Date   

60103

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Flying Scotsman on the Turntable at NRM York.
Photo taken by my friend Roly Powell 
Paul 



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: P2K 10K tank car replacement railing

Bob Christensen
 

I saw this conversation and remembered something I learned from airplane modelers.  The .019 Detail Associates wire fits inside the .8mm tubing made by Albion Alloys.  I just tested it out.  You can cut the tubing to length using a scalpel.  You place the tubing on a hard surface  and roll it back and forth a few times at the spot where you want to cut it.  Then just snap it off and it breaks clean.  I tried it and was amazed I could get usable pieces less than 2mm long.
Bob Christensen


Re: The History of Shipping Bulk Cement

Guy Wilber
 

Clark wrote:

"4 97lb sacks equal 1 barrel of cement."

Clark,

94 Lb. bag is the standard.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: AAR 70-ton flat cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Scott

Not ignored at all, but I don't know of any specific SURVEY style
article that covers all of them at once.

I have literally scores of emails about these cars, and there have
been articles about modeling them -prior- to the introduction of the
Sunshine and Intermountain models.

Tim O'Connor



Has there been an article covering the AAR 70-ton standard flat cars? 
The 50-ton cars were well covered after Proto:2000 released their model,
but have the 70-tonners been ignored?

Scott Chatfield


Re: The History of Shipping Bulk Cement

Clark Propst
 

You need to have the ability to unload and transport a product in house. Here in the Upper Midwest most cement was sold to lumber yards. First in barrels, then cloth bags, then paper sacks – still sold at barrel pricing after the end of this list timeframe. 4 97lb sacks equal 1 barrel of cement. It wasn’t till batch plants became common did the scales tip toward bulk cement in covered hoppers. Excluding highway or other large jobs. Other areas of the country may differ?
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


AAR 70-ton flat cars

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Has there been an article covering the AAR 70-ton standard flat cars? The 50-ton cars were well covered after Proto:2000 released their model, but have the 70-tonners been ignored?

Scott Chatfield


Re: DESPERATELY SEEKING DECALS

Justin May <jmay59@...>
 

I am trying to find a Microscale decal set #87239. This is for Southern Pacific copvered hoppers. Need two sets.

Bill,
According to Microscale, 87-1390 replaced sets 87-239 and 87-240. The newer set shows in stock at Microscale, Walthers, and several online vendors.

Justin May


Re: The History of Shipping Bulk Cement

mark_landgraf
 

Prior to the bulk loading of cement, it was shipped in bags in box cars. Many of this countries transcontinental highways, built in the 1920s were built this way. 

In the 1935-1937 is when dedicated fleet of covered hoppers and cement bulk containers started showing up. NE Pennsylvania was the starting area. These dedicated cars had steep slope sheet - about 80 degrees - that provided easier self unloading of the dense cement. A retrofitted coal hopper - with 120 degree slope sheets - did not self unload very well. Much cement needed to be either vibrated out or manually assisted out of the cars.  This why the retro cars did not catch on. The RRs bought the dedicated covered hoppers. 

Distance shipped - every ton mile costs money. The closest suitable product will be the cheapest. You would only buy a premium product if you needed a premium product, but even then the closest will likely be the cheapest. 

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network.
From: jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC]
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2016 2:03 PM
To: STMFC@...
Reply To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] The History of Shipping Bulk Cement

 

Hi all,

This thread was born as "Covered Hoppers - for Cement".

Although there have been a few posts on the referenced thread
this part of my question has gone essentially unanswered ...

What I'm looking for is the kind of -general- historical information
that covers questions such as

1) When were cement hoppers commonly in use (as opposed
to the earliest experiments - which I know about )?

2) Was I wrong in my general statements about how far -most-
bulk cement was moved in covered hoppers?

All - I am not talking about concrete - I'm interested in the
bulk cement hauls (before, during, and after the transition to
using 'dedicated service' covered hoppers).
At least one thing I learned from the prior thread was about
the use of "bulk containers in gons" in the early days. Thanks
for that detail/piece of information.
- Jim B.



