of the CN car fleet, meaning that if you want to have one or two Canadian National cars I don't think either of them should be the Accurail car, especially if you're modeling any time after 1940 or so.

CN had the single largest fleet of 40'-6" 10-panel steel cars built to the "1937 AAR" design (with some of them having unique variations of ends and roofs.)

If you wanted to have one or two representative CN cars for a late steam era/transition era road those would be the ones I'd suggest.


Marty



USRA

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

I see you got some suggestions from Tony Thompson and Eric Hannsman they are both very knowledgeable did anyone contact you off line?.
Paul 




Sent from Samsung mobile


Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

david ellzey
 

That's just from my vague recollections of the 1950's, not seeing any Canadian rail cars here in Louisiana.
Dave
 


From: "Eric Hansmann eric@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 
I recommend you get a copy of the ORER for the year of your focus or the year before. Compile some fleet numbers and check what older cars are still running. The 1953 K brake ban sent lots of freight cars to scrap. 

And I would not ignore the Canadian box car fleet. Newsprint from Canada was used all over. 

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX



On Oct 26, 2015, at 8:15 PM, david ellzey davidellzey1@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Let me clarify that last email, I meant slim chance of Canadian cars down here on the T&NO.
Dave
 

From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 
Modeling the T&NO, I would have to shy away from Canadian prototypes, which  be the closest match.

 T&NO had nothing like this.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history









Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

Eric Hansmann
 

I recommend you get a copy of the ORER for the year of your focus or the year before. Compile some fleet numbers and check what older cars are still running. The 1953 K brake ban sent lots of freight cars to scrap. 

And I would not ignore the Canadian box car fleet. Newsprint from Canada was used all over. 

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

On Oct 26, 2015, at 8:15 PM, david ellzey davidellzey1@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Let me clarify that last email, I meant slim chance of Canadian cars down here on the T&NO.
Dave
 

From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 
Modeling the T&NO, I would have to shy away from Canadian prototypes, which  be the closest match.

 T&NO had nothing like this.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

david ellzey
 

Let me clarify that last email, I meant slim chance of Canadian cars down here on the T&NO.
Dave
 


From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 9:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 
Modeling the T&NO, I would have to shy away from Canadian prototypes, which  be the closest match.

 T&NO had nothing like this.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

Tony Thompson
 

Modeling the T&NO, I would have to shy away from Canadian prototypes, which  be the closest match.

 T&NO had nothing like this.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

david ellzey
 

The USRA clones seem close to the Accurail cars without doing precise measuring. With revised underframe, separate grabs and ladders they would look quite decent.
Modeling the T&NO, I would have to shy away from Canadian prototypes, which  be the closest match.
Thanks for all the info, it will be a big help.
Dave
 


From: "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 8:12 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 
Technically, those were not USRA cars as the USRA stopped functioning on March 1, 1920. Cars built during the 1920s that mostly followed a USRA design have commonly been called clones in the model press. True USRA box cars did not have 7/8 corrugated steel ends or Hutchins roof hardware.
 
For a pocket summary of the USRA and a list of the car assignments they made, check out this page on my blog.
 
Here’s a magazine to unearth. The February 1993 RMJ article is a good reference for the Accurail 4100 and 4300 series kits. Here's a link to review Richard Hendrickson's original article. Most of this article remains available on the Trainlife site. Page 20 and additional pages go dead, but clicking on the Show Page Text link offers a hint of the content without images. It seems there was no data table provided for the article.
 
From Richard's article, I gather the following prototypes are best reflected by the Accurail 4100 series model.
 
CN 500500-503499 - 1000 cars built in 1923, 1924, and 1927, for 3000 total cars.
 
Additionally, automobile box cars (XA) built to the same design, but with an added half door for the 10-foot door opening.
 
CN 580000-580999 - 1000 cars built in 1923
GTW 581000-581999 - 1000 cars built in 1923
GT 33000-35999 - 200 cars built in 1923 but with corrugated steel ends (4300 series kits)
 
Many of these XA class cars were rebuilt in the 1930s with a narrower door opening and only a single door per side, becoming XM class cars.
 
