I agree with Dick Harley. I would like someplace where there is only serious
discussion of freight cars, and not a lot of chit-chat, and no declarations of one's
preference for the "three foot rule" etc. Limiting it to pre-1960 freight cars is not
entirely my preference but if that's how you all feel... People like myself and Bill
Kelly and Jim Eager are seriously interested in post-1960 freight cars too, and at
the moment there is no mailing list other than FCL for that.

An egroups moderator has the power to approve or eject subscribers. I have
occasionally reminded steamloco members not to stray from the subject of the
mailing list, and I haven't noticed any serious violations. Although the recent
flareup of discussions of styrene and plastics is kinda pushing the envelope...

P.S. Dick, thanks for posting the Union Pacific drawings file. I think that type
of information will make the STMFC a useful resource. Dick's "three useful
messages a week" sounds like a worthy goal.

P.P.S. How do people feel about binaries attached to messages? Sometimes
it would be just so much easier to SHOW people what you're talking about
rather than try to describe it.

On Dec 12, 3:27pm, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: So why are we doing this?

3. I'm tired of the same old topics being discussed at length every few
months, often with more heat than light, prompted by new subscribers who
weren't around when they were discussed before (and haven't consulted

the

digest to find that out).

This, in my opinion, is one of the great weaknesses of Mr. Hosker's list.
The last time I tried to search the archives, well, I couldn't. Suppose
I want to know how to tell a correct RC R-30-12-9 from the incorrect
version.
I have no intention of performing 48 different searches for "Red Caboose
PFE" (one for each month in the archive).

Thus, if I wanted to know, I'd have to ask again. (Actually, I keep my
own personal archive of messages that I think will be of future interest.
But I shouldn't have to.)

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

While we're still off topic, you may also find http://www.bibliofind.com/
to be helpful. Note that neither Advanced Book Exchange (ABE) nor
Bibliofind are actual booksellers. Instead they contain listings from
many smaller book dealers. As a result, each web site might find the same
book.

Other search sites:

http://www.bookfinder.com/
http://www.ippi.com/antiquarian-archive.html
http://www.alibris.com/home.cfm


Best of luck!

-Jeff


On Dec 12, 6:37pm, MDelvec952@aol.com wrote:

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Used book sites
In a message dated 12/12/00 6:11:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rhendrickson@opendoor.com writes:

I tried http://www.abebooks.com/ and found two copies, and some

>other interesting stuff.

I tried that website and it wouldn't come up. ???

Try it again, Richard. Or try simply AbeBooks.com. I tried it, and

the

site is just wonderful. There's hardly a used railway title I couldn't

find

on it. Even found a copy of "Painting of Railway Equipment,"
Simmons-Boardman 1924, written by Lackawanna shopforeman Miller. I've

only

ever seen one other copy in circulation. I bought it. Two copies of

Shay

Locomotive are on there -- that's just about the rarest of the rare.

Thanks, Jeff Aley, for suggesting the site.

All the best, ....Mike

--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

In a message dated 12/12/00 11:39:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
brockm@brevard.net writes:

The STMFC is pleased to announce that Byron Rose will be returning to active
participation by joining the STMFC. Although Byron indicates he is going to
do it on a trial basis, we will at least have his in depth and

"interesting"

comments and views for awhile. I look forward to his remarks.

I'm on the phone with Byron as we speak, reading him this note. "Now I guess
I'm committed," sez he, amongst many other things.

He'll be on. ....Mike

I tried http://www.abebooks.com/ and found two copies, and some
other interesting stuff.

I tried that website and it wouldn't come up. ???

I have gotten the message "refused by server" on this site several times
this afternoon. But the URL is presumably good.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history

Mike,

I tried http://www.abebooks.com/ and found two copies, and some
other interesting stuff.

I tried that website and it wouldn't come up. ???

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Try again.

Tom M.

Mike,

I tried http://www.abebooks.com/ and found two copies, and some
other interesting stuff.

I tried that website and it wouldn't come up. ???