DESPERATELY SEEKING DECALS

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I am trying to find a Microscale decal set #87239. This is for Southern Pacific copvered hoppers. Need two sets.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Bill Pardie


Re: P2K 10K tank car replacement railing

Tony Thompson
 

Fenton Wells wrote:

 
Thanks Al, and by the way I was inspired by your tank car clinic in Cocoa this year.  I'll give it a try.  I have some .19 from Detail associates i think

   I agree with Al Brown's recommendation. I use the DA brass wire, which is indeed 0.019 inches.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





Re: P2K 10K tank car replacement railing

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Al, and by the way I was inspired by your tank car clinic in Cocoa this year.  I'll give it a try.  I have some .19 from Detail associates i think

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 8:21 PM, abrown@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Hi Fenton,


I don't know of a source for replacement handrails made specifically for the P2K tank. But in general, I find that plastic tank-car handrails (like plastic sill steps) don't long survive contact with my three left elbows and two right thumbs. In my hands, wire handrails are far more durable. To replace the P2K handrail you'll need handrails and joiners and stanchions. Precision Scale #32110 stanchions are beautiful; for handrails, I've been using .015" OD phosphor-bronze wire (PB holds its shape better than brass), joined with .016" ID plastic tubing from smallparts.com. Tony Thompson points out that my handrail is really too light: should be .019" OD. I don't know of a source of .019" PB wire, but Tichy supplies .020"; if I can find .021" ID tubing, I'll try it. The stanchions will need to be drilled to accept wire that large.


Ted Culotta uses a related technique, described in one of his RMC articles: joins handrails with *steel* tubing, cut with a cut-off disc in a Dremel tool. (If the tube is steel it needn't fit quite so tightly on the handrail.) I lack Ted's skill with a Dremel, have tried it and failed. Others think it isn't a big deal, though.


YMMV --


Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.




--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Re: P2K 10K tank car replacement railing

al_brown03
 

Hi Fenton,


I don't know of a source for replacement handrails made specifically for the P2K tank. But in general, I find that plastic tank-car handrails (like plastic sill steps) don't long survive contact with my three left elbows and two right thumbs. In my hands, wire handrails are far more durable. To replace the P2K handrail you'll need handrails and joiners and stanchions. Precision Scale #32110 stanchions are beautiful; for handrails, I've been using .015" OD phosphor-bronze wire (PB holds its shape better than brass), joined with .016" ID plastic tubing from smallparts.com. Tony Thompson points out that my handrail is really too light: should be .019" OD. I don't know of a source of .019" PB wire, but Tichy supplies .020"; if I can find .021" ID tubing, I'll try it. The stanchions will need to be drilled to accept wire that large.


Ted Culotta uses a related technique, described in one of his RMC articles: joins handrails with *steel* tubing, cut with a cut-off disc in a Dremel tool. (If the tube is steel it needn't fit quite so tightly on the handrail.) I lack Ted's skill with a Dremel, have tried it and failed. Others think it isn't a big deal, though.


YMMV --


Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: The History of Shipping Bulk Cement

Douglas Harding
 

Jim here is the M&StL cement hopper purchase history.

1940       buy-new              10           cov hoppers                       70051 to 70069  29'-3"    140,000                 cement service                 GA

1947       buy-new              50           cov hoppers                       70101 to 70199  29'-3"    140,000                 cement service                 P-S

1955       buy-new              40           cov hoppers                       70201 to 70279  29'-3"    140,000                 cement service                 P-S

1956       buy-new              50           cov hoppers                       70301 to 70399  29'-3"    140,000                 cement service                 P-S

1957       buy-new              100         cov hoppers                       70401 to 70599  29'-3"    140,000                 cement service                 P-S

 

As you can an early purchase let to major purchase after WWII, then major purchases in the mid 50’s.

 

The M&StL served two cement plants in Mason City IA, most production going north into Minnesota. Minnesota being one of the few states with out deposits suitable for making cement.

The M&StL also served two cement plants in Des Moines IA, which served the central Iowa area.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


P2K 10K tank car replacement railing

O Fenton Wells
 

Does anyone have a replacement handrail for a P2K 10K gal tank car or who has them to sell?  I couldn't find them at Walthers.  Or suggestions for making a replacement.

Thanks in advance

Fenton Wells




Re: canopy cement/plastic kit from hell

thmsdmpsy
 

I think you need to clean the mold release from the kit, my felt greasy so that's what I did.  Tom Dempsey, Spokane, WA



Re: The History of Shipping Bulk Cement

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Jim,

There were wooden covered hoppers as early as the 1890s, and special steel cars in the 1920s. Checked my Gregg Cyclopedias: Greenville built small 50-ton hoppers for the Erie in 1934. The PRR H30 car dates from around 1935, as does the B&O N31. There are some other cars that date from the late 1930s like some home-built WM cars from 1937. I see NYC Enterprise cars from 1939, L&NE drop-frame cars from 1938 and the NKP bought AC&F 70-ton cars in 1939. That seems like the watershed year.

