Date   
Re: adhering to wood

Dave Parker
 

Ed:

It's early days, but I am experimenting with polyurethane adhesives in similar situations.  Common examples are Liquid Nails and Gorilla Glue.  You can get Gorilla "Minis" -- a 4-pack of 12-g tubes for $4.75 at Amazon.  Avoids problems with the glue drying out between projects.  Based more on woodworking and home improvement projects, these are the most versatile adhesives that I have tried.  Hoping they fill a similar role in my modeling efforts.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 8:30 AM, "Pierre Oliver pierre.oliver@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Ed,
I just bought a tin of Minwax sanding sealer at Home Depot for sealing wood. Works the way I want it to.
I'm a big fan of Weldbond for wood joints, and Pliobond for dissimilar material bonds. Canopy glue is also part of the arsenal these days
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 12/01/2016 11:26 AM, ed_mines@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
Am still building wood models.

Super glue does not work very well on wood. I'm still using Ambroid cement which apparently has been discontinued. Duco cement is  similar and available for a premium price.

The wood in qualitycraft kits is brittle and easily cracks but their metal castings are still fantastic. I've seen other castings deform over time.

Can anyone suggest a good wood sealer?

That AMB caboose looks great but I'll have to wait until spring to finish it. It has to be painted before the glazing goes in.

ed mines 



Re: adhering to wood

Jim Williams <wwww5960@...>
 

I use "Tacky Cement" for wood to wood bonds and "Aleene's Tacky Glue"  for wood to anything else....works well for me......Jim W.


On Tuesday, January 12, 2016 8:30 AM, "Pierre Oliver pierre.oliver@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Ed,
I just bought a tin of Minwax sanding sealer at Home Depot for sealing wood. Works the way I want it to.
I'm a big fan of Weldbond for wood joints, and Pliobond for dissimilar material bonds. Canopy glue is also part of the arsenal these days
Pierre Oliver
http://www.elgincarshops.com/
http://www.yarmouthmodelworks.com/
On 12/01/2016 11:26 AM, ed_mines@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
Am still building wood models.

Super glue does not work very well on wood. I'm still using Ambroid cement which apparently has been discontinued. Duco cement is  similar and available for a premium price.

The wood in qualitycraft kits is brittle and easily cracks but their metal castings are still fantastic. I've seen other castings deform over time.

Can anyone suggest a good wood sealer?

That AMB caboose looks great but I'll have to wait until spring to finish it. It has to be painted before the glazing goes in.

ed mines 



Re: Santa Fe reefers in Boston

Benjamin Hom
 

Brian Chapman asked:
"So, while PFE and SFRD were free-roaming throughout the nation, the regional reefers were not part of a national pool? Was there such a pool?"

"National pool" is a misnomer as the reefer fleets were privately managed; i.e., a PFE car would not be loaded by a Santa Fe customer.  The one big exception is during WWII, when such restrictions were eliminated and the cars were operated in a national pool.


"Besides the former, were there other reefer consortiums whose cars roamed far and wide?"

The "Our Companies" consortium, which consisted of FGEX, WFEX (NOT "WFGE"), BREX, and NX.  See the link for more information.


Ben Hom

Re: adhering to wood

Pierre Oliver
 

Ed,
I just bought a tin of Minwax sanding sealer at Home Depot for sealing wood. Works the way I want it to.
I'm a big fan of Weldbond for wood joints, and Pliobond for dissimilar material bonds. Canopy glue is also part of the arsenal these days
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 12/01/2016 11:26 AM, ed_mines@... [STMFC] wrote:

 

Am still building wood models.


Super glue does not work very well on wood. I'm still using Ambroid cement which apparently has been discontinued. Duco cement is  similar and available for a premium price.


The wood in qualitycraft kits is brittle and easily cracks but their metal castings are still fantastic. I've seen other castings deform over time.


Can anyone suggest a good wood sealer?


That AMB caboose looks great but I'll have to wait until spring to finish it. It has to be painted before the glazing goes in.


ed mines 


adhering to wood

ed_mines
 

Am still building wood models.


Super glue does not work very well on wood. I'm still using Ambroid cement which apparently has been discontinued. Duco cement is  similar and available for a premium price.


The wood in qualitycraft kits is brittle and easily cracks but their metal castings are still fantastic. I've seen other castings deform over time.


Can anyone suggest a good wood sealer?


That AMB caboose looks great but I'll have to wait until spring to finish it. It has to be painted before the glazing goes in.


ed mines 

Re: Santa Fe reefers in Boston

grangerroads@...
 

Doug,
 
So, while PFE and SFRD were free-roaming throughout the nation, the regional reefers were not part of a national pool? Was there such a pool? Besides the former, were there other reefer consortiums whose cars roamed far and wide?

WFGE? Couldn't find a reference to this mark.

