Date   

Re: MAINLINE MODELER a different point

Dave Nelson
 

Other than May 1990 I have them all.  I entirely agree with your comment below.  My point was as time rolled along the hobby changed and the magazine didn’t keep up.  I asked him personally why he didn’t allow  his very fine work to be used to make masters for resin casting and was told, bluntly, NOBODY ever builds resin kits. I said I do and he completely dismissed my answer.  I certainly would have purchased resin kits of his stuff.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 1:07 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] MAINLINE MODELER a different point

 

Dave Nelson, I am not sure how far back you go with your collection of Mainline, perhaps not as far, but the further you travel the more you engage. 

 

 

Greg Martin


Re: NKP-WLE 24200-24501 boxcars

Bill Welch
 

This is a good resource to know about. Thank you for the URL Ray. I did not that some of the freight data needs to be updated. For example F&C has two Reading box/auto models not listed.

Bill Welch


Re: Scale Etched Chains

Bill Welch
 

Thanks Allen, I noticed that detail after I sent the message. Neat nonetheless.

Bill Welch


Re: NKP-WLE 24200-24501 boxcars

Rob M.
 

Protocraft offers the cars in O scale in brass by Boo Rim.  Decal sets are also offered.

Norm's web site includes pictures of both cars:

http://www.protocraft.com/category.cfm?ItemID=981&Categoryid=45  TC 7955 and  510

 

http://www.protocraft.com/category.cfm?ItemID=982&Categoryid=45 WLE 24260 and 20208 , NKP 24226

 



Rob Mondichak


Re: MAINLINE MODELER a different point

Bill Decker
 

Greg,

Thank you for your recollections--AND contributions!--on the foundation and ultimate influence of Mainline Modeler.  Bob Hundman truly accomplished what he set out to do--provide a forum for high quality modeling and information for standard gauge, mainline modelers.  Before MM, the narrow gauge folk "seemed" to have a lock on quality modeling.  MM helped us stand up and say, yes, we, too, can do high quality, prototype-based modeling.

Our hobby is far richer today because of Bob H's publishing efforts (warts and all).  MM provided a forum for modelers and rail historians to push the frontiers for standard gauge.  It provided an entre for several on this list to the development folk for manufacturers large and small to raise the bar toward prototype modeling.  Those well-detailed (and occasionally actually fairly accurate) mass-produced, ready to roll (actually ready to complete...) steam era freight cars now in the market place.  

In today's world, this list continues that process as do the many individual rail historical societies, a number of which now produce and market steam era freight cars for our use.  The market demand was identified through Bob H's efforts with MM.

Bill Decker


Re: NKP-WLE 24200-24501 boxcars

Ray Breyer
 


 

Ray Breyer 
Elgin, IL



From: "Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 9:30 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NKP-WLE 24200-24501 boxcars


Ed Mines wrote:
"There is an alphabet route website which has freight car diagrams for both W&LE and NKP, including these cars."

A URL would be nice.

Ben Hom


Re: NKP-WLE 24200-24501 boxcars

gary laakso
 

Who makes the decals for a WLE version using the WrightTrak version?
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
 

Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NKP-WLE 24200-24501 boxcars
 
 

The WrightTrak offers the Tenn. Central car albeit w/poling pockets and separate Superior doors. Mine built up into a very satisfying model. Seems like a good start on the WLE version.

 
Bill Welch


Re: Santa Mineral Brown

John Barry
 

Ken,

Then you probably want to use the redder TCP-251 post 45 mineral brown and ATSF reporting marks.  If you are modelling a long un-repainted caboose with A.T.S.F or rarer A.T.&S.F. (for your era) repaint, use the TCP-019.  Color is simpler for my 1944 era.

I highly recommend Richard Hendrickson's updated painting and lettering guide published by the Santa Fe Historical and Modelling Society.  SFRHMS Books
I have the first edition and recently purchased the update.  Diesel and Steam locomotive painting and lettering guides are also available on the same URL.
 