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Dave Nelson wrote, in response to Jeff Aley,

For example, I recently learned that I need to ship sulfuric acid to
a corn mill (acid was used to produce corn oil). What kind of car do
I use (and more importantly, how can I find out for myself?)?

Find _Tank Car Journeys_ in some used bookstore on the net. It's from the
30's and does a nice job of describing all sorts of stuff that went in tank
cars. In some instances it explains quite a bit about individual industries
too.

Actually, there are two such books. General American Tank Car Journeys was
published by GATC in 1931 (under the title it says "Vol. 1" but there never
was a second volume). An earlier book was Standard Tank Car Journeys
published in 1920 by the Standard Tank Car Co. I have copies of both (but
my GATC book is on loand from Tom Madden and I'd like to find a copy of my
own). I can copy the sections on specific commodities from either or both
for subscribers to this list.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Jeff Aley wrote:

Hmm. I wonder how many others are banned from FCL? Perhaps we should
invite Byron to join this list...

I did. Whether he does so remains to be seen. (I'm reminded of the old
Groucho Marx line, "I'd never belong to a club which would have me as a
member.")

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Dave Nelson writes:

>- I understand opinions vary on when the steam era ended. I think <=1956

is

>generous.

It is commonly regarded by the more formal historian and professional museum
community that the end of the steam era was 1960. The late 1950s still saw
some Class 1 steam, while the 1960s saw steam only on a few short lines and
in Canada. Rolling stock, too, made a big leap in the 1960s, as Richard
pointed out.

....Mike

Mike,

I tried http://www.abebooks.com/ and found two copies, and some
other interesting stuff.

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

On Dec 12, 12:06pm, Dick Harley wrote:

Subject: RE: [STMFC] So why are we doing this?

As one who was permanently banded from the FCList unless I apologized to
Jim Six and his supporters (not likely), [snip]

Hmm. I wonder how many others are banned from FCL? Perhaps we should
invite Byron to join this list...

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

For example, I recently learned that I need to ship sulfuric acid to
a corn mill (acid was used to produce corn oil). What kind of car do
I use (and more importantly, how can I find out for myself?)?

Find _Tank Car Journeys_ in some used bookstore on the net. It's from the
30's and does a nice job of describing all sorts of stuff that went in tank
cars. In some instances it explains quite a bit about individual industries
too.

Dave Nelson

Because of those darn Floridians, I suppose. Everybody in the
country is slightly ticked off

Yes, that accounts for much no doubt, but it's hardly a good enough reason
IMO.

I suppose the list also exists to answer questions such as:
Given a commodity that was shipped by tank car, how do I determine
what type of car carried that commodity. Furthermore, how would I
determine what company or companies owned said type of car for that
commodity?

For example, I recently learned that I need to ship sulfuric acid to
a corn mill (acid was used to produce corn oil). What kind of car do
I use (and more importantly, how can I find out for myself?)?

Surely this could be addressed on the FC list too -- and in the past, it
has.

Hmm. Looks like I need to be blunt: Is the elephant in the room (the one
that nobody wants to speak about) personality or content?

IMO, differing personalities are a fact of life (made somewhat easier by
delete keys and/or kill files) and as such, establishing yet another
discussion group provides no assurance of perpetual pleasantries. Rather
than discuss one or more persons publically, I suggest private e-mails if
further comment is needed.

OTOH, there does appear to me that there is a fundamental schism of
priorities over in FC. Hard to describe singularly, but to my view it
encompases the differing priorites of display vs. used, finescale vs. mass
market, the joy of assembly & painting vs. fastest RTR, a roster of few vs.
many, scratchbuilding vs. buying, accomplished vs. learning, perhaps others,
but generally embodied in the rivet-counter vs. goodenuffer labels. Is
something here the reason for another group?

Or am I just too dense to accept the face value assertion it's about steam
ear cars?

Dave Nelson

--- In STMFC@egroups.com, "Dave & Libby Nelson" <muskoka@i...> wrote:

Title sez it all.

