Date   
Re: ANDREWS TRUCKS

Tony Thompson
 

      One important Andrews spotting feature is the tie bars which hold the bottom of the journal boxes. The USRA version, often modeled, has two short tie bars extending horizontally on either side of the spring package opening in the sideframe. An earlier Andrews design used a single, long tie bar that ran beneath the bottom of the sideframe and connected to the journal boxes on either side. This is the design modeled by the Kadee Andrews truck, their number 509. I am aware of the latter mostly because the Andrews trucks used by SP were predominantly of the long-tie-bar type.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




Re: [EXTERNAL] ANDREWS TRUCKS

Dave Parker
 

Bill:

Although not advertised as such, the Accurail Andrews truck is based on a 70-ton prototype with a slightly longer axle-to-axle distance of ~5-8 (or so I have been told).  The TMW Andrews is based (quite accurately) on the USRA "standard" truck rated at 50 tons, and the distance is 5-6.

At the risk of getting jumped for overgeneralizing, it has been my experience that there is a loose (read imperfect) correlation between a truck's capacity and its "wheelbase", at least pre-WWII.  The few 70-ton trucks that I need are 5-8 or 5-9, while the 40- and 50-ton trucks are almost always 5-6.  If you go back far enough, you find trucks rated at 30, or even 20, tons, and these often had "wheelbases" noticeably shorter than 5-6.

So, yes, I can understand how the Accurail truck might look a bit out of proportion on a 36-foot "shorty", but it would take a discerning eye to spot it.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


On Tuesday, February 23, 2016 2:21 PM, "tyesac@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
BIll,
 
The Santa Fe Warbonnet had an article regarding freight car trucks several years ago, by Richard Hendrickson.   On the Santa Fe, there was an Andrews type designated "505" (probably the engineering drwawing #), that may also be found in Frank Ellington's Staock Cars of the Santa Fe.
 
Tom Casey
Bill;

Noting that "Andrews" is a type of truck, not a specific manufactured truck, I can provide the following:

The PRR's 2D-F2 "Crown" S.C. (cast steel) "Andrews" truck had a wheelbase of 5'6"
The 2D-F3 "USRA" Andrews truck had the same wheelbase
The 2D-F3a "USRA" Andrews truck also had a 5'6" wheelbase

All of the "Crown" "Andrews" trucks found on PRR hoppers (like H21A), plus F25A flats and H24 hopper, had 5'10" wheelbases
All of the "Crown" "Andrews" trucks found on the G25 and G25A gons had 5'8" wheelbases

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 3:15 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] ANDREWS TRUCKS

I have kept the replies to my questions on the proper trucks not only for my inquiries but for those of others,
You never know when you will need information on a car that you are doing.I was looking at one of Richard
Hendrickson's post the other day in which he had recommended Accurail andrews trucks over all others
for a Santa Fe BX-6 boxcar. His reasoning was the bolster ends. I got a pair of Accurail Andrews trucks
on when I compared them to Tahoe Models trucks I noticed that the didtance between the axels was slightly
greater on the Accurail trucks. As I am constantly reviewing may completed models as well as those in
progress and this discrepancy sort of hit home. I have a completed Westerfield S-40-4 stock car on which the
trucks (Accurail) seemed a bit long. This may have been emphasized by the fact that the stock car is a
36' car.

Has anyone else noticed this and just what is the actual axel spacing on Andrews trucks?

Bill Pardie
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Gatwood, Elden SAW' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC] [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Feb 23, 2016 2:26 pm
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] ANDREWS TRUCKS

 
Bill;

Noting that "Andrews" is a type of truck, not a specific manufactured truck, I can provide the following:

The PRR's 2D-F2 "Crown" S.C. (cast steel) "Andrews" truck had a wheelbase of 5'6"
The 2D-F3 "USRA" Andrews truck had the same wheelbase
The 2D-F3a "USRA" Andrews truck also had a 5'6" wheelbase

All of the "Crown" "Andrews" trucks found on PRR hoppers (like H21A), plus F25A flats and H24 hopper, had 5'10" wheelbases
All of the "Crown" "Andrews" trucks found on the G25 and G25A gons had 5'8" wheelbases

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 3:15 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] ANDREWS TRUCKS

I have kept the replies to my questions on the proper trucks not only for my inquiries but for those of others,
You never know when you will need information on a car that you are doing.I was looking at one of Richard
Hendrickson's post the other day in which he had recommended Accurail andrews trucks over all others
for a Santa Fe BX-6 boxcar. His reasoning was the bolster ends. I got a pair of Accurail Andrews trucks
on when I compared them to Tahoe Models trucks I noticed that the didtance between the axels was slightly
greater on the Accurail trucks. As I am constantly reviewing may completed models as well as those in
progress and this discrepancy sort of hit home. I have a completed Westerfield S-40-4 stock car on which the
trucks (Accurail) seemed a bit long. This may have been emphasized by the fact that the stock car is a
36' car.

