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Re: CNW SS box car data
Tony Thompson
Lester Breuer wrote:
The 1928 Cyc shows both the 1922 and 1924 ARA underframe designs. I included the latter photo in my Volume 4 on box cars, in the _Southern Pacific Freight Cars_ series. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Small Paint Jars
I have bunches of empty jars but the lids (specifically the liners) are what wear out and stop working -- those 27 cent replacement lids look like just the ticket! Tim O'
Thanks Bill, Great find, Guess I will get an order going.
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CNW SS box car data
frograbbit602
When doing some research for a model project I was reading Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Vol. 1, compiled by Ted Culotta, page 52 on Chicago & North Western single-sheathed box cars. Here he states, " these cars were different from the USRA cars through the use of the ARA 1922 center sill." I looked in the 1922 and 1925 Car Builders Cyclopedia in the freight car construction sections on underframes and could not find any reference to an ARA center sill. Based on the photo on page 52, I can see it was a straight sill. I am asking if someone can point to a photo or diagram of an underframe with the USRA 1922 center sill Ted is referring to. Thank You for the time and effort to help in advance. Lester Breuer
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Re: Lumber Loads in 1947, 1952, and 1957 - Changes in Types of Cars
Dennis Storzek
I missed this point in my previous answer...
"Did the construction industry change from needing/wanting dry lumber to green or did they accept undried lumber because it was being shipped that way?" Lumber being shipped to market is by no means "green" lumber. Green lumber can have anywhere from 30% to 200% moisture content... 100% being when all the water chemically bound in the cell walls is present, when first felled, timber will also have additional free water in the cells. Air drying, by stacking under cover with "stickers" (thin strips of wood to keep the layers separated) will typically take that down to 20%, possibly as low as 12%. This is adequate for lumber to be used for structural purposes. Kiln drying typically takes this down to the 8-10% range, which is preferred for trim, flooring and millwork. Rule of thumb is wood for these uses should be dried slightly dryer than the environment it will be used in, so it swells slightly and tightens joints, etc. as it comes into equilibrium with its surroundings. Laying flooring, for instance, that is too dry runs the risk of having it swell and buckle. There is an interesting chart in the US Forest Service Wood Handbook: http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr190/chapter_04.pdf That shows the equilibrium moisture content wood will attain when exposed to environments having different relative humidity: at 40% RH at 70 deg.F wood will eventually go to about 6%, while at 70% RH and 70 deg. F wood will eventually come into equilibrium at 12%. which is why doors, drawers, and windows tend to stick and change with the seasons. At 90% RH at 90 deg. F wood will go to 20%, and any effect of kiln drying to a lower moisture content will be lost. More than you wanted to know, I'm sure. Dennis Storzek
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1st Qtr. 2016 NYCentral Modeler is Here!!
Noel Widdifield
NYCentral Modeler 1st Qtr. 2016
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Re: CNJ USRA SS box cars
Eric Hansmann
Westerfield makes some great sets for USRA single-sheathed box cars.
