Date   

Re: Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"

pennsylvania1954
 

Now I understand. Salt. Thanks, all!

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: Can anyone identify the road name for the car whose end we see prominently in this photo?

Eric Hansmann
 

From the appearance of the grab iron attachments on the left corner, this seems like a Dominion/Fowler car design. There is also a sill step on the left side of the car end. Is this a predecessor road to the Canadian National? The photo is dated March 1920.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

On Dec 31, 2015, at 5:39 PM, 'Claus Schlund HGM' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,


Can anyone identify the road name for the car whose end we see prominently in this photo? Reporting marks seem to end in RC, but
there might be one or more letters before that we cannot see.

http://clerk.seattle.gov/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=49351.NUM.&Sect6=HITOFF&Sect5=PHOT5&Sect4=AND&d=PHO2&l=1&p=1&u=/~public/phot1.htm&r=1&f=G

Claus Schlund



------------------------------------
Posted by: "Claus Schlund HGM" <claus@...>
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Yahoo Groups Links



Re: Ice refrigerators (Frozen Turkeys)

Rufus Cone
 

In the context of this discussion, the following articles on NHIX cars on the NP give further information about transport of frozen food in ice reefers.
David Lambert, MDT Metamorphosis NHIX, Railroad Model Craftsman, January & February 1990

Comments on NHIX by H Lansing Vail, Jr. - NYCS Historical Society, Railroad Model Craftsman, August-1990

-- 
Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT


Re: Ice refrigerators (Frozen Turkeys)

LOUIS WHITELEY <octoraro1@...>
 




On Dec 31, 2015, at 4:13 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

BDob Chaparro wrote:

 
The amount of salt required to achieve 32 degrees usually was 30 percent by weight compared to the ice. I'm sure this kind of extreme performance in the ice bunker cars required frequent reicing.

   Probably this is a typo by Bob. An equilibrium mixture of water and ice, no salt, is at 32 degrees (Fahrenheit). Salt additions lower that temperature. The minimum achievable (in the laboratory) with 23 percent salt is -6 degrees (the temperature of the water-salt eutectic, for the technically minded -- you can read about eutectics on Wikipedia). Use of more salt, for example 30 percent, is just insurance. I have read that it was difficult to get an ice reefer below 10 degrees in real life. And BTW, ice cars used for frozen loads were heavily insulated compared to ordinary ice reefers.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Can anyone identify the road name for the car whose end we see prominently in this photo?

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 

Hi List Members,


Can anyone identify the road name for the car whose end we see prominently in this photo? Reporting marks seem to end in RC, but there might be one or more letters before that we cannot see.

http://clerk.seattle.gov/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=49351.NUM.&Sect6=HITOFF&Sect5=PHOT5&Sect4=AND&d=PHO2&l=1&p=1&u=/~public/phot1.htm&r=1&f=G

Claus Schlund


Re: Testors Decal Printing Results

genegreen1942@...
 

I bought an ALPS 500 when they first came out, tested it once and then never used it.  Should I sell it?
Gene Green


Re: Ice refrigerators (Frozen Turkeys)

np328
 

One other thing I may add to this string, (even though the title remains Ice refrigerators)
  in a recent read of Railway Age, it notes that there were only 152 Mechanical reefers in service in 1952.

And so as I am modeling 1953, I see no need to ever purchase a model of one. 
        The phrase, rare as hen's teeth - comes readily to mind.                                Jim Dick - St. Paul


Re: Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"

railsnw@...
 

All,


The list that David Turner is referring to is from SP&S Chief Engineer File SPS 8171 which was the AFE for construction of icing facilities at Portland. The list is from October 15, 1945 to October 29, 1945. The list shows quite a few carloads of turkeys that originated in Portland, Albany, and Eugene, OR. Destination was New York City, Chicago, and Seattle. Besides the SFRD cars these were also loaded in MDT, URT, PFE, WFE, NWX, and NRC cars. Also at this same time was shipments of frozen fruit.


This file and many others are from the SP&S and it's subsidiaries and are in the SP&S Ry. Historical Society Archives.


