Date   

Re: Nitric Acid Tank Cars

mwbauers
 

Have we considered that it is merely a trial balloon of a car ???

If it proved out as being needed, it would have become the standard for such a load.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Nov 8, 2015, at 4:39 PM, Dave Parker wrote:


If a tank carrying 95% nitric acid were to fail, it would seem most likely to do so from the inside out.  I cannot imagine why getting rained or snowed upon would make a shred of difference.  And if it did, why is is the only acid-carrying tank car sporting the shroud, out of the dozens/hundreds of photos that are out there?

I do not know the purpose of the shroud, so will refrain from guessing.  But the possibilities that have been advanced thus far don't make a lot of chemical sense.


Re: Nitric Acid Tank Cars

Dave Parker
 

If a tank carrying 95% nitric acid were to fail, it would seem most likely to do so from the inside out.  I cannot imagine why getting rained or snowed upon would make a shred of difference.  And if it did, why is is the only acid-carrying tank car sporting the shroud, out of the dozens/hundreds of photos that are out there?

I do not know the purpose of the shroud, so will refrain from guessing.  But the possibilities that have been advanced thus far don't make a lot of chemical sense.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Re: Nitric Acid Tank Cars

mwbauers
 

I realize that I’m guessing at this.

But let’s go back to what I wrote. I want to stress that the shroud would be an attempt to further weather-proof the tank. Not to be there in case of a tank failure.

As a function, that can be quite a different matter.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Nov 8, 2015, at 4:12 PM, Dave Parker spottab@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 I am also skeptical that it was added for some extra protection in case of tank failure.  "Conventional" 103-C cars lacking a shroud appear as early as 1932 in Kaminski's ACF tank car book.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA



Re: Nitric Acid Tank Cars

Dave Parker
 

According to the 1949 CFR, the ICC 103-C spec was reserved for tank cars dedicated to the transport of nitric acid, 65% or greater.  That post-dates this photo by a few years, but I believe to be correct in this case.  (This car is seemingly dedicated to carrying 95% or greater).  To meet 103-C, all metal in contact with the acid had to pass a corrosion test, and was typically a chrome-steel or chrome-nickel alloy specifically formulated for nitric-acid resistance.  I do not know what the -AL suffix refers to here, and don't recall seeing this combination before.

As for the presence of the sheet-metal shroud, that is a mystery.  As Steve said, these can be found on some very early cars with external heating coils (and presumably insulation) used for highly viscous materials like paraffin.  The UTLX 85901 car in Ted's current auction is dedicated to detergent transport, which would seem an unlikely candidate for heating; perhaps it is simply a leftover feature from earlier use.  There is no earthly reason to heat nitric acid -- if anything, you would probably want to cool it.  I am also skeptical that it was added for some extra protection in case of tank failure.  "Conventional" 103-C cars lacking a shroud appear as early as 1932 in Kaminski's ACF tank car book.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA



On Sunday, November 8, 2015 12:48 PM, "'Steve and Barb Hile' shile@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
I am not certain about the nitric acid chemistry, but similar cars used by UTLX (see 85901 on down the list of Ted’s photos) had heater coils outside the tank (and inside the jacket) for warming contents that could not tolerate any water infiltration that could occur with the use of internal steam heating pipes.  They began this practice way back, early, in the 20th Century, equipping a couple of cars with the external heating coils and insulated jackets for cars to carry paraffin wax.
 
Interestingly, a Monsanto car like the one in Ted’s current batch of photos is in the Museum in St. Louis and you can walk through the interior of the car.  But when you look under the jacket, they no longer have (or never have had) external heating pipes.
 
I hope that this is helpful.
 
Regards,
Steve Hile
 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 10:57 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Nitric Acid Tank Cars
 
 
Why were Nitric Acid tank cars built this way?
 
 
image
 
This is a traditional print from negative, not a digital print . I will combine wins for savings on shipping. I will be listing many photos.
 
Preview by Yahoo
 
 
 
Bill Welch



Re: Nitric Acid Tank Cars

Steve and Barb Hile
 

I am not certain about the nitric acid chemistry, but similar cars used by UTLX (see 85901 on down the list of Ted’s photos) had heater coils outside the tank (and inside the jacket) for warming contents that could not tolerate any water infiltration that could occur with the use of internal steam heating pipes.  They began this practice way back, early, in the 20th Century, equipping a couple of cars with the external heating coils and insulated jackets for cars to carry paraffin wax.