Thanks much,

Brian Chapman
Cedar Rapids, Iowa

Re: Cocoa Beach

Bruce Smith
 

John,

It was, as usual, a great meet!  The weather was wet and foggy much of the time, but temps were in the 70’s.  We got off to a great start when every train on the list ran at Mike Brock’s operating session on Thursday ;)  I believe records were set both for registrations and hotel nights.  With six tracks going for the whole event, there was definitely something for everyone.  F&C had their new C&O cars, a welded 3 bay hopper and the ex-Hocking Valley panel sided 3 bay hopper.  BLI had the test shot of the PRR S2 turbine and a demo of their “Rolling Thunder” sound system.  I’m not sure what else was “new”, but both Atlas and Intermountain were there as well.  As always there were great models in the ballroom, although I think the numbers may have been down a bit from previous years (although I did not count).

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jan 12, 2016, at 1:06 AM, STMFC@... wrote:


Hi Guys,

How was the Bash at the Beach?  Your fellow modelers in the cold, dreary climates are anxiously waiting for great stories!

John  

John Golden
Albersbach, DE



Re: lead shot for car weighting

Douglas Harding
 

Ed I mentioned BBs because they had been mentioned in the thread and are easily obtainable. They were the common weight used by many years ago, I still have a package of BBs in my modeling stash. Eliminate them from the equation if you don’t wish to use them.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

Cocoa Beach

golden1014
 

Hi Guys,

How was the Bash at the Beach?  Your fellow modelers in the cold, dreary climates are anxiously waiting for great stories!

John  

John Golden
Albersbach, DE

Re: lead shot for car weighting

spsalso
 

Doug,


In the lesson, why would you use BBs?  They're steel.



Ed


Edward Sutorik

Re: lead shot for car weighting

Douglas Harding
 

All this talk about sphere size, density and actual size of BBs reminds me of an old physics experiment that has to do with filling a given space.

The teacher places a container on the table and box of rocks. He pours the rocks into the container to the top and asks the class if I it is full. The class says yes.

The teacher then takes a box of pebbles and proceeds to pour them over the rocks in the same container, and then asks the class if the container is full. Of course they say yes.

The teacher then takes a box of sand and pours the sand into the same container that has already been filled twice, once with rocks and again with rocks and pebbles. He asks the class if the container is full and they say yes.

The teacher asks again and the class confirms the container is full it cannot hold any more, where upon the teacher takes a glass of water and pours it into the container until the water reaches the top.

So let’s review: rocks followed by pebbles, followed by sand, followed by water. Each time the container is filled even thought it was thought to be full.

 

The lesson, start with BBs, then pour in lead shot, followed by tungsten dust. The fill the voids with liquid, ie glue.

 

Or do what I do, purchase a box of stick on weights from the local tire dealer. They come in both ¼ and ½ oz sizes and are easy to cut into even smaller size. Far cheaper.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

Calling Andy Harmon

Bill Welch
 

Andy I am hoping you will please send me some of the photos you were making at the airbrushing event. You can contact me at: fgexbill()at)tampabay.rr.com


Thank you!

Bill Welch

Re: Santa Fe reefers in Boston

Schuyler Larrabee
 

The original question, Roger, was simply if SFRD reefers ever made it to Boston. The answer is unequivocally yes.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 6:01 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Santa Fe reefers in Boston





Nice photos but neither looks like B&M terminal division.; the second is definitely Beacon Park yard of the Boston & Albany.

On Jan 10, 2016, at 8:08 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:





Jack Dziadul wrote:

"The photos did not show Santa Fe reefers, just boxcars; at least my eyes could not find them. But, the photo technology was quite impressive. Being able to click on any freight car and get details on that isolated piece of rolling stock is remarkable."



Go back and look again - there aren't many, but they're there. There's one obvious SFRD reefer behind the PRR Class X29 boxcar in the top center of this photo:

http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/shot%20of%20mo/shotofmomar02_2.html



There's one near the shanty in the upper left of this photo coupled to two single-sheathed boxcars.

http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/gallery/shot%20of%20mo/feb02/shotofmofeb02.html





Ben Hom

Re: lead shot for car weighting

Dave Parker
 

Jim and others:

If you read my earlier message carefully, I think that's pretty much what I said.  As long as the BBs are small enough to achieve something close to the idealized packing geometry, you will have added as much weight as you are going to.  Unless the space is very small, going from #9 to #12 shot won't gain you anything.  You'll still be at about 74% of the density of the pure metal (at best).

Regarding the tungsten powder link that Mike Skibbe posted, it seems that the "best" products are a MIX of different particle sizes that, predictably, allow for slightly higher densities.  But the one that seems to be readily available retail only touts a final density of 15 g/cm3, only about 78% that of pure tungsten.  That's the one that is $75 a pound; a bit rich for our purposes perhaps.

Also note that the tungsten shot used in shotgun shells is not pure, but rather a tungsten-steel-nickel alloy.  The densest of these (Hevi Shot) is only about 12 g/cm3, versus lead at 11.1.  The Hevi Shot seems to retail at about $39/lb, which also seems pretty steep given the nominal improvement over lead.