Here’s a link to their single-sheathed offerings. Pick out the appropriate sets for the USRA cars. https://id18538.securedata.net/westerfieldmodels.com/merchantmanager/index.php?cPath=133_242
Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 12:15 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] CNJ USRA SS box cars
I envy you Eric.Unfortunately there is a lack of quality decals.I have several kits awaiting proper decals.Armand Premo
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Re: Lumber Loads in 1947, 1952, and 1957 - Changes in Types of Cars
Mark Hemphill
Jim:
To answer your questions about changes in the lumber industry, I suggest reading Nelson Courtland Brown, Lumber: Manufacturing, Conditioning, Grading, Distribution, and Use, John Wiley & Sons, 1947. It's available free on-line to read at http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/001508348 In particular, chapters 8, Merchandising, Distribution, and Use, and 9, Shipping and Traffic, have a wealth of information that will help inform the use of rolling stock, origin-destination pairs, traffic and rates, and ladings. I should note as a caveat that every time I've referred to Brown in various model railroad and railroad historical forums over the years, it's been strongly disputed. So, perhaps Brown was completely out to lunch. But, I like Brown because his information, conclusions, and observations correlates well with my own experience with traffic in my own railroad career, and with my received knowledge of lumber buying practices and use for large-scale commercial construction from working for a father during my teens who built between 200 and 1000 housing units a year. One particular thing I pay attention to in Brown, buried in the details, is his observations of the substantial regional variations in the way lumber was manufactured, distributed, purchased, and used in 1947. Some of that variation has gone away today, but having lived in 14 states now thanks to railroads, and having purchased houses in six of them, I am still amazed how builders in one state do things as a common, best practice that in another state would be considered dead wrong and uninformed. Mark Hemphill
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Re: CNJ USRA SS box cars
armprem
I envy you Eric.Unfortunately
there is a lack of quality decals.I have several kits awaiting
proper decals.Armand Premo
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Re: Lumber Loads in 1947, 1952, and 1957 - Changes in Types of Cars
Dennis Storzek
---In STMFC@..., <jimbetz@...> wrote : Hi, Greg's post is interesting - who is the cart and who is the horse. Did the construction industry change from needing/wanting dry lumber to green or did they accept undried lumber because it was being shipped that way? Or simply because it was cheaper? ============== My Dad was a carpenter during the years immediately after WWII, and I worked in the trade myself for a number of years... Through the years covered by this list, most wood structures had plaster interior finish. It's true that drywall (called "plaster board" at the time) was introduced sometime in the WWI era, but its initial use was to replace the wood lath behind the plaster, and most buildings still had a two coat plaster finish about 1/2" thick applied to the gypsum board "rock lath". When this much plaster was used in a building, it introduced one heck of a lot of water, and it took weeks for the buildings to dry out so they could be trimmed. I still remember how cold and damp a building was when the plasterers were working, and it's a wonder those guys didn't all wind up with rheumatism and arthritis; many of them probably did. "Fine" homes were still being plastered in the Chicago area into the early seventies, well past the period of our interest. With that much moisture in the building for several weeks, the wood structure took up water and reached an equilibrium moisture content not much different from common air dried lumber, so there was not much sense in specifying kiln dried, after all running a dry kiln was expensive, compared to the sun and wind, which were free. Back in those years kiln drying was reserved for lumber that would become high value products; furniture, cabinets, and doors and sash, where the mill wanted to ensure that the parts they cut would remain about the size they cut them, and not shrink further after assembly. Dennis Storzek
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Re: CNJ USRA SS box cars
Eric Hansmann
I just painted a few Tichy USRA SS cars and I will lean heavily on the RPCyc photos when the decal itch strikes. RPCyc 16 was a HUGE assist when I decaled a half dozen USRA DS cars. My focus is 1926 so I suspect few cars were repainted in six years of service time.
Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 10:32 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] CNJ USRA SS box cars
Thank you, Eric. I checked my library, but neglected the RP Cyc, an excellent resource!
Dave
On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 11:19 AM, "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
Dave,
Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia, Volume 17, notes the CNJ cars were rebuilt with Hutchins roofs and 221 cars were in service in July 1951. The volume contains two images of the CNJ USRA SS cars. A builder image of 20029 and an image of CNJ 20370 that has a reweigh date of 5-46. CNJ 20370 has been updated with a replacement Ajax power hand brake but retains the KC brake components and the original roof. The caption notes there were 32 of these CNJ cars by October 1953. Specific car numbers for roof upgrades or the dates of those upgrades are not noted.
Lastly, CNJ 20370 has the san-serif CNJ lettering with the Lady Liberty emblem.
Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX
From: STMFC@...
[mailto: STMFC@... ]
I am building a Westerfield CNJ USRA 40’ SS box car, and have 2 questions that I hope you folks can help with. I am building the kit to represent a late ‘40’s or early ‘50’s car. The kit comes with K brake gear, but I would like to know if they were converted to AB brakes. Also, would the lettering have ever been changed to the Statue of Liberty scheme? The kit decals are for earlier schemes. I have not found any photos of these cars. Thanks for your help.
Dave Pfeiffer
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Re: CNJ USRA SS box cars
Dave Pfeiffer
Thank you, Eric. I checked my library, but neglected the RP Cyc, an excellent resource! Dave
On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 11:19 AM, "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]" wrote: Dave,
Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia, Volume 17,
notes the CNJ cars were rebuilt with Hutchins roofs and 221 cars were in
service in July 1951. The volume contains two images of the CNJ USRA SS cars. A
builder image of 20029 and an image of CNJ 20370 that has a reweigh date of 5-46.
