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Re: The History of Shipping Bulk Cement
mark_landgraf
Prior to the bulk loading of cement, it was shipped in bags in box cars. Many of this countries transcontinental highways, built in the 1920s were built this way. In the 1935-1937 is when dedicated fleet of covered hoppers and cement bulk containers started showing up. NE Pennsylvania was the starting area. These dedicated cars had steep slope sheet - about 80 degrees - that provided easier self unloading of the dense cement. A retrofitted coal hopper - with 120 degree slope sheets - did not self unload very well. Much cement needed to be either vibrated out or manually assisted out of the cars. This why the retro cars did not catch on. The RRs bought the dedicated covered hoppers. Distance shipped - every ton mile costs money. The closest suitable product will be the cheapest. You would only buy a premium product if you needed a premium product, but even then the closest will likely be the cheapest. Mark Landgraf Albany NY Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network.
Hi all,
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DESPERATELY SEEKING DECALS
WILLIAM PARDIE
I am trying to find a Microscale decal set #87239. This is for Southern Pacific copvered hoppers. Need two sets.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Bill Pardie
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Re: P2K 10K tank car replacement railing
Tony Thompson
Fenton Wells wrote:
I agree with Al Brown's recommendation. I use the DA brass wire, which is indeed 0.019 inches. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: P2K 10K tank car replacement railing
Thanks Al, and by the way I was inspired by your tank car clinic in Cocoa this year. I'll give it a try. I have some .19 from Detail associates i think
On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 8:21 PM, abrown@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
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Re: P2K 10K tank car replacement railing
al_brown03
Hi Fenton, I don't know of a source for replacement handrails made specifically for the P2K tank. But in general, I find that plastic tank-car handrails (like plastic sill steps) don't long survive contact with my three left elbows and two right thumbs. In my hands, wire handrails are far more durable. To replace the P2K handrail you'll need handrails and joiners and stanchions. Precision Scale #32110 stanchions are beautiful; for handrails, I've been using .015" OD phosphor-bronze wire (PB holds its shape better than brass), joined with .016" ID plastic tubing from smallparts.com. Tony Thompson points out that my handrail is really too light: should be .019" OD. I don't know of a source of .019" PB wire, but Tichy supplies .020"; if I can find .021" ID tubing, I'll try it. The stanchions will need to be drilled to accept wire that large. Ted Culotta uses a related technique, described in one of his RMC articles: joins handrails with *steel* tubing, cut with a cut-off disc in a Dremel tool. (If the tube is steel it needn't fit quite so tightly on the handrail.) I lack Ted's skill with a Dremel, have tried it and failed. Others think it isn't a big deal, though. YMMV -- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.
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Re: The History of Shipping Bulk Cement
Jim here is the M&StL cement hopper purchase history. 1940 buy-new 10 cov hoppers 70051 to 70069 29'-3" 140,000 cement service GA 1947 buy-new 50 cov hoppers 70101 to 70199 29'-3" 140,000 cement service P-S 1955 buy-new 40 cov hoppers 70201 to 70279 29'-3" 140,000 cement service P-S 1956 buy-new 50 cov hoppers 70301 to 70399 29'-3" 140,000 cement service P-S 1957 buy-new 100 cov hoppers 70401 to 70599 29'-3" 140,000 cement service P-S
As you can an early purchase let to major purchase after WWII, then major purchases in the mid 50’s.
The M&StL served two cement plants in Mason City IA, most production going north into Minnesota. Minnesota being one of the few states with out deposits suitable for making cement. The M&StL also served two cement plants in Des Moines IA, which served the central Iowa area.
