Date   

Re: Trucks

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

 

Charge $15.95 for it :-) I'm sure folks in this crowd would
be happy to pay for an accurate Chrysler truck!


        Gee, Tim, at least SOME of us are far hungrier for HGC  Vulcans and Andrews trucks first. The Chrysler truck wasn't used all that widely, and besides, we now have a way to model them with the Dando castings. I did go through Richard Hendrickson's solution for any kind of "real sprung" trucks, to remove the springs, add a small square of styrene to hold the bolster in location, then harvest some cast springs from another "rigid" truck to glue into the hole in the sideframe. Not especially eager to do all that again, though I have to say, it does work and does look FAR better.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Trucks

Tim O'Connor
 

Sam

Charge $15.95 for it :-) I'm sure folks in this crowd would
be happy to pay for an accurate Chrysler truck!



At 2/26/2016 02:19 PM Friday, you wrote:


Hello group,
 
We're paying attention to these truck comments so don't loose hope. Presently, new trucks are an "as time allows" project but hopefully we'll get around to doing more trucks in our HGC material.  However, the Chrysler truck is questionable. We looked at doing this truck but the protruding shock absorber is problematic with simple mold making. To make it look right it would require a complicated slide to do the detail behind the top of the shock absorber or a separate snap in (or glued in) part and this would certainly add to the cost of the truck. If you plan ahead with enough foresight, truck molds are made with inserts that can be changed out for the different sideframes but with the extended shock absorber a new mold or at least a new additional mold for the separate piece will have to be made.

Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products


Re: 36-foot box car data files

destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <fgexbill@...> wrote :

Wouldn't it be great if Dennis could post some photos of their progress w/these kits so far just to wet our appetites?!

Bill Welch
=============

Ask and you shall receive, Bill. Too bad it doesn't look much like a boxcar, but the roof shows pretty well. The cavities are polished and just finished assembling the body mold today, in preparation for "spotting"... closing the mold on the bench with dabs of Prussian blue high spot paste on all the mating surfaces as a final check that all the mechanics actually mate up as intended before it goes in the press for test shots, next week or as soon as we have press time. Then, on to the floor and details.

When Mike approves the photo it should be in this album:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/STMFC/photos/albums/1341047430

 

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.
 


Cast resin HO Type 30 tanks available again

Tom Madden
 

I have a couple dozen cast resin HO Type 30 tank shell sets (upper & lower) available, photo here:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/Type_30_Replacement_tank_1.jpg


These can be replacements for the injection molded tanks included in the Sunshine Type 30 kits, or the basis for a Tangent Type 30 kitbash as featured in a recent blog post by Frank Hodina:

GATX Type 30 tank car project

 

Frank did the pattern, and if you've ever tried to rework the Intermountain tank included in the Sunshine kit you know what a massive amount of work this replacement tank will save. New, larger dome and saddle, tank bands removed and missing tank-top rivets replaced, holes spotted for handrail posts...


These are $12 each plus a flat $4 for shipping regardless of quantity. Contact me OFF LIST (that would be OFF LIST!!!) at pullmanboss (at) yahoo (dod) com.


Thanks,


Tom Madden


Re: GATC Lightweight Box Cars

Ed Hawkins
 


On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:48 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

      I don't know the color, but have seen a B&W print of GABX 1940, which was a dark color with white lettering.

Tony,
Yes, I have that photo, and I’ve also seen the car in trade-publication ads.

It’s hard to say if the cars were mineral brown as was common during the late 1930s with white stencils or if GATC decided to use a "more-spiffy” scheme, especially since they displayed GABX 1940 at the 1939 N.Y World’s Fair. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: GATC Lightweight Box Cars

Tony Thompson
 

Ed Hawkins wrote:

 

I agree, but what I’m seeking is information on how the two cars (GABX 1939-1940) were painted. 


      I don't know the color, but have seen a B&W print of GABX 1940, which was a dark color with white lettering.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: GATC Lightweight Box Cars

Ed Hawkins
 


On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:10 AM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

I believe this should read ". . . utilized high-strength low-alloy steel . . ." These materials are often called "HSLA" for short.

