Date   

Re: Terminology Correctness - was Re: Friction Bearings

thecitrusbelt@...
 


I would agree with you if this group were a chat room. But this group largely deals in history and it does make more sense to use industry-established terms over railroad slang.

Think about discussion involving trucks...should we just call them all Bettendorf or "old time" or should be actually distinguish the truck type under discussion by using the name and model designated by the manufacture?
If we are going to be concerned with accuracy when it comes to freight car doors, ends, etc., why not extend that precision to the terms we use for other parts of the freight car?

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Terminology Correctness - was Re: Friction Bearings

Jim Betz
 

Hi all,

I don't see -any- reason to get your panties in a bunch ... we -all- know what the person
who is speaking/posting means ... and the frequency of EITHER term (in all the cases
where we have these kinds of "disputes") is often enough that it is futile to argue for
one or the other. If you prefer "roof walks" then use it. If you prefer "running boards"
then use that. There are lots and lots of arguments for either side of any of these
discussions ... and neither of them is "correct" (in all contexts).
It should not surprise you that someone uses the brakeman's terms and someone
else uses the CBC/Engineering Departments terminology. In fact - I'm certain that
when the Engineering Dept talked to a brakeman the brakeman didn't have a
problem "translating".

===> But please stop trying to make one or the other as the "correct" term.

On the other hand - there are terms in common use in the hobby - that are "hobby
only/created terms". An example of this is "pongers" for "diaphragms" - and there
are lots of others.
I don't have a problem with using the correct/common industry term in those cases.
But I guess my bottom line is I still don't see the need to repeatedly let the world know
that I "take offense" at someone's use of a hobby only term.

If someone is using a term that they made up - and only they use - then I just "write
them off as someone to be ignored" and skip their posts ...

- get over it and get back to Freight Cars ... Jim B.


Re: Rutland Wheel Reports - Reefers (was Re: NYC Covered Hoppers)

Eric Hansmann
 

Thanks for the extra data, Ted! It seems we need some annual reports to determine more details of the 1920s DSDX fleet.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2016 5:51 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: Rutland Wheel Reports - Reefers (was Re: [STMFC] NYC Covered Hoppers)

 



Hi Eric,

in the 1/28 ORER is a detailed roster for DSDX

(note the lengths are inside, between bulkheads)

#90 to 94  32' 2"
300 to 999 30' 10"
1400-1899 no dimensions
2500-2599 20' 2" (20' is correct.  must be old, short cars)
50000-8999 32' 2"

There are no individual car quantities, only a total of 560 cars.  This is a new listing submitted 1/1928. 

Just checked 12/31 ORER and there are more class series listed,  but no quantities, not even a total car count.

Ted


At 01:48 PM 6/2/2016, you wrote:



My October 1926 ORER has the following notes for DSDX cars.
 
 
The refrigerator (M.C.B. designation RS) cars of this Company are marked Dairy Shippers Despatch and D.S.D.X., and numbered 200 to 999 inclusive; inside dimensions: length 30 ft. 10 in., width, 8 ft., 2 in., height 7 ft. 4 in., capacity, 1800 cu. ft., 60,000 pounds (ice bunker capacity 5800 pounds crushed ice, 4600 pounds chunk ice, 125 cu. ft. measure of capacity). Total, 240 cars.
 
This entry is dated July 1926.
 
 
There seems to be conflicting info here. The statement of numbered 200 to 999, inclusive does not mesh with the final note of, Total, 240 cars. Unless the company was receiving new reefers during this 1926 time and not all had been placed into service. Can anyone consult a 1927 or 1928 ORER for additional detail?
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX

Hello,

Just pulled a March 1925 ORER and DSDX is listed as Dairy Shippers Despatch and had cars numbered between 200 and 999, but no total was given for the cars in service.  1925 sure predates 1951, in the article quoted below.  As probation was on, maybe the cars actually shipped dairy products or at least "near milk" from brewers.

