Date   

Jack Spencer's MP '37 AAR 40' box car

Andy Carlson
 

My mileage definitely varied with your's, Tony.

I attended that clinic and I was introduced to Jack as I had never heard of him before.

He started out mentioning that he was in the dark concerning the brake piping and equipment locations and not giving up and faking it (we all do that, right?) he acquired the work orders from Pullman-standard and derived the layouts by the specified pipes which had lengths and bends called out. After he had all of the piping dimensions, he mocked them up to get the only arrangement which would work.

He also addressed the spacing screw-up the IMWX/RC and Intermountain 2 stringers had and corrected that problem. He removed all of the factory nubs and cored holes for the underframe locations. This work, plus the realistic weathering was a treat to see.

And to rub our noses a little bit more, he described using mylar for the brake component mounting brackets, plus the corner sill steps and the running board end supports.

That was the most enjoyable clinic I had ever attended up to that time, and years later NOTHING has eclipsed it for me.

I am looking forward to this year's Saint Louis RPM meet, partially to see more of Jack's work.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]"

 
Tim O'Connor wrote:

 
P.S. I attended one of Jack Spencer's clinics at Naperville where he showed
how to use the DETAILED equipment diagrams and drawings to faithfully model
a correct underframe. On almost ANY car you name it would take hours, maybe
days, of research and work to get the details exactly right for a prototype.
I remember Hendrickson was doing eye-rolls ! :-)

      And Richard wasn't the only one . . . I have huge admiration for Jack's underframe modeling, but it's one of those things that I have simply put to one side, so that other goals can be accomplished. Naturally YMMV.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







Underframes (Was C&NW riveted side 40' PS-1 box car)

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Tim,

Remember Byron Rose's wonderful 53' flatcar? It was my second resin kit, and I did the whole underframe faithfully, except for the retainer line. I just couldn't fit the piping into that little tiny space. I felt so guilty at the time. I still have that car, though it hasn't been out of its box in years.

Yours Aye,


Garth

On 2/29/16 5:54 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:

 



P.S. I attended one of Jack Spencer's clinics at Naperville where he showed
how to use the DETAILED equipment diagrams and drawings to faithfully model
a correct underframe. On almost ANY car you name it would take hours, maybe
days, of research and work to get the details exactly right for a prototype.
I remember Hendrickson was doing eye-rolls ! :-)



Re: Somewhat Enhanced kit C&NW riveted side 40' PS-1 box car

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

 

P.S. I attended one of Jack Spencer's clinics at Naperville where he showed
how to use the DETAILED equipment diagrams and drawings to faithfully model
a correct underframe. On almost ANY car you name it would take hours, maybe
days, of research and work to get the details exactly right for a prototype.
I remember Hendrickson was doing eye-rolls ! :-)


      And Richard wasn't the only one . . . I have huge admiration for Jack's underframe modeling, but it's one of those things that I have simply put to one side, so that other goals can be accomplished. Naturally YMMV.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: Somewhat Enhanced kit C&NW riveted side 40' PS-1 box car

Tim O'Connor
 

Ah!

Andy, at this point in my life I'm not sweating stringers -- Ever since
IMWX screwed up the stringers on their otherwise perfect 1937 AAR box car
(and copied by other manufacturers!) I decided that I would have to forego
correct stringers on freight cars unless I just got really lucky.

I knew some pre-1950 PS-1 box cars had AAR underframes and I know there
were subtle changes to PS-1 underframes after 1950, but in general if the
kit is wrong, I just leave it that way. Many Sunshine kits have underframe
errors or omissions too, so resin kits are no panacea either.

On the rail-trail where I walk & bike, there is a 50 foot former B&M PS-1
box car standing on its end (it was put there for local fire fighter practice)
and I can tell you there are some steel castings that are not found on ANY
PS-1 model I have ever seen. Oh, well!