CNJ 20370 has been updated with a replacement
Ajax power hand brake but retains the KC
brake components and the original roof. The caption notes there were 32 of
these CNJ cars by October 1953. Specific car numbers for roof upgrades or the
dates of those upgrades are not noted.
Lastly, CNJ 20370 has the san-serif CNJ
lettering with the Lady Liberty emblem.
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
From:
STMFC@... [mailto: STMFC@... ]
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 8:03 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] CNJ USRA SS box cars I am building a
Westerfield CNJ USRA 40’ SS box car, and have 2 questions that I hope you
folks can help with. I am building the kit to represent a late
‘40’s or early ‘50’s car. The kit comes with K
brake gear, but I would like to know if they were converted to AB brakes.
Also, would the lettering have ever been changed to the Statue of Liberty
scheme? The kit decals are for earlier schemes. I have not found
any photos of these cars. Thanks for your help.
Dave Pfeiffer
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Re: Lumber Loads in 1947, 1952, and 1957 - Changes in Types of Cars
mwbauers
For this…..
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I would consider using a solid color wood-tone card-stock sourced from the craft world. Print a wood grain on the top boards leaving the basic color alone, and stack the card stock as a hollow cored block with some randomness to the ‘board’ ends to be the stack[s] of lumber. Best to ya, Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi
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Re: Lumber Loads in 1947, 1952, and 1957 - Changes in Types of Cars
Greg Martin
Hi Jim,
Let me answer this in context so we all can get
a clearer understanding as you have addresses several subjects that seem to
blend but might not:
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through
it. Norman Maclean Jim Betz writes:
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Re: CNJ USRA SS box cars
Eric Hansmann
Dave,
Railroad Prototype Cyclopedia, Volume 17, notes the CNJ cars were rebuilt with Hutchins roofs and 221 cars were in service in July 1951. The volume contains two images of the CNJ USRA SS cars. A builder image of 20029 and an image of CNJ 20370 that has a reweigh date of 5-46. CNJ 20370 has been updated with a replacement Ajax power hand brake but retains the KC brake components and the original roof. The caption notes there were 32 of these CNJ cars by October 1953. Specific car numbers for roof upgrades or the dates of those upgrades are not noted.
Lastly, CNJ 20370 has the san-serif CNJ lettering with the Lady Liberty emblem.
Eric Hansmann El Paso, TX
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 8:03 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] CNJ USRA SS box cars
I am building a Westerfield CNJ USRA 40’ SS box car, and have 2 questions that I hope you folks can help with. I am building the kit to represent a late ‘40’s or early ‘50’s car. The kit comes with K brake gear, but I would like to know if they were converted to AB brakes. Also, would the lettering have ever been changed to the Statue of Liberty scheme? The kit decals are for earlier schemes. I have not found any photos of these cars. Thanks for your help.
Dave Pfeiffer
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Re: Lumber Loads in 1947, 1952, and 1957 - Changes in Types of Cars
Hi,
Greg's post is interesting - who is the cart and who is the horse. Did the construction industry change from needing/wanting dry lumber to green or did they accept undried lumber because it was being shipped that way? Or simply because it was cheaper? I do know that people comment on the changes in the 'quality' of the wood used in home construction over the years ... This also explains why so many of the pics I saw (later on) were clearly lumber that was not "rough cut" ... just because it has been thru the planer doesn't mean it has also been kiln-dried. A how to question - I've often been less than satisfied with the texture of strip wood ... it just seems 'too rough'. Do you think that using strip wood for lumber loads in gons and on flat cars "works"? - Jim P.S. Clearly the siding at the mill has to have more box cars than flats.
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CNJ USRA SS box cars
Dave Pfeiffer
I am building a Westerfield CNJ USRA 40’ SS box car, and have 2 questions that I hope you folks can help with. I am building the kit to represent a late ‘40’s or early ‘50’s car. The kit comes with K brake gear, but I would like to know if they were converted to AB brakes. Also, would the lettering have ever been changed to the Statue of Liberty scheme? The kit decals are for earlier schemes. I have not found any photos of these cars. Thanks for your help.
