Date   

Re: UP actually dumped used oil on the ballast

Mikebrock
 

Ted Schnepf writes:


"the word "dumped" is an exaggeration. The oil
was sprayed on for dust control, and was a common
practice nationwide among US railroads, not just the UP."

In response to my:

I have noticed that, probably due to wind [
famous in Wyoming ] reweigh dates seem to get
covered up by dirt.parrticularly on PFE
reefers. UP actually dumped used oil on the
ballast to keep the dust from annoying passengers riding UP trains.


The term "dumped" was probably not a good choice although it does imply that
used oil was placed on the ballast. If sprayed, I'm not certain it would be
kept off of the rails. Oily rails would not likely enhance traction on the
1.55% grades of Sherman Hill.



My comment has a history. While building my model of some scenes of Sherman
Hill in 1953 I acquired a video tape titled "Steam Over Sherman" which
included many color shots of Sherman Hill and its trains in the early '50's.
I was aware from many color photos and actual samples that ballast taken
from pits in and around the vacation sites of Buford and Granite, WY, was a
reddish brown. I was surprised, therefore, to see a very black ballast on
the video tape. I inquired to a well known friend, narrow gauge and UP
author, the late Ross Grenard who lived in Colorado and spent a great deal
of time along UP tracks.including its ballast. He told me that UP, faced
with complaints from its traveling guests regarding dust, etc., "placed"
used oil on the ballast to reduce the dust and presumably the complaints. At
the time I was not one of the guests.and actually was not even aware of
Sherman Hill.being more interested in various females in high school in Oak
Ridge, Tennessee.



I do place significant faith in Ross's observations so I'll stay with my
comment's validity.



Mike Brock





Mike Brock.what, me wworry?



Are you serious Mike???? Well, I suppose
as used oil was used on town roads once upon a time

as well for the same purpose but what time frame
are you talking about. Just imagine, a giant UP

Super Fund site stretching all across Wyoming.


Cordially, Don Valentine
Ted Schnepf
railsunl@sbcglobal.net


Re: UP actually dumped used oil on the ballast

riverman_vt@...
 

   In the days prior to WW I I can believe quite a bit of oil was sprayed for dust control, 
weed control and even to oil rails against the brine dripping from reefers but Mike did
not provide a time frame and I cannot imagine the practice of spraying oil for much
of anything being used after say 1970. Several New England roads BURNED oil in
weed burners to control weeds. Prior to the rolling smudge pot (re: diesel) era most 
coal burning roads had a better method of weed control. It was known as cinder
ballast and worked better than anything else I have seen as the acid formed with
every rain took care of any weeds in short order. Owen Rodgers, my professor of
horticulture at UNH, had a great definition of weeds. It was anything that was
growing where you didn't want it. Unfortunately his old age dementia has taken
a sharp and enjoyable mind from us.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: UP actually dumped used oil on the ballast

John C. La Rue, Jr. <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

Currently  going through pages of the old Railway Age, Railroad Gazette, and Railway Age Gazette, and there are several accounts ca. 1904 - 1910 of the practice of spraying oil on the roadbed, mainly to reduce dust. The Burlington, for example, sprayed crude oil on its right of way near Chicago. Aside from the fire hazard, the smell must have been considerable when first applied.
 
John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Schnepf railsunl@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Sat, Jul 30, 2016 3:48 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] UP actually dumped used oil on the ballast

 
Hello,

the word "dumped" is an exaggeration. The oil
was sprayed on for dust control, and was a common
practice nationwide among US railroads, not just the UP.

Ted

At 06:10 AM 7/30/2016, you wrote:

> I have noticed that, probably due to wind [
> famous in Wyoming ] reweigh dates seem to get
> covered up by dirt…parrticularly on PFE
> reefers. UP actually dumped used oil on the
> ballast to keep the dust from annoying passengers riding UP trains.
>
>
>
>Mike Brock…what, me wworry?
>
>
>
> Are you serious Mike???? Well, I suppose
> as used oil was used on town roads once upon a time
>
>as well for the same purpose but what time frame
>are you talking about. Just imagine, a giant UP
>
>Super Fund site stretching all across Wyoming.
>
>
>Cordially, Don Valentine

Ted Schnepf
railsunl@...

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Re: UP actually dumped used oil on the ballast

Bruce Smith
 

​Don,


Many railroads, including the PRR, sprayed oil on their rails to help prevent the saltwater dripping out of passing refrigerator cars from corroding the rails too badly.


