Date   

Re: AB Brake Cylinder--Special Application

Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

 

No. It was the anchorage for the end of the second lever, which on a freight car normally was anchored to the center sill, often with a slack adjuster at that point. This arrangement is more akin to passenger car brake rigging, with two cylinder levers connected by the cylinder lever tie rod, which is in compression. The piston rod pushing on the end of one lever makes the free ends of both draw together an equal amount. Coordinating two hand brakes called for either a third lever, or a chain and sheave arrangement.


     Thanks, Dennis. I see the difference.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: NYC boxcar

Tim O'Connor
 

Paul

The black background was eliminated between 1944 and 1955 -- but
I imagine SOME cars still had black backgrounds in 1950 although
at the moment I can't find any 1950 photos to prove it.

http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm

Tim O'Connor



 NYC boxcars circa 1950 did they all have a black backing to the herald.
 Thanks
 Paul Doggett UK


Re: NYC boxcar

Benjamin Hom
 

Paul Doggett asked:
"NYC boxcars circa 1950 did they all have a black backing to the herald?"

No. Scroll down 1/3 of the way down this page for painting information on the ovals.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm


Ben Hom


Re: AB Brake Cylinder--Special Application

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <tony@...> wrote :

       I may be misunderstanding the discussion on this topic, but was the backside clevis not used simply to provide the connection to the A end of the caboose brake wheel? Cabooses for generations had brake wheels at both ends, thus needing additional linkage to connect to the cylinder.
=================

No. It was the anchorage for the end of the second lever, which on a freight car normally was anchored to the center sill, often with a slack adjuster at that point. This arrangement is more akin to passenger car brake rigging, with two cylinder levers connected by the cylinder lever tie rod, which is in compression. The piston rod pushing on the end of one lever makes the free ends of both draw together an equal amount. Coordinating two hand brakes called for either a third lever, or a chain and sheave arrangement.

Dennis Storzek



NYC boxcar

paul.doggett2472@...
 

Hi Guys
NYC boxcars circa 1950 did they all have a black backing to the herald.
Thanks 
Paul Doggett UK



Sent from Samsung mobile


Re: AB Brake Cylinder--Special Application

Tony Thompson
 

       I may be misunderstanding the discussion on this topic, but was the backside clevis not used simply to provide the connection to the A end of the caboose brake wheel? Cabooses for generations had brake wheels at both ends, thus needing additional linkage to connect to the cylinder.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: AB Brake Cylinder--Special Application

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <mike_schleigh@...> wrote :

Thank you for your thoughts, Dennis----

I had also considered that the original 8x12 KD cylinder might have been left in place by both frugal railroads that did the AB conversions on this 40,000 pound (nominal) caboose in the early to mid-1950s.  What little I have seen however strongly supports the notion that the cylinders were changed out to the fatter 10x12 version keeping the back-side clevis provision which richly suited the tight quarters allocated for the braking process.

Thanks---Mike Schleigh, Grove City, Penna.
==================
Mike,

Not sure it's a matter of being frugal... Changing from an 8" to a 10" cylinder was more than a 150% increase in braking force. Since I don't believe the AB equipment had a provision to adjust max. cylinder pressure, that meant the hole centers in the brake levers needed to be relocated to limit braking force, still mindful of clearance issues for the brake rods. That's not to say there weren't wood cabooses with 10 x 12 brake cylinders, but it was a consideration.

Dennis Storzek


Re: AB Brake Cylinder--Special Application

Schleigh Mike
 

Thank you for your thoughts, Dennis----

I had also considered that the original 8x12 KD cylinder might have been left in place by both frugal railroads that did the AB conversions on this 40,000 pound (nominal) caboose in the early to mid-1950s.  What little I have seen however strongly supports the notion that the cylinders were changed out to the fatter 10x12 version keeping the back-side clevis provision which richly suited the tight quarters allocated for the braking process.

Thanks---Mike Schleigh, Grove City, Penna.



