Date   

Re: Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's

Ray Breyer
 

More information, and a better photo of the flat car, is here:

Still not an "American" tank. Built by Chrysler for lend-lease to the British, who assigned them to an Indian tank battalion. Transferred to an American supply depot, which shipped the tanks to the Chinese.
 
Ray Breyer 
 Elgin, IL



From: "Ray Breyer rtbsvrr69@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's



Google image search is your friend:

Calcutta 1944. The skirts are a dead giveaway: this isn't even an American tank.
 
Ray Breyer 
 Elgin, IL



From: "Robert Bogie robertb@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 7:55 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's



Bill,

There is also the question of whether the photo was taken in the USA or another country. There are three clues to suggest it's another country.

1. On the side of the freight car is the lettering:- Load 33 tons at centre or 40 tons.... Normally in North America, you spell this word it as center, whereas in Britain and other Commonwealth countries it is spelt the French way as centre.

2. The wheels have 4 holes in them. This very common in Britain and some Australian railways. Maybe other countries as well.

3. Under the rear wheels of the tank and partially shrouded by the end of the freight car is a buffer, as well as a screw link coupling touching the small mound of earth. As buffers and screw link couplers aren't used on American freight cars, that's evidence the photo was taken in another country outside North America and why you don't recognise the reporting marks.

It doesn't match any Australian freight cars I have info on, but a quick look through one of my books on British freight cars showed a photo of a very similar car and the caption indicated it was built for the British War Dept in WW2 for the transport of tanks. Judging from the appearance of the person on the left of the photo and the "pith helmet" on someone partially hidden by the front of the tank, the photo was most likely taken in a country with a hot climate (ie in North Africa) when the allies brought in equipment to operate the railways located there after retaking it from the "axis" forces.

Robert Bogie
Melbourne, Australia

On 15/02/2016 11:30 PM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
I am currently building some 1/35 scale Shermans and ran across this interesting photo of Arch Bar trucks in use in 1942 or after. I don't recognize the reporting marks. At first I thought it might be a flat owned by Baldwin but they did not build any M4A1 versions with the cast hull. Could wartime conditions have caused some owners to continue to use Arch Bars? The flats wheels are interesting too.

Bill Welch











Re: NYC train consists

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Only some early 20's passenger train books with less detail survived intact. But I had already scanned the rest in fairly high resolution, saved into PDFs, and shared them with several people, notably Al Brown. Al sent me back the PDFs (one per train recorded) as well as his Excel transcriptions. So the originals are gone, but the content is still available!

I have ten 16gb flash drives on which I'm copying all my shareable photos and data (some photos are copyrighted and not shareable). I'm just glad I backed up most stuff on CDs which were in another room and survived! I'm sending those drives to good friends and fellow Southern and A&Y researchers as my own personal cloud. I'd rather share this info and help it survive with people who know and care, then hoard it and have it lost to another event or if I die (my wife knows I have stuff, but not what it's worth or to whom it should go). I don't find the time to share via web as well as Tom Daspit.  

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott's iPad

On Feb 15, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Craig Zeni clzeni@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 


On Feb 15, 2016, at 12:28 AM, STMFC@... wrote:

> 2.2. Re: NYC train consists
> Posted by: "David Bott" dbott@... lwulffe_doc
> Date: Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:01 am ((PST))
>
> You've given me a model for sharing my Southern Railway 1934 train info! Right now it is still PDF scans and a growing Excel spreadsheet.
>
> I can easily convert to html tables.

Dave, did your conductors' books survive your recent fire?

Craig Zeni
Cary NC


Re: Odd Carling Breweries LTD Tank Car

Benjamin Hom
 

Brad Smith wrote:
"Coors shipped beer in insulated tank cars, from Colorado to the
East coast, where it was bottled. The beer only dropped a couple of
degrees on the trip. I have pics of some of the tank cars. They had

no advertising on them."