Ted

Rails Unlimited
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Re: Truck mounting

Eric Hansmann
 

Don,

 

If you don’t have a stash of Kadee T-Section Bettendorf trucks on hand, why not use the Walthers version? These were introduced recently in their Proto line (920-2007) and they seem like new tooling, but I don’t have an older pair for a comparison. Sadly, these are sprung (with shiny springs) but they have a larger bolster hole the may accommodate the ring in the body bolder. The wheelbase is 5-foot, 6-inches.

 

We could use an unsprung, HO scale, T-Section Bettendorf truck. Red Caboose once offered them, but they haven’t been available for a few years. A model of Tahoe quality and a slightly shorter wheelbase of 5-foot, 4-inches would be great on the forthcoming Accurail 36-foot double sheathed box cars.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2016 7:10 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Truck mounting

 




Hello folks,

 

     In enlarging my fleet of Rutland #8000 and #9000 series boxcars six more of Dennis Storzeks 

kits for these double sheathed NYC cars have been assembled. As many of you know, these are

resin kits in which the body bolsters are soft metal castings. The castings were designed to accept 

truck having a large enough hole in their bolster to slip over the ring of the body bolster. The 

prototype used Bettendorf T-section trucks and I prefer to use the Kadee trucks of that style on

the models. However, the bolster of the Kadee trucks will have to be drilled out to slip over the 

ring of the body bolster unless it is filed off. In looking at models of these cars assembled some

years ago I found that on some I had filled the body bolster smooth at this point but on some

had drilled out the truck bolster to slip over the ring. I've not noticed any difference in the 

operation of the two different methods used to mount the trucks but wonder how others have

mounted trucks on such body bolsters and what their experience might have been. Any 

thoughts based on actual experience, not "theory" would be appreciated. 

 

Cordially, Don Valentine



Fw: Reefer trains

mrprksr <mrprksr@...>
 

TRS stood for Trash, Rubbish and Shit!!!    Retired PRR Conductor.... most symbols had enployee names!!

On Monday, June 6, 2016 8:44 AM, "'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Steve,

On the PRR there were “TRS” trains that were specifically designate to expedite empty tank cars, reefers and stock cars west.  These were reduced in number in the late 1930s and even more so post WWII.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jun 5, 2016, at 10:48 PM, STMFC@... wrote:


Steve Sandifer writes:


"We all have seen the photos of complete or nearly complete ice reefer
trains going from the west coast toward the east. My question concerns how
they returned empty. In high demand seasons, did the railroad give priority
to taking compete trains of EMPTY cars back to the west, or were the empties
interspersed with other cars in manifest freights?"

Without conducting a thorough study, I can say that my UP Frt Conductor's
book indicates that frt train consists traveling west between Laramie and
Rawlins, WY, included MT PFE reefer trains in 1949. OTOH, only two in the 17
or so west bound MT PFE trains were primarily PFE reefers.

UP did have trains dedicated  strongly to specific functions. Hence, there
were lumber trains, tank car trains [ loaded eastbound and MT west bound
headed to Sinclair, WY ]. Similarly, there were stock trains headed west.
Add to that trains of coal...usually for company use. Many WBs were
merchandise trains that could contain just about anything. Of course the
consists of loaded reefer trains would depend upon the time of year. My frt
conductor book contains data from April 1949 and the PFE trains are carrying
a large number of spuds.

Having said the above, UP seems to have "filled" out trains of a specific
item like cattle, oil, lumber, PFE  loads or MT's with other stuff. It's
never simple.

Mike Brock




------------------------------------
Posted by: "Mike Brock" <brockm@...>
------------------------------------


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Re: plastic solvent cements - again

mwbauers
 

I discovered that I had a couple of stored away Plastruct cement bottles that had allowed some of the contents to seep away.

I resorted to a very vintage ‘fix’ that I once read about……

I smeared the bottle threads with Vaseline petroleum jelly and re-closed them. I don’t know if that’s a great fix for this. But it does work well for sealing our model paint jars. If it slows down the evaporation of the solvent when closed up, I’ll be satisfied.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Jun 6, 2016, at 9:25 AM, Craig Zeni > wrote:


I accidentally left the lid off my bottle last week and the next day most/all of the solvent was still there. I recall leaving the lid cracked on my Testors and/or Tenax and after a day or two it was gone.