Rich Wilkens


Re: Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"

ROGER HINMAN
 

 I have a stack of waybills somewhere I bought on ebay years ago and they’re all from a food chain in Boston for frozen turkeys coming from Spokane in the 50s. Some came in in highly insulated reefers, others came in normal RS cars of the period.


Roger Hinman




On Dec 31, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Steve Hoxie wrote:

 

Hi Jim--Thanks for replying. The list of cars reiced in Portland was from Oct 1945, at least 5 years before mechanical reefers began making a significant appearance. Loaded on a Rr-09 and a Rr-32 both with stage icing those turkeys wouldn't be frozen. Again, all the way to New York City? I know what happens to chicken left in my fridge for three days without cooking or freezing, and it isn't good.


   Steve, you assume that frozen food could not be shipped in ice reefers, which is not true. Addition of salt could reduce temperatures into the teens (Fahrenheit) and a mechanical reefer was not essential. I'm not saying that the turkey cargoes in question WERE frozen, but only that if they WERE frozen, they could be shipped in an ice car. Indeed frozen food was so shipped since the 1920s. Mechanical reefers were primarily important because they could attain lower temperatures than was possible with ice plus salt, such as zero Fahrenheit, essential for high-sugar things like frozen orange juice, rapidly growing in popularity after WW II.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







Re: Testors Decal Printing Results

mwbauers
 

I just grabbed them and I can feel barely any texture on the pages. It’s very, very slight and subtle.

Maybe its been improved in the newer models ???

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Dec 31, 2015, at 3:48 PM, BRIAN PAUL  wrote:

The ones I’ve seen are “thick”; you can feel the raised print when you run your fingers across the page. The technology uses wax “plugs” you feed into the machine.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: Mike Bauers...

What’s the reports on the suitability of the Xerox solid ink printers for decals???

I took them up on their offer of several sample printed pages, and the quality is a pure dream to behold.

I think that’s a no more than a $600 printer.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

> On Dec 31, 2015, at 2:04 PM, 'John Hagen' wrote:
> 
> 
> 1a 
> Garth,
> The Testors system works fine IF you need black lettering. Of course if the car you are lettering happens to be white, then …...


Re: Testors Decal Printing Results

 

The ones I’ve seen are “thick”; you can feel the raised print when you run your fingers across the page. The technology uses wax “plugs” you feed into the machine.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Thursday, December 31, 2015 at 3:37 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Testors Decal Printing Results







What’s the reports on the suitability of the Xerox solid ink printers for decals???

I took them up on their offer of several sample printed pages, and the quality is a pure dream to behold.

I think that’s a no more than a $600 printer.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Dec 31, 2015, at 2:04 PM, 'John Hagen' wrote:


1a
Garth,
The Testors system works fine IF you need black lettering. Of course if the car you are lettering happens to be white, then anything works. So if you are doing certain tank cars or covered hoppers ………
As you noted you can use white decal paper and print things like signs, logos or anything that has straight edges that may be cut out easily. But that would make lettering an impossible chore.
The only affordable, home user type printer that works for decals is the Alps, now long out of production and working units are disappearing. There is a company in Japan that can repair them but the cost is prohibitive ($1500.00 + including shipping – a big part of the cost) and way too much for my pockets, especially with the ink supply dwindling as that is also out of production now.
I keep watching and hoping that something will turn up but the truth is no one is going to build a printer for the purpose of decal printing; the market is just too small. Such a printer must be able to print white both as a color and as a base layer under colors for opaqueness and be able to print multiple layers of color without losing registration. The Alps can do this. Finicky, touchy and a steep learning curve that required one to deal with challenge and everlasting frustration but they do the job.
Maybe in 2016 ……..
John Hagen






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Testors Decal Printing Results

mwbauers
 

What’s the reports on the suitability of the Xerox solid ink printers for decals???

I took them up on their offer of several sample printed pages, and the quality is a pure dream to behold.