On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 12:58 AM, "destorzek@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 



---In STMFC@..., wrote :


The particular 'oddity' of this cylinder is the application of a stationary clevis on the 'back-side' of the cylinder.  The air supply port would by necessity be either above, below, in-board , or out-board of the clevis.  The stationary clevis allows that the reaction force of the moving clevis to be "perfectly balanced on the back  side.  Reactionary forces would be at best marginal or secondary through the mounting bracket.
=====================

Some random thoughts... Brake cylinders were not really specific to the brake schedule; if the existing cylinder was adequate for the application, it didn't necessarily need to be changed. On freight cars most were, because the current brake cylinders were a direct replacement for the brake cylinder end of the old KC equipment, but often cabooses were special cases. I know the Soo Line wood cars had KC 8X12 equipment, which is more familiar on narrow gauge cars, due to their light weight, and when converted in the forties, the cars retained these small cylinders, some with new homemade heads in place of the old reservoir.

Since the foundation brake rigging on your subject caboose was laid out to use the clevis on the head as the anchor, I would suspect that the cars originally had KD equipment, and if this is the case, it is quite likely the original cylinders were retained. If so, you'd need to be looking for drawings of brake cylinders from the era the cars were built. You also might want to confirm the size of the cylinder.

Dennis Storzek



Re: Canadian Pacific 1932 ARA boxcar Question

Allen Ferguson
 

Most Canadians just us the F&C kit. It's probably cheaper than the Atlas at the end of the build, has the right roof and ends. The cars were lettered with plain(1936-1947) , spans the World (1947-1951), 3 step Gothic (1951-1963)or Script(1963-1967). All schemes are available from Black Cat.
A few may have made it to multimark but I have no records of that.
Allen Ferguson


Re: Canadian Pacific 1932 ARA boxcar Question

Benjamin Hom
 

Fenton Wells asked:
"I want to do a [HO scale] 1932 ARA boxcar for CP and will need 4/5 dreadnaught ends. Does anyone have any suggestions. The cars were 9'4" IH I believe. And yes as a Southern RR fan I'm not sure why this has me interested but it has. Thanks in advance for any help."

Previous answers suggsting ends notwithstanding, why do you need the ends? Be advised that you'll also need to replace the roof if you plan on kitbashing this prototype from a prewar AAR carbody.

This car is available from Funaro:
http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/6440.html


The Atlas 1932 ARA boxcar radial roof variation is superficially similar, but the roof of the model is different from the CP prototype.


Ben Hom


Re: Canadian Pacific 1932 ARA boxcar Question

O Fenton Wells
 

A couple of good ideas and I thank every who responded.

--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: Canadian Pacific 1932 ARA boxcar Question

O Fenton Wells
 

Sorry Ben, good catch.  HO scale;  I guess I figured you were clairvoyant 
Fenton

On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

"srrfan1401@..." asked:

"I want to do a 1932 ARA boxcar for CP and will need 4/5 dreadnaught ends. Does anyone have any suggestions. The cars were 9'4" IH I believe. And yes as a Southern RR fan I'm not sure why this has me interested but it has. Thanks in advance for any help."

What scale?

Ben Hom




--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: L&N hopper far from home

Tony Thompson
 

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. wrote:

 

One of the Color Guides has a photo of a wreck in Montana in 1955 that includes a Reading hopper.


        At this point in this annual topic, I often point out that I have a color slide of an empty Reading hopper on SP rails in Los Angeles in 1959. Likely moving anthracite used in water treatment.
Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: L&N hopper far from home

Tim O'Connor
 


Anthracite, most likely. Looking into this, I discovered that Washington state
has large coal deposits (estimated at over 50 billion tons) including ANTHRACITE
in an area north of Seattle that was served by the Milwaukee Road -- but the
field was undeveloped as of 1943.

Tim O'Connor


 One of the Color Guides has a photo of a wreck in Montana in 1955 that includes a Reading hopper.
 Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
 Sunbury, Pa.


Re: AB Brake Cylinder--Special Application

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <mike_schleigh@...> wrote :


The particular 'oddity' of this cylinder is the application of a stationary clevis on the 'back-side' of the cylinder.  The air supply port would by necessity be either above, below, in-board , or out-board of the clevis.  The stationary clevis allows that the reaction force of the moving clevis to be "perfectly balanced on the back  side.  Reactionary forces would be at best marginal or secondary through the mounting bracket.
=====================

Some random thoughts... Brake cylinders were not really specific to the brake schedule; if the existing cylinder was adequate for the application, it didn't necessarily need to be changed. On freight cars most were, because the current brake cylinders were a direct replacement for the brake cylinder end of the old KC equipment, but often cabooses were special cases. I know the Soo Line wood cars had KC 8X12 equipment, which is more familiar on narrow gauge cars, due to their light weight, and when converted in the forties, the cars retained these small cylinders, some with new homemade heads in place of the old reservoir.