Tony,
I agree, but what I’m seeking is information on how the two cars (GABX 1939-1940) were painted. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Chrysler Trucks

mwbauers
 

Sorry friend, as I wrote, the like was an example. As I included working with prototype as an example….


What you think I was thinking is just wrong…..


Only a fool would go with just the information in just one picture. The wise fellow will get the bulk of that wanted information from other photos and whatever. Optical comparison of similar standard journal boxes as one factor. Standard cast sidewall dimensions then projected into the image at scale of such [prototype] parts would be another.

To assume otherwise is just being short-sighted.

By my projection, you are telling me that the reason so few do it this way, is that they can’t work out ways of surpassing the first problem they encounter in the attempt. 

Think of it as the low end or mid-range of photo-based reverse engineering.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Feb 26, 2016, at 12:41 PM, Tony Thompson  wrote:


Mike Bauers wrote:

 

When a shot is all that exists on/of a target item, you take into consideration the points you bring up and your drawing or file that must be made, takes that into account.
Those points and flaws were considered, long before they were brought up here.
So, adjusting for that….. would it work well enough?


      MIke, perhaps it would be good to stop and think before posting. The photo you provided is of a MODEL, and very often model parts reflect compromises with the prototype. That makes ANY model something that needs careful checking before rushing ahead with a copy. Second point, the photo is a dead flat elevation view, which shows NOTHING of the three-dimensional angle of the shock absorber or of the depth of the spring mount. I would regard that particular shot as exactly useless for this purpose. And third, there DOES exist a drawing and good, angled photo (both in the 49-51 Cyc), for the truck we are discussing, though I think you are trying to address a larger topic.
       Your statement that these "points and flaws were considered, long before" . . . cannot be serious, unless your definition of "considered" is different than mine.
       I am not disagreeing with your suggestion that there may be some information, relatively poor, which might be a starting point, for any project. But to extend that point to suggest proceeding with 3-D modeling, using just the poor information, seems naive at best. My view is that if the poor info is all you have, you DON'T proceed until better material comes along. And yeah, sometimes that means you don't proceed. You've heard of GIGO.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Trucks

SamClarke
 

Hello group,
 
We're paying attention to these truck comments so don't loose hope. Presently, new trucks are an "as time allows" project but hopefully we'll get around to doing more trucks in our HGC material.  However, the Chrysler truck is questionable. We looked at doing this truck but the protruding shock absorber is problematic with simple mold making. To make it look right it would require a complicated slide to do the detail behind the top of the shock absorber or a separate snap in (or glued in) part and this would certainly add to the cost of the truck. If you plan ahead with enough foresight, truck molds are made with inserts that can be changed out for the different sideframes but with the extended shock absorber a new mold or at least a new additional mold for the separate piece will have to be made.

Sam Clarke
Kadee Quality Products

Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Trucks

 

     Speaking of trucks, I just completed a new blog post, describing a way to make the Chrysler FR5-D trucks in HO scale, with a superb casting by Ross Dando. If you're interested, here is a link to that blog post:



Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Chrysler Trucks

Tim O'Connor
 

Ross Dando/Twinstar makes the resin parts and they are indeed
very well done. You get a truck that's not 100% but it has the
"look and feel" of the prototype. :-)

Tim O'Connor

If I had seen those castings for the Chrysler shock absorber/spring pack at the Cocoa Beach show, I would have purchased some, as they look excellent and are really useful.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Railroad paint subsitutes?

Curt Fortenberry
 


As an aside, some acrylics, like Tamiya, are still flammable (says so on the jar and the MSDS).  I know here in the US you can still ship them ground (US Mail), or pay higher hazmat fees for UPS and Fedex.

Curt Fortenberry


Re: Railroad paint subsitutes?

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

There's nothing of much use to the American modeler in the Humbrol range apart from the weathering paints.
Paul 




Sent from Samsung mobile

"mail@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Hello,

Have you tried Humbrol paints, now owned by Hornby?  They are made in Europe and should be available most anywhere over there. Many years ago I used Humbrol paints for military modeling and back then they had a huge selection of colors.