I think that’s a no more than a $600 printer.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Dec 31, 2015, at 2:04 PM, 'John Hagen' wrote:


1a
Garth,
The Testors system works fine IF you need black lettering. Of course if the car you are lettering happens to be white, then anything works. So if you are doing certain tank cars or covered hoppers ………
As you noted you can use white decal paper and print things like signs, logos or anything that has straight edges that may be cut out easily. But that would make lettering an impossible chore.
The only affordable, home user type printer that works for decals is the Alps, now long out of production and working units are disappearing. There is a company in Japan that can repair them but the cost is prohibitive ($1500.00 + including shipping – a big part of the cost) and way too much for my pockets, especially with the ink supply dwindling as that is also out of production now.
I keep watching and hoping that something will turn up but the truth is no one is going to build a printer for the purpose of decal printing; the market is just too small. Such a printer must be able to print white both as a color and as a base layer under colors for opaqueness and be able to print multiple layers of color without losing registration. The Alps can do this. Finicky, touchy and a steep learning curve that required one to deal with challenge and everlasting frustration but they do the job.
Maybe in 2016 ……..
John Hagen


Re: Testors Decal Printing Results

William Hirt
 

On 12/31/2015 2:04 PM, 'John Hagen' sprinthag@... [STMFC] wrote:
I keep watching and hoping that something will turn up but the truth is no one is going to build a printer for the purpose of decal printing; the market is just too small. Such a printer must be able to print white both as a color and as a base layer under colors for opaqueness and be able to print multiple layers of color without losing registration. The Alps can do this. Finicky, touchy and a steep learning curve that required one to deal with challenge and everlasting frustration but they do the job.

Okidata is now selling laser printers that print both in color and white. I know someone in the publishing business that has been closely looking at purchasing one for many purposes along doing decal type applications (including his model railroad friend's one off needs). When he started looking into it last summer, the low end model printer was $4000. I see now it has come down to $3400. The toner cartridges are over $200 a piece. Still way too much for a home purchase. Let's hope as with all technology the price continues to fall as they become more widespread in the marketplace.

Bill Hirt


Re: Ice refrigerators (Frozen Turkeys)

Tony Thompson
 

BDob Chaparro wrote:

 
The amount of salt required to achieve 32 degrees usually was 30 percent by weight compared to the ice. I'm sure this kind of extreme performance in the ice bunker cars required frequent reicing.

   Probably this is a typo by Bob. An equilibrium mixture of water and ice, no salt, is at 32 degrees (Fahrenheit). Salt additions lower that temperature. The minimum achievable (in the laboratory) with 23 percent salt is -6 degrees (the temperature of the water-salt eutectic, for the technically minded -- you can read about eutectics on Wikipedia). Use of more salt, for example 30 percent, is just insurance. I have read that it was difficult to get an ice reefer below 10 degrees in real life. And BTW, ice cars used for frozen loads were heavily insulated compared to ordinary ice reefers.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Ice refrigerators (Frozen Turkeys)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

The amount of salt required to achieve 32 degrees usually was 30 percent by weight compared to the ice. I'm sure this kind of extreme performance in the ice bunker cars required frequent reicing.


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Testors Decal Printing Results

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

Keep in mind that Kadee has an Alps printer and will print single sheets of decals…

 

Jack Burgess


Re: Ice refrigerators lettered "RD"

Charles Peck
 

Steve, Salt is your answer.  Frozen turkeys can be kept frozen with ice and salt.  
Zero degrees is possible with ice and salt but for practical usage, holding around
20 degrees F. would be reasonable shipping of frozen turkeys from anyplace USA
to anyplace USA. 

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 11:47 AM, stevehprr@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Hi Jim--Thanks for replying. The list of cars reiced in Portland was from Oct 1945, at least 5 years before mechanical reefers began making a significant appearance. Loaded on a Rr-09 and a Rr-32 both with stage icing those turkeys wouldn't be frozen. Again, all the way to New York City? I know what happens to chicken left in my fridge for three days without cooking or freezing, and it isn't good.

Just trying to figure out what these IM and C&BT cars should be  carrying..........