Tim O'Connor

P.S. I attended one of Jack Spencer's clinics at Naperville where he showed
how to use the DETAILED equipment diagrams and drawings to faithfully model
a correct underframe. On almost ANY car you name it would take hours, maybe
days, of research and work to get the details exactly right for a prototype.
I remember Hendrickson was doing eye-rolls ! :-)




You asked about the differences of the PS-1 and AAR underframes.
I don't think any of the PS-1 box car underframes had the 4 diagonal pressed steel structural members which went from the bolster/center sill area to the outside corners such as found on the AAR design underframes (Red Caboose and Intermountain).

Earlier PS-1 cars had 2 stringers per side extending the whole length of the car, end sill to end sill. Later, the underframes went to 3 stringers per side with only 2 of them going end sill to end sill. With some styrene strips the Intermountain's underframe, with the closely spaced pair of stringers, can acquire the 3rd stringer and will be close to the correct spacing. The 2 stringers between the bolster and end sill would require more work. The diagonal structural pieces mentioned earlier would need to be carved off before the 2 pair of styrene stringers were added.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: mid 30's ORER help - CPR 23xxxx series SS boxcars

Eric Lombard
 

Rob, I have sent you the data off site.

Eric

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 12:43 PM, Robert Kirkham rdkirkham@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Hi there I’m trying to complete a history on these cars.  Unfortunately, right around the interesting time when the railway was starting to re-build the cars (without grain hoppers at the side doors), I have an ORER vacuum from 1932 to April 1938.  In 1932, there was one car series, 230000 to 233499; all had the grain hoppers.  By April 1938, 415 cars are without grain hoppers, di! stributed in three number series without clear distinguishing features, as follows (hoping Yahoo preserves enough formatting):

ORER            construction                    number series             IL            IW      IH      No.Cars

April 1938      steel Frame, Hopper Doors       230000 233499      40  6      8  6    9  0         3057

April 1938      steel frame                     234000 234049      40  6      8  6    9  0    50

April 1938      steel frame                     234900 234914      40  6      8  6    9  0    15

April 1938      steel frame                     235000 235599      40  6      8  6    9  0    350

If anyone can help identify when each of the later three number series approx. first appears in the ORERs, plus the number of cars in the series at that time, it would sure help.

Thanks in advance

Rob Kirkham



Re: I need an HO scale flat car

Aaron Heaney
 

You could use the F&C PRR FM flatcar with the AMB wood deck it builds into a very nice car very easy.

Aaron Heaney


On Monday, February 29, 2016 12:15 PM, "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Demetre Argiro asked:
"I want to build a flat car with a load of steel plates on it. I have everything but the car. What I want is an approximately 40' car with a real wood deck; something suitable for 1945 - 1949 period. Is there such a model available? It can have K or AB brakes, but no truss rods and no arch bar trucks. It also needs to be a legitimate prototype that I can find photos of to do detailing."

Bruce Smith replied:
"​Sunshine had quite a few interesting flat cars of this size, but of course, the problem is availability now that they are out of business. I tried to stick to cars currently in production, or readily available (Red Caboose) ;)"

Bruce brings up a good point as this thread is rapidly becoming a "find me another rock" exercise - pretty soon, you'll have everyone chiming in with every 40 ft HO scale flatcar model on the market.

To the original poster:
Request you narrow the scope of your question. Some questions to help frame what you're looking for:
- Any particular road or region? How far are you willing to go in regards to availability?
- How much work are you willing to put into the model? Relatively few are available out of the box with real wood decks, but most models can be retrofitted with aftermarket wood decks or board by board decks with some work.
- How are you going about doing the steel plates? Are you working from a photo? If so, why not the car in the photo?

Ben Hom



Re: mid 30's ORER help - CPR 23xxxx series SS boxcars

greg kennelly
 

Hi Rob,

The July 1935 ORER shows 3430 cars with hopper doors in series 230000 - 234999 and 50 cars without hopper doors in series 234000 - 234599 - the number of cars in this group is shown as an increase since the previous issue (presumably April 1935, which I don't have) plus ONE car without hopper doors in series 235000 - 235599. All show as steel frame, 40-6 IL, 8-6 IW, 9-0 IH, 3098 CU FT.