Dave Pfeiffer
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Re: Lumber Loads in 1947, 1952, and 1957 - Changes in Types of Cars L...
Cyril Durrenberger
--------------------------------------------
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Mon, 12/21/15, tgregmrtn@aol.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
One thing to consider is that during the earlier days most lumber was dried or seasoned outside for a long period before shipped. So except for the finished lumber the grade of the unfinishedy lumber would not be changed by shipping on a flat car. Cyril Durrenberger Subject: Re: [STMFC] Lumber Loads in 1947, 1952, and 1957 - Changes in Types of Cars L... To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 21, 2015, 11:53 PM Tim, You might think in terms of "finished grades" and construction grades of lumber. I mentioned earlier that "finished grades: were more of precision kiln dried mouldings, profiles and siding, but it included flooring, stair treads and the like. This would always be shipped in boxcars regardless. When you are thinking of building material grades of lumber most kiln dried or air dried material was shipped in boxcars, but un-seasoned or "green" lumber would ship exposed. The weather would have little or no impacted on the grade only appearance. The grade in all cases was established at the end of the green chain at the sort and didn't change once the grader left his stamp. Greg Martin Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it. Norman Maclean In a message dated 12/20/2015 2:43:51 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, STMFC@yahoogroups.com writes: Is there any information available regarding the DISTANCE travelled by open cars vs closed cars with lumber? Most open loads back then appear to be unwrapped lumber and I'm guessing many grades of lumber would not do well if exposed to rain for long cross-country trips that could easily (and typically) take 10 days or more. Or is that not true, was rain not a factor? Tim O'Connor #yiv7227898683 #yiv7227898683 -- #yiv7227898683ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #yiv7227898683 #yiv7227898683ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #yiv7227898683 #yiv7227898683ygrp-mkp #yiv7227898683hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #yiv7227898683 #yiv7227898683ygrp-mkp #yiv7227898683ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #yiv7227898683 #yiv7227898683ygrp-mkp .yiv7227898683ad { padding:0 0;} #yiv7227898683 #yiv7227898683ygrp-mkp .yiv7227898683ad p { margin:0;} #yiv7227898683 #yiv7227898683ygrp-mkp .yiv7227898683ad a { color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} #yiv7227898683 #yiv7227898683ygrp-sponsor #yiv7227898683ygrp-lc { font-family:Arial;} #yiv7227898683 #yiv7227898683ygrp-sponsor #yiv7227898683ygrp-lc #yiv7227898683hd { margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #yiv7227898683 #yiv7227898683ygrp-sponsor #yiv7227898683ygrp-lc .yiv7227898683ad { 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Re: Request for dates of proto meets, historical society events, other scale modeling-related events
Dave here's the information on the MPHS Name of event Missouri Pacific Historical Society Annual MeetingDate and times October 6-9, 2016 Location Jefferson City, Missouri VERY short description: Historical presentations, modeling clinics, swap meet and annual meeting Cost - I'll know this as hotel arrangements are finalized but one should check the web site below for updates Contact information marketing@... web site if any 2016 Jefferson City, MO - On the Ready Track
Charlie Duckworth
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Re: Small Paint Jars
Rich C
Thanks Bill, Great find, Guess I will get an order going. Rich Christie
On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 6:23 AM, "Rich C rhcdmc@... [STMFC]" wrote: Bill, Is the jar top the same as the Floquil/Testors jars that fit most airbrushes? Rich Christie On Sunday, December 20, 2015 4:27 PM, "fgexbill@... [STMFC]" wrote: A friend just called asking for the paint jar source I have previously noted. He could not find my post. Just in case others need it here it is: : 1/2 oz Clear Glass Round Packer Bottle 28-400 : Glass Packer Bottles
Below the jars you will see a variety of lids. I purchased the white ones with the plastic liner. I think I ordered 6 dozen jars and seven dozen lids. There is a price break on shipping when you order in quantity. Excellent service. Quality is very high. Bill Welch
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Re: Small Paint Jars
Bill Welch
Exactly the same Rich.
Bill Welch
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