Not during the period of this list! Coors wasn't distributed on the East coast until the 1980s. Remember the underlying premise of "Smokey and the Bandit".


Ben Hom


Re: Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's

Ray Breyer
 

Google image search is your friend:

Calcutta 1944. The skirts are a dead giveaway: this isn't even an American tank.
 
Ray Breyer 
 Elgin, IL



From: "Robert Bogie robertb@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 7:55 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's



Bill,

There is also the question of whether the photo was taken in the USA or another country. There are three clues to suggest it's another country.

1. On the side of the freight car is the lettering:- Load 33 tons at centre or 40 tons.... Normally in North America, you spell this word it as center, whereas in Britain and other Commonwealth countries it is spelt the French way as centre.

2. The wheels have 4 holes in them. This very common in Britain and some Australian railways. Maybe other countries as well.

3. Under the rear wheels of the tank and partially shrouded by the end of the freight car is a buffer, as well as a screw link coupling touching the small mound of earth. As buffers and screw link couplers aren't used on American freight cars, that's evidence the photo was taken in another country outside North America and why you don't recognise the reporting marks.

It doesn't match any Australian freight cars I have info on, but a quick look through one of my books on British freight cars showed a photo of a very similar car and the caption indicated it was built for the British War Dept in WW2 for the transport of tanks. Judging from the appearance of the person on the left of the photo and the "pith helmet" on someone partially hidden by the front of the tank, the photo was most likely taken in a country with a hot climate (ie in North Africa) when the allies brought in equipment to operate the railways located there after retaking it from the "axis" forces.

Robert Bogie
Melbourne, Australia

On 15/02/2016 11:30 PM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
I am currently building some 1/35 scale Shermans and ran across this interesting photo of Arch Bar trucks in use in 1942 or after. I don't recognize the reporting marks. At first I thought it might be a flat owned by Baldwin but they did not build any M4A1 versions with the cast hull. Could wartime conditions have caused some owners to continue to use Arch Bars? The flats wheels are interesting too.

Bill Welch







Re: Odd Carling Breweries LTD Tank Car

Brad Smith
 

Carling had multiple breweries and probably tried shipping beer between breweries.  Coors shipped beer in insulated tank cars, from Colorado to the East coast, where it was bottled.  The beer only dropped a couple of degrees on the trip.  I have pics of some of the tank cars.  They had no advertising on them.
 
Brad Smith


Re: Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's

Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks, Bruce. I did notice the leaks. It seemed odd to sera bolted cover there. 

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX


On Feb 15, 2016, at 6:37 AM, 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Eric,

I don’t think that they are sealed.  Look at the leaking oil at the bottom of the lid.  I think the lid is just a bit different from what you are used to ;)

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Feb 15, 2016, at 7:16 AM, STMFC@... wrote:



Check out the journal boxes. The lids seem to be sealed. Would these have roller bearings?


Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX



On February 15, 2016 at 5:53 AM "'paul.doggett2472' paul.doggett2472@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Bruce
I think you are correct England or Europe arch bar trucks were in use here into the 60s also the wheel looks to be a 3 hole disc wheel very common over here.
Paul Doggett UK




Sent from Samsung mobile

"'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

​Bill,


The photo was not taken in the US ;)   Notice as well, that the flat is a depressed center flat.  Speculations as to location might include England given the english stencil on the flat, but also might be a delivery port such as one in France or Belgium with a flat stenciled so that the allies could use it (either brought from England as well, or restenciled indigenous rolling stock.


Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 6:30 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's
 


I am currently building some 1/35 scale Shermans and ran across this interesting photo of Arch Bar trucks in use in 1942 or after. I don't recognize the reporting marks. At first I thought it might be a flat owned by Baldwin but they did not build any M4A1 versions with the cast hull. Could wartime conditions have caused some owners to continue to use Arch Bars? The flats wheels are interesting too.