Cheers,
Greg Kennelly
Burnaby, BC


Re: Somewhat Enhanced kit C&NW riveted side 40' PS-1 box car

David Sieber
 

Gentlemen, per the Detailing Chronology on page 58 of RPCyc #1, the underframes on early PS-1s built through 1949 had AAR welded underframes with two stringers; the Pullman-Standard proprietary underframe was first applied in 1950, with three stringers.  That table is an invaluable resource to modelers of early PS-1s.  HRH, Dave Sieber, Reno NV 



 

 

 

 











 

 

 




Re: Somewhat Enhanced kit C&NW riveted side 40' PS-1 box car

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Andy,

In an old message from the freightcars group, Tim O'Connor noted that the 1948 C&O PS-1s had AAR-style underframes. These would have been C&O 15000-15999, with 6' doors. Perhaps some of the other early production also had these underframes.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 2/29/16 8:59 AM, Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC] wrote:

 
Tim-
You asked about the differences of the PS-1 and AAR underframes.
I don't think any of the PS-1 box car underframes had the 4 diagonal pressed steel structural members which went from the bolster/center sill area to the outside corners such as found on the AAR design underframes (Red Caboose and Intermountain).

Earlier PS-1 cars had 2 stringers per side extending the whole length of the car, end sill to end sill. Later, the underframes went to 3 stringers per side with only 2 of them going end sill to end sill. With some styrene strips the Intermountain's underframe, with the closely spaced pair of stringers, can acquire the 3rd stringer and will be close to the correct spacing. The 2 stringers between the bolster and end sill would require more work. The diagonal structural pieces mentioned earlier would need to be carved off before the 2 pair of styrene stringers were added.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




Re: mid 30's ORER help - CPR 23xxxx series SS boxcars

Eric Lombard
 

"I have an ORER vacuum from 1932 to April 1938"

Rob, I can give you the data for one issue each for 1933, '34, '35, '36, 37. I'm not at home at the moment and will do so later today if someone else has not yet done that for you.

Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 12:43 PM, Robert Kirkham rdkirkham@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Hi there I’m trying to complete a history on these cars.  Unfortunately, right around the interesting time when the railway was starting to re-build the cars (without grain hoppers at the side doors), I have an ORER vacuum from 1932 to April 1938.  In 1932, there was one car series, 230000 to 233499; all had the grain hoppers.  By April 1938, 415 cars are without grain hoppers, di! stributed in three number series without clear distinguishing features, as follows (hoping Yahoo preserves enough formatting):

ORER            construction                    number series             IL            IW      IH      No.Cars

April 1938      steel Frame, Hopper Doors       230000 233499      40  6      8  6    9  0         3057

April 1938      steel frame                     234000 234049      40  6      8  6    9  0    50

April 1938      steel frame                     234900 234914      40  6      8  6    9  0    15

April 1938      steel frame                     235000 235599      40  6      8  6    9  0    350

If anyone can help identify when each of the later three number series approx. first appears in the ORERs, plus the number of cars in the series at that time, it would sure help.

Thanks in advance

Rob Kirkham



Re: mid 30's ORER help - CPR 23xxxx series SS boxcars

Dave Parker
 

Rob: 

OFF-LIST, I sent you an excerpt from my 1935 ORER about 45 minutes ago.  But, in the past I have experienced a glitch or two with Yahoo mail when switching from group to private.