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... on behalf of riverman_vt@... [STMFC]
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 6:10 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] UP actually dumped used oil on the ballast
 





---In STMFC@..., wrote :

 


 I have noticed that, probably due to  wind [ famous in Wyoming ] reweigh dates seem to get covered up by dirt…particularly on PFE reefers. UP actually dumped used oil on the ballast to keep the dust from annoying passengers riding UP trains.

 

Mike Brock…what, me worry? 



     Are you serious Mike????  Well, I suppose as used oil was used on town roads once upon a time

as well for the same purpose but what time frame are you talking about. Just imagine, a giant UP

Super Fund site stretching all across Wyoming.


Cordially, Don Valentine

 

 

 

 







Re: UP actually dumped used oil on the ballast

Ted Schnepf
 

Hello,

the word "dumped" is an exaggeration. The oil
was sprayed on for dust control, and was a common
practice nationwide among US railroads, not just the UP.

Ted

At 06:10 AM 7/30/2016, you wrote:



I have noticed that, probably due to wind [
famous in Wyoming ] reweigh dates seem to get
covered up by dirt…parrticularly on PFE
reefers. UP actually dumped used oil on the
ballast to keep the dust from annoying passengers riding UP trains.



Mike Brock…what, me wworry?



Are you serious Mike???? Well, I suppose
as used oil was used on town roads once upon a time

as well for the same purpose but what time frame
are you talking about. Just imagine, a giant UP

Super Fund site stretching all across Wyoming.


Cordially, Don Valentine
Ted Schnepf
railsunl@sbcglobal.net


Re: Westerfield stock car sanding

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Steve,
 
Some very nice looking models!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 7:24 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Westerfield stock car sanding

Now I am going to be a dangerous radical, but I have built 15 resin stock cars from Sunshine and Westerfield. So be prepared to laugh and swear, but it works for me.

 

I chuck my 1/4 sheet oscillating sander in my vice with 100 grit paper. I put on some of those rubber coated work gloves to give me extra grip, and I turn the sander on. I slowly put the side on the sander and keep it moving. The resin is much softer than anything else, so it is difficult to get it totally flat, but keeping it moving and changing hand pressure works. I quickly get the sides cleaned out and ready to use. Be sure to use those rubber gloves or the sander may throw the side to some far corner of the room, probably under a file cabinet or desk.

 

I don't do this method on the doors. They are very thin and require special care. 

 

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SK4.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SKZ.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SK-NOrig.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SK-N1934.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SK-POrig.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SK-P1934.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SK-2.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SK-3.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SK-5.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/WestMP.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/WestNYC.jpg

 

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 2:56 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Westerfield stock car sanding

 

 

Andy, Jack, Steve, and others,

 

I’d like complete details of how to sand the back of the Westerfield stock cars.  I’ve ended up damaging the bracing when sanding the back thin.

 

Do you glue the grit down to the glass?  What do you do to have equal pressure on the casting?  Do you just use your fingers (which did not seem to work for me)?  Grade of sandpaper?

 

Any and all help greatly appreciated.  I do not want to ruin another set of sides.

 

Thanks,

Gary Ray


Re: UP actually dumped used oil on the ballast

Don Burn
 

The other possibility is weed control.   I worked in college for the track department of the Milwaukee Road and remember seeing records of using junk oil for that purpose.

 

Don Burn

 

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 7:10 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] UP actually dumped used oil on the ballast

 






---In STMFC@..., <brockm@...> wrote :

 

 

 I have noticed that, probably due to  wind [ famous in Wyoming ] reweigh dates seem to get covered up by dirt…particularly on PFE reefers. UP actually dumped used oil on the ballast to keep the dust from annoying passengers riding UP trains.

 

Mike Brock…what, me worry? 

 

 

     Are you serious Mike????  Well, I suppose as used oil was used on town roads once upon a time

as well for the same purpose but what time frame are you talking about. Just imagine, a giant UP

Super Fund site stretching all across Wyoming.



Cordially, Don Valentine

 

 

 

 







Re: Westerfield stock car sanding

Dave Nelson
 

You do not need to sand it until the boards are flash free. Getting it down to very thin is good enough because you can use an exacto blade to poke thru the ultra thin flash and cut it away.  I always use an ordinary emory board on resin kit flash and used gently it works very well to finish things up after I’ve used a knife.

 

One more tip… I found doing a mass build of stock cars at once to go a whole lot faster than going one by one. 

 

Good luck!

 

Dave Nelson


Re: Westerfield stock car sanding

Steve SANDIFER
 

Now I am going to be a dangerous radical, but I have built 15 resin stock cars from Sunshine and Westerfield. So be prepared to laugh and swear, but it works for me.