 

Interestingly, a Monsanto car like the one in Ted’s current batch of photos is in the Museum in St. Louis and you can walk through the interior of the car.  But when you look under the jacket, they no longer have (or never have had) external heating pipes.

 

I hope that this is helpful.

 

Regards,

Steve Hile

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 10:57 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Nitric Acid Tank Cars

 

 

Why were Nitric Acid tank cars built this way?

US Holston Ordnance Works USOX 17021 nitric acid tank car 5x7 builder's photo

 

 

image

 

US Holston Ordnance Works USOX 17021 nitric acid tan...

This is a traditional print from negative, not a digital print . I will combine wins for savings on shipping. I will be listing many photos.

 

Preview by Yahoo

 

 

 

Bill Welch


. . . Airbrushes 101 & Airbrushing Acrylics with Them-Help Wanted at Cocoa Beach

Bill Welch
 

I am planning a two-part clinic for Prototype Rails on THE BEACH January 8-9, 2016 and will need some HELP for PART TWO to be successful. Here are some details.

1.) "Internal Mix Double Action Airbrushes 101 & Airbrushing Acrylics with Them" will be a traditional type clinic with the lights lowered and visuals presented. One part will be an explanation of Internal Mix Double Action Airbrushes, an explanation of why they may be the best choice for spraying Acrylic paint and a survey of six ABs:

Badger 155 "Anthem"
Badger 105 "Patriot"
Passche "Talon"
GREX "Tritium" TG3
Harder & Steenbeck "Infinity"
Iwata "HP-C Plus"

I will also mention three good quality inexpensive Chinese "ABEST" ABs for those on a budget. Accessories like compressors, hoses, and Quick Disconnects will be addressed.

The second part of this will be about how to be successful Airbrushing Acrylics. A Downloadable Handout with links to various resources will be provided covering both parts.

2.) "LIVE FIRE" This separate event is limited to 48 people and will allow participants to spray Badger's "Modelflex" with one of four ABs: Badger 155 "Anthem"; Badger 105 "Patriot"; Passche "Talon";  and GREX "Tritium" TG. Cardboard will provide some practice before moving on to an unpainted Box Car Body provided by Accurail. People will be able to signup for this part starting at Noon on January 8, 2016 with some slots held back for Saturday arrivals. There will be a two and one-half hour time block for this activity with each painter allowed ten minutes.

I need TWO kinds of HELP with this part:

First, to make sure things run smoothly I need a few people that are experienced air brushers, especially with Internal Mix Double Action Airbrushes and preferably with Acrylics, to assist each painter. Ideally they will be sitting across from each painter to answer questions and Coach as necessary. Also cleaning ABs between painters as necessary with Distilled Water and 91% Isopropyl Alcohol. If we have enough "Volunteer Coaches," they might be able to work in shifts rather than the whole time slot. 

Second, two people that are driving have volunteered to bring their air compressors and I can run two ABs from mine. However taking into account "Murphy's Law" and to minimize encountering FUBAR, it would make me worry much less if a couple of people would also put their compressors in their cars and lug them to CCB.

Please contact me OFF-LIST (fgexbill(at)tamapbay.rr.com) if you can help by serving as an Airbrushing Coach or bringing your compressor.

Thank you for giving this your attention and consideration.
Bill Welch



Re: Nitric Acid Tank Cars

mwbauers
 

While it’s hard to say without knowing the particulars of the type of steel used for the inner tank of this car……….

It could well be the outer shell is another degree of protection against exposure to the weather degrading the main storage tank.

The outer shell will definitely prevent water and ice from degrading the sealing material between the riveted parts of the fabricated inner tank, and greatly reduces the possibility of weather rusting and damaging of the several hundreds of rivets making up the inner tank.

This type of acid might also be very concentrated and perhaps extra containment precaution is worth-while.

Later on….. production changes to different steel alloy sheets, different alloy rivets, sealants, or tougher paint may have made the outer shell unnecessary for newer acid tank cars. Allowing them to look more like the rest of the tank car fleet without that outer shell.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Nov 8, 2015, at 2:00 PM, jack.f.mullen wrote:

It appears that the jacket, shaped sort of like a rural mailbox, or more aptly, a coil-car hood, could be unbolted at the bottom edge and lifted off as a unit. 


I don't know the intent of this hoodie design, but perhaps it was to make it easier to inspect the tank. Or it may have allowed an air space between the tank shell and the insulation. Just speculating....

Jack Mullen


Re: Nitric Acid Tank Cars

Jack Mullen
 

It appears that the jacket, shaped sort of like a rural mailbox, or more aptly, a coil-car hood, could be unbolted at the bottom edge and lifted off as a unit. 