Does this help?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


On 3/3/16 2:03 PM, jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

Hi all,

This thread was born as "Covered Hoppers - for Cement".

Although there have been a few posts on the referenced thread
this part of my question has gone essentially unanswered ...

What I'm looking for is the kind of -general- historical information
that covers questions such as

1) When were cement hoppers commonly in use (as opposed
to the earliest experiments - which I know about )?

2) Was I wrong in my general statements about how far -most-
bulk cement was moved in covered hoppers?

All - I am not talking about concrete - I'm interested in the
bulk cement hauls (before, during, and after the transition to
using 'dedicated service' covered hoppers).
At least one thing I learned from the prior thread was about
the use of "bulk containers in gons" in the early days. Thanks
for that detail/piece of information.
- Jim B.



Re: The History of Shipping Bulk Cement

Ray Breyer
 

Common? Mid to late 1930s. The AMC roads were buying them as-needed to cover increased concrete production for WPA projects all over the Great Lakes region. They were also converting plain hoppers into LOs for the same traffic.
 
The Nickel Plate started converting USRA twins into covered hoppers, and by 1936 had converted 40 of them to dry cement cars (and another 19 for dolomite or soda ash). They bought 50 new LOs in 1937 and 1939 for cement service. The W&LE bought 13 LOs new for cement service in 1937. The C&O and PM did the same thing, but I don't have those numbers in front of me. Several Midwestern roads, especially the IC and Rock Island, also bought new ACF-built covered hoppers for cement service before WWII.

Ray Breyer 
 Elgin, IL



From: "jimbetz jimbetz@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2016 1:03 PM
Subject: [STMFC] The History of Shipping Bulk Cement

Hi all,

  This thread was born as "Covered Hoppers - for Cement".

    Although there have been a few posts on the referenced thread
this part of my question has gone essentially unanswered ...

  What I'm looking for is the kind of -general- historical information
that covers questions such as

    1) When were cement hoppers commonly in use (as opposed
          to the earliest experiments - which I know about )?

    2) Was I wrong in my general statements about how far -most-
          bulk cement was moved in covered hoppers?

  All - I am not talking about concrete - I'm interested in the
bulk cement hauls (before, during, and after the transition to
using 'dedicated service' covered hoppers).
  At least one thing I learned from the prior thread was about
the use of "bulk containers in gons" in the early days.  Thanks
for that detail/piece of information.
                        - Jim B.


------------------------------------
Posted by: jimbetz <jimbetz@...>
------------------------------------


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Re: Northern Pacific gondola pics please

Tim O'Connor
 


It's CENTRAL Washington -- think Yakima and Ellensburg





As Tim said lot's of beet growing in Southwest Washington including the Walla Walla Valley Railway using NP gondolas.

    Wouldn't that be southEASTERN Washington? Or am I missing something?

Tony Thompson 


Re: The History of Shipping Bulk Cement

Tony Thompson
 

Jim Betz wrote:

1) When were cement hoppers commonly in use (as opposed to the earliest experiments - which I know about )?


      Right after the end of World War II, many railroads were buying covered hoppers, the great majority for cement. See the recent issues of RPC for more info.

2) Was I wrong in my general statements about how far -most-bulk cement was moved in covered hoppers?


       No.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history





The History of Shipping Bulk Cement

Jim Betz
 

Hi all,

This thread was born as "Covered Hoppers - for Cement".

Although there have been a few posts on the referenced thread
this part of my question has gone essentially unanswered ...

What I'm looking for is the kind of -general- historical information
that covers questions such as

1) When were cement hoppers commonly in use (as opposed
to the earliest experiments - which I know about )?

2) Was I wrong in my general statements about how far -most-
bulk cement was moved in covered hoppers?

All - I am not talking about concrete - I'm interested in the
bulk cement hauls (before, during, and after the transition to
using 'dedicated service' covered hoppers).
At least one thing I learned from the prior thread was about
the use of "bulk containers in gons" in the early days. Thanks
for that detail/piece of information.
- Jim B.