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Re: ATSF freight car red

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 3/20/2016 12:31 PM, tgregmrtn@... [STMFC] wrote:
Don't hold back, open that bottle of ATSF Mineral Brown from Floquil,

    Normally I would do that but this bottle is the famous "REV  1".  Put normal disaul in it and it turned to jello.  I think it could be thinned with MEK (grin).

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: liquid cements for plastics

nvrr49@...
 

Go to a plastic wholesaler like Regal Plastics, and buy what the professionals use, Weldon, Methylene Chloride.  Sold in hobby shops in small quantities as Tenax, Ambroid ProWeld, etc.  Weldon, as I recall, offers three different evaporation rates.

Kent Hurley
nvrr49.blogspot.com.


Re: ATSF freight car red

riverman_vt@...
 

    A few of us in New England have been using the Pantone Matching System for several
years and have reached about the same conclusion Scott has. Things must still be
tempered by the choice of lighting for one's model pike, however. But I agree that some of 
us, while trying to be accurate in all respects, may go off the deep end on an issue that
is too subjective to really find choices that everyone will agree on. To each their own and
let it go at that.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Scale coat I problems.

Tim O'Connor
 

Denny,

Correction - I just recalled this DID happen to me once with SC-I paint
and it was not an old bottle. Even after I baked the finish (it was on a
brass model) it had that fine sandpaper finish. I know that acrylics have
a nasty habit of forming tiny particles if the paint is exposed to air for
too long or if the cap is not air tight. Probably the same thing can happen
to enamels like Scalecoat.

Tim




Denny I've had SC-I bottles go bad on me, but I've never experienced this
specific problem. I HAVE had this problem occur with Accupaint, especially
in humid conditions. Lots of variables with paint -- I'd say if it happens
with one bottle, throw out THAT bottle. But each bottle has its own history.

Tim O'


 > I have just experienced my my third bottle (among others over the years) where
 > the well-mixed paint (1:1 Scalecoat I thinner, 18 psi) dries to about a 600-1000
 > grit finish, saved only by careful sanding and application of 0000 steel wool
 > and Glosscoat.  What a chore!
 > Denny S. Anspach, MD


Re: Scale coat I problems.

Tim O'Connor
 

Denny I've had SC-I bottles go bad on me, but I've never experienced this
specific problem. I HAVE had this problem occur with Accupaint, especially
in humid conditions. Lots of variables with paint -- I'd say if it happens
with one bottle, throw out THAT bottle. But each bottle has its own history.

Tim O'

I have just experienced my my third bottle (among others over the years) where
> the well-mixed paint (1:1 Scalecoat I thinner, 18 psi) dries to about a 600-1000
> grit finish, saved only by careful sanding and application of 0000 steel wool
> and Glosscoat. What a chore!
> Denny S. Anspach, MD


Re: ATSF freight car red

Tony Thompson
 

Greg Martin wrote:

TCP is not a good option in my most humble opinion to anything but current BNSF Brown. 

         We all naturally have our own opinions about paint colors, and I don't argue with that. But this kind of blanket remark about TCP is just silly, as well as wrong. I know of a whole bunch of SP colors which TCP have faithfully matched to SP paint drift panels, and gotten them SPOT ON. Modelers of other roads say the same about many of the TCP paints. Greg may not like one color, his call of course, but please, let's not generalize like this.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: liquid cements for plastics

Tony Thompson
 

      Let me add a statement from someone who works with these materials and knows the rules.