John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736



From: "kobrien1600@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Santa Mineral Brown

 
John, these are for the 1951-1953 time frame. Thanks for the assist.



Re: NKP-WLE 24200-24501 boxcars

Bill Welch
 

The WrightTrak offers the Tenn. Central car albeit w/poling pockets and separate Superior doors. Mine built up into a very satisfying model. Seems like a good start on the WLE version.

Bill Welch


Re: Scale Etched Chains

Allen Ferguson
 

Bill:
These are not etched but laser cut card stock like material.
Allen


Re: NKP-WLE 24200-24501 boxcars

Ed Hawkins
 

Garth and Al,
The NKP diagram lumps two separate series of cars into one series WLE 24000-24501, built in Jan. to March 1941 to 1937 AAR standards with 10’ IH, 10-panel riveted sides, 6’ door openings, and 7-rung side & end ladders. All 502 cars came with “A.A.R. Rigid Riveted-Car Builder” (flat-panel) roofs manufactured by Pullman-Standard, Equipco hand brakes, wood running boards, and Youngstown doors. Both series of cars received proprietary ends of different designs from American Car & Foundry and Pullman-Standard.

WLE 24000-24199 built by ACF (lot 2137) came with round-corner 4-4 ACF Corrugated ends. The Pullman-supplied roofs used on cars built by ACF were unusual since ACF normally manufactured roofs of this type. 

WLE 24200-24501 built by Pullman-Standard (lot 5649) came with round-corner 4-5 Pullman ends, which were the same as those used on TC 7900-7999 that have been discussed before on the STMFC, except that the TC cars had push-pole pockets not used on the WLE cars. The corrugations tapered to a point as they wrapped around the round corner. The cars also came with Apex brake steps. Jay Williams offers a Pullman-Standard builder photo of WLE 24260. 

Trucks on 24000-24199 & 24300-24501 were National Type B. WLE 24200-24299 received double-truss spring-plankless trucks. In Feb. 1944, 10 cars of random car numbers had their trucks replaced with A-3 Ride Control. 

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


On May 26, 2016, at 3:35 AM, Garth Groff sarahsan@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Al,

I'm a bit confused about these cars too. Stan Rydarowicz wrote an article about them in the March 2001 RMJ, but lumped all the W&LE cars into one group, 24000-24501. His article includes a builder's photo of 24232 and a builder's ohoto of 24260, both 4/5 end cars. He notes that the W&LE cars did not have polling pockets. There is not information about 4/4 ends on a separate lot from AC&F, possibly because he no information about them. Stan used the RC kit for his models, keeping the raised panel roofs.

The June 1987 MODEL RAILROADING has an unattributed article with a photo of an AC&F lightweight B&LE boxcar with 4/4 ends, built in 1939. There are diagrams which show the wales to be thinner (thus more widely spaced) and extending all the way to the corners of the end stamping. Drawings for the PS wales show them to be fatter, less pointed, and stopping short of the edges by several inches. The article discusses them only in the context of the experimental 1930s lightweight cars such as the so-called PS-0 boxcars offered in kit form by F&C.

I also found a photo in the February 1987 MODEL RAILROADING that shows a W&LE car. The number is hard to read, but it looks like 24232 again. The ends are quite clear.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff



On 5/25/16 6:42 PM, Allan Smith smithal9@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
I have conductors lists from the Sierra RR from 1952-1954. Four cars are listed NKP 24231 24449 & WLE 24281 24476.These cars were built by PS lot 5649 for the WLE. The WLE was incorperated into the NKP in 1947.  I've checked the 1937 boxcar list at SEFC site and the boxcar survey prototype site. I am a little confused by the info from these sites and would like verification of the types of ends and roof . 
The WLE 24200-24501 built 1941 by PS had the PS-0 4/5 dartnaught ends with a (murphy raised panel roof?).
The WLE  24000-24199 built 1941 by ACF lot 2137 had ACF dartnot 4/4 ends and a (Pullman flat panel roof?).
All the photos I can find don't show enough detail to determine the type of roof. I find it strange that a Pullman flat panel roof would be installed by ACF.
I have Pullman PS-0 ends and I would like to build at least one model for the NKP and one for WLE. I can't proceed until I have verfication of the roof type for these cars. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Al Smith
Sonora CA



Re: NKP-WLE 24200-24501 boxcars

Benjamin Hom
 


Ed Mines wrote:
"There is an alphabet route website which has freight car diagrams for both W&LE and NKP, including these cars."

