Date   

Re: Swayback Reefers

Dennis Storzek
 

Google "orthochromatic film." The chemistry was popular into at least the twenties because it was excellent at rendering detail, but did a very poor job of reproducing colors. This has been a bane for the Soo Line historian; that road had so few yellow cars the photographers didn't see the need to use panchromatic film, and about half the photos of reefers in the society freightcar book don't show any lettering at all. The film renders reds and yellows as such a dark graytone that the black lettering simply disappears. Blues, on the other hand, don't reproduce at all. I have a photo in the files at work of one of the Merchants Despatch wood reefers that appears to only have one stripe along the bottom, the red stripe rendered as jet black. The only way to tell there was also a blue stripe is the fact that the shadows cast by the V groove siding have simply disappeared in the area painted blue.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Reading Gondola 20967

RICH CHAPIN
 

Thx for the link Bob, in addition  to the RDG gon and that special HD flat, found number of other interesting shots, including a PRR HD generator wheel, Erie flat with transformers and two GN boxcars on a carfloat crossing Ross river.

 

Nice work for a day off

 

Happy New Year!!

 

Rich Chapin

27 Quincy Rd

Basking Ridge, NJ 07920-2222

 


Re: Swayback Reefers

mwbauers
 

I think it's the difference between orthographic chemistry and panographic chemistry film. Up to about 1930 the older chemistry with its different color translation was in use with both glass and later film negatives.
During about the '20's the other than most film applied chemistry with its different color absorption became today's preferred B/W photo chemistry.

Take that as the gist of it, the hard tech names may be different, but that is what happened. The old photo chemistry survived through the early era of a workable film media from its wet plate beginnings. 

Not until large scale mass production of later media films with the newer photo chemistry eclipsed the old tech, was the wet plate photo chemistry moved on by most people.

Into the 30's there was still some of the different spectrum absorbing photo chemistry in use.

That's the general situation. I have very specific links to documents going into greater depth on this including one that shows how best to interpret into actual colors for the B/W photos of the native Indians of the late 1800's. 

I didn't want hit anyone with a more in depth presentation. So I only skimmed the surface with that link.

As you can see I have to reread them to be certain to get my terms accurate beyond my present recall of the basics.

I'll access my computer in a few minutes and pass on a link to a page of links dealing with early 1900 and earlier 1800 paints and photo interpretation. They are closely related matters since almost all that we get to see of that past is the B/W photography of the day.

The several paint creation links to printed material of the day is timely since for many years including into the first years of this groups era of interest; many paints were made on the job from recipes, and we get to see photos of what was then and often confuse the newer color spectrum of the later B/W photos with what we think we see in the older chemistry photos.

Remember, up through the '30's the older chemistry was still in use. It makes color identification more challenging as you try to also cope with the different visual spectrums of the different photo processes.


Mike Bauers


On Dec 30, 2015, at 10:48 PM, "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Mike,


Note that the images you point to are wet plate images, which represent some of the older photographs we might look at as a group.   Interestingly, it is just as inappropriate to lump "black and white film" into a single category as it is to do so for color (think ektachrome versus kodachrome). Other B&W films had other responses to different colors.  As was pointed out to me a number of years ago, on some B&W film, the yellow lettering of UTLX tank cars disappears into the black of the tank car body.


As always, one must be careful interpreting color from any image, be it B&W or color !

Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL 


From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 8:46 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Swayback Reefers
 


That’s a quirk of the film emulsion chemistry.

Some very vivid color combinations that are easy to see the difference between in real color, turn into very similar grays in the old B/W film chemistry.

Look here, and you’ll see that very different looking orange, yellow, and green as colors, convert to almost identical grays in the old B/W film renderings.


the isolated image..



Isn’t that a mind-blower ?

Those cars could be very vividly colored in the full-spectrum world.


Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Dec 30, 2015, at 8:11 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee'  wrote:


Curious that you can read B&O on the car to the left of the reefers, but not a thing on the reefers themselves . . .

 

Schuyler

 


Subject: [STMFC] Swayback Reefers

 

The image link below is from the Seattle Municipal Archives and shows a string of reefers on Railroad Avenue. The date is July 19, 1917.
 
 Click on the link below and then click on the link below the image to see the TIF version and better details.
 




Testors Decal Printing Results

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Friends,

I finally got around to applying the decals I made using the Testors paper with my Epson Claria Photo 1400 printer. John's warning was absolutely right. The inks did not have enough opacity, and the lettering disappeared when I applied the decals to the car sides. Poop! These were done with colors approximating the orange-yellow used by the WP in the 1950s, and some in a light silver-gray, applied over boxcar red paint. I still have a sheet printed in black for the Detroit & Mackinac boxcar and for some Sacramento Belt Line RBLs with yellow sides, but I haven't built these cars yet. I suspect the black inks may work better. Maybe someone with a different brand of printer will get better results.

