Date   

Re: A Hybrid Construction Tank Car?

Jack Mullen
 

I think you're misled because the rivets along the longitudinal seam have pretty much disappeared due to lack of contrast in the shadow areas in the scan, and the top seam is out of sight due to the upward angle of the shot.. 

The very prominent edge of the bottom course shows this is a lap joint, not what you'd see if it were a welded joint.

I don't know whether the rivets could be seen better in the original photo, but by tweaking both contrast and brightness to high levels, I was able to distinguish a regular pattern of indistinct bumps along the longitudinal seam.

Jack Mullen


Re: MKT War Emergency box car?

Greg Martin
 

I agree Bill and this hampers our cause more than you will ever know.
 
I refuse to name names, they know who they are but most of you would really be surprised.
 
The good thing is that the really great guys carry the flag and I can never thank them enough.
 
Greg
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
In a message dated 10/31/2015 3:57:09 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:

 

What sad commentary that some manufacturers can only read the bottom line and cannot see the value of building Good Will by helping with projects like Shake 'n Take.


Bill Welch



Re: MKT War Emergency box car?

Bill Welch
 

What sad commentary that some manufacturers can only read the bottom line and cannot see the value of building Good Will by helping with projects like Shake 'n Take.

Bill Welch



Re: New Company?

Jason Kliewer
 

That's definitely different tooling.


Jason Kliewer
Colorado Springs, CO


Steam Era Wreck Train Cars

Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...>
 

Well, Mike, thank you so much for allowing the esoteric interests of Listers in this part of the hobby to see the light of day.

I think the fascination in wreck and MOW cars in simply an extension of this group's totally unreasonable and quite skewed fascination with our era’s peculiars, one-offs, weirds, unusuals, and the seldom and rarely seen (myself excluded (:-)). Wreck trains are a cornucopia of these attributes, of course.

Contrary to what others might think, MIke, you are a real gentleman right down to the core.

Denny

Denny Anspach
Sacramento


Re: MKT War Emergency box car?

Greg Martin
 

All,
 
I don't think that Scott believes that you can marriage the Intermountain kit with the ACURAIL kit without more consideration. But I do believe it is worthy of the consideration.
 
I have no lack of subject matter for SHAKE_N_TAKE.  What is difficult is getting a donor to commit to the effort. Only a couple of folks have been gracious enough to do so and some have said things like ,"the only problem I have with this idea is the donation part..." true story... So honestly I value the relationship we have with those that have as I know those involved with SHAKE_N_TAKE do as well. 
 
I can't say enough good things about those that have done our castings as well.  
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
Barry Bennett writes:

I take it Scott is assuming that you can pop an Intermountain body on an Accurail underframe and nearly all is done, but visually comparing an undec photo from the IM site and that photo of the MKT car it seems to my eye that the end panels of the sides of the MKT car are narrower than the IM. 

Is it possible that the side framing was modified to fit existing framing of the donor underframes rather than follow the WE standard.

Barry Bennett
Coventry, England.


Re: MKT War Emergency box car?

Greg Martin
 

Tim,
 
The entire car may need to be cast, that may not be a problem though at least for the sides and ends.
 
This would fit in well with our little selection of double door cars that have started with this years Rock Island car. With your help we have found several examples of additional of cars that can be adressed with this core. Now if I can get you to build just one of the too cars you sent me photos of.
 
For the moment I want to keep the guys focused on building the Rock Island car for the "Bash at the Beach"in January.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
In a message dated 10/31/2015 1:06:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:

Greg

It seems like the underframe and sides would have to be scratch built or resin cast. Would
be a very neat car though and good for 1940's to early 70's modeling.

Tim


Re: MKT War Emergency box car?

Greg Martin
 

Scott and all,
 
In Scott's reply to Barry he writes: 

"Barry Wrote:
Is it possible that the side framing was modified to fit existing framing of the donor underframes rather than follow the WE standard."
 
Scott sez:

"Quite right!"

"Engineering concepts require that the vertical side posts align with the underframe crossbearers."
 
Often is the case that these may match but not in the case of this car. The cross bearers are no match. There appears to be a cross tie at the mid point of panel #2 and just offset the center of panel #3.   

'Next up, would be to find information on the original reefers that donated their underframes to these cars: GARX 52001-52200, General American Lot 2652."
 