>>MEK is not banned in California. That is misinformation often spread by employees at places like Home Depot and Ace hardware because they no longer sell MEK. Their main supplier Kleen Strip is stocking them with an MEK substitute that is adequate for thinning, but is not a replacement for prepping the surface of PVC. There are many professional paint or fiberglass supply stores that still stock it. Here in San Diego I purchased my MEK at Fiberlay. It can also be ordered from Tap Plastics. It ships as hazardous material, but is not excluded or prohibited. This lack of availability is directly related to a push to reduce the improper use of MEK as a basic household cleaner. Few shoppers at home improvement centers have any real need to be using MEK. Air Quality Control Districts are working hard to reduce the emissions from improperly used solvents and retailers are trying to reduce their liability for homeowners who fail to wear gloves and work in properly ventilated spaces.<<

      Southern California has been more aggressive on this matter than other parts of the state. But DO NOT give up just because the bozo at your local home improvement place says, "Oh no, that stuff is banned now."
      And please, spare me the rant about how regulation is ruining life.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: ATSF freight car red

Ed Hawkins
 


On Mar 20, 2016, at 2:31 PM, tgregmrtn@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

I am not an avid Santa Fe modeler but I do more than just dabble in it. I think I have a very good eye for color. I have used Tru-Color Paints on my most recent Santa Fe freight car and #19 you have pointed out here is a very poor representation of that color. Now saying that is nothing more than conjecture and I should have some basis for my statement and the correction to the TCP color, which as to mix it 50/50 with B&M Maroon.
 
TCP is not a good option in my most humble opinion to anything but current BNSF Brown. 

Greg and others interested in this topic,
FWIW, TCP #19 is a near-perfect match to actual ACF prototype “Mineral Brown” paint samples for a number of new ATSF freight cars built from 1931 to 1944, several MP box and stock cars built 1936-1942, and a few others. This rather dark brown color does not take into account any “scale effect” color correction that may be perceived as required for models.

From observations using the ACF paint samples, the #19 dark brown color ceased to be used on new freight car circa 1944 in favor of more red in the mix (i.e., red-brown) as well as more sheen typically found in paint samples of the postwar period into the 1950s. Thus, ATSF Mineral Brown shades used through World War II versus the postwar years were substantially different in hue as can be verified by comparing ACF paint samples.

The paint samples are available for viewing at the St. Louis Mercantile Library in the collection of ACF bills of materials. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: liquid cements for plastics

Tony Thompson
 

I too have got MEK at Sherman Williams in California since the ban.

      Once again, boys and girls, my understanding is that there is NO BAN on MEK in California. There is just more paperwork to sell it and a number of solvents, and some retailers choose not to do so. The same goes for lead and other substances. 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: liquid cements for plastics

Bill Vaughn
 

I too have got MEK at Sherman Williams in California since the ban.

Bill Vaughn


Scale coat I problems.

Anspach Denny <danspachmd@...>
 

I have long used Scalecoat I paints for my brass modeling, tasks that I only do episodically, sometimes a year or so apart, so that the paints sometimes sit years well-sealed between being called to duty. In this regard, I have a number of old metal cap pre-weaver bottles containing paints that certainly seem to be OK. But….but….I have just experienced my third bottle (among others over the years) where the well-mixed paint (1:1 Scalecoat I thinner, 18 psi) dries to about a 600-1000 grit finish, saved only by careful sanding and application of 0000 steel wool and Glosscoat. What a chore!

Have others had the same experience? Should I a priori pitch all these old bottles, a considerable investment?

There is nothing inheritantly wrong with old paint. I have used this past year to good and even superb effect several different iterations of SUPER Model Railroad Paint from late ‘40s.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864


Re: ATSF freight car red

Greg Martin
 

I am not an avid Santa Fe modeler but I do more than just dabble in it. I think I have a very good eye for color. I have used Tru-Color Paints on my most recent Santa Fe freight car and #19 you have pointed out here is a very poor representation of that color. Now saying that is nothing more than conjecture and I should have some basis for my statement and the correction to the TCP color, which as to mix it 50/50 with B&M Maroon.
 
TCP is not a good option in my most humble opinion to anything but current BNSF Brown. 
 
I based the decision on color photos, and compared the color to other works, like the color use on Red Caboose/IMWX ARR 1937 10'0" IH boxcar which I always considered a good match, and the work of Richard Hendrickson. I am fortunate enough to have some of his paints from his estate. Although the mix is not a great match it is a good base color and I can weather from there. ATSF Mineral Brown at least to me shows some crimson in the color.  
 
