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Re: new book

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <westerfieldalfred@...> wrote :

To all – I just received my copy of Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest by David Leider.  It not only gives the history of the companies and description of the processes but also more car photos and plans than I ever imagined existed.  Truly a labor of love.  He doesn’t appear to have a web site but his email is sooauthor@... and phone 847-253-7484.  140 pages on quality stock, 190 photos, 31 maps and 68 drawings and illustrations for $32.95 plus $4.95 shipping.  Highly recommended. – Al Westerfield
=================

For anyone who is going to Milwaukee Trainfest next weekend, I believe copies of this book will be for sale in the Soo Line Historical & Technical Society booth, along with copies of the Soo Line Freightcar book.
Re: new book

Dave Nelson
 

Al,

Any good dimensional information for Standard Brands / Fleishman vinegar cars?

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2015 11:31 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] new book

 




To all – I just received my copy of Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest by David Leider.  It not only gives the history of the companies and description of the processes but also more car photos and plans than I ever imagined existed.  Truly a labor of love.  He doesn’t appear to have a web site but his email is sooauthor@... and phone 847-253-7484.  140 pages on quality stock, 190 photos, 31 maps and 68 drawings and illustrations for $32.95 plus $4.95 shipping.  Highly recommended. – Al Westerfield
Hercules Tank Car Color?

Rex Racer
 

The only Hercules tank cars that I have seen photos of have all been black. Anyone have any idea what color this car is? Thanks for the help.

Hercules Powder HPCX 20003 105-A-300-W AC&F tank car 3.5x5 builder's photo

 



Jeff Maurer
Sacramento Valley NTrak
new book

al_westerfield
 

To all – I just received my copy of Pickle and Vinegar Makers of the Midwest by David Leider.  It not only gives the history of the companies and description of the processes but also more car photos and plans than I ever imagined existed.  Truly a labor of love.  He doesn’t appear to have a web site but his email is sooauthor@... and phone 847-253-7484.  140 pages on quality stock, 190 photos, 31 maps and 68 drawings and illustrations for $32.95 plus $4.95 shipping.  Highly recommended. – Al Westerfield
Re: Any ideas of what caused the tank to fail?

ed_mines
 

There are more than a couple of classifications for chemical tank cars. Each one has different materials of construction which are unaffected by the intended material to be transported. I believe many of these chemical tank cars are dedicated to that one intended material.


At one time I supervised loading an expensive material into a tank car. Considering the great lengths we made to purify the chemical, it's intended use (mosquito repellant)  and the cost of cleaning a tank car, it was probable that that car was limited to carrying a very few specific loads. The car was not marked as being restricted to that particular chemical.


Of course most tank cars were used to carry petroleum products. A little kerosene in gasoline isn't going to hurt anything. Ditto for crude oil. Asphalt in gasoline could cause a big problem for motorists.


Ed Mines
Two similar resin kits in the same build

Eric Hansmann
 

Bill Welch has "Gon Crazy" with his latest Resin Car Works blog post. Bill enjoys building two similar gondola kits at the same time to minimize the build processes. His first part can be seen here.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/like-things-at-like-times-building-two-kits-at-once-pt-1/

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

RCW web guy

 
Re: Nitric Acid Tank Cars

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

    While I looked at the picture I didn't compare to any existing cars or kits.  There might be a place for a resin add on part/s here.  Would have to sell more than two or three however.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS
Re: Any ideas of what caused the tank to fail?

up4479
 

The failure may have been the result of a hydro test.  That may be water dripping.
Steve Solombrino
Re: Any ideas of what caused the tank to fail?

Douglas Harding
 

Being a Chemical car, could residue from one load have reacted with new contents? IE the car was not properly cleaned prior to loading.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 
Re: Any ideas of what caused the tank to fail?

Bruce Smith
 

Brian asked (in the subject line) “Any ideas of what caused the tank to fail?”

It went POP!

Other than it is clear that this was due to internal pressure, I’m not sure how you would tell what caused the failure.  Interestingly, there is clearly liquid dripping (heavily) from the wounded end of this car.  Whether that is cargo or the tank is being hosed down to rinse off or dilute the cargo is also unclear.


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Nov 9, 2015, at 7:52 AM, STMFC@... wrote:
Any ideas of what caused the tank to fail?

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

Re: Nitric Acid Tank Cars

Mark Rickert <caboose9792@...>
 

also the jacket was open at the botom to let the product escape rather than be traped between the tank and shell with the insulation acting as a sponge. atmospheric mosture would otherwise react eat though the botom of the jacket and attack things under the car like frame or bolsters weekining them.

I beleve its train shead cylapeda #12 that has an offical explanation and cross sections.

Mark Rickert
caboose9792@...