Since the foundation brake rigging on your subject caboose was laid out to use the clevis on the head as the anchor, I would suspect that the cars originally had KD equipment, and if this is the case, it is quite likely the original cylinders were retained. If so, you'd need to be looking for drawings of brake cylinders from the era the cars were built. You also might want to confirm the size of the cylinder.

Dennis Storzek


Re: L&N hopper far from home

rdgbuff56
 

One of the Color Guides has a photo of a wreck in Montana in 1955 that includes a Reading hopper.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.
Sunbury, Pa.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:"Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC]"
Date:Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 11:55 pm
Subject:Re: [STMFC] L&N hopper far from home

 


Eastern hoppers were common in Provo UT, not just Pueblo CO, loaded
with met coal. This one probably was reloaded at one of the mines in
Utah or western Colorado, and THAT source of coal was an everyday commodity
delivered to industries in the Mojave desert, often by way of Donner Pass.

Tim O'Connor

P.S. never saw a Trona caboose before!

>http://www.ebay.com/itm/Trona-Caboose-100-Black-White-Photo-/111879967907?
>
>I've heard of CF&I in Pueblo buying coke from Chattanooga which arrived
>in L&N hoppers, but Searles, California? Surely pet coke from
>Pittsburg, CA would be cheaper after you consider shipping charges. Hmmmm
>
>And if it's just a load of coal, that would be even harder to explain.
>
>It probably didn't get to the Mojave by way of Sherman Hill, so Mike is
>safe.....
>
>Really interesting caboose too. Built from a short passenger car maybe?
>
>Scott Chatfield


Re: L&N hopper far from home

Tim O'Connor
 

Eastern hoppers were common in Provo UT, not just Pueblo CO, loaded
with met coal. This one probably was reloaded at one of the mines in
Utah or western Colorado, and THAT source of coal was an everyday commodity
delivered to industries in the Mojave desert, often by way of Donner Pass.

Tim O'Connor

P.S. never saw a Trona caboose before!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Trona-Caboose-100-Black-White-Photo-/111879967907?

I've heard of CF&I in Pueblo buying coke from Chattanooga which arrived
in L&N hoppers, but Searles, California? Surely pet coke from
Pittsburg, CA would be cheaper after you consider shipping charges. Hmmmm

And if it's just a load of coal, that would be even harder to explain.

It probably didn't get to the Mojave by way of Sherman Hill, so Mike is
safe.....

Really interesting caboose too. Built from a short passenger car maybe?

Scott Chatfield


Re: Canadian Pacific 1932 ARA boxcar Question

Tim O'Connor
 


Dan Kirlin made 5/5 dreadnaught ends for a 10'0" IH CP box car. I think
Sylvan or Kaslo (?) produced Dan's ends for a while. Those ends probably
could be adapted to a shorter IH box car.

Tim O'Connor



I want to do a 1932 ARA boxcar for CP and will need 4/5 dreadnaught ends.  Does anyone have any suggestions.  The cars were 9'4" IH I believe.  And yes as a Southern RR fan I'm not sure why this has me interested but it has.  Thanks in advance for any help.


Re: Walthers Proto RTR Mopac Express Boxcar

mopacfirst
 

I was away when this discussion was going on, but perhaps not too late.

I have used the underframe from the MDC Roundhouse single-sheathed 50' box for this MoPac BX car.  I don't think it's exactly a drop-in, but very close.

Watch the trucks, too.  These cars had a Commonwealth BX truck similar to, but subtly different from, the Athearn BX truck, while they were in passenger service.

Ron Merrick


Re: L&N hopper far from home

Todd Sullivan
 

I know from conversations and photographic evidence that foreign road cars didn't always get sent homeward promptly when empty.  Sometimes, they were 'borrowed' for loading and sent wherever the load was going.  There are photos of short coal trains on the PRR's Schuylkill Valley Branch above Pottsville, PA that have 80% foreign road hoppers.  Maybe this L&N hopper was loaded to a Midwestern point when there was a shortage of hoppers, and got borrowed for loading and sent further west.

Todd Sullivan
Liverpool, NY

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