Has anyone else noticed this and just what is the actual axel spacing on Andrews trucks?

Bill Pardie



Re: [EXTERNAL] ANDREWS TRUCKS

tyesac@aol.com
 

BIll,
 
The Santa Fe Warbonnet had an article regarding freight car trucks several years ago, by Richard Hendrickson.   On the Santa Fe, there was an Andrews type designated "505" (probably the engineering drwawing #), that may also be found in Frank Ellington's Staock Cars of the Santa Fe.
 
Tom Casey
Bill;

Noting that "Andrews" is a type of truck, not a specific manufactured truck, I can provide the following:

The PRR's 2D-F2 "Crown" S.C. (cast steel) "Andrews" truck had a wheelbase of 5'6"
The 2D-F3 "USRA" Andrews truck had the same wheelbase
The 2D-F3a "USRA" Andrews truck also had a 5'6" wheelbase

All of the "Crown" "Andrews" trucks found on PRR hoppers (like H21A), plus F25A flats and H24 hopper, had 5'10" wheelbases
All of the "Crown" "Andrews" trucks found on the G25 and G25A gons had 5'8" wheelbases

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 3:15 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] ANDREWS TRUCKS

I have kept the replies to my questions on the proper trucks not only for my inquiries but for those of others,
You never know when you will need information on a car that you are doing.I was looking at one of Richard
Hendrickson's post the other day in which he had recommended Accurail andrews trucks over all others
for a Santa Fe BX-6 boxcar. His reasoning was the bolster ends. I got a pair of Accurail Andrews trucks
on when I compared them to Tahoe Models trucks I noticed that the didtance between the axels was slightly
greater on the Accurail trucks. As I am constantly reviewing may completed models as well as those in
progress and this discrepancy sort of hit home. I have a completed Westerfield S-40-4 stock car on which the
trucks (Accurail) seemed a bit long. This may have been emphasized by the fact that the stock car is a
36' car.

Has anyone else noticed this and just what is the actual axel spacing on Andrews trucks?

Bill Pardie
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Gatwood, Elden SAW' elden.j.gatwood@... [STMFC] [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Feb 23, 2016 2:26 pm
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] ANDREWS TRUCKS

 
Bill;

Noting that "Andrews" is a type of truck, not a specific manufactured truck, I can provide the following:

The PRR's 2D-F2 "Crown" S.C. (cast steel) "Andrews" truck had a wheelbase of 5'6"
The 2D-F3 "USRA" Andrews truck had the same wheelbase
The 2D-F3a "USRA" Andrews truck also had a 5'6" wheelbase

All of the "Crown" "Andrews" trucks found on PRR hoppers (like H21A), plus F25A flats and H24 hopper, had 5'10" wheelbases
All of the "Crown" "Andrews" trucks found on the G25 and G25A gons had 5'8" wheelbases

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 3:15 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] ANDREWS TRUCKS

I have kept the replies to my questions on the proper trucks not only for my inquiries but for those of others,
You never know when you will need information on a car that you are doing.I was looking at one of Richard
Hendrickson's post the other day in which he had recommended Accurail andrews trucks over all others
for a Santa Fe BX-6 boxcar. His reasoning was the bolster ends. I got a pair of Accurail Andrews trucks
on when I compared them to Tahoe Models trucks I noticed that the didtance between the axels was slightly
greater on the Accurail trucks. As I am constantly reviewing may completed models as well as those in
progress and this discrepancy sort of hit home. I have a completed Westerfield S-40-4 stock car on which the
trucks (Accurail) seemed a bit long. This may have been emphasized by the fact that the stock car is a
36' car.

Has anyone else noticed this and just what is the actual axel spacing on Andrews trucks?

Bill Pardie

Re: ANDREWS TRUCKS

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

Also a figure skating jump.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



"Axel" is a cop from Detroit...