 

I chuck my 1/4 sheet oscillating sander in my vice with 100 grit paper. I put on some of those rubber coated work gloves to give me extra grip, and I turn the sander on. I slowly put the side on the sander and keep it moving. The resin is much softer than anything else, so it is difficult to get it totally flat, but keeping it moving and changing hand pressure works. I quickly get the sides cleaned out and ready to use. Be sure to use those rubber gloves or the sander may throw the side to some far corner of the room, probably under a file cabinet or desk.

 

I don't do this method on the doors. They are very thin and require special care. 

 

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SK4.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SKZ.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SK-NOrig.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SK-N1934.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SK-POrig.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SK-P1934.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SK-2.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SK-3.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/SK-5.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/WestMP.jpg

http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Clinics/Stk/Mod/640Web/WestNYC.jpg

 

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 2:56 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Westerfield stock car sanding

 

 

Andy, Jack, Steve, and others,

 

I’d like complete details of how to sand the back of the Westerfield stock cars.  I’ve ended up damaging the bracing when sanding the back thin.

 

Do you glue the grit down to the glass?  What do you do to have equal pressure on the casting?  Do you just use your fingers (which did not seem to work for me)?  Grade of sandpaper?

 

Any and all help greatly appreciated.  I do not want to ruin another set of sides.

 

Thanks,

Gary Ray


Re: Westerfield stock car sanding

Charles Peck
 

I have doubts that I would ever need to sand plastic with enough pressure to flex one quarter inch plate glass.
At least not enough to make a difference on a model.
Odd size chunks can often be had at very low cost.  More cost is added when one decides the piece just has
to be some certain size.  And how much bigger does it need to be than the size of your sandpaper?
Chuck Peck

On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 9:15 AM, David bott dbott@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Price is one reason. I recently bought a replacement piece of glass and a countertop for our fire restoration. I tried to get the sink cutout from countertop, but it wasn't whole and the pieces were irregular in shape. Adding a piece of correct size to the order was pricey. Might have gone to the factory to get leftovers but glass was cheap and abundant. I got a piece of laminate safety glass, dead flat, cut exactly to my portable model bench dimensions (13"x18") with polished beveled edge for $23.

The glass shop makes custom geometry furniture tops and custom glass shower doors as well as the usual window glass.

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott's iPad

On Jul 29, 2016, at 9:03 PM, riverman_vt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

   Thank you Tom. I was just about to ask why folks had not tried a piece of polished

granite rather than glass. Unless one has a good source for really thick glass and a
way to have the edges polished to avoid any sharpness it would seem that a usable 
piece of granite should be fairly easy to find at most any reputable building supply
business these days give the demand for granite counter tops.

Cordially, Don Valentine



Re: Westerfield stock car sanding

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Price is one reason. I recently bought a replacement piece of glass and a countertop for our fire restoration. I tried to get the sink cutout from countertop, but it wasn't whole and the pieces were irregular in shape. Adding a piece of correct size to the order was pricey. Might have gone to the factory to get leftovers but glass was cheap and abundant. I got a piece of laminate safety glass, dead flat, cut exactly to my portable model bench dimensions (13"x18") with polished beveled edge for $23.

The glass shop makes custom geometry furniture tops and custom glass shower doors as well as the usual window glass.

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott's iPad

On Jul 29, 2016, at 9:03 PM, riverman_vt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

   Thank you Tom. I was just about to ask why folks had not tried a piece of polished

granite rather than glass. Unless one has a good source for really thick glass and a
way to have the edges polished to avoid any sharpness it would seem that a usable 
piece of granite should be fairly easy to find at most any reputable building supply
business these days give the demand for granite counter tops.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Westerfield stock car sanding

william darnaby
 

I have also experienced this frustration as it is impossible to apply uniform pressure with one's fingers.  In a tile store where grout supplies are also sold I found a very stiff sponge measuring about 2 x 4 x 6 made for working grout in between the tiles.  When turned on edge it has enough "give" to nestle between the braces and other side details so it applies much more uniform pressure to the side when pushed down with your hand.  I am able to quickly sand down the backs of the sides and ends using 150 grit paper on a flat surface.  Yes, you will remove bits of the sponge with the paper but that is a minor annoyance compared to sanding through a slat.

