Date   

Re: Representing paint failure

armprem
 

Unfortunately some of the efforts to show paint failure that I have seen looked more like Pidgeon poop.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 12:59 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Representing paint failure


Hi,

David Bott has brought up something that is important. Perhaps
even -very- important ...

I know several model railroaders who compliment the weathered
freight car models they see - and say stuff like "Gee, I wish -I- could
do that kind of weathering." ... and their trains are unweathered and
have been unweathered for years. And when asked when they are
going to weather their own trains they always answer with "when I
know how to do it".

David is saying "guys are 'intimidated' by the completed/finished
work of others" and I agree! Learning to weather is a 'process'.
We need to encourage others to -start- the process. Some of the
ways we can do that are to sit down with some friends and some
models and some paints and actually -do- some weathering ... and
then to put the brushes into their hands for them to experiment on
their models ===> right then and there.

One of the key elements of weathering is "observing the prototype" -
but it isn't the only one.

Lastly - a constant irritation of mine is guys who learn "just one
way" (or thing to do) and then do that same thing over and over
again ===> with very little variation from car to car (or year to year).
I like to describe 'successful' weathering using the following words:

A layout yard full of cars that "look all the same" ... UNTIL you
study the individual cars in the yard and then you start to
see the differences between the cars. And the more you study
the more differences you see.

One of my "go to"/"go back to" techniques that I have found is
important in that "all the same and all different at the same time"
result is using considerable amounts of weathering by hand. I'm
not saying I don't also use an airbrush ... I'm saying that if you
haven't done some of the weathering using a brush you hold in
your hand that you won't achieve the same results.

Example - look at the Delano picture recently posted - notice how
the "paint failure" is different from car to car! Reflect also on how
quickly you picked up on the big picture "this is a steam era yard".

I've seen layout yards that look like that pic - and it was no
accident! Thanks David for pointing out one of the reasons
why many guys never seem to get started on "weathering".
- Jim B.

6b. Re: Representing paint failure Posted by: "David Bott" dbott@...
lwulffe_doc Date: Mon Jan 4, 2016 5:54 pm ((PST))
Having watched a recent weathering mini clinic on Train Master TV, my
theory (not experience) is that the modelers are not
satisfied because the peeling paint models lack the feathering
transitions and layers of obscuring grime that most
prototypes exhibit.
I bet if the undercoat paint had a very dilute addition of the body
color or there was another technique to use a series of
dilute washes over the paint used to create the bare metal, like Michael
Gross only more, they would like the results even
more. Great blog entry because it shows that even accomplished modelers
have things to learn!
As I strongly believe, if you aren't making mistakes, you are not
learning!
I get tired of MR photos because they tend to show the final iteration
of the strength of an accomplished modeler.
People don't identify with perfection. Blogs and videos have begun to
show the experimentation and failures that
precede virtually every beautiful model. That flavor of trial and error
will inspire more modelers than any museum
quality model shown complete.
Bob Ross became famous for showing his mistakes and how he recovered
to create "happy little accidents." I'm
glad to see entries like this! They show me I have room to contribute
something...now to get my weathering
gear out and show you what I mean! Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone


------------------------------------

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------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links





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Re: Representing paint failure

Benjamin Hom
 


Jim Betz wrote:
"This is a Shorpy image taken by Jack Delano."

It's not a "Shorpy image".  Shorpy doesn't own anything.  The Delano images are part of the Farm Security Administration/Office of War Information Collection of the Library of Congress.

Folks would be better served to go through the LoC collection themselves instead of waiting for Shorpy to spoon feed the images to you.


Ben Hom


Re: Representing paint failure

Eric Hansmann
 

Oops. I pulled the wrong date off of the LoC page. I'll change the reference year to 1943 as soon as I can. 

Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

On Jan 5, 2016, at 11:44 AM, jimbetz@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Hi,

  In case any one is wondering ... this picture was taken at the Milwaukee 
Galewood (Chicago) yard in 1943.  Interesting mix of new an old cars in this
picture - from wood cars with above car top brake wheels and wood roof 
walks to steel cars with steel roof walks.  A few years earlier - or later - and
this mix would not be seen!
  This is a Shorpy image taken by Jack Delano.
                                                                                             - Jim Betz  


Re: Representing paint failure

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

  In case any one is wondering ... this picture was taken at the Milwaukee 
Galewood (Chicago) yard in 1943.  Interesting mix of new an old cars in this
picture - from wood cars with above car top brake wheels and wood roof 
walks to steel cars with steel roof walks.  A few years earlier - or later - and
this mix would not be seen!
  This is a Shorpy image taken by Jack Delano.
                                                                                             - Jim Betz  


Re: Representing paint failure

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

David Bott has brought up something that is important. Perhaps
even -very- important ...

I know several model railroaders who compliment the weathered
freight car models they see - and say stuff like "Gee, I wish -I- could
do that kind of weathering." ... and their trains are unweathered and
have been unweathered for years. And when asked when they are
going to weather their own trains they always answer with "when I
know how to do it".