A URL would be nice.

Ben Hom


Re: NKP-WLE 24200-24501 boxcars

ed_mines
 

There is an alphabet route website which has freight car diagrams for both W&LE and NKP, including these cars.


Ed Mines



Re: ADMIN: Mainline Modeler

mwbauers
 

I certainly  agree that this magazine is nearly essential to a model railroader that wants true miniatures for his layout.

I think this magazine was on-line with that site that got mostly destroyed with some sort of never repaired server corruption a couple of years ago, was it Train-life ?

I’d like to ask if anyone knows of this magazine being offered on CD or some other digital media?

I have a few treasured copies of the magazine and would like to have more of them on the usually easier to obtain cd or other digital media. Mainly because the originally published magazines are such a challenge to otherwise obtain.

Thanks guys.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On May 26, 2016, at 5:16 AM, 'Scott H. Haycock '  wrote:


Since the history of the evolution of prototype freight car modeling is now officially approved, may I bring up another magazine for comment? 

Between slapping Walthers or Champ decals on Athearn and MDC undecorated cars, and the resin revolution, was kitbashing. This is still around, for example in the annual Shake and Take group build.

The magazine which, in my opinion, brought this method of more accurate freight car modeling into its own was Prototype Modeler. While this wasn't a glossy publication, with a high end art department, it went where no magazine had gone before.

To this day, I value my collection of PM second only to MM, as far as general hobby magazines go. 



Re: ADMIN: Mainline Modeler

Jared Harper
 


Mike,

I was wondering what was taking you so long to respond.

Jared Harper

---In STMFC@..., <brockm@...> wrote :

ADMIN: Guys,

For the last week or so, the STMFC has been the recipient of many thoughtful
comments regarding the "late" magazine, Mainline Modeler [MM]. Discussion
about this magazine is one of those things that lead to more rules than is
desired...i.e., an attempt to list those things that can be discussed and
those that cannot. In the case of MM, I'm not going to wade through the many
rules to determine its "in scope" evaluation and given that MM was a VERY
significant part of the development of prototype modeling, discussion about
it will be within scope until diminishing returns occur. We are going to
treat discussions about MM [ for the time being ] as if the magazine were a
frt car. Hence, the rules about frt cars will apply:

"Members are permitted to criticize or praise manufacturer's products free
from criticism from other members. Criticism of a manufacturer's business
practices is, however, not within the scope of the group."

So, the magazine's qualities may be criticized or praised free from
criticism by other members. In addition, the MM business practice's
including those by organizations performing associated functions such as
publishing archival information [ CD's ] are not within scope on the STMFC.
IOW, the cost of CD's regarding MM is out of scope...just as is the cost of
a particular model of a frt car.

Believe me, guys, this is best...and certainly best for the group owner [
me ].

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Print vs. Screen

Jared Harper
 



I have been razorblading my MR's and RMC's for years keeping articles for immediate and future use.  The remains go into the give away bin at the library.

Jared Harper
Athens, GA

---In STMFC@..., <sarahsan@...> wrote :

Friends,

My turn to throw something out here. To save space (including during my
stint living in a monastery as a non-monastic), I have for years edited
my magazines with an Xacto knife, a steel ruler, and a supply of file
folders. Let's face it, 90% of the content in most magazines probably
isn't worth saving, and if I miss something, I will probably forget it
soon enough. I mostly save freight car articles, plus more general stuff
about my favorite lines, and have a few folders devoted to scenery or
structures. I've also printed and saved many posts by our late guru and
friend, Richard Hendrickson, and yes Tony, some of yours too. That's
still a lot of paper when you consider I've been butchering magazines
for over 40 years. Occasionally some of the stuff that is no longer
relevant, or has been succeeded by better models/techniques,. will get
weeded. You can't keep everything forever.