Additionally, there were similar prototypes on the CB&Q, CNJ, and SP Lines (to name a few) that differed in overall height and hardware appliances.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
 
 



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 5:38 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
 



Some of the USRA-type cars built in the 1920's had 7/8 corrugated ends and Hutchins roofs like the Accurail cars. Would the basic dimensions be correct?
Dave
 

From: "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
 
 
There are several differences between the Accurail models and the USRA single-sheathed box cars. The ends, roof, underframe, and the truss components are all different.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
 
 
 

 
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 4:56 PM
To: yahoogroups
Subject: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
 


Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's.
The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars.
Other roads, MKT, CB&Q, and DM&IR have the 7/8 corrugated ends as on some of the Accurail models, so I would consider modeling them.
I have a small fleet of these cars stored up and would like to detail them into accurate models. Any help would be appreciated.
Dave
 
 




Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

Eric Hansmann
 

Technically, those were not USRA cars as the USRA stopped functioning on March 1, 1920. Cars built during the 1920s that mostly followed a USRA design have commonly been called clones in the model press. True USRA box cars did not have 7/8 corrugated steel ends or Hutchins roof hardware.

 

For a pocket summary of the USRA and a list of the car assignments they made, check out this page on my blog.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/usra-freight-car-assignments/

 

Here’s a magazine to unearth. The February 1993 RMJ article is a good reference for the Accurail 4100 and 4300 series kits. Here's a link to review Richard Hendrickson's original article. Most of this article remains available on the Trainlife site. Page 20 and additional pages go dead, but clicking on the Show Page Text link offers a hint of the content without images. It seems there was no data table provided for the article.

http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/144/10388/february-1993-page-14

 

From Richard's article, I gather the following prototypes are best reflected by the Accurail 4100 series model.

 

CN 500500-503499 - 1000 cars built in 1923, 1924, and 1927, for 3000 total cars.

 

Additionally, automobile box cars (XA) built to the same design, but with an added half door for the 10-foot door opening.

 

CN 580000-580999 - 1000 cars built in 1923

GTW 581000-581999 - 1000 cars built in 1923

GT 33000-35999 - 200 cars built in 1923 but with corrugated steel ends (4300 series kits)

 

Many of these XA class cars were rebuilt in the 1930s with a narrower door opening and only a single door per side, becoming XM class cars.

 

Additionally, there were similar prototypes on the CB&Q, CNJ, and SP Lines (to name a few) that differed in overall height and hardware appliances.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 5:38 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 




Some of the USRA-type cars built in the 1920's had 7/8 corrugated ends and Hutchins roofs like the Accurail cars. Would the basic dimensions be correct?

Dave
 


From: "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 

 

There are several differences between the Accurail models and the USRA single-sheathed box cars. The ends, roof, underframe, and the truss components are all different.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 4:56 PM
To: yahoogroups
Subject: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 



Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's.

The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars.

Other roads, MKT, CB&Q, and DM&IR have the 7/8 corrugated ends as on some of the Accurail models, so I would consider modeling them.

I have a small fleet of these cars stored up and would like to detail them into accurate models. Any help would be appreciated.

Dave

 

 



Re: Naperville

frograbbit602
 

Guessing most are still recovering from travel time home or still processing and digesting all the information gathered from seminars or exchange with others or being fired up from the event have headed for the railroad modeling bench to finish or start a new project preventing them from posting regarding the event.
I as other attendees I have talked to had a great time.
Lester Breuer


Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

david ellzey
 

The B-50-13 and 14's are of more interest to me. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. You can contact me offline if you wish.

Thanks,
Dave
 


From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 
David Ellzey wrote:

 
Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's.
The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars.

     As Eric Hansmann pointed out, the Accurail model has some differences. But more important for SP modeling, all its original USRA single-sheathed cars in revenue service were rebuilt in 1949-50 into steel-sheathed cars, which bore almost no relation to any Accurail model. I can direct you to published info on those cars if that is really what you are looking for.
     The SP cars were built with entirely conventional corrugated ends, and when rebuilt, had their height extended with parts of other corrugated ends. I don't know what you are referring to by "dreadnaught," unless you are actually talking about the ARA-like cars SP built in the mid-1920s (changed, however, from the ARA design). IF you mean those, I can make suggestions.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

Tony Thompson
 

Some of the USRA-type cars built in the 1920's had 7/8 corrugated ends and Hutchins roofs like the Accurail cars. Would the basic dimensions be correct?