I don't know the intent of this hoodie design, but perhaps it was to make it easier to inspect the tank. Or it may have allowed an air space between the tank shell and the insulation. Just speculating....

Jack Mullen


Re: Resin Car Works new kit

Rob & Bev Manley
 

I think the CB&Q or Santa Fe would be a good start for shipping the bin kits.

5,which is much better than my 3 and still fun size

On Nov 7, 2015, at 9:43 PM, destorzek@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 




---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Here is a Butler bin ad from 1924 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1924-BUTLER-GRAIN-BIN-GRANARY-AD-CORN-KANSAS-CITY-MINNEAPOLIS-/331107791748

Note the ad lists Kansas City and Minneapolis as locations for the Butler company. In 1939 the company manufactured bins in Galesburg ILL. So Midwest boxcars would be appropriate freight cars for hauling Butler grain bin parts.

=================

Interesting story here about the Galesburg plant.


Re: Nitric Acid Tank Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Why were Nitric Acid tank cars built this way?
Bill I don't know, but it wasn't just nitric acid cars. I have a shot
of UTLX 69024 that is stenciled "transformer oil only" -- which means
PCB's, polychlorinated biphenyls.

By the 1950's if not earlier, new nitric acid cars looked like other acid
tank cars, similar to the Tangent and RCW models.

Tim O'Connor


Nitric Acid Tank Cars

Bill Welch
 

Why were Nitric Acid tank cars built this way?

US Holston Ordnance Works USOX 17021 nitric acid tank car 5x7 builder's photo



Bill Welch


Re: Epson decal printing

Scott H. Haycock
 

Garth Wrote:

I tried this "paper" in my Epson Stylus Photo 1400 which uses Claria "inks". The decals printed very well when the setting was for "plain paper" and quality set at "normal" per the instructions. One sheet was printed with the "glossy photo paper" setting, and the lettering came out fuzzy (I couldn't change the setting for some reason, but later copied the file and appended it to another already set correctly and it worked fine the second time).

 Garth, without having a photo being printed, and the printer settings dialog box open in front of me, my experience with the Epson 1400 is to use a photo paper option- semi-gloss or matte, and the Quality setting at its highest setting -fine, IIRC.

Scott Haycock



Re: Epson decal printing

Scott H. Haycock
 

Garth,

While I haven't absorbed all of this post yet, let me warn you of one thing- the Claria colors used by the Epson 1400 are dye-based inks, not pigment-based inks. They were designed to solve different issues in the photo printing world. The dyes tend to soak in-great for photo papers of a matte, or flat finish, or more absorbent designer photo papers. The pigment inks tend to sit on top of the substrate. they need to be set aside to "dry", before handling. These inks are used for glossy-type photos. Keep this in mind as you experiment.

By all means, though, keep us updated on your efforts.


Scott Haycock


 

Mike and Friends,

While snooping around a local hobby shop last week I discovered Testors Decal Paper No. 9201. It is a package of six 5.5 x 8.5" sheets. I paid $11.25. I also purchased a 3 ounce can of Testors Decal Bonder Spray No. 9200 for $5.25.

I tried this "paper" in my Epson Stylus Photo 1400 which uses Claria "inks". The decals printed very well when the setting was for "plain paper" and quality set at "normal" per the instructions. One sheet was printed with the "glossy photo paper" setting, and the lettering came out fuzzy (I couldn't change the setting for some reason, but later copied the file and appended it to another already set correctly and it worked fine the second time). I let the ink dry for 24 hours, then shot each sheet with two coats of the Bonder Spray (laying on and laying off). There's enough in the can to do about eight sheets with two coats.

Except for the one software failure, I am pleased with the results so far. As I don't have any of the models planned for these decals ready, I haven't yet applied any. I will experiment with them shortly.

For comparison, I printed one sheet of Microscale TF-0 clear trim film and experienced the same problems of the ink not drying. Into the trash!

If I experiment further, I will test other types of coatings such as Testor's Dullcote or Krylon to see how they will react with the inks, and whether decals treated with them will hold up during application.

I'm also going to try having my files printed with a laser printer on the Microscale paper by a local copy shop/printer I've used for other special jobs. Our planned acquisition of a laser printer at work didn't happen.

