Date   

Re: liquid cements for plastics

ed_mines
 

Thanks. will order some.


Ed Mines



liquid cement

ed_mines
 

I live out in the country in Pennsylvania. My local hardware store is very well stocked but never heard of MEK. Will eventually check with auto body painters.


Order all hobby supplies on line.


Orange label plastruct which gacks up paint brushes.


I don't live too far from English's hobby shop or Steamtown.


Ed Mines


Re: liquid cements for plastics

Scott
 

I have been using Tamiya Green with good results.


Tichy R-40-2/R-30-13 reefer ends

ed_mines
 

I never had any luck using the drilling jig provided.


I finally got some uniform grab iron holes using Yarmouth ladders as a jig and the space between boards (scribed line)  I drilled the top hole, pinned the ladder stile with a piece of wire, located the bottom hole, drilled it and then pinned it with wire. Taped the brass down; drilled pilot holes with a #80 drill. (Phew!).


Located the second line of holes using another scribed vertical line and a triangle.


Bent the grabs by hand (.0125 Tichy wire). Spaced them the end from with an .030 spacer.


16 inch rung spacing on the ends, 18 on the sides.


Replaced the upper brake support with a Yarmouth eye bolt. Used .020 wire for brake staff as recommended (maybe too big). .030 spacer (maybe a little too big). Using the brake staff & spacer to hold it in place, solvent welded the brake platform to the end. .010X.020 platform supports.


Dimensions taken from the scale drawing in the PFE book.


Yes, I know there are a few who can do everything by eye. I can't.




Re: liquid cements for plastics

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 3/20/2016 9:10 AM, Jon Miller wrote:
    Someone mentioned the

    Not sure what button I pushed, grin.  Anyway there is a Sherwin-Williams paint store close and I forgot if anyone had tried it or not.  It opens at 10:00 and is close so think I will go over and see.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: liquid cements for plastics

Jack Burgess
 

When we discussed this a year or so ago, David Hussey of Cannon & Company reported that he had tried the MEK substitute and it didn’t work at all.



Jack Burgess



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 8:50 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] liquid cements for plastics








Ed, my big box stores only have MEK "substitute" which I have not tried.

I get the real thing at Sherwin-Williams paint store.

Chuck Peck in FL



On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 11:32 AM, ed_mines@yahoo.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Are any of the liquid cements for plastics currently sold slower to evaporate than Plastruct's?



For years I used MEK; had a drum of it at work. Now it's apparently unavailable to hardware store buyers.



Ed Mines


Re: liquid cements for plastics

Andy Miller
 

Which of the Plastruct cements are you using? The orange label evaporates slower than the white label. The orange label is also good for a variety of plastics, including ABS. As far as I can tell the white label is only good foe styrene.



I have never found out what the pink label is good for, except perhaps it is safe for children to drink ;-)



Regards,

Andy Miller



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 11:33 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] liquid cements for plastics





Are any of the liquid cements for plastics currently sold slower to evaporate than Plastruct's?



For years I used MEK; had a drum of it at work. Now it's apparently unavailable to hardware store buyers.



Ed Mines





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: liquid cements for plastics

Charles Peck
 

Ed, my big box stores only have MEK "substitute" which I have not tried.
I get the real thing at Sherwin-Williams paint store.
Chuck Peck in FL

On Sun, Mar 20, 2016 at 11:32 AM, ed_mines@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Are any of the liquid cements for plastics currently sold slower to evaporate than Plastruct's?


For years I used MEK; had a drum of it at work. Now it's apparently unavailable to hardware store buyers.


Ed Mines



Re: liquid cements for plastics

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 3/20/2016 8:32 AM, ed_mines@... [STMFC] wrote:
For years I used MEK; had a drum of it at work. Now it's apparently unavailable to hardware store buyers.

    I think this is only in CA.  There was a big discussion on this a year or so ago.  We were going to "Thunder Road" it in from Nevada! 

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: liquid cements for plastics

Don Burn
 

Ed,

 

    Check Lowes and Home Depot, it varies by state but both of these have it locally in New England.

 

Don Burn

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 11:33 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] liquid cements for plastics

 




Are any of the liquid cements for plastics currently sold slower to evaporate than Plastruct's?

 

For years I used MEK; had a drum of it at work. Now it's apparently unavailable to hardware store buyers.

 

Ed Mines





liquid cements for plastics

ed_mines
 

Are any of the liquid cements for plastics currently sold slower to evaporate than Plastruct's?


For years I used MEK; had a drum of it at work. Now it's apparently unavailable to hardware store buyers.