Sam Clarke R&D

Kadee Quality Products


Re: Chrysler Trucks

Tony Thompson
 

Mike Bauers wrote:

 

When a shot is all that exists on/of a target item, you take into consideration the points you bring up and your drawing or file that must be made, takes that into account.
Those points and flaws were considered, long before they were brought up here.
So, adjusting for that….. would it work well enough?


      MIke, perhaps it would be good to stop and think before posting. The photo you provided is of a MODEL, and very often model parts reflect compromises with the prototype. That makes ANY model something that needs careful checking before rushing ahead with a copy. Second point, the photo is a dead flat elevation view, which shows NOTHING of the three-dimensional angle of the shock absorber or of the depth of the spring mount. I would regard that particular shot as exactly useless for this purpose. And third, there DOES exist a drawing and good, angled photo (both in the 49-51 Cyc), for the truck we are discussing, though I think you are trying to address a larger topic.
       Your statement that these "points and flaws were considered, long before" . . . cannot be serious, unless your definition of "considered" is different than mine.
       I am not disagreeing with your suggestion that there may be some information, relatively poor, which might be a starting point, for any project. But to extend that point to suggest proceeding with 3-D modeling, using just the poor information, seems naive at best. My view is that if the poor info is all you have, you DON'T proceed until better material comes along. And yeah, sometimes that means you don't proceed. You've heard of GIGO.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: What if ?? Re: Re: ] Chrysler Trucks

Benjamin Hom
 

Mike Bauers wrote:
"Those points and flaws were considered, long before they were brought up here."

Were they? You're making a huge ASSumption that the original vendor did his/her homework.

Consider the Athearn knockoffs of the 1960s and 1970s that perpetuated all of the errors of the original models.



Ben Hom


Re: What if ?? Re: Re: ] Chrysler Trucks

mwbauers
 

I agree…..

But when you don’t have that tool…. nor access to one….

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi


> On Feb 26, 2016, at 12:08 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI  wrote:
> 
> Your best be would be a 3D laser scanner on a real Chrysler truck.
> 
> Thanks!
> --
> 
> Brian Ehni


Re: What if ?? Re: Re: ] Chrysler Trucks

caboose9792 <caboose9792@...>
 

Is there any examples still around?

Mark Rickert 



Powered by Cricket Wireless.


-------- Original message --------
From: "BRIAN PAUL EHNI bpehni@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date: 02/26/2016 12:08 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: What if ?? Re: [STMFC] Re: ] Chrysler Trucks

 

Your best be would be a 3D laser scanner on a real Chrysler truck.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Friday, February 26, 2016 at 11:56 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: What if ?? Re: [STMFC] Re: ] Chrysler Trucks

Mike,

No, for 3 reasons:
#1 NEVER model from models - there are both prototype photos and drawings available for this truck.
#2 The photo has quality issues such as blurriness and resolution.
#3, truck side frames are 3 dimensional and thus a single side-on shot is insufficient.

Regards

Bruce

Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:48 AM, STMFC@... wrote:

I wonder when this sort of rare item and modelers need topic pops up…..

If a picture like this

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/s3MAAOSwgQ9V36wV/s-l1600.jpg

as seen in the link is viable to remake as a scale drawing that goes to be a laser cut or 3d print final file ??? [If its a car side a laser project seems more likely]

The idea works best with a prototype shot where you’re not modeling a model and copying the models errors. But I see so many really good flat-on pictures in discussions of ‘where-can-I-find’ threads of the 'why don’t they make’ discussion themes.

And in those, it seems that the needed raw source is actually right in front of them, certainly when there are no existing in-production commercial models.

Assuming you have access to a laser cutter or 3d printer of your’s or another's, can it be easy enough to start with the photo? I’m assuming that who ever does the redraw or whatever needed graphics work from the photo is comfortable working with his choice of software to make his cut or print file.