Please advise if you did not receive, and I will route it you from a different account.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Re: mid 30's ORER help - CPR 23xxxx series SS boxcars

A&Y Dave in MD
 

On Feb 29, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Robert Kirkham rdkirkham@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Hi there I’m trying to complete a history on these cars.  Unfortunately, right around the interesting time when the railway was starting to re-build the cars (without grain hoppers at the side doors), I have an ORER vacuum from 1932 to April 1938.  In 1932, there was one car series, 230000 to 233499; all had the grain hoppers.  By April 1938, 415 cars are without grain hoppers, distributed in three number series without clear distinguishing ! features, as follows (hoping Yahoo preserves enough formatting):

ORER            construction                    number series             IL            IW      IH      No.Cars

April 1938      steel Frame, Hopper Doors       230000 233499      40  6      8  6    9  0         3057

April 1938      steel frame                     234000 234049      40  6      8  6    9  0    50

April 1938      steel frame                     234900 234914      40  6      8  6    9  0    15

April 1938      steel frame                     235000 235599      40  6      8  6    9  0    350

If anyone can help identify when each of the later three number series approx. first appears in the ORERs, plus the number of cars in the series at that time, it would sure help.

Thanks in advance

Rob Kirkham


Re: mid 30's ORER help - CPR 23xxxx series SS boxcars

Tony Thompson
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:

 

Hi there I’m trying to complete a history on these cars.  Unfortunately, right around the interesting time when the railway was starting to re-build the cars (without grain hoppers at the side doors), I have an ORER vacuum from 1932 to April 1938.  


Presumably on account of the Depression, the ORER greatly reduced frequency from about 1932 until 1937, barely an issue a year. And though it had been monthly before 1932, it returned as a quarterly.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





mid 30's ORER help - CPR 23xxxx series SS boxcars

Robert kirkham
 

Hi there I’m trying to complete a history on these cars.  Unfortunately, right around the interesting time when the railway was starting to re-build the cars (without grain hoppers at the side doors), I have an ORER vacuum from 1932 to April 1938.  In 1932, there was one car series, 230000 to 233499; all had the grain hoppers.  By April 1938, 415 cars are without grain hoppers, distributed in three number series without clear distinguishing features, as follows (hoping Yahoo preserves enough formatting):

ORER            construction                    number series             IL            IW      IH      No.Cars

April 1938      steel Frame, Hopper Doors       230000 233499      40  6      8  6    9  0         3057

April 1938      steel frame                     234000 234049      40  6      8  6    9  0    50

April 1938      steel frame                     234900 234914      40  6      8  6    9  0    15

April 1938      steel frame                     235000 235599      40  6      8  6    9  0    350

If anyone can help identify when each of the later three number series approx. first appears in the ORERs, plus the number of cars in the series at that time, it would sure help.

Thanks in advance

Rob Kirkham


Re: I need an HO scale flat car

Benjamin Hom
 

Demetre Argiro asked:
"I want to build a flat car with a load of steel plates on it. I have everything but the car. What I want is an approximately 40' car with a real wood deck; something suitable for 1945 - 1949 period. Is there such a model available? It can have K or AB brakes, but no truss rods and no arch bar trucks. It also needs to be a legitimate prototype that I can find photos of to do detailing."

Bruce Smith replied:
"​Sunshine had quite a few interesting flat cars of this size, but of course, the problem is availability now that they are out of business. I tried to stick to cars currently in production, or readily available (Red Caboose) ;)"

Bruce brings up a good point as this thread is rapidly becoming a "find me another rock" exercise - pretty soon, you'll have everyone chiming in with every 40 ft HO scale flatcar model on the market.


To the original poster:
Request you narrow the scope of your question. Some questions to help frame what you're looking for:
- Any particular road or region? How far are you willing to go in regards to availability?
- How much work are you willing to put into the model? Relatively few are available out of the box with real wood decks, but most models can be retrofitted with aftermarket wood decks or board by board decks with some work.
- How are you going about doing the steel plates? Are you working from a photo? If so, why not the car in the photo?



