Date   
Re: Tichy Tank Car with AB Brakes

al_brown03
 

While the USRA tank car (as Tony notes) wasn't built, the WWII-era USG-A cars had four horizontal courses like the Tichy kit; some underframe modifications are needed, but one can get pretty close. A few articles: Hendrickson, RMJ 10/90 pp 48-49, 67; Goslett, RMJ 4/91 pp 24-25; Pinchbeck, RMC 7/02 pp 91-99; Waite, MM 1/06 pp 60-64. All these articles show the brake systems.


Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Re: Tichy Tank Car with AB Brakes

Tony Thompson
 

John Golden wrote:

 
I'm building up the Tichy tank car this week and would prefer to model a car with AB brakes.  Does anyone have a photo of a USRA tank or a very similar car you could send so I can get the reservoir and valve placement correct?

    There was, of course, no USRA tank car built, so a photo would be unlikely.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




Tichy Tank Car with AB Brakes

golden1014
 

Hello Gents,


I'm building up the Tichy tank car this week and would prefer to model a car with AB brakes.  Does anyone have a photo of a USRA tank or a very similar car you could send so I can get the reservoir and valve placement correct?


Thanks,

John


John Golden

OFallon, IL





Re: Question about early steel roofs for boxcars

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <tony@...> wrote :


      Obviously if the roof has zero stiffness and no crosswise constraint, the kitbox example is a good illustration. But try clipping crosswise pieces to each side. Now you can't twist the open box nearly as easily. That's what steel carlines did, particularly when tied to a stiff plate atop the sides.
====================
If they are only cross pieces, they don't help at all... but I'll grant you that by the late twenties most steel carlines had Y shaped ends, so started to add racking resistance. Full X bracing, like the lateral bracing between bridge girders would have helped a lot more, and I'm surprised that this solution wasn't adopted, but I can think of two negatives: slightly decreased headroom, and slightly increased weight high in the car.

The Robertson circular roof attempted to make the sheathing into a shear panel; tough to do with individual boards. He specified they be run diagonally, and keyed adjacent edges with cast iron key blocks to unify them into a panel. Still, it was a kludge, and the better solution was to add heavy enough steel panels, riveted into a single unit, and just live with the increased tare weight.

Dennis Storzek



Re: Down Memory Lane . . .

Bill Welch
 

One quibble Ben
McKeAn = FORMER Kit manufacturer.

Bill Welch

Re: Down Memory Lane . . .

Benjamin Hom
 

Bill Welch wrote:
"Thank you to all that responded to my inquiry on and off list. It reminded me that since I model October 1955 the Front Range and McKeen kits with their late Improved Dreadnaught ends would have been very new and of limited use for me, 2 or 3 models at best."

One quibble:
McKeEn = Knife prow railcar designer.
McKeAn = Kit manufacturer.


Ben Hom

Re: Question about early steel roofs for boxcars

Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

 

But not totally true, Tony. Here's an illustration of the problem: Take an open Accurail kit box, either base or lid, grasp each end, and twist.


     Does this only work with Accurail boxes?

Watch the shape of the opening. None of the five panels have changed shape (at least they did not become non-square, but the open top certainly does. That is the problem the early roof systems had to deal with. The steel framed cars likely helped, not so much their side frames but their more ridged underframes resisted twisting better, but the problem wasn't totally solved until the car builders were able to complete the fourth side of the tube, by using a roof that in itself had sufficient resistance to racking.


      Obviously if the roof has zero stiffness and no crosswise constraint, the kitbox example is a good illustration. But try clipping crosswise pieces to each side. Now you can't twist the open box nearly as easily. That's what steel carlines did, particularly when tied to a stiff plate atop the sides.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




Down Memory Lane . . .

Bill Welch
 

Thank you to all that responded to my inquiry on and off list. It reminded me that since I model October 1955 the Front Range and McKeen kits with their late Improved Dreadnaught ends would have been very new and of limited use for me, 2 or 3 models at best.


Bill Welch

Re: Question about early steel roofs for boxcars

Dennis Storzek
 

But not totally true, Tony. Here's an illustration of the problem: Take an open Accurail kit box, either base or lid, grasp each end, and twist. Watch the shape of the opening. None of the five panels have changed shape (at least they did not become non-square, but the open top certainly does. That is the problem the early roof systems had to deal with. The steel framed cars likely helped, not so much their side frames but their more ridged underframes resisted twisting better, but the problem wasn't totally solved until the car builders were able to complete the fourth side of the tube, by using a roof that in itself had sufficient resistance to racking.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Question about early steel roofs for boxcars

Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

 

 . . .  while the sheets stayed square, the roof structure they were fastened to didn't, since wood framed cars of the period tended to "weave" as the trade press of the day called it. The solution was the various flexible metal roof products that came out right after WWI, which typically had rectangular seam caps with wood fillers that allowed some movement of the sheets.