Bill Darnaby



From: "Lester Breuer frograbbit602@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 10:45 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Westerfield stock car sanding

I sand as Bill and Jack suggested on plate glass holding the casting with my fingers.  I want to add that I count the strokes sanding in one direction ( say ten ).  I stop and rotate the casting 180 degrees.  Now I count the sanding strokes until I have the  same number of strokes ( ten ) as I had in the other direction.  I continue to repeat this method, matching sanding strokes in each direction, until the flash between slats disappears.  I believe counting the strokes in each direction helps to account for the difference in pressure my fingers and thumb may have on the casting when holding it.  I find keeping the sanding strokes in each direction the same helps me to keep all areas of the casting back as even as possible.
Lester Breuer






------------------------------------
Posted by: Lester Breuer <frograbbit602@...>
------------------------------------


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RE Only if accurate stations and dates are available . Sunshine decals were once available for just that purpose:. If chalk marks are being made, ,w h y not reweigh info? Armand Premo Re: "NEW " Dates

Armand Premo
 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Craig Zeni clzeni@... [STMFC]
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 7:27 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: "NEW " Dates

 

 

On Jul 30, 2016, at 3:44 AM, STMFC@... wrote:

 

> ________________________________________________________________________

> 2a. Re: "NEW " Dates

>    Posted by: "Armand Premo" arm.p.prem@...

>    Date: Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:28 pm ((PDT))

>

> Then why don’t they just leave it blank? Armand Premo

 

Then you're going to apply dates anyway, right?

 

 

Craig Zeni

"Bother..." said Pooh as he chambered another round.

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: "NEW " Dates

Craig Zeni
 

On Jul 30, 2016, at 3:44 AM, STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:

________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: "NEW " Dates
Posted by: "Armand Premo" arm.p.prem@gmail.com
Date: Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:28 pm ((PDT))

Then why don’t they just leave it blank? Armand Premo
Then you're going to apply dates anyway, right?


Craig Zeni
"Bother..." said Pooh as he chambered another round.


UP actually dumped used oil on the ballast

riverman_vt@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <brockm@...> wrote :

 


 I have noticed that, probably due to  wind [ famous in Wyoming ] reweigh dates seem to get covered up by dirt…particularly on PFE reefers. UP actually dumped used oil on the ballast to keep the dust from annoying passengers riding UP trains.

 

Mike Brock…what, me worry? 



     Are you serious Mike????  Well, I suppose as used oil was used on town roads once upon a time

as well for the same purpose but what time frame are you talking about. Just imagine, a giant UP

Super Fund site stretching all across Wyoming.


Cordially, Don Valentine

 

 

 

 





Re: COUPLER BOX FASTENERS

Mark Vinski
 

Hello Bill,


    I use 0-80 flat head screws to mount Kadee  scale size coupler boxes. With a slight countersink the screws are flush with the surface of the box.


   1-72 screws work in the same manner with the #5 boxes. Even though the hole is sized for a 2-56 screw the taper of the flat head keeps the box centered.


Mark Vinski


Re: RE Only if you are fortunate enough to have , or to fine correct lettering .Armand Premo "NEW " Dates

Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Not a problem. Reweigh dates would not necessarily be done in the original lettering style or stencil. Any odd lettering of the appropriate size could be a possibility for use. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Jul 29, 2016, at 6:17 PM, Armand Premo arm.p.prem@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:



Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Brian carlson prrk41361@... [STMFC]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Re: RE Only if you are fortunate enough to have , or to fine correct lettering .Armand Premo "NEW " Dates

Mikebrock
 

 

Armand Premo says:


“Subject: RE Only if you are fortunate enough to have , or to fine correct lettering .Armand Premo [STMFC] "NEW " Dates”

 

“Me thinks the lady complains too much’”. Weathering fixes a lot of reweigh issues. For example, I have noticed that, probably due to  wind [ famous in Wyoming ] reweigh dates seem to get covered up by dirt…particularly on PFE reefers. UP actually dumped used oil on the ballast to keep the dust from annoying passengers riding UP trains.

 

Mike Brock…what, me worry?

 

 

 

 





Re: Westerfield stock car sanding

frograbbit602
 

I sand as Bill and Jack suggested on plate glass holding the casting with my fingers. I want to add that I count the strokes sanding in one direction ( say ten ). I stop and rotate the casting 180 degrees. Now I count the sanding strokes until I have the same number of strokes ( ten ) as I had in the other direction. I continue to repeat this method, matching sanding strokes in each direction, until the flash between slats disappears. I believe counting the strokes in each direction helps to account for the difference in pressure my fingers and thumb may have on the casting when holding it. I find keeping the sanding strokes in each direction the same helps me to keep all areas of the casting back as even as possible.
Lester Breuer


RE Only if you are fortunate enough to have , or to fine correct lettering .Armand Premo "NEW " Dates

Armand Premo
 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Brian carlson prrk41361@yahoo.com [STMFC]

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