Doug Harding
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P2K 10K tank car replacement railing
Does anyone have a replacement handrail for a P2K 10K gal tank car or who has them to sell? I couldn't find them at Walthers. Or suggestions for making a replacement. Thanks in advance Fenton Wells
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Re: canopy cement/plastic kit from hell
thmsdmpsy
I think you need to clean the mold release from the kit, my felt greasy so that's what I did. Tom Dempsey, Spokane, WA
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Re: The History of Shipping Bulk Cement
Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
Jim,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
There were wooden covered hoppers as early as the 1890s, and special steel cars in the 1920s. Checked my Gregg Cyclopedias: Greenville built small 50-ton hoppers for the Erie in 1934. The PRR H30 car dates from around 1935, as does the B&O N31. There are some other cars that date from the late 1930s like some home-built WM cars from 1937. I see NYC Enterprise cars from 1939, L&NE drop-frame cars from 1938 and the NKP bought AC&F 70-ton cars in 1939. That seems like the watershed year. Does this help? Yours Aye, Garth Groff
On 3/3/16 2:03 PM, jimbetz
jimbetz@... [STMFC] wrote:
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Re: The History of Shipping Bulk Cement
Ray Breyer
Common? Mid to late 1930s. The AMC roads were buying them as-needed to cover increased concrete production for WPA projects all over the Great Lakes region. They were also converting plain hoppers into LOs for the same traffic. The Nickel Plate started converting USRA twins into covered hoppers, and by 1936 had converted 40 of them to dry cement cars (and another 19 for dolomite or soda ash). They bought 50 new LOs in 1937 and 1939 for cement service. The W&LE bought 13 LOs new for cement service in 1937. The C&O and PM did the same thing, but I don't have those numbers in front of me. Several Midwestern roads, especially the IC and Rock Island, also bought new ACF-built covered hoppers for cement service before WWII. Ray Breyer Elgin, IL
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Re: Northern Pacific gondola pics please
It's CENTRAL Washington -- think Yakima and Ellensburg
As Tim said lot's of beet growing in Southwest Washington including the Walla Walla Valley Railway using NP gondolas.
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Re: The History of Shipping Bulk Cement
Tony Thompson
Jim Betz wrote:
No. Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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The History of Shipping Bulk Cement
Hi all,
This thread was born as "Covered Hoppers - for Cement". Although there have been a few posts on the referenced thread this part of my question has gone essentially unanswered ... What I'm looking for is the kind of -general- historical information that covers questions such as 1) When were cement hoppers commonly in use (as opposed to the earliest experiments - which I know about )? 2) Was I wrong in my general statements about how far -most- bulk cement was moved in covered hoppers? All - I am not talking about concrete - I'm interested in the bulk cement hauls (before, during, and after the transition to using 'dedicated service' covered hoppers). At least one thing I learned from the prior thread was about the use of "bulk containers in gons" in the early days. Thanks for that detail/piece of information. - Jim B.
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Re: Northern Pacific gondola pics please
railsnw@...
Whoop's, yeah you are right. Not many sugar beets growing in the timber lands in southwest Washington :)
Rich
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Re: Northern Pacific gondola pics please
Tony Thompson
Wouldn't that be southEASTERN Washington? Or am I missing something? Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Online Shippers Guides
Tony Thompson
Allen Montgomery wrote:
That's the source I originally recommended. Very good reproduction, fair prices. It's at: Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Covered Hoppers - for Cement
Brad Andonian
Fellas, The NYC had a plethora of gondolas with acf cement cannisters. Bill Davis offers them in ho; I have a good number in O from Rich Yoder and Robert Parri. Here is a link:
These cars ran from the Bethlehem cement district to the jersey side of the Hudson River. Many were carfloated into NYC for distribution. Brad Andonian PS: there is a post on this in the files somewhere!
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Re: Northern Pacific gondola pics please
railsnw@...
As Tim said lot's of beet growing in Southwest Washington including the Walla Walla Valley Railway using NP gondolas.
As to Caswell gondolas, SP&S bought used ones from ATSF and converted them to wood chip cars. Rich Wilkens
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Re: canopy cement/plastic kit from hell
I used Testor’s liquid cement on mine.
Thanks! -- Brian Ehni From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, March 3, 2016 at 10:27 AM To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [STMFC] canopy cement/plastic kit from hell I'm not surprised Central Valley had only one injection molded freight car kit. The parts are very nice but getting them together is a lot of work. The plastic is hard to cut/sand. Plastruct solvent cement works, but evaporates almost immediately. Neither Ambroid or Duco cement held the parts I had to fiddle with. Trying everything I could think of (even took out the dreaded tube of Goo) I tried Pacer canopy cement and it worked like a charm. Used the canopy cement to put on the roof walk and it worked great. I just hope the canopy cement paints OK, unlike white glue. That plastic would be good for stirrup steps. It's definitely not ordinary styrene. Ed Mines
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canopy cement/plastic kit from hell
ed_mines
I'm not surprised Central Valley had only one injection molded freight car kit. The parts are very nice but getting them together is a lot of work. The plastic is hard to cut/sand. Plastruct solvent cement works, but evaporates almost immediately. Neither Ambroid or Duco cement held the parts I had to fiddle with. Trying everything I could think of (even took out the dreaded tube of Goo) I tried Pacer canopy cement and it worked like a charm. Used the canopy cement to put on the roof walk and it worked great. I just hope the canopy cement paints OK, unlike white glue. That plastic would be good for stirrup steps. It's definitely not ordinary styrene. Ed Mines
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