This is also the problem described in Robertson's patent on what we know as the NP "circular" roof. By combining the two facets of the common peaked roof into one continuous surface and running the sheathing on the diagonal, enough rigidity was gained to allow a sheet metal covering to survive. Of course the adoption of rigid steel roofs on the eave of WWII solved this problem once and for all.

       Good description of the entire problem with wood-framed cars with wood carlines. But as single-sheathed cars with steel superstructure frames and steel carlines came into use, I would guess the roof sheathing problem became much less demanding. There are comments in _Railway Age_ articles in the 1920s about the large reduction in body "weaving" with single-sheath construction.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




Re: Question about early steel roofs for boxcars

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <paulandclaire@...> wrote :

My question concerns the details of what appears to be an early Murphy roof on these cars - the drawings don't really show it well and the photo is not good either, so I am asking if anyone can please assist me with detail photos or drawings of the roof ribs and flashings?  I am intending to 3D-print masters so I can have brass castings made - the body will be etched brass - and if I'm putting all that effort in, I'd like to make them as accurate as possible.
===============

The easiest place to find better detailed information on the vendor supplied "specialties" used on freight cars of this era is the Car Builder's Dictionary, several of these are available on-line, this web site has a list and links:
PacifcNG.org
 
Pick an edition from a few years before the subject car was built and browse the section on roofs.

That being said, these early metal roofs with the round seam caps held on by cast iron clasps at the eaves didn't last long in service. I had a chance to inspect the inside of one of the 1917 built NYC auto cars that I did patterns for (I suspect this is the same car you are modeling) and it was clearly stenciled inside, "NEW ROOF APPLIED E.R." (East Rochester, the big shop) and a date in 1922, when the car was only five years old. The problem was the roof sheets cracked and tore. The more clasps they added at the eaves, the worse the problem became, because while the sheets stayed square, the roof structure they were fastened to didn't, since wood framed cars of the period tended to "weave" as the trade press of the day called it. The solution was the various flexible metal roof products that came out right after WWI, which typically had rectangular seam caps with wood fillers that allowed some movement of the sheets.

This is also the problem described in Robertson's patent on what we know as the NP "circular" roof. By combining the two facets of the common peaked roof into one continuous surface and running the sheathing on the diagonal, enough rigidity was gained to allow a sheet metal covering to survive. Of course the adoption of rigid steel roofs on the eave of WWII solved this problem once and for all.

Dennis Storzek

 


 

Re: Down Memory Lane: 40-ft Steel cars from Front Range and McKeen

Alexander Schneider Jr
 

Rib Side Cars is presently inactive due to the owner's health issues.

Alex Schneider
 


From: "cepropst@q.com [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 9:41 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Down Memory Lane: 40-ft Steel cars from Front Range and McKeen



Speaking of company demises. Anyone have the straight skinny on “Rib Side Cars”??
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa




Rib Side Cars Re: Down Memory Lane: 40-ft Steel cars from Front Range and McKeen

Paul Krueger
 

Ted Schnepf told me Rib Side Cars has shut down.  Their web site is still up, but does not appear to have changed for a long time.  It would be nice to see their line continue or be replicated.

Paul

Paul Krueger
Seattle, WA

Re: Down Memory Lane: 40-ft Steel cars from Front Range and McKeen

Clark Propst
 

Speaking of company demises. Anyone have the straight skinny on “Rib Side Cars”??
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

Re: Rock Island Dri-Protectocar

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

The box originally had a door. What the purpose for the box was, I don’t know, but an in-service photo of CRIX 20528 shows a door.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 4:42 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Rock Island Dri-Protectocar

In a message dated 11/6/2015 12:04:54 P.M. Central Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
Don't know the story of the "Dri-Protectocar", but before someone starts commenting on the weathering, the photo shows the car at the Illinois Railway Museum loooong after it was out of service. How do I know? I recognize the scaffold in the lower left of the pic.

Dennis Storzek

I agree with Dennis, I was even inside that car when it was parked at that spot. If you look closely below and to the left of the door is a box with only an opening on the front attached to the underframe, no idea what that was. I don't recall seeing anything special inside the car seemed like a typical insulated boxcar. The data at the far left is the cars "return to" information.