Ed Mines


Re: Trains 60,61 car counts

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 3/20/2016 7:54 AM, cepropst@q.com [STMFC] wrote:
I don’t the columns will stay with this groups formatting

    I didn't understand a word you were saying Clark but the formatting on Thunderbird was perfect! :-)

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: ATSF freight car red

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 3/20/2016 6:00 AM, George Toman gtws00@... [STMFC] wrote:
shows Model Masters Rust to be the substitute for SantaFe Mineral Red. The Model Masters site shows it as availble.

    But where to find MM paint.  I called The Train Shop in SJ and they have Tru-Color.  So a trip to SJ next week.  It's only a 20 minute drive but then in old age I get lazy.  I only want a small jar of touch-up to sorta match the Walthers ATSF wood cabooses.  All those little pieces of wire one has to add.

    Discussions about paint always turn into I'm up to my a** in alligators when all I wanted to do was drain the swamp.  [very big grin]

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Trains 60,61 car counts

Clark Propst
 

 
 

 
 
 

I counted up all the different railroad’s cars on these trains + or- a few...Here’s what I came up with for the top 25 excluding the M&StL. Then I broke them down by railroads with trackage in IA, MN and those without. [I counted the ATSF as a without]. I don’t the columns will stay with this groups formatting
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
 
RR TOTAL RR REGIONAL TOTAL RR NATIONAL TOTAL
NYC 171 CNW 163 NYC 171
UTLX 171 MILW 153 UTLX 171
CNW 163 NP 137 PRR 155
PRR 155 GN 136 ATSF 81
MILW 153 RI 94 SP 71
NP 137 CB&Q 92 MP 67
GN 136 IC 83 SOU 64
RI 94 SOO 76 B&O 60
CB&Q 92 934 C&O 59
IC 83 UP 58
ATSF 81 ERIE 41
SOO 76 SL-SF 39
SP 71 CP 33
MP 67 CN 30
SOU 64 L&N 23
B&O 60 NKP 23
C&O 59 DL&W 20
UP 58 1166
ERIE 41
SL-SF 39
CP 33
CN 30
L&N 23
NKP 23
DL&W 20
2100


Re: ATSF freight car red

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Fred,

WP paint colors definitely changed over time. If you have Jim Eager's WESTERN PACIFIC COLOR GUIDE, you can get a pretty good idea, but you still have to account for weathering differently, different paint lots, repaints, plus the film and lighting conditions of the original photo. I think Jim's book is the best guide we have.

WP/SN wooden cars often show up as a very intense FCR, almost PRR red. You can see this on pages 19 and 20, but the two views of the single-sheathed boxcars still look different. The two SN cars on the next page are fairly consistent, but a bit duller. But compare these with the wooden cabooses on pages 120-123, and you get a whole pallet of different reds.

The various steel cars show quite a bit of variety. I think the original paint on most of the pre-1950s cars was a fairly rich FCR, but it weathered and rusted differently from car to car, and you have to take into account that some of these cars are repaints. OTOH, the view of WPMW 0232 on page 25 is badly color shifted by the photographic process. The red is way too saturated (besides, it is a 1959 repaint, nearly out of our era). The correct color is probably closer to WP 23001 on page 26, but note that the color is different from SN 24XX coupled to it.

The photo of new WP 19622 in the late 1954 scheme on page 34 is quite interesting. It appears in the photo as a much lighter orange-red. Again, this could be a color shift, but I don't see this in the foreground. Also note the yellow journal box covers, no doubt for roller bearing trucks.

My advice is go ahead and paint your cars using Jim's examples where you can, and then weather the heck of out of them. They're going to turn out differently, just like the real cars did.

If anybody criticizes you, I can send some of "my boys" over to lean on them a bit. "Hey, I hear yous got a beef wit' my pal Fred and his paint jobs. You like dat kneecap? Wanna keep it? We be seeing yous buddy."

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On 3/20/16 5:22 AM, fred@... [STMFC] wrote:
 

TC claims their colors are based on actual RR swatches.The same ones Tim showed in his link. If these are not 'accurate', what must we rely on then? 60 year old color photos? The zillion reds offered by just as many modelmakers? I'm researching steam era WP BCR for instance. WP red offered by TC is way too purple in my humble opinion and might be taken from a later swatch, maybe even 1960's. The WP reds suggested by the many craftsman kit manuals I own all differ from eachother. There are recepies mixing Floquil (used that 40 years ago) in 1/4 and 1/2 amounts and I end up with pink. My point is: as long as you cannot measure from an actual paint swatch that's been out of the sun since 1945, the right color is always a wild guess. However, like the SP yard photo showed us a while back, there's always a base color used by RR's which weathers during the time. It's that specific steam era WP red I'm searching for. Untill that day I won't paint my precious and expensive craftsman kits (and my kitbashed ones) just because of the risk of ending up with a row of 'worthless' cars because the color is not right... Cheers from Holland, Fred 'WP' Jansz.