It would be nice to have a set of General Arrangement drawings for the car however that may not be possible. We were very lucky with the two Rock Island double door cars that are being built on the S-N-T group list. One is under development and hasn't been released. We also do online builds in between CCB.
 
There may be a way around the Intermountain issue.

"The first member of this list, who comes to mind, that might be able to help with this is Gene Green (I hate to put you on the spot, but...). These cars also had Klasing brakes! 

Scott Haycock"
 
Greg Martin
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 


Re: MKT War Emergency box car?

Tim O'Connor
 

Greg

It seems like the underframe and sides would have to be scratch built or resin cast. Would
be a very neat car though and good for 1940's to early 70's modeling.

Tim


Bill,
 
Yes I will look at this seriously as a possible SHAKE_N_TAKE build in the future. INTERMOUNTAIN...hmmm that could be tough.
 
Greg Martin


Re: MKT War Emergency box car?

Greg Martin
 

Bill,
 
Yes I will look at this seriously as a possible SHAKE_N_TAKE build in the future. INTERMOUNTAIN...hmmm that could be tough.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
Bill Welch writes:

 

Here is the car in BCR: MKT 79120 WE copy.JPG

 

This is from Richard via Ted or the other way around. IIRC the info with the yellow Ebay offering says is is a Builder's Photo, meaning the yellow preceded the BCR. Red or Yellow, either fits our time period.

It would be a great "S 'n T" as would the Wabash version if Greg could get InterMountain to cooperate.


< br>


Re: Atlas TP tank car

Benjamin Hom
 

Lester Breuer wrote:
"Axle length is the problem."

Mark Drake replied:
"Atlas trucks are a pain... you need the truck tune up tool to bore out the side frames a little bit, or a lot."

Wrong approach.  The Reboxx or Micro-Mark tool is only meant to true up the bearing surfaces of the truck, NOT do major cutting.

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"Atlas axle lengths are much shorter than Intermountain. Reboxx is the answer -- lengths down to 0.950. A similar length
problem is found with Kato ASF A-3 trucks. Same solution."

This is the correct approach.  Reboxx sells a sampler pack of wheelsets that you can use to determine the best axle length for a particular truck. 

They also have application charts at their website, but they're a bit dated (1999) so the truck you're trying to match may not be listed.


Ben Hom


Admin: Termination of New Company thread

Mikebrock
 

The New Company thread is now terminated.
This thread is, apparently, fertile grounds for gosip. Note Tim O'Connor's "I heard at Naperville that Exactrail is shutting down. No idea if it is true or not."

In that case, don't mention it. Note the STMFC rules:

"Personal attacks on other members, manufacturers or prototype modeling
events is expressly prohibited
and may result in
expulsion from the group. Members are expected to conduct themselves in a
gentlemanly manner. Personal attacks on anyone including non members is not
permitted.

Members are permitted to criticize or praise manufacturer's products free
from criticism from other members. Criticism of a manufacturer's business
practices is, however, not within the scope of the group."

This thread contains references to various employees of different companines which are clearly out of scope.

Hence, unless you have information about a frt car product, discussion about a new company is out of scope. Discussion about the business practices of a manufacturer...or lack thereof...is also out of scope.

Mike Brock
STMFC Boss


Re: A Hybrid Construction Tank Car?

destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <shhaycock@...> wrote :

Thanks, Tom.

An impressive analysis!
==================
Only one problem... Who says it's a welded tank? I see rivets, or at least a repeating pattern of aberration in the pixels on the floor sheet seam, which is in deep shadow, and doesn't show very well. Follow the tank head seam down around towards the floor sheet lap; the rivets almost dissapear just before the lap, but are still there. Now follow the lap seam away from you along the car, and you'll see the same faint rivets. With no highlight on the heads, they are hard to see, but they are there.

Dennis Storzek



 

If indeed this was an ARA Class 2 car as it is stenciled on the A end it would have been built between 1903 and May of 1917. The light weigh date of 1948 indicates it is not ready for retirement and it appears to have new paint which may have been the reason the photographer took the photo. I find no reference to welding for Class 2 cars but it does indicate there is no lagging which might have explained the appearance. Class 3 cars were built after 1917 could use welding for tank seams with ARA approval. I guess the Tank Car Committee would have had jurisdiction. So I think this was built late in the Class 2 period in sort of a transition time. The fact that it was experimental would have been stenciled near the tank car class on the BR and AL corners, which we can’t read (at least not on an eBay scan). There are only two tank bands because the diameter of the tank must be 76” or less. This appears to be a 2% volume dome therefore it is not an acid car with would only require a 1% dome volume (we called these acid domes.) I think I see AB brake valves so perhaps the light weigh was performed after that modification was performed….if so the car owner was getting ready for the 1954 prohibition of “K” brakes on tank cars.This is my analysis.