I refuse to chop up my complete collection of GAZETTES, a few old
FINELINES I have collected, RPCs, or Ted's publications. For the latter
two, it wouldn't be worth chopping them, because I want everything.

For the past couple of years I've been buying some British mags (all
recently dropped by Barnes & Noble), since I take an interest in
English/Welsh O-scale narrow gauge. This stuff goes into binders, just a
couple so far.

Would I buy a DVD? Maybe if there was one on a railroad I am especially
interested in. Otherwise, I have enough projects and articles to keep me
busy in my pending retirement until the end, or maybe until I can no
longer hang onto my flush cutters.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff


Re: Santa Mineral Brown

Ken O'Brien
 

John, these are for the 1951-1953 time frame. Thanks for the assist.


Re: ADMIN: Mainline Modeler

Scott H. Haycock
 

Mike,

Well considered, and well adjudicated. I can imagine the headache!

Since the history of the evolution of prototype freight car modeling is now officially approved, may I bring up another magazine for comment? 

Between slapping Walthers or Champ decals on Athearn and MDC undecorated cars, and the resin revolution, was kitbashing. This is still around, for example in the annual Shake and Take group build.

The magazine which, in my opinion, brought this method of more accurate freight car modeling into its own was Prototype Modeler. While this wasn't a glossy publication, with a high end art department, it went where no magazine had gone before.

To this day, I value my collection of PM second only to MM, as far as general hobby magazines go. 



Scott Haycock


 

ADMIN: Guys,

For the last week or so, the STMFC has been the recipient of many thoughtful
comments regarding the "late" magazine, Mainline Modeler [MM]. Discussion
about this magazine is one of those things that lead to more rules than is
desired...i.e., an attempt to list those things that can be discussed and
those that cannot. In the case of MM, I'm not going to wade through the many
rules to determine its "in scope" evaluation and given that MM was a VERY
significant part of the development of prototype modeling, discussion about
it will be within scope until diminishing returns occur. We are going to
treat discussions about MM [ for the time being ] as if the magazine were a
frt car. Hence, the rules about frt cars will apply:

"Members are permitted to criticize or praise manufacturer's products free
from criticism from other members. Criticism of a manufacturer's business
practices is, however, not within the scope of the group."

So, the magazine's qualities may be criticized or praised free from
criticism by other members. In addition, the MM business practice's
including those by organizations performing associated functions such as
publishing archival information [ CD's ] are not within scope on the STMFC.
IOW, the cost of CD's regarding MM is out of scope...just as is the cost of
a particular model of a frt car.

Believe me, guys, this is best...and certainly best for the group owner [
me ].

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner




Re: NKP-WLE 24200-24501 boxcars

Garth Groff <sarahsan@...>
 

Al,

I'm a bit confused about these cars too. Stan Rydarowicz wrote an article about them in the March 2001 RMJ, but lumped all the W&LE cars into one group, 24000-24501. His article includes a builder's photo of 24232 and a builder's ohoto of 24260, both 4/5 end cars. He notes that the W&LE cars did not have polling pockets. There is not information about 4/4 ends on a separate lot from AC&F, possibly because he no information about them. Stan used the RC kit for his models, keeping the raised panel roofs.

The June 1987 MODEL RAILROADING has an unattributed article with a photo of an AC&F lightweight B&LE boxcar with 4/4 ends, built in 1939. There are diagrams which show the wales to be thinner (thus more widely spaced) and extending all the way to the corners of the end stamping. Drawings for the PS wales show them to be fatter, less pointed, and stopping short of the edges by several inches. The article discusses them only in the context of the experimental 1930s lightweight cars such as the so-called PS-0 boxcars offered in kit form by F&C.