David is saying "guys are 'intimidated' by the completed/finished
work of others" and I agree! Learning to weather is a 'process'.
We need to encourage others to -start- the process. Some of the
ways we can do that are to sit down with some friends and some
models and some paints and actually -do- some weathering ... and
then to put the brushes into their hands for them to experiment on
their models ===> right then and there.

One of the key elements of weathering is "observing the prototype" -
but it isn't the only one.

Lastly - a constant irritation of mine is guys who learn "just one
way" (or thing to do) and then do that same thing over and over
again ===> with very little variation from car to car (or year to year).
I like to describe 'successful' weathering using the following words:

A layout yard full of cars that "look all the same" ... UNTIL you
study the individual cars in the yard and then you start to
see the differences between the cars. And the more you study
the more differences you see.

One of my "go to"/"go back to" techniques that I have found is
important in that "all the same and all different at the same time"
result is using considerable amounts of weathering by hand. I'm
not saying I don't also use an airbrush ... I'm saying that if you
haven't done some of the weathering using a brush you hold in
your hand that you won't achieve the same results.

Example - look at the Delano picture recently posted - notice how
the "paint failure" is different from car to car! Reflect also on how
quickly you picked up on the big picture "this is a steam era yard".

I've seen layout yards that look like that pic - and it was no
accident! Thanks David for pointing out one of the reasons
why many guys never seem to get started on "weathering".
- Jim B.

6b. Re: Representing paint failure Posted by: "David Bott" dbott@... lwulffe_doc Date: Mon Jan 4, 2016 5:54 pm ((PST))
Having watched a recent weathering mini clinic on Train Master TV, my theory (not experience) is that the modelers are not
satisfied because the peeling paint models lack the feathering transitions and layers of obscuring grime that most
prototypes exhibit.
I bet if the undercoat paint had a very dilute addition of the body color or there was another technique to use a series of
dilute washes over the paint used to create the bare metal, like Michael Gross only more, they would like the results even
more. Great blog entry because it shows that even accomplished modelers have things to learn!
As I strongly believe, if you aren't making mistakes, you are not learning!
I get tired of MR photos because they tend to show the final iteration of the strength of an accomplished modeler.
People don't identify with perfection. Blogs and videos have begun to show the experimentation and failures that
precede virtually every beautiful model. That flavor of trial and error will inspire more modelers than any museum
quality model shown complete.
Bob Ross became famous for showing his mistakes and how he recovered to create "happy little accidents." I'm
glad to see entries like this! They show me I have room to contribute something...now to get my weathering
gear out and show you what I mean! Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone


Speedwitch K112.1 B&LE boxcar

 

I have for sale one Speedwitch K112.1 B&LERR 1937-AAR boxcar kit.  Only problem is that I don't remember what I paid for it at West Springfield a few years ago.  Kit is unbuilt and complete.  I will sell it for its original cost plus postage to a US address.  Hugh T. Guillaume


Re: What Kind Of Car End Is This?

Eric Hansmann
 

I've seen frequent reference to these ends as T-section, mainly in Westerfield instructions for these Southern SU box cars. 

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

On Jan 4, 2016, at 7:15 PM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Here is another boxcar photo from the Castle Graphics website:

 

http://transport.castlegraphics.com/displayimage.php?album=96&pid=4065#top_d

 

My question is what kind of car end is this?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: What Kind Of Car End Is This?

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 1/4/2016 6:15 PM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] wrote:
My question is what kind of car end is this?

    Something is missing, image won't load?

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


What Kind Of Car End Is This?

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Here is another boxcar photo from the Castle Graphics website:

 

http://transport.castlegraphics.com/displayimage.php?album=96&pid=4065#top_d

 

My question is what kind of car end is this?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Representing paint failure

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Having watched a recent weathering mini clinic on Train Master TV, my theory (not experience) is that the modelers are not satisfied because the peeling paint models lack the feathering transitions and layers of obscuring grime that most prototypes exhibit.

I bet if the undercoat paint had a very dilute addition of the body color or there was another technique to use a series of dilute washes over the paint used to create the bare metal, like Michael Gross only more, they would like the results even more.

Great blog entry because it shows that even accomplished modelers have things to learn!

As I strongly believe, if you aren't making mistakes, you are not learning! I get tired of MR photos because they tend to show the final iteration of the strength of an accomplished modeler. People don't identify with perfection. Blogs and videos have begun to show the experimentation and failures that precede virtually every beautiful model. That flavor of trial and error will inspire more modelers than any museum quality model shown complete. Bob Ross became famous for showing his mistakes and how he recovered to create "happy little accidents."

I'm glad to see entries like this! They show me I have room to contribute something...now to get my weathering gear out and show you what I mean!