Tom Birkett

Bartlesville, OK

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2015 4:34 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] A Hybrid Construction Tank Car?

While looking through some of Ted Cullota's photos on Ebay, I came across this one:

Richfield Oil ROX 670 tank car 8x10 photo <http://www.ebay.com/itm/Richfield-Oil-ROX-670-tank-car-8x10-photo/121799369779?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33665%26meid%3Da6681533224445a39a2eac9f0e027466%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D371474083952>



<http://www.ebay.com/itm/Richfield-Oil-ROX-670-tank-car-8x10-photo/121799369779?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33665%26meid%3Da6681533224445a39a2eac9f0e027466%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D371474083952>

<http://www.ebay.com/itm/Richfield-Oil-ROX-670-tank-car-8x10-photo/121799369779?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33665%26meid%3Da6681533224445a39a2eac9f0e027466%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D371474083952> Richfield Oil ROX 670 tank car 8x10 photo

US $1.53 Used in Collectibles, Transportation, Railroadiana & Trains



<http://www.ebay.com/itm/Richfield-Oil-ROX-670-tank-car-8x10-photo/121799369779?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33665%26meid%3Da66815!%2033224445a39a2eac9f0e027466%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D371474083952> View on www.ebay.com

Preview by Yahoo




This appears to have a welded tank, with riveted ends and dome.

I'm not a tank car expert, but I don't recall seeing one with this combination of construction techniques before.

Could someone educate me, please!

Scott Haycock

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



NAPERVILLE 2015

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I just got home from Naperville (It takes a while to paddle.). I, like most, was disappointed
in the lack of display models and vendors this year. The models that were displayed were
top of the line. I was not disappointed, however, at the quality of the presentations. I will continue
to keep Npaerville on my circuit.

One of the best things for me is to visit with the many friends that I have made over the years.
I have asked in the past if a list of attendies could be posted. There are many people who
have helped me with information that I have not met personally. It is not practical (and is a
bit weird) to go around reading name tags. I was disapointed to find that a number of people
who have helped me in the past year were in attendance but I was not aware of this until I saw
their posts afater the event.

Bill Pardie


Re: Atlas TP tank car

Tim O'Connor
 

Atlas axle lengths are much shorter than Intermountain.

Reboxx is the answer -- lengths down to 0.950. A similar length
problem is found with Kato ASF A-3 trucks. Same solution.

Axle length is the problem.
Lester Breuer


Re: MKT War Emergency box car?

Allan Smith
 

I have conducters lists for the Sierra RR in 1952. MKT 79040 is listed as a car coming empty onto the Sierra and going out loaded with lumber in 1952. So if anyone wants to model this series of  car at least one car was active in interchange in 1952.

Al Smith
Sonra Ca


Re: ADMin:The return. Re: MOW and the STMFC

Mikebrock
 

Armand Premo writes...I think about baggage cars being considered as frt cars as far as the STMFC is concerned:


"That's kind of a stretch Mike.Should we also include combines that also carried LCL?"

I don't know. However, mail trains consisting of significant numbers of baggage cars are not really passenger trains either and, so, I, having an interest in the UP Fast Mail at the time, declared baggage cars to be frt cars. Such is the problem of having a benevolent dictator. Not to worry...I won't declare Rutland box cars to be passenger cars,...regardless of the large numbers of 'bo's riding them south out of Vermont.

Mike Brock


Re: Atlas TP tank car

frograbbit602
 

Axle length is the problem.
Lester Breuer


Re: New Company?

Mark Drake <markstation01@...>
 

 I am not sure of the pedigree of that car model but ScaleTrains has not yet announced nor produced any product. Some may recall a gentleman by the name of Shane who worked for Athearn/Horizons, he is ScaleTrains CEO, remarkably they have 15 5-Star reviews on Facebook but have yet to produce anything...


Mark L. Drake eBay ID member1108


Re: Atlas TP tank car

Mark Drake <markstation01@...>
 

Atlas trucks are a pain... you need the truck tune up tool to bore out the side frames a little bit, or a lot-

 
Mark L. Drake eBay ID member1108

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