Hope this helps.
The Ambroid ProWeld was good stuff but went unavailable. It's now been duplicated by Minuteman Models...saw it at the RPM in Enfield CT last weekend along with a full and glorious selection of Scalecoat II paint on his table. It warmed my heart to see it all available as it's still my preferred paint.


Re: Friction Bearings

Brad Smith
 

On the MILW, it was a "running board".  Different roads had different terms for things.
 
Brad Smith


Re: Friction Bearings

 

Just because you call something a “thingamabob” doesn’t mean that’s the correct name for it.





Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni



From: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, June 6, 2016 at 10:42 AM
To: STMFC List <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Friction Bearings





Robert Simpson wrote:





Why should we "stick to the CBD" & a railfan term? Who made them "official" arbiters of railroad terminology?



Actually, like the entire Car Builders' Cyclopedia, as it says on the title page, "compiled and edited for the Association of American Railroads – Mechanical Division," and the editorial work was done by people from Railway Age, supervised by an AAR Advisory Committee.

Sorry, Mr. Simpson, the CBD terns are not railfan terms. And the title page info tells you who made them the "official" arbiters.

Numerous railroaders have told me, "we always called it a roofwalk." Maybe so, but that term appears in no CBD. Instead, it is always "running board." It is quite interesting what working railroaders called things, and I don't mean to disparage working language. But if we are going to settle on preferred terms, I think using the language chosen by Railway Age and supervised by the AAR is entirely suitable.



Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com

(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@signaturepress.com

Publishers of books on railroad history













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Friction Bearings

Greg Martin
 

Robert Simpson wrote:

 
Why should we "stick to the CBD" & a railfan term?  Who made them "official" arbiters of railroad terminology?
And Tony Thompson replies:

 
     Actually, like the entire Car Builders' Cyclopedia, as it says on the title page, "compiled and edited for the Association of American Railroads – Mechanical Division," and the editorial work was done by people from Railway Age, supervised by an AAR Advisory Committee.
      Sorry, Mr. Simpson, the CBD terns are not railfan terms. And the title page info tells you who made them the "official" arbiters. 
      Numerous railroaders have told me, "we always called it a roofwalk." Maybe so, but that term appears in no CBD. Instead, it is always "running board." It is quite interesting what working railroaders called things, and I don't mean to disparage working language. But if we are going to settle on preferred terms, I think using the language chosen by Railway Age and supervised by the AAR is entirely suitable.

Tony Thompson 
 
 
I want to follow Tony's suggestion, being the good student. For the most part I do but my bad habits get in the way, like when I use the term "Keystone on the Ball" or "Ball Keystone" which I believe to have been a "shop term" on the PRR as that is what I recall from those I knew that worked in the shops in Conway, PA growing up and it stuck. But there is no supporting or little supporting documentation for the terms. Circle Keystone seems to be less descriptive than the other two, but I use Circle Keystone for the most part for the damned Ball Keystone emblem thingie...  3^)
 
The one term that I detest the most is the use of "Hat Section" and I am not sure of where it comes from or if it was in the CBC or not, but the steel industry term for this piece of shaped metal is Round Edged Flanged Channel or REFC. I have been reminded that, "who cares what the steel industry calls it the railroads called it Hat Section". I haven't seen a reference cited, but I stick to my standards and don't call it hat section.
 
The point is there are likely several terms for a thingie...  The slang term often prevails even if it is a corruption of the word, like "irregardless" (even now my spell checker wants to change it) but our culture excepts it either way and often with correction... "Schools in" and we should follow the correct term to the best of our abilities.
 
Greg Martin
 
Eventually all things merge into one and a river runs through it.
Norman Maclean 
 


Re: Friction Bearings

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 6/6/2016 8:42 AM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:
Numerous railroaders have told me, "we always called it a roofwalk." Maybe so, but that term appears in no CBD. Instead, it is always "running board."

    I think in the era we are working in that the brakeman (or whoever was up there) was running, not walking, hence the term.  There are most likely pictures to support this! GRIN

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Friction Bearings

Tony Thompson
 

Robert Simpson wrote:

 
Why should we "stick to the CBD" & a railfan term?  Who made them "official" arbiters of railroad terminology?