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL



Re: Linde Box/Tank Cars - Ammonia?

Brian Carlson
 

RPC 14 covers these cars in detail. It's still available on there site. Rpcycpub.com

Brian J. Carlson

On Dec 31, 2015, at 2:53 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 


I don't think ammonia was a Linde product -- they concentrated on pure
gases as Tony says -- argon, oxygen, nitrogen... Ammonia is manufactured.

Tim O'Connor


I am wondering what was carried in the well known tank-in-a-boxcar operated by the Linde company.  Liquid oxygen and "other chemicals" have been mentioned on some web sites.  Might ammonia have been shipped to ice makers in such cars? 

   Liquid nitrogen shipments were extensive too.

Tony Thompson 


Re: Photo-etched parts

 

Mark – In the January 1982 issue of RMC I illustrate photo etching which may be more detailed than the Micro-Mark instructions. – Al Westerfield
 

Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Photo-etched parts
 
 

Mark,

 

You obviously missed my clinic at Cocoa Beach last year, which was on using this system to photo etch at home :)

 

Bottom line is that it works well if you are careful and treat the chemicals with the respect that they are due.  It is only useful for making smaller sheets (3" x 5" is about the maximum and smaller than that is better). 

 

Pretty much everything in the kit is needed, although as noted the quality of things like the apron and gloves are not great and so I used my own.

 

SAFETY FIRST!  If you get this kit, please, please read all of the instructions and treat the etchant and other solutions with a great deal of respect.

 

Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... on behalf of feddersenmark@... [STMFC]
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2015 10:55 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Photo-etched parts
 


Does anyone have any experience with the Micro-Mark Pro-Etch System? Does it work to satisfaction? Is it over-priced? Are there better systems? Are they selling you a bunch of extra crap you don't need? Any advise is welcomed. Thanks.  Mark Feddersen  Denver, Iowa





Re: Testors Decal Printing Results

John Hagen <sprinthag@...>
 

1a

Garth,

The Testors system works fine IF you need black lettering. Of course if the car you are lettering happens to be white, then anything works. So if you are doing certain tank cars or covered hoppers ………

As you noted you can use white decal paper and print things like signs, logos or anything that has straight edges that may be cut out easily. But that would make lettering an impossible chore.

The only affordable, home user type printer that works for decals is the Alps, now long out of production and working units are disappearing. There is a company in Japan that can repair them but the cost is prohibitive ($1500.00 + including shipping – a big part of the cost) and way too much for my pockets, especially with the ink supply dwindling as that is also out of production now.

I keep watching and hoping that something will turn up but the truth is no one is going to build a printer for the purpose of decal printing; the market is just too small. Such a printer must be able to print white both as a color and as a base layer under colors for opaqueness and be able to print multiple layers of color without losing registration. The Alps can do this. Finicky, touchy and a steep learning curve that required one to deal with challenge and everlasting frustration but they do the job.

Maybe in 2016 ……..

John Hagen

 

Friends,

I finally got around to applying the decals I made using the Testors
paper with my Epson Claria Photo 1400 printer. John's warning was
absolutely right. The inks did not have enough opacity, and the
lettering disappeared when I applied the decals to the car sides. Poop!
These were done with colors approximating the orange-yellow used by the
WP in the 1950s, and some in a light silver-gray, applied over boxcar
red paint. I still have a sheet printed in black for the Detroit &
Mackinac boxcar and for some Sacramento Belt Line RBLs with yellow
sides, but I haven't built these cars yet. I suspect the black inks may
work better. Maybe someone with a different brand of printer will get
better results.

OTOH, the inks did not soften during the soaking process. I made sure
the sheets had a double coating of the sealant, laid on and laid off.
The decals soaked right off the paper and were easy to transfer to the
car side. The product does work as advertised. The guy at the hobby
store is also experimenting with the Testors decal sheets, and he claims
any sprayed sealant will work.

I was using the sheets with a clear backing. Testors also offers sheets
with a white background. This isn't going to work for freight car
lettering, but certainly has applications for building signs.

More on this later.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff


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