__._,_

Re: ANDREWS TRUCKS

Benjamin Hom
 

Bill Pardie asked:
" I got a pair of Accurail Andrews trucks on when I compared them to Tahoe Models trucks I noticed that the distance between the [axles] was slightly greater on the Accurail trucks.  As I am constantly reviewing my completed models as well as those in progress and this discrepancy sort of hit home. I have a completed Westerfield S-40-4 stock car on which the trucks (Accurail) seemed a bit long. This may have been emphasized by the fact that the stock car is a 36' car.

Has anyone else noticed this and just what is the actual [axle] spacing on Andrews trucks?"

You do realize that prototype trucks come in a variety of wheelbases?


Ben Hom
"Axel" is a cop from Detroit...

Re: [EXTERNAL] ANDREWS TRUCKS

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bill;

Noting that "Andrews" is a type of truck, not a specific manufactured truck, I can provide the following:

The PRR's 2D-F2 "Crown" S.C. (cast steel) "Andrews" truck had a wheelbase of 5'6"
The 2D-F3 "USRA" Andrews truck had the same wheelbase
The 2D-F3a "USRA" Andrews truck also had a 5'6" wheelbase

All of the "Crown" "Andrews" trucks found on PRR hoppers (like H21A), plus F25A flats and H24 hopper, had 5'10" wheelbases
All of the "Crown" "Andrews" trucks found on the G25 and G25A gons had 5'8" wheelbases

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 3:15 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [STMFC] ANDREWS TRUCKS




I have kept the replies to my questions on the proper trucks not only for my inquiries but for those of others,
You never know when you will need information on a car that you are doing.I was looking at one of Richard
Hendrickson's post the other day in which he had recommended Accurail andrews trucks over all others
for a Santa Fe BX-6 boxcar. His reasoning was the bolster ends. I got a pair of Accurail Andrews trucks
on when I compared them to Tahoe Models trucks I noticed that the didtance between the axels was slightly
greater on the Accurail trucks. As I am constantly reviewing may completed models as well as those in
progress and this discrepancy sort of hit home. I have a completed Westerfield S-40-4 stock car on which the
trucks (Accurail) seemed a bit long. This may have been emphasized by the fact that the stock car is a
36' car.

Has anyone else noticed this and just what is the actual axel spacing on Andrews trucks?

Bill Pardie

ANDREWS TRUCKS

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I have kept the replies to my questions on the proper trucks not only for my inquiries but for those of others,
You never know when you will need information on a car that you are doing.I was looking at one of Richard
Hendrickson's post the other day in which he had recommended Accurail andrews trucks over all others
for a Santa Fe BX-6 boxcar. His reasoning was the bolster ends. I got a pair of Accurail Andrews trucks
on when I compared them to Tahoe Models trucks I noticed that the didtance between the axels was slightly
greater on the Accurail trucks. As I am constantly reviewing may completed models as well as those in
progress and this discrepancy sort of hit home. I have a completed Westerfield S-40-4 stock car on which the
trucks (Accurail) seemed a bit long. This may have been emphasized by the fact that the stock car is a
36' car.

Has anyone else noticed this and just what is the actual axel spacing on Andrews trucks?

Bill Pardie

BAR Blueprints Box Car Details on eBay

rwitt_2000
 

Anyone looking for details of 1930s BAR box cars may want to take a look at these items and others from the same seller.

eBay item number: 222032003283

1938 Blueprint Bangor and Aroostook Railroad Camel Sales - All Steel Box Cars

 

1938 Blueprint Bangor and Aroostook Railroad Super Structure Details Box Cars

 



Bob Witt


Re: Palomar Observatory Mirror Blank Delivery 5/12/1936

al_brown03
 

There's a photo of the blank being delivered to Pasadena, in Judith R. Goodstein's book "Millikan's School" (a history of Caltech); the photos are grouped separately from the text, and it's in the second group of photos.


Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

Re: sideframe photo

Tony Thompson
 


"Freight cars being maneuvered in a Chicago and Northwestern railroad yard, Chicago, Ill.", Jack Delano, December 1942.

    Thanks to Richard Dermody and Ben Hom for the help. I have some old sideframes and now I know what to do with them . . .

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




Re: Palomar Observatory Mirror Blank Delivery 5/12/1936

spsalso
 

From the most excellent book by Ronald Florence:  "The Perfect Machine":


Loaded at Corning on NYC


(through Rochester)

(routed for short distance on DL&W near Buffalo)

(went through Cleveland, Indianapolis, Charleston, Ill.)