Ben Hom


Re: I need an HO scale flat car

Bruce Smith
 

​Sunshine had quite a few interesting flat cars of this size, but of course, the problem is availability now that they are out of business.  I tried to stick to cars currently in production, or readily available (Red Caboose) ;)


Regards

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... on behalf of John Barry northbaylines@... [STMFC]
Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 10:34 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] I need an HO scale flat car
 


Bruce beat me to the Tichy kit recommendation, but you can add the Sunshine kit of the Santa Fe Ft-G.  If you want a longer flat, you have a lot of additional choices for the post WWII time frame.  
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] I need an HO scale flat car

 
Demeter,

Lots of options, especially if you are willing to add a board by board deck yourself (which is quite easy to do).  These include (but by no means are limited to):

Resin:
Southern’s 41’6” flats - http://srha.net/public/Modeling/41ft_flatcar.asp
PRR FM flat and B&O’s nearly identical P-11 flat - F&C (Laser cut woods decks available from LaserKit/American Model Builders)

Plastic kits:
Red Caboose’s 42’ flat (many prototypes but beware lots of foobie road names)



Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Feb 28, 2016, at 10:49 PM, STMFC@... wrote:

I want to build a flat car with a load of steel plates on it. I have everything but the car. What I want is an approximately 40' car with a real wood deck; something suitable for 1945 - 1949 period. Is there such a model available? It can have K or AB brakes, but no truss rods and no arch bar trucks. It also needs to be a legitimate prototype that I can find photos of to do detailing.
Thanx,
Demetre Argiro
Grayson, GA.

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Posted by: argirode@...
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Re: I need an HO scale flat car

John Barry
 

Bruce beat me to the Tichy kit recommendation, but you can add the Sunshine kit of the Santa Fe Ft-G.  If you want a longer flat, you have a lot of additional choices for the post WWII time frame.  
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] I need an HO scale flat car

 
Demeter,

Lots of options, especially if you are willing to add a board by board deck yourself (which is quite easy to do).  These include (but by no means are limited to):

Resin:
Southern’s 41’6” flats - http://srha.net/public/Modeling/41ft_flatcar.asp
PRR FM flat and B&O’s nearly identical P-11 flat - F&C (Laser cut woods decks available from LaserKit/American Model Builders)

Plastic kits:
Red Caboose’s 42’ flat (many prototypes but beware lots of foobie road names)



Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Feb 28, 2016, at 10:49 PM, STMFC@... wrote:

I want to build a flat car with a load of steel plates on it. I have everything but the car. What I want is an approximately 40' car with a real wood deck; something suitable for 1945 - 1949 period. Is there such a model available? It can have K or AB brakes, but no truss rods and no arch bar trucks. It also needs to be a legitimate prototype that I can find photos of to do detailing.
Thanx,
Demetre Argiro
Grayson, GA.

------------------------------------
Posted by: argirode@...
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Re: Covered Hoppers - for Cement

Doug Pillow
 

These were probably loaded cars supplying the cement necessary for the production of concrete blocks. The different roads of the cars could be explained by the block company shopping for best price, cement coming from different sources.

                                                                                                                                Doug Pillow


Re: I need an HO scale flat car

hubert mask
 

I offer the chad boas flat car that gives you three options of decals to purchase for the Southern railway.  One of which is black as delivered

Visit my web  mask island decals.com

Hubert Mask. 


On Feb 29, 2016, at 8:12 AM, 'Nelson Moyer' ku0a@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Chad Boaz has several prototype flat cars as resin kits with a wood deck. Jerry Hamsmith offers the CB&Q FM-14 flat car with wood floor as resin kits. You can also find several kits from Furaro and Camerlingo, but I don’t know if they have wood floors.

Nelson Moyer

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2016 10:50 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] I need an HO scale flat car

I want to build a flat car with a load of steel plates on it. I have everything but the car. What I want is an approximately 40' car with a real wood deck; something suitable for 1945 - 1949 period. Is there such a model available? It can have K or AB brakes, but no truss rods and no arch bar trucks. It also needs to be a legitimate prototype that I can find photos of to do detailing.
Thanx,
Demetre Argiro
Grayson, GA.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


car data on-line ?

mwbauers
 

I would like a recommendation for an online reference site where I can punch in a car and get data that includes its build date.

as an example, I would like to know about PHMX-4409, a car I have known for years.

thanks guys.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

56001 - 56020 of 196779