Back to the truck side, the picture seems to enough to remake it, via re-draws with selective 3d lufting [sp?] and final scaling. Often its a similar real-world shot instead of a model shot.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Feb 26, 2016, at 3:25 AM, fred@janszholding. wrote:

Although a bit out of my price range, plus they're equipped with the oh so 'unprototypical' (according to some...) springs I like these too: http://www.ebay.com/itm/311522985459?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

When I find a car that ran in 1950 (the year I model), fitted with Chrysler trucks (any tips?) I'll score a set.
Cheers!
Fred 'WP' Jansz, The Netherlands

------------------------------------
Posted by: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...>
------------------------------------

------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: What if ?? Re: Re: ] Chrysler Trucks

mwbauers
 

However……

When a shot is all that exists on/of a target item, you take into consideration the points you bring up and your drawing or file that must be made, takes that into account.

Those points and flaws were considered, long before they were brought up here.

So, adjusting for that….. would it work well enough?

Remember, there are many modeling wants for which the official drawings can’t be located.

And so…...

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Feb 26, 2016, at 12:08 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI bpehni@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Your best be would be a 3D laser scanner on a real Chrysler truck.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Friday, February 26, 2016 at 11:56 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: What if ?? Re: [STMFC] Re: ] Chrysler Trucks

Mike,

No, for 3 reasons:
#1 NEVER model from models - there are both prototype photos and drawings available for this truck.
#2 The photo has quality issues such as blurriness and resolution.
#3, truck side frames are 3 dimensional and thus a single side-on shot is insufficient.

Regards

Bruce

Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:48 AM, STMFC@... wrote:

I wonder when this sort of rare item and modelers need topic pops up…..

If a picture like this

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/s3MAAOSwgQ9V36wV/s-l1600.jpg

as seen in the link is viable to remake as a scale drawing that goes to be a laser cut or 3d print final file ??? [If its a car side a laser project seems more likely]

The idea works best with a prototype shot where you’re not modeling a model and copying the models errors. But I see so many really good flat-on pictures in discussions of ‘where-can-I-find’ threads of the 'why don’t they make’ discussion themes.

And in those, it seems that the needed raw source is actually right in front of them, certainly when there are no existing in-production commercial models.

Assuming you have access to a laser cutter or 3d printer of your’s or another's, can it be easy enough to start with the photo? I’m assuming that who ever does the redraw or whatever needed graphics work from the photo is comfortable working with his choice of software to make his cut or print file.

Back to the truck side, the picture seems to enough to remake it, via re-draws with selective 3d lufting [sp?] and final scaling. Often its a similar real-world shot instead of a model shot.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Feb 26, 2016, at 3:25 AM, fred@janszholding. wrote:

Although a bit out of my price range, plus they're equipped with the oh so 'unprototypical' (according to some...) springs I like these too: http://www.ebay.com/itm/311522985459?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

When I find a car that ran in 1950 (the year I model), fitted with Chrysler trucks (any tips?) I'll score a set.
Cheers!
Fred 'WP' Jansz, The Netherlands


Re: What if ?? Re: Re: ] Chrysler Trucks

 

Your best be would be a 3D laser scanner on a real Chrysler truck.

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

From: STMFC List <STMFC@...> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Friday, February 26, 2016 at 11:56 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: Re: What if ?? Re: [STMFC] Re: ] Chrysler Trucks







Mike,

No, for 3 reasons:
#1 NEVER model from models - there are both prototype photos and drawings available for this truck.
#2 The photo has quality issues such as blurriness and resolution.
#3, truck side frames are 3 dimensional and thus a single side-on shot is insufficient.

Regards

Bruce



Bruce F. Smith

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."

On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:48 AM, STMFC@... wrote:

I wonder when this sort of rare item and modelers need topic pops up…..

If a picture like this

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/s3MAAOSwgQ9V36wV/s-l1600.jpg

as seen in the link is viable to remake as a scale drawing that goes to be a laser cut or 3d print final file ??? [If its a car side a laser project seems more likely]

The idea works best with a prototype shot where you’re not modeling a model and copying the models errors. But I see so many really good flat-on pictures in discussions of ‘where-can-I-find’ threads of the 'why don’t they make’ discussion themes.

And in those, it seems that the needed raw source is actually right in front of them, certainly when there are no existing in-production commercial models.

Assuming you have access to a laser cutter or 3d printer of your’s or another's, can it be easy enough to start with the photo? I’m assuming that who ever does the redraw or whatever needed graphics work from the photo is comfortable working with his choice of software to make his cut or print file.