Mark Rickert







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: BAR 1932 Box cars

Misc Clark
 

Looking forward to the 1932 ARA box car digital version, Ted! Many thanks for your scholarship and generosity!
regards,
Clark Cone

On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 6:23 AM, Ted Culotta speedwitchmedia@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

This thread seems to be as good a place as any to mention that for anyone interested, I will be posting an electronic version of the 1932 ARA box car book later this week. It's been sold out for quite a few years now, and I have no plans to reprint. The e-book version will be "printable" if you choose and I will post a guide about how to do that.

Also, I am working an a small ebook addendum to the 1932 ARA book, based upon additional photos and information collected in the subsequent years.

Thank you.

Cheers,
Ted Culotta


Re: B&O C17 express car

Bill Lane
 

Ed

Please reply directly to bill@...

I would very much like to get whatever you have on this car.

Thanks
Bill

Re: Rock Island Dri-Protectocar

caboose9792@...
 

 
 
In a message dated 11/6/2015 12:04:54 P.M. Central Standard Time, STMFC@... writes:
Don't know the story of the "Dri-Protectocar", but before someone starts commenting on the weathering, the photo shows the car at the Illinois Railway Museum loooong after it was out of service. How do I know? I recognize the scaffold in the lower left of the pic.

Dennis Storzek
 
I agree with Dennis, I was even inside that car when it was parked at that spot. If you look closely below and to the left of the door is a box with only an opening on the front attached to the underframe, no idea what that was. I don't recall seeing anything special inside the car seemed like a typical insulated boxcar. The data at the far left is the cars "return to" information.
 
Mark Rickert

Re: NORTHERN PACIFIC STOCK CARS

Gene Deimling
 

Bill 
 The NP Modeler group has photos of a restored car in Duluth. 
 Gene

Re: Down Memory Lane: 40-ft Steel cars from Front Range and McKeen

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <tgregmrtn@...> wrote :

I have often wondered what happened to this tooling after the break up of Front Range and Sky Lim or if the kit even made it there. I often wondered if this was just a set of inserts that fit the mold base of the other four plus Front Range 40-foot offering. If the inserts are out there I just wonder why the haven't been run in the owners line of cars. I have heard but can not confirm that the Front Range inserts were aluminum.
===================

Some of this was due to the fact that at each sale, bankruptcy auction, change of name, some of the hard tooling assets would simply disappear, only to emerge again in a later iteration of the principle's business. This was the case with the center-beam lumber flat (too modern for this list), the GP-9, and the molded on detail boxcar of which you speak.

And yes, all the front range tooling was aluminum. The folks at Front Range always knew that aluminum tooling was perishable, but always figured they would remake parts as needed, since it was all CNC cut directly in the inserts, and they retained the toolpath programs. That changed after the firm's initial (and only, as far as I am concerned) toolmaker left to join Intermountain; then there was no one left who could actually do it.

Consequently, each subsequent owner beat the tooling to death, and then beat it to death again. When we cleaned out the assets from the Sky Lim bankruptcy, we found a literal truckload of the molded on details boxcar bodies, with no roofs or underframes; those tools had died and not been repaired or replaced. The bodies had a rather strange parting line between the sides and ends that followed the curve of the W section corners, these had been flashing badly and we decided the bodies were a total loss; we ground them and reclaimed the styrene.

The separate detail 40' car wasn't much better, and since it essentially duplicated the 40' car we already had in the line, we never did any work on it. Bill and Leon from Red Caboose expressed an interest, but wanted samples run before they would consummate the deal, so I hung the tool at our place, and, to my complete amazement, that old beater started making parts on the first shot. They signed the check.

The fifty foot car package was a floor, ends, and six different pairs of sides, so of course the inserts common to all six of the bodies had six times the wear. The Improved Dreadnaught ends from our own 40' car ere correct for the car, and could be made to work, but that required the body be revised to have the roof molded on the body, rather than the floor. The Front Range roof wasn't anything to write home about anyway, so we tooled a new roof, from steel. I have nothing against aluminum tooling, it has it's place, but high wear items are best done in hard tool steel. The doors are the original Front Range tooling... there were two pair of those Superior plug doors, along with a pair of Youngstown doors and a pair of Youngstown auxiliary doors (mo latch or tack board), all in the same tool, with no way to shut any cavities off. We used to be awash in plug doors every time we ran that tool. Finally found time last year to revise the sprue bushing on this mold, so it now selects only one set of cavities at a time. I took the opportunity to pocket out one pair of the plug doors and install a pair of superior panel doors in their place.

Dennis Storzek