-----Original Message-----
From: blindog@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: 08-Nov-2015 22:50:22 +0000
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Nitric Acid Tank Cars

 

Bill Welch asked:

>Why were Nitric Acid tank cars built this way?
>
> US Holston Ordnance Works USOX 17021 nitric acid tank car 5x7 builder's photo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Holston-Ordnance-Works-USOX-17021-nitric-acid-tank-car-5x7-builders-photo-/371482700008?hash=item567e1828e8:g:b0IAAOSwu-BWP3TO

Because over a certain concentration (35% if memory serves), nitric acid gives off poisonous fumes that are heavier than air. My understanding was the jacket directed the fumes downward away from a worker on the car so they could dissipate. I think a few such tanks were also built for oleum (fuming sulphuric acid). Most such tanks had wooden shells.

Before my time....

Scott Chatfield
Re: Nitric Acid Tank Cars

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Bill Welch asked:

Why were Nitric Acid tank cars built this way?

US Holston Ordnance Works USOX 17021 nitric acid tank car 5x7 builder's photo
http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Holston-Ordnance-Works-USOX-17021-nitric-acid-tank-car-5x7-builders-photo-/371482700008?hash=item567e1828e8:g:b0IAAOSwu-BWP3TO


Because over a certain concentration (35% if memory serves), nitric acid gives off poisonous fumes that are heavier than air. My understanding was the jacket directed the fumes downward away from a worker on the car so they could dissipate. I think a few such tanks were also built for oleum (fuming sulphuric acid). Most such tanks had wooden shells.

Before my time....

Scott Chatfield
Re: Epson decal printing

sprinthag@...
 

June 2003 Model Railroader. "Painting" with Decals.
What the author did was to "paint" a N scale caboose using decals he printed for the entire car. He painted the cab light grey so the decal colors would show well.
His settings include selecting a glossy paper, such a glossy photo paper so the printer would only place enough ink on the paper to prevent extremely long drying times. He also suggests increasing the contrast and reducing the brightness of the photo used to make the printer print good color (standard contrast settings would yield a faded version while standard brightness would make some colors to overpowering).
His N scale cab looks pretty good and it is one that has a lot of tagging on it which would be hard to do any other way.
I don't know if I would attempt to use a solid sheet decal to "paint" anything bigger than an N scale model. Even at the he had to cut the decal in 3 pieces for the sides.
but hey, it worked for him.
John Hagen
Re: Nitric Acid Tank Cars

Richard Townsend
 

Kaminski's ACF book has a 1940 Monsanto tank car similar to the Army one and he again says the casing is designed to prevent the trapping of acid vapors.
 
Don't forget Ambroid's Riverside Oil car, which had a similar casing, but it was corrugated.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2015 4:35 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Nitric Acid Tank Cars

 
In the 1940 CBC, reprinted in Train Shed #12, ACF explains with respect to its new nitric acid tank car design,
 
"The  tank is shrouded with an open hearth steel casing, inverted "U" shaped, open at the bottom. The casing is spaced 2 in. from the tank by aluminum brackets. Vents in the dome casing prevent the trapping of acid fumes in the space between tank and casing."
 
They say the tank is aluminum alloy (hence the AL in ICC-103-C-AL) with triple aluminum riveted seams. The dome is of "special design" 
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR 
Re: Nitric Acid Tank Cars

Richard Townsend
 

In the 1940 CBC, reprinted in Train Shed #12, ACF explains with respect to its new nitric acid tank car design,
 
"The  tank is shrouded with an open hearth steel casing, inverted "U" shaped, open at the bottom. The casing is spaced 2 in. from the tank by aluminum brackets. Vents in the dome casing prevent the trapping of acid fumes in the space between tank and casing."
 

They say the tank is aluminum alloy (hence the AL in ICC-103-C-AL) with triple aluminum riveted seams. The dome is of "special design" 
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR 
Re: Nitric Acid Tank Cars

gary laakso
 

The only other cars that I have seen with this type of covering are UTLX 85704 and UTLX 85925 (page 18 of Tank Car Color Guide Vol. 1) used for the transport of transformer oil.  Perhaps, this car was an add-on to one of those car orders, though neither has the dome platform. 
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock and still shaving rivets
 

Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 11:56 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Nitric Acid Tank Cars
 
 

Why were Nitric Acid tank cars built this way?

US Holston Ordnance Works USOX 17021 nitric acid tank car 5x7 builder's photo



Bill Welch
Re: Epson decal printing

mwbauers
 

There is that circa late-90’s article in MR titled something like ’painting with decals’……….. Done with a corrected for tilt and missing section set of pictures of an urban jungle tagged BN caboose with an Epson photo-printer on decal paper.

So it does work if done correctly. He adjusted the amount of ink used and a [drying] delay between printing individual sheets. 

I believe ordinary decal paper was used, possibly pre-painted with the base color.

I can dig up a post I sent a while ago with the particulars on the settings used.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Nov 8, 2015, at 5:50 PM, 'John Hagen'  wrote:


 

Garth,

Epson (or HP or Canon or any other inkjet), must have paper designed for inkjet printers. Dye or pigment based, inkjets papers have a coating that will allow the inks to soak in. Microscale paper is not for use in an inkjet so the inks just lay on the surface and may likely not dry in our lifetime. Using a better than normal mode for printing will increase the amount of ink deposited on the paper so even when using inkjet paper the ink will blur and stay liquid for a long time.