I don't worry about the toxicity of lead.  I keep it out of my mouth (and the cat's).  Its toxicity due to dermal exposure is very low.  Overall, it's much more of a problem in children ages 6 and under whose brains are still developing; ours are all heading in the other direction.  YMMV of course.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA




Re: lead shot for car weighting (Tungsten)

frograbbit602
 

Jon Miller said, "Cerro metals have a low melting point so with care you can pour into plastic."
I followed Cerro bend instructions,melting in water, etc. After pouring very slowly into a open center sill of a plastic gondola I soon had the Cerro bend melt holes in the gondola floor. I keep the ruined gondola around to remind me never to attempt the process again.
Lester Breuer

Re: lead shot for car weighting

Jim Betz
 

Hi,

There is one aspect to the size of the shot you are using that
hasn't been mentioned - and that is that the smaller the size
the more likely you are to be able to "fill" the space with a
maximum amount of individual BBs. So smaller - when we
are talking about something like the space between the
frame members on a freight car ... wait for it ... WILL get
more weight. Exaggerated case in point - if the BBs are not
able to fit beside each other they won't 'fit' the space as
well. You end up 'wasting' more space if the BBs are larger.
Smaller BBs also fill in around where brake and other under
car details are attached.

Someone gave a link to MidwayUSA - they have both 5 and
10 pound quantities ... and I even saw 10 pounds of #12 shot
(very tiny) for about $4/pound. I do not know if that price
including shipping or not.

I like using lead shot for car weight - I hold it in place using
Krystal Klear (essentially white glue) - and if I need to (rarely)
I can put some water on it and let it set and it will let go. But
in over a decade I have never had any of the glue let go
without applying water (humidity isn't enough to even soften
it). KK is also nice because it 'flows' around the lead - I put
in a layer of lead and then add KK on top and let it dry ...
repeat as necessary for multiple layers. And KK can be
painted without affecting it ... if you really want to 'hide'
the fact that you added some weight.
I have also used shot and KK to add weight to brass
steam - one of my tricks for that combo is to glue some
to the underside of the cab roof ... in order to balance
the steamer over the center of the drivers (actually just
ahead of center and -never- behind). Many brass steamers
that have derailing problems are easily fixed by getting them
balanced.

My personal standard for car weight is "NMRA RP -plus- 1 oz"
per car. That extra ounce translates to added tracking and the
extra doesn't seem to seriously affect train length. YMMV.
- Jim

Re: lead shot for car weighting (Tungsten)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Interesting but not “apples to apples”.

 

The website says, “It is a common misconception to assume that by simply mixing commercially available tungsten powder with a polymer (epoxy or polyurethane), one could obtain a high-density substitute to lead in weight-required applications.”

 

My comparison is lead shot, with the large voids between the shot filled with light weight glue, against a slurry made from fine tungsten powder. Otherwise, those golf clubs would be filled with cheap lead shot or powder.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

Re: Santa Fe reefers in Boston

ROGER HINMAN <rhinman11@...>
 

Nice photos but neither looks like B&M terminal division.; the second is definitely Beacon Park yard of the Boston & Albany.

On Jan 10, 2016, at 8:08 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Jack Dziadul wrote:
"The photos did not show Santa Fe reefers, just boxcars; at least my eyes could not find them.  But, the photo technology was quite impressive. Being able to click on any freight car and get details on that isolated piece of rolling stock is remarkable."

Go back and look again - there aren't many, but they're there.  There's one obvious SFRD reefer behind the PRR Class X29 boxcar in the top center of this photo:
There's one near the shanty in the upper left of this photo coupled to two single-sheathed boxcars.

Ben Hom


Re: lead shot for car weighting (Tungsten)

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <Edwardsutorik@...> wrote :


There have been claims of some sellers (Amazon, for one, I think) that their "tungsten" is not nearly as dense as tungsten.  If you get my point.

===========

They may be incorrectly referring to tungsten carbide, as used in cutting tools, instead of pure tungsten. From Wikipedia:

"Colloquially among workers in various industries (such as machining and carpentry), tungsten carbide is often simply called carbide, despite the inaccuracy of the usage. Among the lay public, the growing popularity of tungsten carbide rings has also led to consumers calling the material just tungsten."

Tungsten carbide has a density around 15, better than lead, but not as heavy as pure tungsten.

Dennis

Re: lead shot for car weighting (Tungsten)

skibbs4
 


This link is an interesting read regarding tungsten powder in binding agents. Basically it is less dense than lead, and more expensive. 

If you're worried about the toxicity of lead, it may be a workable substitute. But it won't gain you any extra heft over lead. Now, pure or machinable tungsten will be heavier...

Mike Skibbe



On Jan 11, 2016, at 12:27 AM, thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Tungsten also is available as a fine powder, and when mixed with a little lightly-thinned white glue, can be fit into just about any space. Tungsten powder is commonly used to add weight to golf clubs and can be purchased from some golf supply stores. It’s not cheap, however.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA