Date   

Re: ACC cement

Anspach Denny <danspachmd@...>
 

I will second Schuyler on Loctite ACC. It has a good long shelf life and a closure system that actually closes tight each time. It is my go-to ACC cement.

I believe that I first tried Loctite on the advice of Bill Welch and Andy Sperandeo on this list.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864


Re: 36-foot box car data files - second summary

Robert kirkham
 

The photos I have of the 220series cars show 6/8 ends.  So as a stand in, yes. 

 

The 7/7 ends on the 215 series make it a closer match, though I am still wondering about height.  A photo I have shows a side ladder rather than grab iron style, with 7 rungs rather than the 6 grab irons.  Easy modification.     

  

Rob Kirkham

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 10:47 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 36-foot box car data files - second summary

 




Eric,

 

The following CPR boxcars seem to be close to the forthcoming Accurail kit.

 

The following is from a 1924 ORER.

 

CPR series 215000-216299   1,294 cars

36’ DS, steel roof, steel ends, straight side sill, fishbelly centre sill, ladders, IH 8, 2448 cu ft.

I have builders photo of CP 215001

 

 

CPR series 220000-220999   1,000 cars

36’ DS, steel roof, steel ends, straight side sill, fishbelly center sill,   IH  8-7, 2638 cu ft.,  built 1923

I have builders photo of CP 220425

 

 

John Riddell





Re: ACC cement

Schuyler Larrabee
 

My experience with ACC is that Krazy Glue and the other drugstore brands really are not very good stuff. 

 

THE BEST ACC I have come across is Loctite Super Glue, which comes in several viscosities, and in a container that really does give great control over just how much you get out of the bottle.  It has flexible sides to the bottle, and by squeezing the sides you control how much emerges from the tip.  A bottle lasts me probably six or eight months, but I don’t go to any lengths to make it last.  It just sits on the bench.  I have used both the thin “Ultra Liquid Control” and the “Gel Control” thicknesses.  They bond very strongly and cure just quickly enough to allow me a second  to adjust the inevitable, occasional, part that moves JUST as I apply the glue.

 

You can get this in hardware stores, and also in Michaels art supply stores.

 

Schuyler

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 2:54 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] ACC cement

 

 

The problem I have with ACC cement is that the container gets gacked up with dry adhesive, not that the adhesive thickens or dries out.

 

It's hard to get a small amount out of those beat up containers.

 

I've been buying small packages of ACC at the supermarket/dollar store for a long time as suggested by Al Westerfield in his "how to" video.

 

Ed Mines


Re: perishable traffic patterns

Tony Thompson
 

The total tons (last column) are obtained by sum of the first four columns and the total row at the bottom is obtained by the sum over all of the carriers (including those not shown in this brief snippet).  The fourth numeric column, tons received from connecting roads is actually what we are after, the total number of tons of pure interchange (or overhead) traffic.  It was my hypothesis that the number of tons in this column would be greater for commodities that would be diverted more frequently.  

    Really thought-provoking data and analysis, Charles. But I'm not sure what I'm learning, and I'm not sure the logic works here. Many perishable loads traveled long distances, thus had many interchanges. But if the eastward load was diverted in St. Louis to go to Boston instead of Philadelphia, I don't see how total interchanges bears on that. Seems to me that the numbers of total interchanges, even if correctly analyzed, cannot of themselves tell you anything about diversions.
     Or is there some part of this analysis that I don't get?

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: perishable traffic patterns

Charles Hostetler
 

Todd Sullivan wrote "A question: How did you determine the number of interchanges for each load? I understand the numbers of originating ("Orig") and terminating ("Term") loads, but I didn't think you included data on the number of times a load was interchanged (which, I assume, means an inter-railroad movement)."

Hi Todd,

The answer is that I inferred it from more detailed information inside the report.  Each year's ICC Freight Commodity Statistics Report consisted of a set of master sheets, with detail on each Class 1 carrier.  Each carrier reports (on an annual basis) the following (in tons):
a)  traffic originated on line and terminated on line
b)  traffic originated on line and delivered to another carrier
c)  traffic received from another carrier and terminated on line
d)  traffic received from another carrier and delivered to another (third) carrier

So the sum of a and b are the total originated by the reporting railroad and the sum of a and c are the total terminated by the reporting railroad.  Here's an example of raw data I had already transcribed from 1957 for bananas, fresh.  (For brevity this table shows only a few of the 110 Class 1 Carriers; had to transcribe the total list to get the grand total in the bottom line):


Tons Originated Tons Received Tons
Carrier Terminating Connecting Terminating Connecting Total
ATSF 18,635 282 8,015 12 26,944
CNW 0 0 24,852 47 24,899
CO 12 9 21,998 2,321 24,340
ERIE 108 2,350 6,594 2,977 12,029
NKP 0 0 20,201 521 20,722
PRR 27,561 17,629 38,744 6,857 90,791
SP 33,803 9,255 16,706 218 59,982
TNO 8,854 50 76 0 8,980
WAB 0 0 9,665 2,369 12,034






Total 317,485 571,082 466,815 301,354 1,656,736

The total tons (last column) are obtained by sum of the first four columns and the total row at the bottom is obtained by the sum over all of the carriers (including those not shown in this brief snippet).  The fourth numeric column, tons received from connecting roads is actually what we are after, the total number of tons of pure interchange (or overhead) traffic.  It was my hypothesis that the number of tons in this column would be greater for commodities that would be diverted more frequently.  

The trouble is that there are 261 commodity classes and each commodity class has 4 raw numbers to transcribe for each of 110 Class 1 carriers.  So I've been plugging away at transcribing and QAing this for a while now and it's not done yet for all commodities for any single year.  And when I was looking at Tony's post I wanted to see if perishables as a group had more interchanges compared to other commodity classes.  So I took a shortcut and transcribed one of the summary tables after I had convinced myself that there was a correlation between the total number of tons (or carloads) handled and the total number of tons (or carloads) of bridge traffic.  It was kind of a kludgy demonstration, but that's how the ratio was computed.  

I figure I'll complete all of the transcriptions in a year or so and then I can look at the detailed data more analytically, but anyway it was a start. Eventually I hope to use this type of information to pattern my bridge traffic (I have a lot of overhead traffic to deal with relative to locally originated or terminated traffic).   Hope this wasn't too confusing and if you want to take a look at a couple of spreadsheets to see some of the details please drop me a line off list and we can discuss in more detail.  

Regards,

Charles Hostetler
Washington Ill.


Re: A large tank as a heavy flat car load

Bruce Smith
 

Ed, Folks,

Thanks.  With that info I found this neat advert in Railway Age featuring CISX 500


Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Apr 13, 2016, at 2:59 PM, STMFC@... wrote:
Bruce,

The car was CISX 500, built February 1941.  I don't know if it was specially built for the Jumbo moves.  There's a picture on Fallen Flags.

Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: A large tank as a heavy flat car load

Jack Mullen
 

Given the February 1941 date built, it would have taken exceptional clairvoyance for CISX 500 to have been specially built for the Manhattan project.  So, "specially built", yeah, just as all high-capacity flats are special.
But for Jumbo?, nah.

This car and Jumbo have been previously discussed here.  A search on the group site for "CISX" or "Jumbo" should get you hits.

Jack Mullen


Re: ACC cement

Jared Harper
 



I like Krazy Glue in the small container with the small tip.  Sometimes it clogs up, but mostly it doesn't.  If it does clog I use a T-pin to unclog it.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA
---In STMFC@..., <ed_mines@...> wrote :

The problem I have with ACC cement is that the container gets gacked up with dry adhesive, not that the adhesive thickens or dries out.


It's hard to get a small amount out of those beat up containers.


I've been buying small packages of ACC at the supermarket/dollar store for a long time as suggested by Al Westerfield in his "how to" video.


Ed Mines


Re: A large tank as a heavy flat car load

 

Advert for the car found here: http://southern.railfan.net/flat/cars/cisx/1.jpg







Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 2:59 PM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: A large tank as a heavy flat car load





Bruce,



The car was CISX 500, built February 1941. I don't know if it was specially built for the Jumbo moves. There's a picture on Fallen Flags.





Ed



Edward Sutorik





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: A large tank as a heavy flat car load

spsalso
 

Bruce,


The car was CISX 500, built February 1941.  I don't know if it was specially built for the Jumbo moves.  There's a picture on Fallen Flags.



Ed


Edward Sutorik


ACC cement

ed_mines
 

The problem I have with ACC cement is that the container gets gacked up with dry adhesive, not that the adhesive thickens or dries out.


It's hard to get a small amount out of those beat up containers.


I've been buying small packages of ACC at the supermarket/dollar store for a long time as suggested by Al Westerfield in his "how to" video.


Ed Mines


Re: reasonable postage/shipping

Gary McMills
 

Prantles are good folks,

Gary McMills - Baton Rouge, La. 



----- Original Message -----
From:
STMFC@...

To:

Cc:

Sent:
12 Apr 2016 09:34:20 -0700
Subject:
[STMFC] Re: reasonable postage/shipping


 

Dave, that's why I'm asking here.


I've found plenty of vendors from google searches, but $7 shipping for a $3 item gets expensive fast.


I too ordered an "in stock" item from a well known hobby shop (most expensive item order) and everything but that showed up. I understand  on line inventory systems have glitsches but they should have asked me if I still wanted the order

(I would have canceled it).


Ed Mines



Re: 36-foot box car data files - second summary

John Riddell
 

Eric,
 
The following CPR boxcars seem to be close to the forthcoming Accurail kit.
 
The following is from a 1924 ORER.
 
CPR series 215000-216299   1,294 cars
36’ DS, steel roof, steel ends, straight side sill, fishbelly centre sill, ladders, IH 8, 2448 cu ft.
I have builders photo of CP 215001
 
 
CPR series 220000-220999   1,000 cars
36’ DS, steel roof, steel ends, straight side sill, fishbelly center sill,   IH  8-7, 2638 cu ft.,  built 1923
I have builders photo of CP 220425
 
 
John Riddell


Re: A large tank as a heavy flat car load

Bruce Smith
 

Brian,

Wrong era!  For those who do not know “Jumbo” was a large vessel built to contain a possible misfire of the first atomic weapon.  Ultimately, it was not used as confidence in the bomb had grown as had the supply of fissionable material.  Supposedly costing $12M, that’s a pretty expensive vessel.  One commentary calls the flat car used for the delivery “specially built” for this purpose.  Does anyone have any additional information about this flat car?

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Apr 13, 2016, at 12:04 PM, STMFC@... wrote:

At fist, I thought is was “Jumbo”, but then remembered that Jumbo wasn’t riveted.

http://www.atomicheritage.org/sites/default/files/Jumbo%20on%20specially%20constructed%20flat‐car,%20Pope,%20N.%20M..jpg

Thanks!
--
Brian Ehni


Re: A large tank as a heavy flat car load

 

At fist, I thought is was “Jumbo”, but then remembered that Jumbo wasn’t riveted.



http://www.atomicheritage.org/sites/default/files/Jumbo%20on%20specially%20constructed%20flat‐car,%20Pope,%20N.%20M..jpg





Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 at 11:47 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: A large tank as a heavy flat car load





I am not sure, but the last time I saw a similar round tank like the one in the picture, was at an old paper mill. This tank would cook straw that was used in making medium for corrugated boxes.

Dale Florence


From: modelsof1900@yahoo.com [STMFC] <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>;
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>;
Subject: [STMFC] Re: A large tank as a heavy flat car load
Sent: Wed, Apr 13, 2016 7:39:19 AM





Hallo to all and thanks for yor friendly replies!

It was a nice job that I have done in a relatively short time and I was surprised about this well looking result after first success.
And there I think as Mike. The transport procedere was going on railcar was mot longer then a short run to the pier where the vessel was reloaded into the mentioned barke. The most interest fact was "rolling" the tanks from barke to its final position ob heavy timbers, how you can see in this picture - http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/pressure-tank/naca-density-tunnel-5k.jpg.

Thanks to all for your interest and comments!

Bernhard




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: A large tank as a heavy flat car load

dale florence <dwwesley@...>
 

I am not sure, but the last time I saw a similar round tank like the one in the picture, was at an old paper mill. This tank would cook straw that was used in making medium for corrugated boxes.

Dale Florence


From: modelsof1900@... [STMFC] ;
To: ;
Subject: [STMFC] Re: A large tank as a heavy flat car load
Sent: Wed, Apr 13, 2016 7:39:19 AM



Hallo to all and thanks for yor friendly replies!

It was a nice job that I have done in a relatively short time and I was surprised about this well looking result after first success.
And there I think as Mike. The transport procedere was going on railcar was mot longer then a short run to the pier where the vessel was reloaded into the mentioned barke. The most interest fact was "rolling" the tanks from barke to its final position ob heavy timbers, how you can see in this picture - http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/pressure-tank/naca-density-tunnel-5k.jpg.

Thanks to all for your interest and comments!

Bernhard


Re: A large tank as a heavy flat car load

Bernhard Schroeter
 

Hallo to all and thanks for yor friendly replies!

It was a nice job that I have done in a relatively short time and I was surprised about this well looking result after first success.
And there I think as Mike. The transport procedere was going on railcar was mot longer then a short run to the pier where the vessel was reloaded into the mentioned barke. The most interest fact was "rolling" the tanks from barke to its final position ob heavy timbers, how you can see in this picture - http://us-modelsof1900.de/wp-content/gallery/pressure-tank/naca-density-tunnel-5k.jpg.

Thanks to all for your interest and comments!

Bernhard


Re: A large tank as a heavy flat car load

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 


Hi Bernhard,
 
Extraordinary work! Wonderful!
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 1:00 AM
Subject: [STMFC] A large tank as a heavy flat car load


Some time ago I found this picture of a really impressive and heavy load! See - Variable Density Tunnel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was a very fascinating load to me and so I hoped to find solutions for all needed things and techniques for modeling, load including car.

Ok, I found all what I thought to need for a realization - building a boiler, rivet plates and a fitting flatcar.
I made a scale drawing on base of 33" wheel diameter and so I received a few basic dates - plus/minus a few small deviations. The flat car should have a length of 36' and the pressure tank has 15 ft in diameter, the length of it is a bit shorter then the car - 34.5 ft.

Additionally I searched in web for more information. That was a great help to find more details and many pictures after I found the use and correct name of this pressure tank - Variable Density Tunnel of NASA for development of air planes and parts, especially wing forms under different pressure conditions, especially in vacuum.
The tunnel was built in 1921/22 and delivered to NACA, now NASA Langley Research Center in Virginia and so it was normally, that this pressure tank has a riveted construction. Today the tunnel is exhibited in Park of NASA Langley Research Center as a ''National Historic Landmark'' of Virginia.


Please look my new album here for some more pictures or visit a gallery with a complete history of this project in pictures on my website including many more pictures of prototype.


Sorry for my not so good English however I hope for understanding and your interest.

(Some more pictures will be added to the album here today.)



Re: perishable traffic patterns

Todd Sullivan
 

Really interesting data, Charles. 

A question: How did you determine the number of interchanges for each load?  I understand the numbers of originating ("Orig") and terminating ("Term") loads, but I didn't think you included data on the number of times a load was interchanged (which, I assume, means an inter-railroad movement).

Todd Sullivan
Modeling E. Portland OR in 1952
in Liverpool, NY


Re: perishable traffic patterns

Charles Hostetler
 

Tony:

Thanks for your recent post regarding modeling waybills depicting perishable diversions and reconsignments.  As you pointed out, a number of commodities were moved with diversions.  A while back I got interested in the problem of identifying which commodities were most commonly diverted.  After looking at the few waybills I had that appeared to be diversions, I took a look at the ICC Freight Commodity Statistics that tabulate (by commodity class) the number of carloads originated, terminated, and total handled.  My hypothesis was based on the notion that loads that were diverted tended to have more interchanges in their routes.  Hence the total number of carloads handled for commodities that tended to be diverted would be greater in proportion to the number of carload originated or terminated than for ordinary commodities.  

These data are from 1952, they are in carloads, and they are national totals (not a sample like the 1% carload waybill survey).  

For all carload commodities in 1952:

Class Orig Term Total Ratio
Carload Traffic 32,847,481 31,559,706 66,819,697 1.034

[For those interested in the details, the Ratio = the total carloads handled / the greater of the carloads originated or terminated - 1}

This suggests that the average carload of freight is interchanged about once per route.  

Here are a couple of commodities that aren't interchanged much at al and their rations are close to zero, that is they tend to stay on a single railroad with no interchange from start to finishl:

Class Orig Term Total Ratio
Flaxseed 18,376 18,729 22,275 0.189
Beverages NOS 13,630 14,010 16,250 0.160
Sugar beets 144,730 141,286 165,641 0.144
Logs 346,740 360,338 402,564 0.117
Ice 20,793 20,311 21,904 0.053
Copper ore 19,045 99,547 104,201 0.047
Anthracite coal breakers 293,909 294,397 294,716 0.001


and these are the 26 commodities with the most interchanges per trip (top 10% of all commodities):

Class Orig Term Total Ratio
Tomatoes 21,725 25,203 102,544 3.069
Celery 26,388 27,793 111,477 3.011
Lemons limes 10,740 13,226 53,010 3.008
Canteloupes 28,257 29,623 117,613 2.970
Oranges grapefruits 82,114 81,399 324,319 2.950
Cigarettes 11,052 10,902 43,144 2.904
Watermelons 21,812 22,285 86,571 2.885
Vegetables fresh NOS 69,036 74,824 284,549 2.803
Copper ingot matte pig 15,836 16,663 63,196 2.793
Grapes fresh 25,799 27,870 105,298 2.778
Lettuce 82,174 79,505 302,419 2.680
Cabbage 15,036 14,746 54,796 2.644
Manuf tobacco NOS 1,514 1,572 5,704 2.628
Fruits dried 6,380 6,291 22,889 2.588
Food frozen 9,257 9,656 33,815 2.502
Cotton cloth 13,681 14,855 51,612 2.474
Matches 3,951 3,887 13,690 2.465
Pears fresh 14,713 15,333 52,845 2.446
Fruits frozen 4,255 4,624 15,782 2.413
Candy confectionery 15,086 14,460 50,946 2.377
Peaches fresh 13,936 13,898 46,113 2.309
Wine 18,570 21,094 69,345 2.287
Fruits fresh NOS 10,620 10,274 34,596 2.258
Aluminum NOS 21,139 21,543 69,377 2.220
Drugs medicines 8,657 8,639 27,714 2.201
Vegetables frozen 10,473 10,732 34,056 2.173

Note that perishables dominate this list, which I think is quite interesting.  Also note that some of the "high interchange" commodities probably weren't diverted much (e.g., manufactured tobacco, copper, aluminum and drugs); the relatively high number of interchanges probably more reflects the restricted geographic production areas and the long distance and complicated routes to the points of termination.  But on the whole I thought these data support the idea that modeling diversions for selected commodities (like perishables) was a reasonable way to add variety without unduly emphasizing very rare events.  

These data are available on a yearly basis from sometime in the early 1920s through at least 1960.  In addition to the national data I showed here they are also available for each individual Class 1 railroad.  Thanks again for an interesting post!

Regards,

Charles Hostetler
Washington Ill.

50941 - 50960 of 192765