Don't hold back, open that bottle of ATSF Mineral Brown from Floquil, don't put your thinned mixture back in the bottle, tighten the lid, and store it upside down to preserve it.
 
Greg Martin  
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 

In a message dated 3/19/2016 11:55:28 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, STMFC@... writes:

Tru-color makes two versions of this--one for pre-1945 cars and one for post-1945.   I have used their paint and it is great--it sprays perfectly right out of the bottle and dries glossy for decaling.


Here is the website:

And, check this out:


And no, I am not affiliated--just a happy user!

Steve Kay

 


Re: modelling and detailing info on the Tichy War Emergency gon

Robert kirkham
 

Ah, 8 is a “sold out” issue.  Will have to look around for a used copy.

 

Thanks for the tip Bruce.

 

Rob

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 11:47 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] modelling and detailing info on the Tichy War Emergency gon

 




Rob,

 

Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, volume 28, covers these cars. Roads listed include:

 

ATSF (GA-61, GA-62)

CNJ

CRI&P (Rock Island)

GTW

IHB

NYC

LV

N&W

PRR (G30)

 

Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of Robert Kirkham rdkirkham@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 9:49 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] modelling and detailing info on the Tichy War Emergency gon

 

 

Just picked up a Tichy War Emergency gon, and before I get too far into the build thought I had better find a specific prototype, decals and detailing.  Is there a place I can find out the numbers built per original owner railroad and find specifics on any differences between cars?  As I model ’46, I expect I only need as built info.

I wonder how many years I am behind the rest of the hobby to only be getting to this kit now.  O well.

Rob Kirkham

 





Re: Tichy R-40-2/R-30-13 reefer ends

mwbauers
 

There's one more way to do those drill holes.

Do much the same as you do...  But don't drill with the template or parts held in place.

Instead of drilling with the parts and templates, use a sharp pin in a comfortable handle and mark the hole locations by pressing the pin tip into the surface via those templates or parts. Mark all of the holes that way and remove the templates and parts.

Now in every drill location is a tiny 'V' crater that perfectly centers the tip of the drill you wish to make use of. With the templates and parts out of the way you now have a center-punched drill pattern  on the surface without any possible shifting or grabbing of the parts or template during the drilling.

As a result, it makes the chore of drilling the holes some degrees easier.

Also, your templates will stay usable for many models. You'll find that to be handy for any custom templates you create and need to use several times.

Mike Bauers


On Mar 20, 2016, at 11:28 AM, "ed_mines@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:

I never had any luck using the drilling jig provided.


I finally got some uniform grab iron holes using Yarmouth ladders as a jig and the space between boards (scribed line)  I drilled the top hole, pinned the ladder stile with a piece of wire, located the bottom hole, drilled it and then pinned it with wire. Taped the brass down; drilled pilot holes with a #80 drill. (Phew!).


Re: modelling and detailing info on the Tichy War Emergency gon

Bruce Smith
 

Rob,


Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, volume 28, covers these cars. Roads listed include:


ATSF (GA-61, GA-62)

CNJ

CRI&P (Rock Island)

GTW

IHB

NYC

LV

N&W

PRR (G30)


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... on behalf of Robert Kirkham rdkirkham@... [STMFC]
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 9:49 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] modelling and detailing info on the Tichy War Emergency gon
 


Just picked up a Tichy War Emergency gon, and before I get too far into the build thought I had better find a specific prototype, decals and detailing.  Is there a place I can find out the numbers built per original owner railroad and find specifics on any differences between cars?  As I model ’46, I expect I only need as built info.

I wonder how many years I am behind the rest of the hobby to only be getting to this kit now.  O well.

Rob Kirkham




Re: modelling and detailing info on the Tichy War Emergency gon

Bruce Smith
 

Rob,


Once major difference is that the Tichy kit is plastic while the F&C kit is resin.  The F&C kit is one of their older kits and is a flat kit.  F&C directions are typical F&C (somewhat thin on detail) while Tichy directions are quite clear.   Note that both kits need modifications to model some of these cars such as the PRR's G30 class.


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL



From: STMFC@... on behalf of Robert Kirkham rdkirkham@... [STMFC]
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 12:32 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] modelling and detailing info on the Tichy War Emergency gon
 


I model the CPR in Vancouver, 1946.  The area was frequented by gons bringing shipbuilding material to the waterfront for a few years, so I need a variety.   

 

The other thing I’m curious about is how the Tichy kit I have differs from the F&C kit.

 

  

 

Rob  


Re: ATSF freight car red

Tim O'Connor
 

Fred makes some good points about trying to find "accurate" colors, but he falls
> into the fallacy of assuming this is an achievable goal. He mentions the swatches
> that Tim posted. How were these photographed?


Not photographed -- digital scans. Yes, the file is compressed (JPEG) while
I still have the original (TIFF). But I'm not going that rathole -- Just said
what I said to point out that most commercial paint products are at best just
approximations.

Tim


Re: modelling and detailing info on the Tichy War Emergency gon

Benjamin Hom
 

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. wrote:
"Ironically, I just bought an old IHC plastic kit. I am sure the Tichy kit is a better start."

Indeed. The IHC/Mehano/AHM model is too short in length and has an oddball underframe (fortunately not visible when the model is on the track).


Ben Hom


Re: modelling and detailing info on the Tichy War Emergency gon

Robert kirkham
 

I model the CPR in Vancouver, 1946.  The area was frequented by gons bringing shipbuilding material to the waterfront for a few years, so I need a variety.   

 

The other thing I’m curious about is how the Tichy kit I have differs from the F&C kit.

 

  

 

Rob  

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 3:58 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] modelling and detailing info on the Tichy War Emergency gon

 




Rob,
      Which road do you model?  I am looking through the ATSF color guide at this moment and there is a photo of one rebuilt with steel sides in Allentown, Pa. In 1981.
       I model the Reading and they had some almost right up to Conrail.
       Ironically, I just bought an old IHC plastic kit.  I am sure the Tichy kit is a better start.

Francis A. Pehowic, Jr.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

From:"Robert Kirkham rdkirkham@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
Date:Sat, Mar 19, 2016 at 10:49 pm
Subject:[STMFC] modelling and detailing info on the Tichy War Emergency gon

 

Just picked up a Tichy War Emergency gon, and before I get too far into the build thought I had better find a specific prototype, decals and detailing.  Is there a place I can find out the numbers built per original owner railroad and find specifics on any differences between cars?  As I model ’46, I expect I only need as built info.

I wonder how many years I am behind the rest of the hobby to only be getting to this kit now.  O well.

Rob Kirkham





Re: ATSF freight car red

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I was at the “Spare Time Shop,” Marlborough MA yesterday.  Very large display of Model Master as well as several other brands of paint.

 

Schuyler

Jon

The various Hobbytown shops usually carry the Testors ModelMaster paints. I got quite a few colors to fill out my paint locker from the Folsom Hobbytown. You might also try Fundemoneum in Rohnert Park. In their previous incarnation as a Hobbytown they carried the full line.

John Barry



On March 20, 2016, at 11:52 AM, "Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 

On 3/20/2016 6:00 AM, George Toman gtws00@... [STMFC] wrote:

shows Model Masters Rust to be the substitute for SantaFe Mineral Red. The Model Masters site shows it as availble.


    But where to find MM paint.  I called The Train Shop in SJ and they have Tru-Color.  So a trip to SJ next week.  It's only a 20 minute drive but then in old age I get lazy.  I only want a small jar of touch-up to sorta match the Walthers ATSF wood cabooses.  All those little pieces of wire one has to add.

    Discussions about paint always turn into I'm up to my a** in alligators when all I wanted to do was drain the swamp.  [very big grin]


-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

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