I also found a photo in the February 1987 MODEL RAILROADING that shows a W&LE car. The number is hard to read, but it looks like 24232 again. The ends are quite clear.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff



On 5/25/16 6:42 PM, Allan Smith smithal9@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
I have conductors lists from the Sierra RR from 1952-1954. Four cars are listed NKP 24231 24449 & WLE 24281 24476.These cars were built by PS lot 5649 for the WLE. The WLE was incorperated into the NKP in 1947.  I've checked the 1937 boxcar list at SEFC site and the boxcar survey prototype site. I am a little confused by the info from these sites and would like verification of the types of ends and roof .
The WLE 24200-24501 built 1941 by PS had the PS-0 4/5 dartnaught ends with a (murphy raised panel roof?).
The WLE  24000-24199 built 1941 by ACF lot 2137 had ACF dartnot 4/4 ends and a (Pullman flat panel roof?).
All the photos I can find don't show enough detail to determine the type of roof. I find it strange that a Pullman flat panel roof would be installed by ACF.
I have Pullman PS-0 ends and I would like to build at least one model for the NKP and one for WLE. I can't proceed until I have verfication of the roof type for these cars. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Al Smith
Sonora CA


Re: MAINLINE MODELER a different point

Greg Martin
 

Nelson and Schuyler,
 
 
Just to remind Schuyler the charter issue was the beginning of Bob Zenk's SP PA article where by he took a piece of Chicken Poop and created a lovely Chicken Soup! The work stands up to anyone's work even today BECAUSE Athearn's nose is much closer than other offerings in styrene. 
 
Scratch building was a passion of Bob's and I can understand the passion as my own brother was of the same clan, he felt that a boxcar was just, in the smallest is common denominator, just that, a box. If you recall my brother Ed Martin scratch built not one but three "Q" stock cars and presented one. Bob was not to be out done and re-created the same car in a different technique.  My brother liked the "lark" and would jump scale and modeling O Scale often or Proto 48 and has several projects in that scale.
 
I believe that Bob's passion for styrene scratch building came directly from his relationship with the late Al Armitage, a long time styrene scratch builder, a tool and die man for Revell and draftsman, left handed to boot. (Right in Schuyler's league of champions) Those that know how to tell will find it in his drawings. Bob tried desperately to get Al to model a project for Mainline, but Al told him that he was just not interested  at his age, and I hear the same from Bob now... I hope I can be like Richard Hendrickson and continue to model until I have to take the mail train home...
 
Dave Nelson, I am not sure how far back you go with your collection of Mainline, perhaps not as far, but the further you travel the more you engage.  The articles that most impressed me were the articles that Mont Switzer would present, he became a mentor to both my brother and myself, truly inspiring... He modeled at "my level", attainable excellence... 
 
Let us not forget the exquisite articles presented by Bob Chapman, his mastery of pen, his accomplished eye for photography and his knowledge through research of subject and his close calculation all lent itself to a very exciting article even if you hated the C&O or L&N or the PRR. Truly amazing another comrade and mentor, these you could truly challenge yourself with.
 
The volumes of prototype articles that found their way into the pages are outstanding, like Martin Lofton's article on the PRR F30a and the other works presented by countless authors...
 
To focus on Bob and not look into the heart of Mainline is a pity.
 
Again, let me remind you all that in Bob's own words he believed that Mainline made this fellowship smaller and let me remind you that in my opinion some may say we may be small but we are mighty...
 
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean
 
In a message Schuyler Larrabee writes:

It didn't start that way, Dave. Bob Zenk's articles in the first few
issues, on rebuilding a commercial diesel model (I don't remember for sure
the locomotive - a PA? - but I seem to think it was SP) was a bash job, and
was spectacular. I still think about it. All my complete set of MM are in
boxes in the basement waiting for me to finish, already, the renovation of
the room

I remember one article which he published "Part 1" but there was never a
"Part 2." I don't recall what it was but I was very interested in it.

But later on, when I had the sense that Bob was scratchbuilding some things
just so he'd have an article to publish, it was all scratchbuilding, or so
it felt.

Schuyler

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