     Actually, like the entire Car Builders' Cyclopedia, as it says on the title page, "compiled and edited for the Association of American Railroads – Mechanical Division," and the editorial work was done by people from Railway Age, supervised by an AAR Advisory Committee.
      Sorry, Mr. Simpson, the CBD terns are not railfan terms. And the title page info tells you who made them the "official" arbiters. 
      Numerous railroaders have told me, "we always called it a roofwalk." Maybe so, but that term appears in no CBD. Instead, it is always "running board." It is quite interesting what working railroaders called things, and I don't mean to disparage working language. But if we are going to settle on preferred terms, I think using the language chosen by Railway Age and supervised by the AAR is entirely suitable.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Speaking of PFE and Red Caboose. . .

paul.doggett2472 <paul.doggett2472@...>
 

Yes ordered mine about 2 1/2 weeks ago.
Paul Doggett UK




Sent from Samsung mobile

"fgexbill@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

. . .has anyone noticed that Speedwitch has announced a new "Focus on Freight Cars" with Reefers as the subject matter. Ted said there are several examples for modeling the Red Caboose kits. The subject matter is primarily PFE (66%) and secondarily NWX (33%). The photos have never been published anywhere and there are many detail photos. Just a reminder that the subject matter is dependent on the collection he has accessed and is printing.


http://speedwitchmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/fofc3_cover-front.jpg


Bill Welch


Re: A POSITIVE SPIN ON NEGATIVES

Rex Racer
 

Obviously neither of you were ripped off by Gerry Glow. Yes, he had some great decals and for awhile provided a valuable service to other model railroaders, but that came to a stop when he continued to take peoples money with NO expectation of fulfilling their orders. I ordered a bunch of decals from him and he PROMISED to be sending them for over 6 months before he just quit responding to my emails or calls...and I wasn't the only person he was doing this to. He went accepting orders for a year before he fell off the earth (and during this time his website was still up and he was taking other railroaders money). A thief, no matter what his hobby or intentions are, is still a thief. Stop lamenting him. He stole my money as well as dozens of others. This is not promoting or helping the hobby. If he just couldn't produce the decals any longer, then return the money (yes, I asked and no he didn't). The $60 he got from me isn't going to kill me. What I REALLY needed were the decals that only he produced to finish several projects, but I'm sure that others have a limited budget they can spend on hobbies and he took their money as well. If you want to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for the people he stole money from and didn't send them anything.


Jeff Maurer
Penryn CA


Speaking of PFE and Red Caboose. . .

Bill Welch
 

. . .has anyone noticed that Speedwitch has announced a new "Focus on Freight Cars" with Reefers as the subject matter. Ted said there are several examples for modeling the Red Caboose kits. The subject matter is primarily PFE (66%) and secondarily NWX (33%). The photos have never been published anywhere and there are many detail photos. Just a reminder that the subject matter is dependent on the collection he has accessed and is printing.


http://speedwitchmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/fofc3_cover-front.jpg


Bill Welch


Re: plastic solvent cements - again

Craig Zeni
 

On Jun 1, 2016, at 3:54 AM, STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:

1a. Re: plastic solvent cements - again
Posted by: "John Golden" golden1014@yahoo.com golden1014
Date: Tue May 31, 2016 2:29 am ((PDT))

Hi Ed,

I think I've used them all over the last 40 years. I prefer Tamiya the best and use it exclusively. Try Tamiya 87038 Extra Thin Cement Glue with the green top.

I accidentally left the lid off my bottle last week and the next day most/all of the solvent was still there. I recall leaving the lid cracked on my Testors and/or Tenax and after a day or two it was gone.

Hope this helps.
The Ambroid ProWeld was good stuff but went unavailable. It's now been duplicated by Minuteman Models...saw it at the RPM in Enfield CT last weekend along with a full and glorious selection of Scalecoat II paint on his table. It warmed my heart to see it all available as it's still my preferred paint.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC


Re: Truck mounting

Andy Miller
 

Don,



While I don’t have any of the specific cars you mention, I have many trucks with the wider hole designed to fit over a boss on the body bolster. In fact, I believe that long ago this was the NMRA RP. Today the NMRA calls for a standard #2 hole in the truck bolster. A standard #2 screw, wood or 2-56, leaves room for such a truck to wiggle around when there is no boss on the body bolster. My solution is to use a 2-56 pan head screw available from Micro Fasteners. This head is slightly larger in diameter (and shorter in height) and thus fills the truck bolster and eliminates the “wiggle” room.