After poking around on the internet, I found some interesting information about the Epson "inks". Epson Claria "inks" are not inks at all, but dyes. They don't have the same drying properties as HP, Lexmark or Cannon inks. That is why you can't generally print with an Epson in color on photo paper or other media from manufacturers other than Epson. The only non-Epson photo paper that seems to work is Office Depot's house brand which I can no longer get in my area (our OD store closed, and the closest is 75 miles away in Richmond). My earlier Epson 440 worked just fine in color on almost any paper. This machine used real inks.

And by the way, I used a light yellow-orange color for decals for my Sacramento Belt line, a fictional Western Pacific subsidiary. This is similar to what the WP applied to most of their new and repainted cars starting in 1955. Decals intended for my Virginia Midland equipment were printed in a very light gray which approximates silver. It will be interesting to see how these look. I also did some in black, including lettering for a gray Detroit & Mackinac boxcar I've always wanted.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff




Re: Epson decal printing

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Mike and Friends,

While snooping around a local hobby shop last week I discovered Testors Decal Paper No. 9201. It is a package of six 5.5 x 8.5" sheets. I paid $11.25. I also purchased a 3 ounce can of Testors Decal Bonder Spray No. 9200 for $5.25.

I tried this "paper" in my Epson Stylus Photo 1400 which uses Claria "inks". The decals printed very well when the setting was for "plain paper" and quality set at "normal" per the instructions. One sheet was printed with the "glossy photo paper" setting, and the lettering came out fuzzy (I couldn't change the setting for some reason, but later copied the file and appended it to another already set correctly and it worked fine the second time). I let the ink dry for 24 hours, then shot each sheet with two coats of the Bonder Spray (laying on and laying off). There's enough in the can to do about eight sheets with two coats.

Except for the one software failure, I am pleased with the results so far. As I don't have any of the models planned for these decals ready, I haven't yet applied any. I will experiment with them shortly.

For comparison, I printed one sheet of Microscale TF-0 clear trim film and experienced the same problems of the ink not drying. Into the trash!

If I experiment further, I will test other types of coatings such as Testor's Dullcote or Krylon to see how they will react with the inks, and whether decals treated with them will hold up during application.

I'm also going to try having my files printed with a laser printer on the Microscale paper by a local copy shop/printer I've used for other special jobs. Our planned acquisition of a laser printer at work didn't happen.

After poking around on the internet, I found some interesting information about the Epson "inks". Epson Claria "inks" are not inks at all, but dyes. They don't have the same drying properties as HP, Lexmark or Cannon inks. That is why you can't generally print with an Epson in color on photo paper or other media from manufacturers other than Epson. The only non-Epson photo paper that seems to work is Office Depot's house brand which I can no longer get in my area (our OD store closed, and the closest is 75 miles away in Richmond). My earlier Epson 440 worked just fine in color on almost any paper. This machine used real inks.

And by the way, I used a light yellow-orange color for decals for my Sacramento Belt line, a fictional Western Pacific subsidiary. This is similar to what the WP applied to most of their new and repainted cars starting in 1955. Decals intended for my Virginia Midland equipment were printed in a very light gray which approximates silver. It will be interesting to see how these look. I also did some in black, including lettering for a gray Detroit & Mackinac boxcar I've always wanted.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 9/1/15 12:23 PM, Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
[I opened a new thread for this]

I have that article now.

It’s… Painting with Decals, MR June 2003, by John Socha-Leialoha, page 84-86

For media, he used WHITE ink-jet decal paper. [you likely know why I stressed white….]

He used an Epson C-80 with water-resistant Durabright inks. He writes of how the inks dried slowly and gave him a problem until he changed the printer settings. At first the inks ran together in the default setting. That reads just like the problems you had.

He adjusted the amount of ink used and the paper setting in the print drivers.

John wrote:

“…….The best setting for decal paper on my printer was ‘premium semigloss photo paper.’  On other printers, look for a setting designed for semi-gloss, photo-quality paper”

“I also discovered that I got better results if I set the printer driver to a higher contrast and reduced brightness. Without adjusting these settings, my first attempts resulted in decals that looked faded.” [which I think might be handy for certain weathering effects…mb]

I hope that these settings will make your future decal printings a success.

In a few days, I’ll be trying the same with a Canon Photo-printer I have to set-up. I’ll give these settings a try as well.


Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Sep 1, 2015, at 11:00 AM, Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:


……………………….

I'd need to tell you that an article in MR about 1999 where they used an Epson photo printer to full body decal a BN caboose with copious amounts of photo captured graffiti was completely successful.

You may need the printer setting they used in that article to successful print decals on an Epson photo printer. They custom set the print setting on it.

I can pull it up from the MR DVD if you'd like to have those directions and try it with a small test decal.

On Sep 1, 2015, at 3:36 AM, "Garth Groff > wrote:

Mike,

No, not all printers can made decals. Epson ink-jet inks never dry on decal paper, at least not on Microscale's paper, which is the only one I had access to when I tried. It make a sticky mess that ran all over the paper and got on the rollers in my machine.

Other brands of printers might have worked, but since I needed this expensive printer for photographs, I couldn't simply replace it for a few decals.




More Ebay auctions

Andy Carlson
 

Hi Folks-


I saw this list of Tim O'Connor's on bbfcl and thought some may find this interesting and possibly something useful.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

**********Tim O'Connor's Ebay lisings*****************
 

Southern Pacific
brass Division Point DVP-2251 SP Mk-4 2-8-2 #3227 120-SC-5 whaleback tender
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321914000180
brass Precision Scale PSC 15300 SP C-40-3 caboose #1095 painted
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321914068145
brass Beaver Creek SP silk & tea car factory painted
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321914104168

Wabash
brass Overland OMI 3264 Wabash stock car #15012 painted
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321914005916
brass Overland OMI 3265 Wabash #145780 single sheathed auto box car painted
http://www.ebay.com/itm//321914023919

Rock Island/SP
brass Wasatch 1942 PS Plan 4099 4-6-6 sleeper Rock Island Golden State painted
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321914039062

Thanks!

Tim O'Connor




Re: Resin Car Works new kit

Anspach Denny <danspachmd@...>
 

Doug Harding writes and Dennis Storzek replieds-

John Deere built their first corn head combine in 1954 and stopped manufacturing their corn shellers in the late 50’s due to combines with corn heads. 
=============== 


Thanks Doug. That would seem to put the end point on the traditional corn crib, although some held on for years, until the farmer's older equipment wore out and was replaced. I still see the wire basket type occasionally, empty and long abandoned. 


I should point out that none of this limits the usefulness of the RCW Butler type bin, even in corn country, they were used earlier to store other grains used as feed, such as oats.

 This is just about right.  As a part of my “education”, I spent much summer time repairing and painting the buildings on the family’s Iowa farms, most notably the wood corn cribs whose slatted sides were easily damaged.    Although the combine corn heads certainly eventually became common, the cribs and corn shellers continued to be used by many farmers for many years because they represented an investment to be worked off, and it was a process that worked and was supported.  We had the round metal corn cribs well up to the mid ‘90s; and for the most part the lightly built wood slat corn cribs (“granaries”) fell into decline in the ‘80s such that many of them became unstable from non- use. 

A graphic memory from childhood was seeing in October during WWII the rows of round wrinkle-tin corn cribs lined up along the C&NW Carroll-Onawa branch at Odeboldt, Iowa, long lines of waiting mule-hauled wagons full of shelled corn from the nearby mammoth Adams Ranch  waiting to be unloaded, all wagons manned by Italian POWs. A great scene to be modeled.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento





Re: Resin Car Works new kit

Douglas Harding
 

Here is the link to the image of NKP boxcar 12147 unloading grain bin parts.

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/fsa.8b18953/

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Resin Car Works new kit

destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <doug.harding@...> wrote :

Here is a Butler bin ad from 1924 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1924-BUTLER-GRAIN-BIN-GRANARY-AD-CORN-KANSAS-CITY-MINNEAPOLIS-/331107791748

Note the ad lists Kansas City and Minneapolis as locations for the Butler company. In 1939 the company manufactured bins in Galesburg ILL. So Midwest boxcars would be appropriate freight cars for hauling Butler grain bin parts.

=================

Interesting story here about the Galesburg plant.


Re: Resin Car Works new kit

Douglas Harding
 

While Butler was a major player in metal grain bins, there were many other brands. Here are a few I recall seeing in Iowa or have read about.

 

Butler – started 1907 in Clay Center, Kansas

Sioux – started in 1918, based in Sioux Falls, South Dakota

Chief – started 1961 in Kearney, Nebraska

MFS (Modern Farm Systems) – 1970 or earlier, Webster City, Iowa

Sukup – started in 1962 in Sheffield, Iowa

Brock --  started in 1957 in Milford, Indiana

Superior – in Kindred, North Dakota

Stormor – Fremont, Nebraska

York – started in 1970 in York, Nebraska

Wheeling Corrugating Co. – 1930s or 40s Kansas City Missouri

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Resin Car Works new kit

Clark Propst
 

Thinking of decals, I some some bins today with BROCK on them  ;  ))
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

56061 - 56080 of 194661