-----------------------------------
Dave Nelson

Because of those darn Floridians, I suppose. Everybody in the
country is slightly ticked off, and as a result, unpleasantness has
reared its head on FCL (and, I predict, on SteamLocomotives).

I suppose the list also exists to answer questions such as:
Given a commodity that was shipped by tank car, how do I determine
what type of car carried that commodity. Furthermore, how would I
determine what company or companies owned said type of car for that
commodity?

For example, I recently learned that I need to ship sulfuric acid to
a corn mill (acid was used to produce corn oil). What kind of car do
I use (and more importantly, how can I find out for myself?)?

Should I just commit the ACF book and RPCyc to memory?


Regards,

-Jeff

P.S. As a reminder, my era of interest is 1950-55.

As one who was permanently banded from the FCList unless I apologized to
Jim Six and his supporters (not likely), I personally hope that this could
be a forum for (mostly) serious discussion about the stated topic without
all the other BS that goes along with most email lists. I am not retired
and do not want do spend my days reading nonsense, hitting the delete key
or wishing people knew how to truncate old messages. I continue to spend
time and money doing a fair amount of railroad research - some of it
freight car related. I am more than willing to share that research with
those who appreciate the effort and contribute themselves. I'd be happy
if this list had three messages a week that were useful. I will not read
25 messages a day that are not useful. (And I have yet to see 25 messages
a day that were even 30% useful.) I prefer quality to quantity.

Whether this is what Mike Brock had in mind, I don't know. Whether this
duplicates the FCList, I'll never know.

Just my 2 cents,
Dick Harley

In a message dated 12/12/00 6:11:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rhendrickson@opendoor.com writes:

I tried http://www.abebooks.com/ and found two copies, and some

>other interesting stuff.

I tried that website and it wouldn't come up. ???

Try it again, Richard. Or try simply AbeBooks.com. I tried it, and the
site is just wonderful. There's hardly a used railway title I couldn't find
on it. Even found a copy of "Painting of Railway Equipment,"
Simmons-Boardman 1924, written by Lackawanna shopforeman Miller. I've only
ever seen one other copy in circulation. I bought it. Two copies of Shay
Locomotive are on there -- that's just about the rarest of the rare.

Thanks, Jeff Aley, for suggesting the site.

All the best, ....Mike

In a message dated 12/12/00 5:58:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rhendrickson@opendoor.com writes:

I did.

So did I. ....Mike

In a message dated 12/12/00 4:30:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
muskoka@ix.netcom.com writes:

Find _Tank Car Journeys_ in some used bookstore on the net.

I'd love to. Can someone recommend some good used book sites?

....Mike

In a message dated 12/12/00 3:21:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jaley@pcocd2.intel.com writes:

For example, I recently learned that I need to ship sulfuric acid to
a corn mill (acid was used to produce corn oil). What kind of car do
I use (and more importantly, how can I find out for myself?)?

That's one of the real reasons why the Official Railway Equipment Register
and Official Guide existed. To help shippers with cars and shipping and
carrying railroads.

If this were the steam era and you wanted to ship sulphuric acid for the
first time ever and had a way to load it, your first call (or Western Union
message) might be to the interchanging railroad, who would say "We don't have
any tank cars, try Union Tank or American Car, Bye." You'd look up those
names in the ORER and give the company a call. In a perfect world they'd
walk you though the process and help you pick the type and number of cars you
need, and come up with a price; a sales rep. might show up for that purpose.
Then you'd arrange to ship the emptys with the railroad, and to ship the
loads to the customer. Anyone shipping tank cars also has to have a private
shop to clean and maintain the cars. You're supposed to get the car clean,
and at the end of your lease it needs to be returned clean. All of the above
is flexible as all kinds of deals are struck.

Some commodities are shipped in certain types of cars. Sulfuric Acid cars
might require special linings and what not -- stuff that's noted in the ORER.
Certain liquids are denser than others, so car sizes need to be worked out.

These were full time jobs for some bigger shippers ....Mike