Regards,



Andy Miller



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2016 9:10 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Truck mounting





Hello folks,



In enlarging my fleet of Rutland #8000 and #9000 series boxcars six more of Dennis Storzeks

kits for these double sheathed NYC cars have been assembled. As many of you know, these are

resin kits in which the body bolsters are soft metal castings. The castings were designed to accept

truck having a large enough hole in their bolster to slip over the ring of the body bolster. The

prototype used Bettendorf T-section trucks and I prefer to use the Kadee trucks of that style on

the models. However, the bolster of the Kadee trucks will have to be drilled out to slip over the

ring of the body bolster unless it is filed off. In looking at models of these cars assembled some

years ago I found that on some I had filled the body bolster smooth at this point but on some

had drilled out the truck bolster to slip over the ring. I've not noticed any difference in the

operation of the two different methods used to mount the trucks but wonder how others have

mounted trucks on such body bolsters and what their experience might have been. Any

thoughts based on actual experience, not "theory" would be appreciated.



Cordially, Don Valentine





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: "X" Markings On Boxcars?

Douglas Harding
 

There is a pair of photos of a CNW X LCL boxcar being loaded and unloaded, in the LOC FSA photo collection.

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/fsa/item/owi2001014851/PP/resource/

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/fsa/item/owi2001014852/PP/resource/

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: NYCSHS Central Headlight 2nd Qtr 2016 - NYC Automobile Cars 1916-1953

Fran Giacoma
 

I would like to model the 7000 series as pictured on Ben's link below.
Would this C&BT kit work?
 

 

Which end doors from Westerfield (part # 1112 or 2812) would be the closest to the NYC ones?
Thanks.
Fran Giacoma


Re: Reefer trains

Bruce Smith
 

Steve,

On the PRR there were “TRS” trains that were specifically designate to expedite empty tank cars, reefers and stock cars west.  These were reduced in number in the late 1930s and even more so post WWII.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

https://www5.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Jun 5, 2016, at 10:48 PM, STMFC@... wrote:


Steve Sandifer writes:


"We all have seen the photos of complete or nearly complete ice reefer
trains going from the west coast toward the east. My question concerns how
they returned empty. In high demand seasons, did the railroad give priority
to taking compete trains of EMPTY cars back to the west, or were the empties
interspersed with other cars in manifest freights?"

Without conducting a thorough study, I can say that my UP Frt Conductor's
book indicates that frt train consists traveling west between Laramie and
Rawlins, WY, included MT PFE reefer trains in 1949. OTOH, only two in the 17
or so west bound MT PFE trains were primarily PFE reefers.

UP did have trains dedicated  strongly to specific functions. Hence, there
were lumber trains, tank car trains [ loaded eastbound and MT west bound
headed to Sinclair, WY ]. Similarly, there were stock trains headed west.
Add to that trains of coal...usually for company use. Many WBs were
merchandise trains that could contain just about anything. Of course the
consists of loaded reefer trains would depend upon the time of year. My frt
conductor book contains data from April 1949 and the PFE trains are carrying
a large number of spuds.

Having said the above, UP seems to have "filled" out trains of a specific
item like cattle, oil, lumber, PFE  loads or MT's with other stuff. It's
never simple.

Mike Brock




------------------------------------
Posted by: "Mike Brock" <brockm@...>
------------------------------------


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Take a look at the Erie Boxcar!

gary laakso
 

Its in this photo in the middle and it appears to be the rebuilt Erie boxcar that Speedwitch has produced in resin due to its panels showing by weathering.  Mine needs LOTS of weathering to match it!  Thanks for posting it with your “X” pictures, Bob.
 
I recall that the “X” indicated restricted shuttle service on the CNW.

 
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
 
 


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