OTOH, the inks did not soften during the soaking process. I made sure the sheets had a double coating of the sealant, laid on and laid off. The decals soaked right off the paper and were easy to transfer to the car side. The product does work as advertised. The guy at the hobby store is also experimenting with the Testors decal sheets, and he claims any sprayed sealant will work.

I was using the sheets with a clear backing. Testors also offers sheets with a white background. This isn't going to work for freight car lettering, but certainly has applications for building signs.

More on this later.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 11/8/15 6:50 PM, 'John Hagen' sprinthag@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

 

Garth,

Epson (or HP or Canon or any other inkjet), must have paper designed for inkjet printers. Dye or pigment based, inkjets papers have a coating that will allow the inks to soak in. Microscale paper is not for use in an inkjet so the inks just lay on the surface and may likely not dry in our lifetime. Using a better than normal mode for printing will increase the amount of ink deposited on the paper so even when using inkjet paper the ink will blur and stay liquid for a long time.

The problem with any printer that cannot print a layer of white ink as an undercoat is that the colors will not be opaque. If you are printing black decals or if the surface you are placing the decals on is white, they will be fine. If they are placed on a colored surface, the surface color will show thru and, depending on the surface color, cause a color shift or make the decal just about totally invisible.

Laser printers will print on Microscale paper but will have the same problem with opaqueness or the lack thereof..

BTW, I print decals. Have for over 10 years. I have had several HP’s and currently own 2 Epson’s and did have 1 Canon (hated it, but I do like their cameras). None of them were/are capable of printing decals, except black of course.

John Hagen

OBS-CALS – your source for Obscure DecalS

 



Posted by: "John Hagen"
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Re: Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"

np328
 

  Turkeys, yes. 

Without giving too much away from my Cocoa Beach presentation next week, I will copy this word for word from the Feb 20, 1957 No. 134 AAR report.

     Frozen food loadings as reported in the commodity statistics of the ICC included fruits and berries, fresh vegetables, dressed poultry and frozen foods amounted to 25,116 carloads or 778,307 tons for the first three quarters of 1956. ....
    Recent reports by the Regional Shippers Advisory Boards indicated a continual increase in frozen food loadings estimating 7,491 carloads for the first quarter of 1957, an estimated increase of 13.4 percent over the volume handled during the first quarter of 1956.

             End of that.  

     From prior presentations I have given is this from a letter of May 14, 1957: Gone are the days when a processor could ship straight carloads to almost any wholesale grocer. The chain groups in almost every instance ask for assortments and the business goes to those who can offer this. -  from a shippers letter to a station agent.

     Drawing from my research over the years, the old markets and ways of doing things appear to be in flux especially in the last half of the fifties as technology in many forms is reaching into these industries.

Also, the article linked below talks of a Turkey Surplus in 1952, look about half way down.

The Strange History of Frozen Food: From Clarence Birdseye to the Distinguished Order of Zerocrats

                                                                                                 Jim Dick - St. Paul

   

 


 



Re: SMSX 100: Depressed Center Flat Car

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Here is the same car in 1936 on the same project with a different load.

 

Click on the link below and then click on the link below the image to see the TIF version and better details.

 

http://clerk.seattle.gov/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=railroad&S2=&S3=&l=100&Sect7=THUMBON&Sect6=HITOFF&Sect5=PHOT1&Sect4=AND&Sect3=PLURON&d=PHO2&p=13&u=%2F%7Epublic%2Fphot1.htm&r=1226&f=G

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


SMSX 100: Depressed Center Flat Car

thecitrusbelt@...
 

The image link below is from the Seattle Municipal Archives. It shows S. Morgan Smith Company’s special depressed center flat car in service on the Diablo Powerhouse Construction in September 1935. This appears to be a very specialized car. Note the trucks.

 

Click on the link below and then click on the link below the image to see the TIF version and better details.

 

http://clerk.seattle.gov/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=railroad&S2=&S3=&l=100&Sect7=THUMBON&Sect6=HITOFF&Sect5=PHOT1&Sect4=AND&Sect3=PLURON&d=PHO2&p=13&u=%2F%7Epublic%2Fphot1.htm&r=1209&f=G

 

Seattle Municipal Archives: http://www.seattle.gov/cityarchives/

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Reading Gondola 20967

thecitrusbelt@...
 

The image link below is from the Seattle Municipal Archives. It shows nice detail for Reading gondola 20967 in service on the Diablo Powerhouse construction  project in September 1935.

 

Click on the link below and then click on the link below the image to see the TIF version and better details.

 

http://clerk.seattle.gov/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=railroad&S2=&S3=&l=100&Sect7=THUMBON&Sect6=HITOFF&Sect5=PHOT1&Sect4=AND&Sect3=PLURON&d=PHO2&p=13&u=%2F%7Epublic%2Fphot1.htm&r=1207&f=G

 

And you’ll need to reverse the image.

 

Seattle Municipal Archives: http://www.seattle.gov/cityarchives/

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"

pennsylvania1954
 

Turkeys? I think of produce, not turkeys, when discussing ice reefer classes. A couple of these cars are listed in Portland, OR, consigned with turkeys to New York City. Realizing that the loads are iced, not frozen, will these birds still be edible when they get to NYC and are cooked on the fourth Thursday of November? That is a long way.

During the early 50's we had family friends with a turkey farm in Englishtown, NJ, right in the middle of the state. No doubt some of their birds made it to the City fresh.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: Photo-etched parts

Tim O'Connor
 


My favorite has been the "Peter Aue" system. It's remarkably easy to use,
very cost effective, and the results are quite spectacular. :-)

Tim O'Connor


  > Does anyone have any experience with the Micro-Mark Pro-Etch System?
  > Does it work to satisfaction? Is it over-priced? Are there better systems?
  > Thanks.  Mark Feddersen  Denver, Iowa


Photo-etched parts

feddersenmark
 

Does anyone have any experience with the Micro-Mark Pro-Etch System? Does it work to satisfaction? Is it over-priced? Are there better systems? Are they selling you a bunch of extra crap you don't need? Any advise is welcomed. Thanks.  Mark Feddersen  Denver, Iowa



Re: Swayback Reefers

Bruce Smith
 

Mike,


Note that the images you point to are wet plate images, which represent some of the older photographs we might look at as a group.   Interestingly, it is just as inappropriate to lump "black and white film" into a single category as it is to do so for color (think ektachrome versus kodachrome). Other B&W films had other responses to different colors.  As was pointed out to me a number of years ago, on some B&W film, the yellow lettering of UTLX tank cars disappears into the black of the tank car body.


As always, one must be careful interpreting color from any image, be it B&W or color !

Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL 


From: STMFC@... on behalf of Mike Bauers mwbauers55@... [STMFC]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 8:46 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Swayback Reefers
 


That’s a quirk of the film emulsion chemistry.

Some very vivid color combinations that are easy to see the difference between in real color, turn into very similar grays in the old B/W film chemistry.

Look here, and you’ll see that very different looking orange, yellow, and green as colors, convert to almost identical grays in the old B/W film renderings.


the isolated image..



Isn’t that a mind-blower ?

Those cars could be very vividly colored in the full-spectrum world.


Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Dec 30, 2015, at 8:11 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee'  wrote:


Curious that you can read B&O on the car to the left of the reefers, but not a thing on the reefers themselves . . .

 

Schuyler

 


Subject: [STMFC] Swayback Reefers

 

The image link below is from the Seattle Municipal Archives and shows a string of reefers on Railroad Avenue. The date is July 19, 1917.
 
 Click on the link below and then click on the link below the image to see the TIF version and better details.
 




Re: Swayback Reefers

mwbauers
 

That’s a quirk of the film emulsion chemistry.

Some very vivid color combinations that are easy to see the difference between in real color, turn into very similar grays in the old B/W film chemistry.

Look here, and you’ll see that very different looking orange, yellow, and green as colors, convert to almost identical grays in the old B/W film renderings.


the isolated image..



Isn’t that a mind-blower ?

Those cars could be very vividly colored in the full-spectrum world.


Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Dec 30, 2015, at 8:11 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee'  wrote:


Curious that you can read B&O on the car to the left of the reefers, but not a thing on the reefers themselves . . .

 

Schuyler

 


Subject: [STMFC] Swayback Reefers

 

The image link below is from the Seattle Municipal Archives and shows a string of reefers on Railroad Avenue. The date is July 19, 1917.
 
 Click on the link below and then click on the link below the image to see the TIF version and better details.
 


Re: Swayback Reefers

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Curious that you can read B&O on the car to the left of the reefers, but not a thing on the reefers themselves . . .

 

Schuyler

 


Subject: [STMFC] Swayback Reefers

 

The image link below is from the Seattle Municipal Archives and shows a string of reefers on Railroad Avenue. The date is July 19, 1917.

 

 Click on the link below and then click on the link below the image to see the TIF version and better details.

 

http://clerk.seattle.gov/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=railroad&S2=&S3=&l=100&Sect7=THUMBON&Sect6=HITOFF&Sect5=PHOT1&Sect4=AND&Sect3=PLURON&d=PHO2&p=12&u=%2F%7Epublic%2Fphot1.htm&r=1125&f=G

 

Notice the definite sway on the two truss rod reefers. Looks like these cars have seen better days. The remaining four reefers appear to have fishbelly side sills.

 

Seattle Municipal Archives: http://www.seattle.gov/cityarchives/

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Moving Freight Cars By Ferry

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

 


Bob, those are incredible images -- especially the incline
down to the car float! People really didn't know the meaning
of "impossible" in those days. :-)

Tim O'Connor

http://clerk.seattle.gov/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=railroad&S2=&S3=&l=100&Sect7=THUMBON&Sect6=HITOFF&Sect5=PHOT1&Sect4=AND&Sect3=PLURON&d=PHO2&p=12&u=%2F%7Epublic%2Fphot1.htm&r=1193&f=G


     Tim is right. Try operating a vertical curve like that on YOUR layout!

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"

charles slater
 

When I was switching them in the early 1970's SFRD cars were still just called RD's, and that is what was used on our switch lists. We also had RC's (SFRC) mechanicals and RB's (SFRB) for insulated boxes.

Charlie Slater

Bakersfield, Ca.




From: STMFC@... on behalf of Tom VanWormer robsmom@... [STMFC]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 2:46 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"
 
 

For the historians in the group, the ATSF was long called the "Atchison" in the TOC period and the SFRD was referred to as the "RD". as late as 1917
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

tyesac@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Could be, since I've also seen Santa Fe cars listed as "AT"   
 
Tom Casey
Could the RD have been used to distinguish the reefers from other Santa Fe cars which were often marked SF in conductor books and on switch lists?
 
Doug Harding
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Wed, Dec 30, 2015 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"

 
Could the RD have been used to distinguish the reefers from other Santa Fe cars which were often marked SF in conductor books and on switch lists?
 
Doug Harding
 


Re: Moving Freight Cars By Ferry

Tim O'Connor
 


Re: Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"

Tom Vanwormer
 

For the historians in the group, the ATSF was long called the "Atchison" in the TOC period and the SFRD was referred to as the "RD". as late as 1917
Tom VanWormer
Monument CO

tyesac@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Could be, since I've also seen Santa Fe cars listed as "AT"   
 
Tom Casey
Could the RD have been used to distinguish the reefers from other Santa Fe cars which were often marked SF in conductor books and on switch lists?
 
Doug Harding
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Douglas Harding' doug.harding@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Wed, Dec 30, 2015 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"

 
Could the RD have been used to distinguish the reefers from other Santa Fe cars which were often marked SF in conductor books and on switch lists?
 
Doug Harding
 


Re: Swayback Reefers

Charles Peck
 

We ought to keep in mind that belly sag on a truss rod car is not a permanently disabling condition.
Carmen can adjust to a slightly hogback condition when empty and the car will sag when heavy loaded.
There is some skill and a good ear to getting a good adjust and get each truss rod to sing the same
note when struck.  As the car ages and wood gets weak, the quicker the car sags. Refrigerator cars
especially because of near constant moisture that can lead to rot.  Wood cars were flexible and hard
to keep sealed against wet.
Chuck Peck in FL

On Wed, Dec 30, 2015 at 4:04 PM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 


The image link below is from the Seattle Municipal Archives and shows a string of reefers on Railroad Avenue. The date is July 19, 1917.


 Click on the link below and then click on the link below the image to see the TIF version and better details.

 

http://clerk.seattle.gov/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=railroad&S2=&S3=&l=100&Sect7=THUMBON&Sect6=HITOFF&Sect5=PHOT1&Sect4=AND&Sect3=PLURON&d=PHO2&p=12&u=%2F%7Epublic%2Fphot1.htm&r=1125&f=G

 

Notice the definite sway on the two truss rod reefers. Looks like these cars have seen better days. The remaining four reefers appear to have fishbelly side sills.

 

Seattle Municipal Archives: http://www.seattle.gov/cityarchives/

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



Moving Freight Cars By Ferry

thecitrusbelt@...
 

The image links below are from the Seattle Municipal Archives. They show cars being moved in support of construction on hydroelectric facilities in 1938 and 1939. The first image is from the Ross Dam construction in 1939.

 

Click on the links below and then click on the link below the images to see the TIF version and better details.

 

http://clerk.seattle.gov/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=railroad&S2=&S3=&l=100&Sect7=THUMBON&Sect6=HITOFF&Sect5=PHOT1&Sect4=AND&Sect3=PLURON&d=PHO2&p=12&u=%2F%7Epublic%2Fphot1.htm&r=1180&f=G

 

http://clerk.seattle.gov/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=railroad&S2=&S3=&l=100&Sect7=THUMBON&Sect6=HITOFF&Sect5=PHOT1&Sect4=AND&Sect3=PLURON&d=PHO2&p=12&u=%2F%7Epublic%2Fphot1.htm&r=1193&f=G

 

Notice the steep incline in the second image.

 

Seattle Municipal Archives: http://www.seattle.gov/cityarchives/

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

47661 - 47680 of 187320