Re: ATSF freight car red

Scott H. Haycock
 

It's a shame That tru-color isn't mentioned.They are working hard to provide the RR specific colors that many modelers are looking for.



Scott Haycock


 

Here is a link to a Paint Conversion Chart of Floquil Colors by Microscale. It is in pdf format and shows Model Masters Rust to be the substitute for SantaFe Mineral Red. The Model Masters site shows it as availble.



George Toman



Re: ATSF freight car red

gtws00
 

Here is a link to a Paint Conversion Chart of Floquil Colors by Microscale. It is in pdf format and shows Model Masters Rust to be the substitute for SantaFe Mineral Red. The Model Masters site shows it as availble.



George Toman


Re: ATSF freight car red

Fred Jansz
 

Scott, RR paint swatches are not photographed by paint manufacturers but scanned with calibrated industrial spectrophotometer. The automobile industry does it like this since ages. In fact many RR colors are simply based on automobile swatches. So when the WP museum in Portola finally finds that hidden but oh so wanted WP red paint swatch it has to be scanned, not photographed. In fact I understand there are nowadays APP's available for you phone so you can scan a color and translate it to for instance an automobile, RAL or Pantone color.
Cheers Fred


Re: ATSF freight car red

Scott H. Haycock
 

My previous post got me to thinking about the Pantone color standards, and how they may be useful in our hobby. That brought me to this link:   http://www.pantone-colours.com/

These colors are standardized and may be useful for color matching our hobby paints with prototype color examples, and digital images of freight cars. In the latter category, it may be useful to "eye drop" these samples to photographs in Lightroom, or Photoshop, or PS Elements, to get a close match in Pantone, and then a hobby paint color swatch.

If accurate color matches are your thing, this method may produce useful results. 

Scott Haycock 


 

See Fred Jansz' post below

Fred makes some good points about trying to find "accurate" colors, but he falls into the fallacy of assuming this is an achievable goal. He mentions the swatches that Tim posted. How were these photographed? If Film, which one? All films were based on different chemistry which tinted each color differently. Kodachrome versus  Fuji (a Japanese film company), had a different color palette, for instance.

Today, in the world of digital photography, there are tools you can use to standardize the colors in your photography. If you digitize older film images, you can also color adjust them somewhat, but there is a learning curve to all this.

Also, The colors you perceive outdoors, and the colors you see under indoor, dimmer light on you model railroad, won't come close to matching, and you can't rely on your eyes to ascertain the difference. All light sources are measured in degrees kelvin, including outdoor light (sunrise, midday late afternoon, are different),  photo flash, and all forms of indoor lighting. Colors appear different as these light sources vary by their temperature.

The bottom line is, It's impossible to know for certain about color based on old photographs, or faded color chips. Find a photo you like and try to match the color as close as you can. Paint a sample piece of scrap- I use cardstock- then look at it under your layout lighting. I'll bet it doesn't look nearly as good! Lighten it, and try again. When it looks good, Paint your model and move on to the next one!

Modelers spend far too much time worrying about finding factory made colors, when mixing you own is less expensive, provides more variety in shading, and looks better under layout lighting.

Scott Haycock



Re: modelling and detailing info on the Tichy War Emergency gon

rdgbuff56
 

Rob,
      Which road do you model?  I am looking through the ATSF color guide at this moment and there is a photo of one rebuilt with steel sides in Allentown, Pa. In 1981.
       I model the Reading and they had some almost right up to Conrail.
       Ironically, I just bought an old IHC plastic kit.  I am sure the Tichy kit is a better start.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:"Robert Kirkham rdkirkham@... [STMFC]"
Date:Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 10:49 pm
Subject:[STMFC] modelling and detailing info on the Tichy War Emergency gon

 

Just picked up a Tichy War Emergency gon, and before I get too far into the build thought I had better find a specific prototype, decals and detailing.  Is there a place I can find out the numbers built per original owner railroad and find specifics on any differences between cars?  As I model ’46, I expect I only need as built info.

I wonder how many years I am behind the rest of the hobby to only be getting to this kit now.  O well.

Rob Kirkham

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