To CB&Q at St. Louis


(routed through Cameron Junction, MO)


To ATSF at Kansas City


(detour near Albuquerque) 

(over Cajon Pass)


Deliver at East Pasadena



trip was 14 days, travel only during daylight, max speed 25 mph

load height was almost 18' over rails

railroad cranes were used for loading and unloading at each end--the Santa Fe supplied the 150 ton Barstow crane (load weight 35 tons)


There is a superb photo of a Santa Fe Mike pulling the train here (near the bottom):


Palomar Skies: April 2010



I also found a shot of "most" of the NYC train here:


http://www.kinglyheirs.com/NewYorkStateRailroads/NYStateRailroadIndex.html#.VstSChzxmJk



While wading through the few online photos that I could find, I did find a kupla interesting things.  One is that the NYC well flat had archbar trucks without springing.  You can see a decent photo of the in an adjacent photo to the Santa Fe train I mentioned above.  Imagine.  Hauling a giant piece of glass with no supporting springs.  They must have thought about that option a LOT.


The other thing is here:


Exhibitions | Corning Museum of Glass


If you look at photo #3 in the album series, you see a shot that appears to be the loading of the well flat in Corning.  The problem I'm having is that, while the load appears to be suspended 3' above the car, I don't see anything holding it up.  I see no visual connection between the crane and the lifting frame.  Maybe I'm just (not) seeing things.  But it looks weird to me.



Ed


Edward Sutorik 

Re: DT&I gon - a perspective

Denny Anspach
 

The basic information that these DT&I gons were BLACK came from Jim Hediger at Model Railroader, whose father worked for DT&I at a time also when son JIm was pretty alert to that railroad's equipment.

I certainly will not argue with documented primary information that they were in fact delivered in BCR. So…either memory is fallible, or…they were repainted black early in life.

But, just why would a railroad repaint a lowly gondola so early in life?

Important questions.

Denny


Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento CA

Re: sideframe photo

Benjamin Hom
 

Tony Thompson asked:
"Recently someone posted a link to one of the OWI photos (probably John Vachon) in Chicago, with lots of truck sideframes tacked in the foregrund. I must have deleted it by mistake. Can someone send the link again?"

"Freight cars being maneuvered in a Chicago and Northwestern railroad yard, Chicago, Ill.", Jack Delano, December 1942.


Ben Hom

sideframe photo

Tony Thompson
 

Recently someone posted a link to one of the OWI photos (probably John Vachon) in Chicago, with lots of truck sideframes tacked in the foregrund. I must have deleted it by mistake. Can someone send the link again? Thanks in advance.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: A New Material: High Gravity Compound Plastic

Spen Kellogg <spninetynine@...>
 

On 2/22/2016 3:53 PM, Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
Since we are nearly 200 years into the industrial revolution, much stuff has been around for awhile.

I remember using Devcon "Plastic Steel", a steel metal filled 2-ton slow curing epoxy. I found it useful for pigmenting the white 2-ton epoxy, which I used by the case back then, to any shade of gray from near-white to pure black. I found the cured parts to show no noticeable physical difference from the white except for the obvious color change. The regular Devcon White 2-ton epoxy was also a filled epoxy, using fine sized particles of ground ceramic. This ceramic filler was the reason that white Devcon was brutal to micro-twist drill's longevity.

Back then I experimented with weighing underfloors by encapsulating metal weights within the mold with none of the metal exposed-it was 100% encapsulated. This added a bonus; in addition to the added weight, useful for empty gondolas, the thickness of the floor didn't change to accomadate the added weight. I wondered if the differential expansion rates for plastics and metal (both ferrous and non-ferous) would pose a cracking problem. I have examples which are over 20 years old with no apparent problems in both epoxy and polyurethane resins.
-
Andy,

I heard somewhere that Al Westerfield had done something like that with his first resin castings, the dark grey ones from his early days. If I am understanding things correctly, the dark grey resin was quite brittle in addition to dulling drill bits.I think when he moved to Tennessee he changed to a less brittle material, which is why the address on the box is worth checking. I can't swear that my memory is correct, so if someone knows differently, please jump in with a correction.

Spen Kellogg

A New Material: High Gravity Compound Plastic

Andy Carlson
 

Since we are nearly 200 years into the industrial revolution, much stuff has been around for awhile.