Bill Welch

http://www.theshermantank.com/wp-content/uploads/3061430.jpg




 

 





Re: NYC train consists

Craig Zeni
 

On Feb 15, 2016, at 12:28 AM, STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:

2.2. Re: NYC train consists
Posted by: "David Bott" dbott@vt.edu lwulffe_doc
Date: Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:01 am ((PST))

You've given me a model for sharing my Southern Railway 1934 train info! Right now it is still PDF scans and a growing Excel spreadsheet.

I can easily convert to html tables.
Dave, did your conductors' books survive your recent fire?


Craig Zeni
Cary NC


Re: Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's

robertb@smartchat.net.au
 

Bill,

There is also the question of whether the photo was taken in the USA or another country. There are three clues to suggest it's another country.

1. On the side of the freight car is the lettering:- Load 33 tons at centre or 40 tons.... Normally in North America, you spell this word it as center, whereas in Britain and other Commonwealth countries it is spelt the French way as centre.

2. The wheels have 4 holes in them. This very common in Britain and some Australian railways. Maybe other countries as well.

3. Under the rear wheels of the tank and partially shrouded by the end of the freight car is a buffer, as well as a screw link coupling touching the small mound of earth. As buffers and screw link couplers aren't used on American freight cars, that's evidence the photo was taken in another country outside North America and why you don't recognise the reporting marks.

It doesn't match any Australian freight cars I have info on, but a quick look through one of my books on British freight cars showed a photo of a very similar car and the caption indicated it was built for the British War Dept in WW2 for the transport of tanks. Judging from the appearance of the person on the left of the photo and the "pith helmet" on someone partially hidden by the front of the tank, the photo was most likely taken in a country with a hot climate (ie in North Africa) when the allies brought in equipment to operate the railways located there after retaking it from the "axis" forces.

Robert Bogie
Melbourne, Australia

On 15/02/2016 11:30 PM, fgexbill@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

I am currently building some 1/35 scale Shermans and ran across this interesting photo of Arch Bar trucks in use in 1942 or after. I don't recognize the reporting marks. At first I thought it might be a flat owned by Baldwin but they did not build any M4A1 versions with the cast hull. Could wartime conditions have caused some owners to continue to use Arch Bars? The flats wheels are interesting too.


Bill Welch

http://www.theshermantank.com/wp-content/uploads/3061430.jpg




Re: Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's

Douglas Harding
 

The lid appears to be a piece of flat steel bolted on, ie similar to a blank cover on an electrical box.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's

Bruce Smith
 

Eric,

I don’t think that they are sealed.  Look at the leaking oil at the bottom of the lid.  I think the lid is just a bit different from what you are used to ;)

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Feb 15, 2016, at 7:16 AM, STMFC@... wrote:



Check out the journal boxes. The lids seem to be sealed. Would these have roller bearings?


Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX



On February 15, 2016 at 5:53 AM "'paul.doggett2472' paul.doggett2472@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Bruce
I think you are correct England or Europe arch bar trucks were in use here into the 60s also the wheel looks to be a 3 hole disc wheel very common over here.
Paul Doggett UK




Sent from Samsung mobile

"'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

​Bill,


The photo was not taken in the US ;)   Notice as well, that the flat is a depressed center flat.  Speculations as to location might include England given the english stencil on the flat, but also might be a delivery port such as one in France or Belgium with a flat stenciled so that the allies could use it (either brought from England as well, or restenciled indigenous rolling stock.


Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 6:30 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's
 


I am currently building some 1/35 scale Shermans and ran across this interesting photo of Arch Bar trucks in use in 1942 or after. I don't recognize the reporting marks. At first I thought it might be a flat owned by Baldwin but they did not build any M4A1 versions with the cast hull. Could wartime conditions have caused some owners to continue to use Arch Bars? The flats wheels are interesting too.


Bill Welch

http://www.theshermantank.com/wp-content/uploads/3061430.jpg




 

 





Re: Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's

Eric Hansmann
 

Check out the journal boxes. The lids seem to be sealed. Would these have roller bearings?


Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX



On February 15, 2016 at 5:53 AM "'paul.doggett2472' paul.doggett2472@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

Bruce
I think you are correct England or Europe arch bar trucks were in use here into the 60s also the wheel looks to be a 3 hole disc wheel very common over here.
Paul Doggett UK




Sent from Samsung mobile

"'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

 

​Bill,


The photo was not taken in the US ;)   Notice as well, that the flat is a depressed center flat.  Speculations as to location might include England given the english stencil on the flat, but also might be a delivery port such as one in France or Belgium with a flat stenciled so that the allies could use it (either brought from England as well, or restenciled indigenous rolling stock.


Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 6:30 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's
 


I am currently building some 1/35 scale Shermans and ran across this interesting photo of Arch Bar trucks in use in 1942 or after. I don't recognize the reporting marks. At first I thought it might be a flat owned by Baldwin but they did not build any M4A1 versions with the cast hull. Could wartime conditions have caused some owners to continue to use Arch Bars? The flats wheels are interesting too.


Bill Welch

http://www.theshermantank.com/wp-content/uploads/3061430.jpg




 

 


Re: Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's

Bill Welch
 

Thanks everyone. I my surprise seeing the obsolete trucks I did not even consider that it was an overseas image.

Bill Welch


Re: Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's

Todd Horton
 

There is a "Centre Alabama". 😃.  Todd Horton 


On Feb 15, 2016, at 7:41 AM, "Eric Hansmann eric@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Bill,

This photo was not taken in the US! Look closely and you can see a European style buffer against the ramp.

Also look at the lettering on the angled part on the left. I don't see "centre" spelled that way in the US in the 1930-50 time span.


Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX



On February 15, 2016 at 5:30 AM "fgexbill@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

I am currently building some 1/35 scale Shermans and ran across this interesting photo of Arch Bar trucks in use in 1942 or after. I don't recognize the reporting marks. At first I thought it might be a flat owned by Baldwin but they did not build any M4A1 versions with the cast hull. Could wartime conditions have caused some owners to continue to use Arch Bars? The flats wheels are interesting too.


Bill Welch

http://www.theshermantank.com/wp-content/uploads/3061430.jpg



Re: Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's

John Barry
 

Concur that it is not in the US.  Note the chap in the sun helmet at the front of the Sherman.  Australia, India,  North  Africa (Egypt, Casblanca, Oran?) It is definitely in a port facility though with the ship in the back ground.  The markings on the placard and the grease around the base of the turret are consistent with overseas shipping prep.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "Eric Hansmann eric@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's

 
Bill,
This photo was not taken in the US! Look closely and you can see a European style buffer against the ramp.
Also look at the lettering on the angled part on the left. I don't see "centre" spelled that way in the US in the 1930-50 time span.

Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX


On February 15, 2016 at 5:30 AM "fgexbill@... [STMFC]" wrote:

I am currently building some 1/35 scale Shermans and ran across this interesting photo of Arch Bar trucks in use in 1942 or after. I don't recognize the reporting marks. At first I thought it might be a flat owned by Baldwin but they did not build any M4A1 versions with the cast hull. Could wartime conditions have caused some owners to continue to use Arch Bars? The flats wheels are interesting too.

Bill Welch




Re: Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Bruce
I think you are correct England or Europe arch bar trucks were in use here into the 60s also the wheel looks to be a 3 hole disc wheel very common over here.
Paul Doggett UK




Sent from Samsung mobile

"'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

​Bill,


The photo was not taken in the US ;)   Notice as well, that the flat is a depressed center flat.  Speculations as to location might include England given the english stencil on the flat, but also might be a delivery port such as one in France or Belgium with a flat stenciled so that the allies could use it (either brought from England as well, or restenciled indigenous rolling stock.


Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of fgexbill@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 6:30 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's
 


I am currently building some 1/35 scale Shermans and ran across this interesting photo of Arch Bar trucks in use in 1942 or after. I don't recognize the reporting marks. At first I thought it might be a flat owned by Baldwin but they did not build any M4A1 versions with the cast hull. Could wartime conditions have caused some owners to continue to use Arch Bars? The flats wheels are interesting too.


Bill Welch

http://www.theshermantank.com/wp-content/uploads/3061430.jpg





Re: Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's

Eric Hansmann
 

Bill,

This photo was not taken in the US! Look closely and you can see a European style buffer against the ramp.

Also look at the lettering on the angled part on the left. I don't see "centre" spelled that way in the US in the 1930-50 time span.


Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX



On February 15, 2016 at 5:30 AM "fgexbill@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

I am currently building some 1/35 scale Shermans and ran across this interesting photo of Arch Bar trucks in use in 1942 or after. I don't recognize the reporting marks. At first I thought it might be a flat owned by Baldwin but they did not build any M4A1 versions with the cast hull. Could wartime conditions have caused some owners to continue to use Arch Bars? The flats wheels are interesting too.


Bill Welch

http://www.theshermantank.com/wp-content/uploads/3061430.jpg



Re: Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's

Bruce Smith
 

​Bill,


The photo was not taken in the US ;)   Notice as well, that the flat is a depressed center flat.  Speculations as to location might include England given the english stencil on the flat, but also might be a delivery port such as one in France or Belgium with a flat stenciled so that the allies could use it (either brought from England as well, or restenciled indigenous rolling stock.


Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... on behalf of fgexbill@... [STMFC]
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2016 6:30 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's
 


I am currently building some 1/35 scale Shermans and ran across this interesting photo of Arch Bar trucks in use in 1942 or after. I don't recognize the reporting marks. At first I thought it might be a flat owned by Baldwin but they did not build any M4A1 versions with the cast hull. Could wartime conditions have caused some owners to continue to use Arch Bars? The flats wheels are interesting too.


Bill Welch

http://www.theshermantank.com/wp-content/uploads/3061430.jpg





Arch Bar Trucks in the 1940's

Bill Welch
 

I am currently building some 1/35 scale Shermans and ran across this interesting photo of Arch Bar trucks in use in 1942 or after. I don't recognize the reporting marks. At first I thought it might be a flat owned by Baldwin but they did not build any M4A1 versions with the cast hull. Could wartime conditions have caused some owners to continue to use Arch Bars? The flats wheels are interesting too.


Bill Welch

http://www.theshermantank.com/wp-content/uploads/3061430.jpg



Re: Odd Carling Breweries LTD Tank Car

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Paul,

No not a milk car, unless Carling was brewing milk stout. Yes, it certainly is set up for passenger train service. Its destination might have been a subsidiary bottling/kegging plant . . .  or else a VERY busy pub. :~)

Seriously, this seems similar to interior diagrams I have seen for Pfaudler-General American milk cars, though the jacketed tanks are more robust, as might be expected since they are exposed. They are likely glass lined or stainless steel. See Gregg TRAIN SHED CYCLOPEDIA #3, or page 194 of the 1931 CAR BUILDERS' CYCLOPEDIA. Note the small sliding door at the top of the housing, which is very similar to Pfaudler cars. If the analogy holds, this small door was the entry point for filling/emptying hoses, and the housing protected a compressor and fittings (per the Gregg description).

Cool car (pun intended). I wonder how many of these were built, and whether they were successful.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 2/14/16 9:21 PM, paulkattner@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Is this a milk car?  It seems to be set up for passenger train service.

http://rr-fallenflags.org/gatx/gpex723f12.jpg

 

Thanks


Paul Kattner




Re: The Stan Rydarowitz Collection

Tom Madden
 

Tim's link shows Mark's completed auctions. This one should take you to the active ones:

marksd45 | eBay


Tom Madden

 

44761 - 44780 of 185219