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Jan 4, 2016, at 5:57 PM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Techniques to represent paint failure on box car roofs are featured on the Resin Car Works blog. These examples complement the Steam Era Freight Car list discussions from a couple of weeks ago. Visit the RCW blog for more details.

 

http://blog.resincarworks.com/paint-failure/

 

Eric Hansmann

RCW web guy


Representing paint failure

Eric Hansmann
 

Techniques to represent paint failure on box car roofs are featured on the Resin Car Works blog. These examples complement the Steam Era Freight Car list discussions from a couple of weeks ago. Visit the RCW blog for more details.

 

http://blog.resincarworks.com/paint-failure/

 

Eric Hansmann

RCW web guy


Re: FGE reefer 4-16-1948

Dennis Storzek
 

Not in the 1/58 ORER either... which begs the question, who is in error, Henderson, or the ORER?

Dennis Storzek


Re: FGE reefer 4-16-1948

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim,

There is a photo of a WIF reefer on page 50 of John Henderson's CLASSIC FREIGHT CARS, VOLUME 3: 40 FT REFRIGERATOR CARS. The car is WIF 724, and it certainly appears to be an ex-FGE refrigerator. It's reweigh symbol is JAX  12-55 (Jacksonville, Florida). According to the text, the car was photographed by K.B. King at West Point, Texas, in June 1958. It goes on to say that the car was rebuilt by the FGE in 1955. Maybe on that one. Certainly reweighed by them.

I have an October 1959 ORER, and there are no refrigerator cars listed for the WIF, so it must have been sold/retired shortly after this photo was taken.

Back when Accurail first offered their wooden refrigerator, this very car was in their line. I still have one, slightly upgraded, with wire grabs. Maybe Dennis can tell you more, though I would not be surprised if his company used the same photo for their data (otherwise, the same number is a very big coincidence).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 1/4/16 10:50 AM, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:
 




---In STMFC@..., wrote :
"I am familiar with the WIF car. I think there was only one car. I am pretty it was a rebuild of the FGE car. Bill Welch"

It's not listed at all in 1959. Anyone have a 1957 or 1958 ORER?

Tim O'
===========


No single car lots listed for WIF in 1/58 ORER

Dennis Storzek



SAVE THE DATE: 2016 RPM Conference - Naperville/Lisle

skibbs4
 

I'm pleased to announce that we are under contract with the Sheraton Hotel in Lisle for the 2016 RPM Conference.  Please save the date in your calendars for October 20-22, 2016!

I will be working on the new website and registration details throughout January, and hope to have everything live toward the end of the month.  In the meantime, I wanted to push out the dates of the event to help plan vacation time as we roll into the new year.

Please watch www.RPMconference.com for more details. We have several exciting things in the works.   

But more importantly, have safe travels and fun in Cocoa Beach!

Thanks,
Mike Skibbe


Re: FGE reefer 4-16-1948

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <timboconnor@...> wrote :
"I am familiar with the WIF car. I think there was only one car. I am pretty it was a rebuild of the FGE car. Bill Welch"

It's not listed at all in 1959. Anyone have a 1957 or 1958 ORER?

Tim O'
===========


No single car lots listed for WIF in 1/58 ORER

Dennis Storzek


Re: What Kind Of Load Is This?

ed_mines
 

It might be a heat exchanger.


Ed Mines


Prototype Railroad Profiles No. 3

Ted Culotta
 

The third in the Prototype Railroad Profiles series is posted. This volume focuses on the NP's 21500/39500 double sheathed truss rod box cars. The link can be reached via speedwitchmedia.com

I'll see many of you later this week. Safe travels.

Cheers,
Ted Culotta


Re: Sunshine Santa Fe Reefer kit for sale.

rob.mclear3@...
 

Sold to Scott Haycock

Rob McLear.


Sunshine Santa Fe Reefer kit for sale.

rob.mclear3@...
 

Hello


I have a Sunshine Kit of 43.2 which is the Rr-49-53 Santa Fe Plug Door Reefer kit.   I am offering this for sale as it does not fit my time period for modelling.   Asking $50 plus shipping from Australia.


Regards

Rob McLear

Kingaroy Australia.



Another on-line model RR magazine

Andy Carlson
 

Well, an even less relevant on-line RR model magazine than the MRH. So much potential, yet so much fluff. Maybe I am spoiled from the first decades of Mainline Modeler and Robert Schleicher's tenured Model Railroading mags. Thanks for the historical societies and the Yahoo forums to help fill the void.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




From: "fgexbill@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2016 5:26 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Basket Factories

 
Arguably an often overlooked industry is a crate and/or basket factory for the manufacture of the containers used to ship fresh produce. These kinds of factories often sprung up in the growing areas. Recently a friend sent me a link to an online modeling magazine that is new to me with a very well illustrated article on the Houston-White Mill & Basket Co. in Millsboro, Delaware: ALL SCALE RAILS - Home Page
 I have not had a chance to read the article but thought people on this list would like to see it.

Bill Welch


53821 - 53840 of 193584