Back to the truck side, the picture seems to enough to remake it, via re-draws with selective 3d lufting [sp?] and final scaling. Often its a similar real-world shot instead of a model shot.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Feb 26, 2016, at 3:25 AM, fred@janszholding. wrote:

Although a bit out of my price range, plus they're equipped with the oh so 'unprototypical' (according to some...) springs I like these too: http://www.ebay.com/itm/311522985459?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

When I find a car that ran in 1950 (the year I model), fitted with Chrysler trucks (any tips?) I'll score a set.
Cheers!
Fred 'WP' Jansz, The Netherlands


------------------------------------
Posted by: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links












[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: What if ?? Re: Re: ] Chrysler Trucks

Bruce Smith
 

Mike,
No, for 3 reasons:
#1 NEVER model from models - there are both prototype photos and drawings available for this truck.
#2 The photo has quality issues such as blurriness and resolution.
#3, truck side frames are 3 dimensional and thus a single side-on shot is insufficient.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Feb 26, 2016, at 11:48 AM, STMFC@... wrote:

I wonder when this sort of rare item and modelers need topic pops up…..

If a picture like this

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/s3MAAOSwgQ9V36wV/s-l1600.jpg

as seen in the link is viable to remake as a scale drawing that goes to be a laser cut or 3d print final file ??? [If its a car side a laser project seems more likely]

The idea works best with a prototype shot where you’re not modeling a model and copying the models errors. But I see so many really good flat-on pictures in discussions of ‘where-can-I-find’ threads of the 'why don’t they make’ discussion themes.

And in those, it seems that the needed raw source is actually right in front of them, certainly when there are no existing in-production commercial models.

Assuming you have access to a laser cutter or 3d printer of your’s or another's, can it be easy enough to start with the photo? I’m assuming that who ever does the redraw or whatever needed graphics work from the photo is comfortable working with his choice of software to make his cut or print file.

Back to the truck side, the picture seems to enough to remake it, via re-draws with selective 3d lufting [sp?] and final scaling. Often its a similar real-world shot instead of a model shot.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Feb 26, 2016, at 3:25 AM, fred@janszholding. wrote:

Although a bit out of my price range, plus they're equipped with the oh so 'unprototypical' (according to some...) springs I like these too: http://www.ebay.com/itm/311522985459?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

When I find a car that ran in 1950 (the year I model), fitted with Chrysler trucks (any tips?) I'll score a set.
Cheers!
Fred 'WP' Jansz, The Netherlands


------------------------------------
Posted by: Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...>
------------------------------------


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What if ?? Re: Re: ] Chrysler Trucks

mwbauers
 

I wonder when this sort of rare item and modelers need topic pops up…..

If a picture like this

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/s3MAAOSwgQ9V36wV/s-l1600.jpg

as seen in the link is viable to remake as a scale drawing that goes to be a laser cut or 3d print final file ??? [If its a car side a laser project seems more likely]

The idea works best with a prototype shot where you’re not modeling a model and copying the models errors. But I see so many really good flat-on pictures in discussions of ‘where-can-I-find’ threads of the 'why don’t they make’ discussion themes.

And in those, it seems that the needed raw source is actually right in front of them, certainly when there are no existing in-production commercial models.

Assuming you have access to a laser cutter or 3d printer of your’s or another's, can it be easy enough to start with the photo? I’m assuming that who ever does the redraw or whatever needed graphics work from the photo is comfortable working with his choice of software to make his cut or print file.

Back to the truck side, the picture seems to enough to remake it, via re-draws with selective 3d lufting [sp?] and final scaling. Often its a similar real-world shot instead of a model shot.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Feb 26, 2016, at 3:25 AM, fred@janszholding. wrote:

Although a bit out of my price range, plus they're equipped with the oh so 'unprototypical' (according to some...) springs I like these too: http://www.ebay.com/itm/311522985459?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

When I find a car that ran in 1950 (the year I model), fitted with Chrysler trucks (any tips?) I'll score a set.
Cheers!
Fred 'WP' Jansz, The Netherlands

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