The problem with any printer that cannot print a layer of white ink as an undercoat is that the colors will not be opaque. If you are printing black decals or if the surface you are placing the decals on is white, they will be fine. If they are placed on a colored surface, the surface color will show thru and, depending on the surface color, cause a color shift or make the decal just about totally invisible.

Laser printers will print on Microscale paper but will have the same problem with opaqueness or the lack thereof..

BTW, I print decals. Have for over 10 years. I have had several HP’s and currently own 2 Epson’s and did have 1 Canon (hated it, but I do like their cameras). None of them were/are capable of printing decals, except black of course.
Re: Epson decal printing

John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

 

Garth,

Epson (or HP or Canon or any other inkjet), must have paper designed for inkjet printers. Dye or pigment based, inkjets papers have a coating that will allow the inks to soak in. Microscale paper is not for use in an inkjet so the inks just lay on the surface and may likely not dry in our lifetime. Using a better than normal mode for printing will increase the amount of ink deposited on the paper so even when using inkjet paper the ink will blur and stay liquid for a long time.

The problem with any printer that cannot print a layer of white ink as an undercoat is that the colors will not be opaque. If you are printing black decals or if the surface you are placing the decals on is white, they will be fine. If they are placed on a colored surface, the surface color will show thru and, depending on the surface color, cause a color shift or make the decal just about totally invisible.

Laser printers will print on Microscale paper but will have the same problem with opaqueness or the lack thereof..

BTW, I print decals. Have for over 10 years. I have had several HP’s and currently own 2 Epson’s and did have 1 Canon (hated it, but I do like their cameras). None of them were/are capable of printing decals, except black of course.

John Hagen

OBS-CALS – your source for Obscure DecalS

 

Mike and Friends,

While snooping around a local hobby shop last week I discovered Testors
Decal Paper No. 9201. It is a package of six 5.5 x 8.5" sheets. I paid
$11.25. I also purchased a 3 ounce can of Testors Decal Bonder Spray No.
9200 for $5.25.

I tried this "paper" in my Epson Stylus Photo 1400 which uses Claria
"inks". The decals printed very well when the setting was for "plain
paper" and quality set at "normal" per the instructions. One sheet was
printed with the "glossy photo paper" setting, and the lettering came
out fuzzy (I couldn't change the setting for some reason, but later
copied the file and appended it to another already set correctly and it
worked fine the second time). I let the ink dry for 24 hours, then shot
each sheet with two coats of the Bonder Spray (laying on and laying
off). There's enough in the can to do about eight sheets with two coats.

Except for the one software failure, I am pleased with the results so
far. As I don't have any of the models planned for these decals ready, I
haven't yet applied any. I will experiment with them shortly.

For comparison, I printed one sheet of Microscale TF-0 clear trim film
and experienced the same problems of the ink not drying. Into the trash!

If I experiment further, I will test other types of coatings such as
Testor's Dullcote or Krylon to see how they will react with the inks,
and whether decals treated with them will hold up during application.

I'm also going to try having my files printed with a laser printer on
the Microscale paper by a local copy shop/printer I've used for other
special jobs. Our planned acquisition of a laser printer at work didn't
happen.

After poking around on the internet, I found some interesting
information about the Epson "inks". Epson Claria "inks" are not inks at
all, but dyes. They don't have the same drying properties as HP, Lexmark
or Cannon inks. That is why you can't generally print with an Epson in
color on photo paper or other media from manufacturers other than Epson.
The only non-Epson photo paper that seems to work is Office Depot's
house brand which I can no longer get in my area (our OD store closed,
and the closest is 75 miles away in Richmond). My earlier Epson 440
worked just fine in color on almost any paper. This machine used real inks.

And by the way, I used a light yellow-orange color for decals for my
Sacramento Belt line, a fictional Western Pacific subsidiary. This is
similar to what the WP applied to most of their new and repainted cars
starting in 1955. Decals intended for my Virginia Midland equipment were
printed in a very light gray which approximates silver. It will be
interesting to see how these look. I also did some in black, including
lettering for a gray Detroit & Mackinac boxcar I've always wanted.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff
Re: Nitric Acid Tank Cars

mwbauers
 

i’ll attach a blow-up clip of the Monsanto acid car wrapper.

It looks like its labeled for '95-percent Nitric Acid Only’, builders date of 6-45.

I expect that the model car kit and its data are from the real thing.

Let me know if you’d like the full scan including the ‘Itstinks and Howe’ chemical wrapper. 600-dpi pdf on those….

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Nov 8, 2015, at 5:17 PM, Jon Miller  wrote:


On 11/8/2015 2:46 PM, Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC] wrote:
Have we considered that it is merely a trial balloon of a car ???

    In the early days (50s, grin) M Dale Newton had a model of one of these.  I believe he used a cardboard wrapper.  All my Newton stuff is gone so don't remember the lettering on the car.
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