     THe SP cars were exact USRA cars and were built in 1919. Some had Hutchins roofs, some did not; all had 5-5-5 ends. Can't speak for other roads. 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

david ellzey
 

Some of the USRA-type cars built in the 1920's had 7/8 corrugated ends and Hutchins roofs like the Accurail cars. Would the basic dimensions be correct?
Dave
 


From: "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 6:03 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 
There are several differences between the Accurail models and the USRA single-sheathed box cars. The ends, roof, underframe, and the truss components are all different.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
 
 
 



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 4:56 PM
To: yahoogroups
Subject: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars
 



Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's.
The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars.
Other roads, MKT, CB&Q, and DM&IR have the 7/8 corrugated ends as on some of the Accurail models, so I would consider modeling them.
I have a small fleet of these cars stored up and would like to detail them into accurate models. Any help would be appreciated.
Dave





Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

Tony Thompson
 

David Ellzey wrote:

 
Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's.
The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars.

     As Eric Hansmann pointed out, the Accurail model has some differences. But more important for SP modeling, all its original USRA single-sheathed cars in revenue service were rebuilt in 1949-50 into steel-sheathed cars, which bore almost no relation to any Accurail model. I can direct you to published info on those cars if that is really what you are looking for.
     The SP cars were built with entirely conventional corrugated ends, and when rebuilt, had their height extended with parts of other corrugated ends. I don't know what you are referring to by "dreadnaught," unless you are actually talking about the ARA-like cars SP built in the mid-1920s (changed, however, from the ARA design). IF you mean those, I can make suggestions.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

Eric Hansmann
 

There are several differences between the Accurail models and the USRA single-sheathed box cars. The ends, roof, underframe, and the truss components are all different.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 4:56 PM
To: yahoogroups
Subject: [STMFC] Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

 




Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's.

The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars.

Other roads, MKT, CB&Q, and DM&IR have the 7/8 corrugated ends as on some of the Accurail models, so I would consider modeling them.

I have a small fleet of these cars stored up and would like to detail them into accurate models. Any help would be appreciated.

Dave




Accurail O.B. boxcars as USRA design cars

david ellzey
 

Can anyone tell me if the Accurail O.B. boxcar would be a good candidate for a USRA or USRA design single sheathed car? I would like to model some as SP cars in the later 50's.
The ends are inverted dreadnaught on SP cars.
Other roads, MKT, CB&Q, and DM&IR have the 7/8 corrugated ends as on some of the Accurail models, so I would consider modeling them.
I have a small fleet of these cars stored up and would like to detail them into accurate models. Any help would be appreciated.
Dave


Re: Naperville

Tony Thompson
 

Biggest news is Mike Scribbe taking over.

    That would be "Skibbe" for those taking notes at home.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: "Xxtreme Modeling" presentation link

James E Kubanick
 

Bill,

Thank you for posting. Some really great guidelines for improving the finer details on our models. This should help many of us to become better prototype modelers.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV



On Monday, October 26, 2015 8:35 AM, "fgexbill@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
For anyone interested here is the link to my "Xxtreme Modeling" presentation done at Cocoa Beach, Collinsville and Lisle in 2015: Xxtreme Modeling FINAL Web Version.pdf

It is copyrighted but it is okay to share with friends.

Bill



Re: USRA steel-side rebuild boxes

Benjamin Scanlon
 











Hello Clark


I assume you mean these : 


http://rr-fallenflags.org/grr/ga29382ajs.jpg


and I believe from past conversations, these also may have been were rebuilt from the 1923 ARA cars. I think the series was 29300-29449.


I am not sure whether all that series had the vertical posts, and they do not seemed to have notched corners on the ends, either.  Possibly Justin or Bob Hanson may now.


Regards


Ben Scanlon

London, England


Re: USRA steel-side rebuild boxes

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Clark,

I assume you are thinking of GA 19500 to 19799. These were 40' 6" IL, 8' 6" IW, and 9' IH with a 100T capacity from 3098 cubic feet. A photo can be found on page 39 of Henderson's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS, V.1. The example car has 8 vertical posts on its sides, a 6' Youngston door, 7/8 ends and what appears to be a peaked roof. The sides are a dark gray, and the ends, roof and part of the side behind the ladder are black. There is no fishbelly underframe showing. It is quite a striking paint scheme, and a very interesting car.

I have no idea what these cars were built from, though the lack of a fishebelly underframe and 7/8 ends suggests something on the order of a 1920s single-sheathed USRA clone.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 10/26/15 10:16 AM, cepropst@q.com [STMFC] wrote:
 

The GARR also had some cars with vertical outside posts. I would like to know more about them. Would make an interesting modeling project.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

55221 - 55240 of 193482