I remember using Devcon "Plastic Steel", a steel metal filled 2-ton slow curing epoxy. I found it useful for pigmenting the white 2-ton epoxy, which I used by the case back then, to any shade of gray from near-white to pure black. I found the cured parts to show no noticeable physical difference from the white except for the obvious color change. The regular Devcon White 2-ton epoxy was also a filled epoxy, using fine sized particles of ground ceramic. This ceramic filler was the reason that white Devcon was brutal to micro-twist drill's longevity.

Back then I experimented with weighing underfloors by encapsulating metal weights within the mold with none of the metal exposed-it was 100% encapsulated. This added a bonus; in addition to the added weight, useful for empty gondolas, the thickness of the floor didn't change to accomadate the added weight. I wondered if the differential expansion rates for plastics and metal (both ferrous and non-ferous) would pose a cracking problem. I have examples which are over 20 years old with no apparent problems in both epoxy and polyurethane resins.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



From: "Richard Townsend richtownsend@... [STMFC]"

 
I agree that HGC plastics could be useful for underframes and floors. It has the potential to eliminate the need for weights altogether. I wonder how easy is it to drill in HGC plastic and what glues will work with it for adding details. Perhaps the high cost of HGC plastics is what is holding back manufacturers.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Feb 22, 2016 12:27 pm
Subject: [STMFC] A New Material: High Gravity Compound Plastic

 
The March 2016 issue of the NMRA Magazine (formerly the Bulletin) has a review of Kadee’s HO scale truck with electrical pickup. The article states that the truck are made from a "high gravity compound" plastic material which “weighs nearly the same as metal trucks”.
 
Huh?
 
A Google search produced hits for several companies already in the high gravity compound (HGC) business plus this somewhat technical explanation of the material:
 
 
The Kadee website offers HGC trucks minus the electrical pickup feature. A number of truck styles with either Code 110 standard wheels or Code 88 semi-scale wheels are offered:
 
 
I would think this material is a good option for flatcar frames and car floors.
 
Anyone have experience with HGC in model railroading?
 
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: A New Material: High Gravity Compound Plastic

Richard Townsend
 

I agree that HGC plastics could be useful for underframes and floors. It has the potential to eliminate the need for weights altogether. I wonder how easy is it to drill in HGC plastic and what glues will work with it for adding details. Perhaps the high cost of HGC plastics is what is holding back manufacturers.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Feb 22, 2016 12:27 pm
Subject: [STMFC] A New Material: High Gravity Compound Plastic

 
The March 2016 issue of the NMRA Magazine (formerly the Bulletin) has a review of Kadee’s HO scale truck with electrical pickup. The article states that the truck are made from a "high gravity compound" plastic material which “weighs nearly the same as metal trucks”.
 
Huh?
 
A Google search produced hits for several companies already in the high gravity compound (HGC) business plus this somewhat technical explanation of the material:
 
 
The Kadee website offers HGC trucks minus the electrical pickup feature. A number of truck styles with either Code 110 standard wheels or Code 88 semi-scale wheels are offered:
 
 
I would think this material is a good option for flatcar frames and car floors.
 
Anyone have experience with HGC in model railroading?
 
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Re: A New Material: High Gravity Compound Plastic

Brian Carlson
 

To answer Bob's question. Yes it helps for lightweight cars. Now if they would only update their 2D-F8 truck to HGC.


Brian J. Carlson

On Feb 22, 2016, at 4:26 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Kadee has been producing trucks with this material for at least five =
years, and they mention it in their ads. It's hardly new.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-

Re: A New Material: High Gravity Compound Plastic

Tony Thompson
 

      Kadee has been producing trucks with this material for at least five years, and they mention it in their ads. It's hardly new.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history




A New Material: High Gravity Compound Plastic

thecitrusbelt@...
 

The March 2016 issue of the NMRA Magazine (formerly the Bulletin) has a review of Kadee’s HO scale truck with electrical pickup. The article states that the truck are made from a "high gravity compound" plastic material which “weighs nearly the same as metal trucks”.

 

Huh?

 

A Google search produced hits for several companies already in the high gravity compound (HGC) business plus this somewhat technical explanation of the material:

 

http://www.ptonline.com/articles/now-they-want-plastics-to-be-heavy

 

The Kadee website offers HGC trucks minus the electrical pickup feature. A number of truck styles with either Code 110 standard wheels or Code 88 semi-scale wheels are offered:

 

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/HO-Scale%20Trucks.htm

 

I would think this material is a good option for flatcar frames and car floors.

 

Anyone have experience with HGC in model railroading?

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA