Date   

Barge Cement

Gary Ray
 

The blue Barge Cement does not work as well as the old red.  I couldn’t get a suitable mixture at all.  Was lucky to find a quart can on the red on eBay.  I use red and MEK mix to glue track down to CVMW tie strips.

 

Gary Ray

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 8:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] liquid cements for plastics

 




A question I’ve been having all through this thread:

 

Is MEK so much better than simple Testor’s Plastic Cement (the liquid variety)?

 

And for Mark: Is the blue Barge Cement working for you as well as the original formula?

 

Schuyler

 

 

 


Re: liquid cements for plastics

Dennis Storzek
 

This prompted me to look up the MSDS for Testors cement for plastic models. The bulk of the formula, 70%, is toluene. 1/2% is synthetic mustard oil, likely added as a tracking scent. Unfortunately, this leaves 29.5% undefined; it is likely MEK, Methylene Chloride, or a mix. Either way, it is not the same as pure MEK by any means.

Dennis Storzek


Re: liquid cements for plastics

David North
 

A question I’ve been having all through this thread:
Is MEK so much better than simple Testor’s Plastic Cement (the liquid variety)?
Schuyler

 

Hi Schuyler,

MEK flashes almost immediately, so is good for a quick bond and doesn’t have time to  leave glue “shadows” or “witness marks” on the exposed surface of the styrene which can be visible after you apply paint.

Testors does tend to leave such marks, as its slower drying time leaves more time for the wet glue to attack or craze the plastic.

This typically occurs when I’m holding two pieces of styrene together, and using a small paint brush to touch the joint, so the glue will run along the joint by capillary action.

Where the brush touched the work, I can get the marks I mentioned if using Testors. The marks aren’t visible using MEK.

 

However, if I’m applying glue to both surfaces and then pressing the parts together, MEK will invariably have dried before I can get the parts joined.

So in that sort of situation I use Testors.

I also feel that a Testors joint is stronger than an MEK joint, because the glue has more time to impregrate the plastic, creating a better, deeper weld.

 

So each has its place.

 

My glue stand has a bottle of each and I select the one I feel most appropriate for the job I’m doing.

Cheers

Dave


Re: Intermountain NRC reefer

ROGER HINMAN
 

CUD 2-60 is the reweigh date showing the car was at the NRC shops in Cudahy, Wisconsin in Feb 1960. The build date on these cars was Sep 1953. In using the Intermountain car you will not have the DSI roofs an end that were a distinctive feature on these cars


Rober Hinman

On Mar 21, 2016, at 6:03 PM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


It depends on the style of lettering. There were MDT-IC reefers in 1956
that used Roman style lettering. I think NYC began using Gothic lettering
12/1955. NRC followed the same lettering practice (changed from Roman to
Gothic) as NYC, MDT, but I don't know the exact date of the change.

So bottom line, if the lettering is Roman, I'd say you're good. If Gothic,
then I'm not certain -- the earliest Gothic NRC-IC reefer I've seen is from
June 1958

Tim O'Connor

>Going thru my freight car fleet to weed out those beyond my operating era (October 1956) on my B&O layout. Came across an Intermountain reefer NRC 16621 (Illinois Central on it) with the only dated markings of "CUD 2-60". Is that the build date? Is this scheme (yellow car with green lettering) beyond my era? Thanks.
>
>Fran Giacoma



Re: Intermountain NRC reefer

Fran Giacoma
 

Thanks Tim and Ben for the info. Mine has the Gothic style lettering.
Fran Giacoma


Re: liquid cements for plastics

Jack Burgess
 

I’ve been using MEK exclusively for decades after Al Armitage recommended it (he was the one who advocated using styrene back in the early 70s and was scribing sheet styrene before Evergreen came on line). When I checked the ingredients of Testors several decades ago, it was a formula which used MEK and some other ingredients which I assumed made it thicker and slower to dry.



I like MEK since it “flashes” off or dries in a few seconds and is completely dry and the parts bonded in maybe 15-20 seconds. I’m an very impatient modeler…



Jack Burgess



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2016 8:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] liquid cements for plastics








A question I’ve been having all through this thread:



Is MEK so much better than simple Testor’s Plastic Cement (the liquid variety)?



And for Mark: Is the blue Barge Cement working for you as well as the original formula?



Schuyler







I also use MEK and Barge cement to build Proto87 turnout kits so I have used more than I assume is average.



Mark

Mark P Stamm

Mark at Euphoriatt dot Com



Sent from my mobile device


On Mar 21, 2016, at 6:45 PM, Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Mark Stamm wrote:







Wow MEK from Lowes in eastern PA is $21 a gallon!





Don't think you will need a whole gallon, Mark.



Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA



He might if he forgets to replace the cap back tightly!

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA


Re: liquid cements for plastics

Mark Stamm
 

Schuyler

I have never tried the blue stuff, but I have heard that it does not work as well. I found a shoe repair place that sold the yellow label by the quart it should last a long time but it is a little difficult to dispense.  You can still get the yellow label on Amazon. 

HTH
Mark

Mark P Stamm
Mark at Euphoriatt dot Com

Sent from my mobile device

On Mar 21, 2016, at 11:47 PM, 'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

A question I’ve been having all through this thread:

 

Is MEK so much better than simple Testor’s Plastic Cement (the liquid variety)?

 

And for Mark: Is the blue Barge Cement working for you as well as the original formula?

 

Schuyler

 

 

 

I also use MEK and Barge cement to build Proto87 turnout kits so I have used more than I assume is average. 

 

Mark

Mark P Stamm

Mark at Euphoriatt dot Com

 

Sent from my mobile device


On Mar 21, 2016, at 6:45 PM, Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Mark Stamm wrote:

 



 

Wow MEK from Lowes in eastern PA is $21 a gallon!

 

 

    Don't think you will need a whole gallon, Mark.

 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

 

He might if he forgets to replace the cap back tightly!

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 

 

 


Re: Arcane question of the week

Dave Nelson
 

Whoa, now that’s what I like… real data.



Thanks so much for posting it.



Dave Nelson



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2016 6:01 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Arcane question of the week








Taken from an NKP Center of Gravity Diagram book - date unknown - presume 1930 to 1935



Tank Car - 10,000 gallons - mty wgt 46,064 lbs - CoG = 48.25 inches

loaded with 10248 gallons of gasoline - actual wght 105,862 - CoG 72.187 inches

loaded with 10,248 gallons of mineral oil - actual wght 125.656 - CoG 75 inches



Coal Hopper - 50 ton - mty wght 39,600 - CoG = 39.0625 inches

loaded with a 10 inch heap - actual wght 140883 - CoG = 70.625 inches

loaded with a 30° heap - actual wght 151,632 - CoG = 63.125 inches



Gondola - 50 ton - mty wght 44,100 lbs - CoG = 33.125 inchesg

loaded with coal - 10 inch heap - act wght 143341 - CoG = 63.75 inches

Loaded with coal - 30° heap - actual wght 157445 - CoG = 68.5 inches



Boxcar - 40 ton - 3736 cuft - mty wght 46450 lbs - CoG = 56.0625 inches

loaded with oats - actual wght 136000 - CofG = 84.75 inches

Loaded with corn - acyual wght 136000 - CoG = 69.0625 inches



Reefer ARTCo blt 1926-1927 - 40 tons - mty wght 52362 - CoG = 61.5 inches

mty car with 9615 lbs of ice in bunkers - actual wght 61977 - CoG = 69.03 inches





Super elevation back prior to the FRA, and when cars were not as tall was 7 inches max where passenger trains were operated, and the speed & radius required it. For frght only lines the max was 4 to 5 inches max.



Generally 1.5 inches of underbalance was - and still is - a safe maximum for frgt cars. Passenger trains normally operated at 3 inches of underbalance. Underbalance is how many inches a pendulum deflects while going around a curve. Envision an equilateral triangle with 56.5 inch side set up inside a car. A pendulum attached to its upper junction point. On straight track the pendulum hangs straight down at the zero point on the scale. Then we head into curve with no superelevation, the pendulum deflects outward 1½ inches. If that same curve had 1½ inches of superelevation, and the train was moving at the same speed as above, the pendulum would stay at zero. Hint - the triangle uses legs that are the same length as track gauge.



Even today's taller hicube cars when stopped on a curve with 4 inches of SE, still need a good crosswind - say 60+ MPH - before there is a likelihood of an mty car blowing over. Loaded cars would take tornado like winds to blow them over. Today you would need about 20 inches of superelevation to reach where a car would tip over. The actual angle would be determined by a triangle formed with a base of 56.5 inches and the other two equal legs of the length from the gauge point to the CoG elevation on the centerline of the car. When the CoG point tips far enough so that it is outside to the gauge line, the car tips over.



Mark Landgraf

Albany NY

railroad office engineer





_____

From: "jack.f.mullen@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 10:14 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Arcane question of the week





Dave Nelson said:

… gets you thinking of how the weight difference between a flat car and boxcar of reasonably similar construction translates into a different center of gravity… I would not think that much given the sides and roof panels for a boxcar are so thin.



Consider that a box car underframe has a lot less steel than a flat car. It's not so much a matter of adding the weight of the boxcar superstructure as redistributing mass higher above the rail. I'm still going from memory here, so feel free to fact-check, but I think the USRA box cars were no more than a ton or so heavier than the composite gon, and likewise to the proposed USRA flat cars. For another example, C&NW had some 50' merchandise box cars built prewar that were under 50000# light weight, well within the range of 50 ft, 50T flat cars. Admittedly, that's a somewhat light 50' box, but by no means unique.



In turn, this leads on to the question of why do empty covered hoppers have such a high center of gravity? Those sides must be much more substantial than I thought.





I was thinking specifically of 4600 CF and larger grain cars, where much of the car structure has been reduced to what's basically a big rectangular steel tube. Again, not really a matter of how heavy the sides are, as how much of the total body is fairly high up.



Jack Mullen














[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: liquid cements for plastics

Schuyler Larrabee
 

A question I’ve been having all through this thread:

 

Is MEK so much better than simple Testor’s Plastic Cement (the liquid variety)?

 

And for Mark: Is the blue Barge Cement working for you as well as the original formula?

 

Schuyler

 

 

 

I also use MEK and Barge cement to build Proto87 turnout kits so I have used more than I assume is average. 

 

Mark

Mark P Stamm

Mark at Euphoriatt dot Com

 

Sent from my mobile device


On Mar 21, 2016, at 6:45 PM, Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Mark Stamm wrote:

 



 

Wow MEK from Lowes in eastern PA is $21 a gallon!

 

 

    Don't think you will need a whole gallon, Mark.

 

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

 

He might if he forgets to replace the cap back tightly!

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 

 

 


Re: liquid cements for plastics

Mark Stamm
 

I also use MEK and Barge cement to build Proto87 turnout kits so I have used more than I assume is average. 

Mark

Mark P Stamm
Mark at Euphoriatt dot Com

Sent from my mobile device

On Mar 21, 2016, at 6:45 PM, Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Mark Stamm wrote:



 
Wow MEK from Lowes in eastern PA is $21 a gallon!


    Don't think you will need a whole gallon, Mark.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

He might if he forgets to replace the cap back tightly!
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA






Re: ATSF freight car red

David North
 

Hi Jon,

Acetone.

Cheers

Dave North


Re: trucks under NYC lot 488H hoppers

Guy Wilber
 

Scott wrote:

""T" sections were banned in
interchange in the early '50s."

A bit later, Scott..."T", "L" and "I" section side frames were prohibited in interchange as of January 1, 1957.

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: Intermountain NRC reefer

Benjamin Hom
 

Fran Giacoma asked:
"Going thru my freight car fleet to weed out those beyond my operating era (October 1956) on my B&O layout. Came across an Intermountain reefer NRC 16621 (Illinois Central on it) with the only dated markings of "CUD 2-60". Is that the build date?"

No - it's the reweigh date. "CUD" is the station code for Cudahy.


Ben Hom


Re: Intermountain NRC reefer

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"I think NYC began using Gothic lettering 12/1955."

Close - 8/1955.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-FREIGHT.htm


Ben Hom


Re: liquid cements for plastics

PDSteam <pdsteam@...>
 

  Yes a gallon is a lot, I bought a gallon 8 years ago and barely made a dent in it.  And use it for plastic cement exclusively and use it as a general cleaner for solvent based and acrylic paints.
  BUT it is WAY cheaper than buying those little bottles.

Pete Cesaro


On Mar 21, 2016, at 6:25 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Mark Stamm wrote:

 
Wow MEK from Lowes in eastern PA is $21 a gallon! 

    Don't think you will need a whole gallon, Mark.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Scale coat I problems.

PDSteam <pdsteam@...>
 

Denny,
I had this happen years ago with their #1 - Loco Black and #10 - Black, back when they were Quality Craft. But it seemed limited to only these colors. Never had this happen with any other colors and I have some bottles that are 35 years old. I noticed this on bottles that had been used and also on brand new bottles that had never been opened.
The paint looked ok at first glance but if you look closely it appeared to have tiny particles that looked almost like bubbles that never go away. This made the paint look gritty when sprayed on.

With one of the bottles I tried to filter it with mixed results...so when I saw a jar doing this I usually just tossed it. I hated wasting the money the jar cost but it's not that much when you consider the time and effort to "fix" the paint job. And sometimes that means having to strip it and start over.

Pete
Matthews, NC

On Mar 20, 2016, at 9:32 PM, Craig Zeni @CraigZ [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


On Mar 20, 2016, at 6:28 PM, STMFC@... wrote:

3a. Scale coat I problems.
Posted by: "Anspach Denny" danspachmd@... docdenny34
Date: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:53 pm ((PDT))

I have long used Scalecoat I paints for my brass modeling, tasks that I only do episodically, sometimes a year or so apart, so that the paints sometimes sit years well-sealed between being called to duty. In this regard, I have a number of old metal cap pre-weaver bottles containing paints that certainly seem to be OK. But╜.but╜.I have just experienced my third bottle (among others over the years) where the well-mixed paint (1:1 Scalecoat I thinner, 18 psi) dries to about a 600-1000 grit finish, saved only by careful sanding and application of 0000 steel wool and Glosscoat. What a chore!

Have others had the same experience? Should I a priori pitch all these old bottles, a considerable investment?

There is nothing inheritantly wrong with old paint. I have used this past year to good and even superb effect several different iterations of SUPER Model Railroad Paint from late ╢40s.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864
I have had this happen...but only when I'm careless spraying and put it on too dry. New bottle, old bottle...done it with both. Make sure your regulator is still working properly. Otherwise the paint is my old reliable.


Craig Zeni
Cary NC





------------------------------------
Posted by: Craig Zeni <@CraigZ>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



liquid cements for plastics

Andy Carlson
 

Mark Stamm wrote:



 
Wow MEK from Lowes in eastern PA is $21 a gallon!


    Don't think you will need a whole gallon, Mark.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

He might if he forgets to replace the cap back tightly!
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA






Re: liquid cements for plastics

Tony Thompson
 

Mark Stamm wrote:

 
Wow MEK from Lowes in eastern PA is $21 a gallon! 

    Don't think you will need a whole gallon, Mark.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: liquid cements for plastics

Mark Stamm
 

Wow MEK from Lowes in eastern PA is $21 a gallon! 

Mark P Stamm
Mark at Euphoriatt dot Com

Sent from my mobile device

On Mar 21, 2016, at 6:01 PM, Jon Miller atsfus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

On 3/20/2016 1:35 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:
MEK is not banned in California.

    Having fun this morning and called my local TAP Plastic (Fremont).  They have two gallons in stock at $40!  Cheaper to have it "Thunder Roaded" from NV at $30,  VBG!

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Intermountain NRC reefer

Tim O'Connor
 

It depends on the style of lettering. There were MDT-IC reefers in 1956
that used Roman style lettering. I think NYC began using Gothic lettering
12/1955. NRC followed the same lettering practice (changed from Roman to
Gothic) as NYC, MDT, but I don't know the exact date of the change.

So bottom line, if the lettering is Roman, I'd say you're good. If Gothic,
then I'm not certain -- the earliest Gothic NRC-IC reefer I've seen is from
June 1958

Tim O'Connor

Going thru my freight car fleet to weed out those beyond my operating era (October 1956) on my B&O layout. Came across an Intermountain reefer NRC 16621 (Illinois Central on it) with the only dated markings of "CUD 2-60". Is that the build date? Is this scheme (yellow car with green lettering) beyond my era? Thanks.

Fran Giacoma