Date   

Re: Prototype Collecting - John Houlihan's PFE Reefer

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

 
Car Number:   PFE 7322
Class:              R-30-5
Built:                11-09
Rebuilt:            1-22

Immediately adjacent to the class designation stenciling of R-30-5 is “-11 ½”.  This additional stenciling is clearly evident in the photo and indicates a sub-class of the R-30-5 cars.

      Actually, the added "sub-class" stencil indicates the car was REBUILT to R-30-11-1/2 standards. As is evident in the PFE book, this means a new superstructure. The Westerfield R-30-5 kit would not strictly be appropriate, as it portrayed the car as originally built, not as rebuilt, though the general appearance is quite similar. One could leave off the Bohn ventilators in that kit, for example.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Prototype Collecting - John Houlihan's PFE Reefer

thecitrusbelt@...
 

John Houlihan lives in Fresno, CA, and is well known around the NMRA’s Pacific Coast Region as the “Irish Tracklayer”.  John models the Western Pacific, Santa Fe and Southern Pacific plus some traction, set in the Central Valley of California. He has a 36 foot x 48 foot O scale layout with detection, signaling and transponding. His era is 1947 to 1957.

 

John also is a manufacturer and has been developing a number of new parts using 3D CAD and RP printing. He has produced brass detailing parts for steam, diesel, rolling stock, signals, catenary hangers, pole steps for signals and crossing signals.

 

What is less well known about John is what he keeps in his basement.

 

John has managed to collect, literally board by board, most of a wood sheathed Pacific Fruit Express reefer car side.  John found the car abandoned in a field and began removing a few boards at a time after marking their original sequence on the car side.  The eight to ten boards he removed with each salvage operation was all that he could fit in his vehicle. 

 

Over a period of time he retrieved a sizable portion of one exterior wall and the interior ceiling.  He had to remove decades of dirt, mud and insect infestations from the wood.  These boards the now adorn one wall and the ceiling of the den adjacent to his basement layout.  The exterior boards exhibit most of one car side as it appeared when the car was removed from service.

 

From the stenciling on the boards the car’s identity is -

 

Car Number:   PFE 7322

Class:              R-30-5

Built:                11-09

Rebuilt:            1-22

 

Immediately adjacent to the class designation stenciling of R-30-5 is “-11 ½”.  This additional stenciling is clearly evident in the photo and indicates a sub-class of the R-30-5 cars.

 

Additional information on these cars can be found in the book, Pacific Fruit Express. An image appears on Page 79.

 

Westerfield featured HO scale models of the R-30-5 in both pre- and post-1911 Safety Appliance Act versions but these currently are out of production.  These were kits 4903 and 4953, respectively.

 

Photos of the car side in John's basement are on this link:

 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/citrusmodeling/conversations/messages/5714

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: DL&W yard and distant freight cars - 1911

Schleigh Mike
 

You stole my comment, Eric----

B&S 10001-10500  Pressed Steel Car Co.  1905-06 (B&O 139028-249)
B&S 10501-11250  Unknown builder  (Same B&O series)
B&S 12101-12600  PSCCo.  1907  (B&O 11601-12595)

All 41-9 IL cars with drop bottoms.  Did not last long past the B&S acquisition of 1932.

PS&N 9143 was from series 9100-9199, AC&F 1899, originally 100-199.  36-8 IL, 30 ton cars, note with Fox trucks.

Ah the old stuff----great times!

Mike Schleigh, Grove City, Penna.


On Monday, August 8, 2016 2:08 PM, "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Agreed.
 
This collection is nearly pure gold and an amazing historical documentation of massive changes in Lackawanna Country.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
 
 
 

From: STMFC@... [mailto: STMFC@... ]
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 12:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] DL&W yard and distant freight cars - 1911
 


Eric

What a fantastic picture! It captures the industrialization of America perfectly. The bucolic
scenery, and then a massive, brand new roundhouse and railroad yard. And you have to love
that foot path from the roundhouse to the boarding house!!

And photographed from a CULM BANK ? A hundred foot tall pile of waste rock ?? What a
lovely addition to the scenery! :-)

Tim O'Connor





Schuyler,
 
The next couple of images are great! A Buffalo & Susquehanna steel gondola is featured. I didnt know the B&S had any steel gons.
http://lists.railfan.net/erielack-photo/erielack-08-07-16/B0799.jpg
 
And note a Shawmut box car is parked on the stores track to the right of the roundhouse.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso , TX




Re: What Are These Folks Doing?

Edward
 

Covis, NM near the Texas panhandle western border, is reasonably close to the grain country of northern Texas,  western Oklahoma and western Kansas, though which Santa Fe ran.
While not quite as productive for grain these days, back in the 1940s it was the main crop in those areas.

Ed Bommer


Re: Fw: NYC boxcar

Benjamin Hom
 

Clark Propst forwarded from Jason Klocke:
"I have a Red Caboose 40ft DD Automobile boxcar. It's a NYC car, jade green with a cigar band herald.  The # is 59075.
 
I am trying to bill it but I cannot find the series in the 1965 ORER.  
 
Do you know anyone who might know about these cars? Possibly they were renumbered from another series? I can't believe Red Caboose would make such an error.....the car has a repaint date of 1963 on it, yet the series does not show in the ORER of 1965."

I've got a bridge to sell to Jason if he "can't believe Red Caboose would make such an error". ;)

The Red Caboose model doesn't match any NYC prototype.  It looks like they picked a number in a hypothetical 59000-series following NYC 58000-58999 (renumbered 1936), which were 10 ft IH steel automobile boxcars with end doors built by MDT in 1929 for the CCC&StL.  These differ significantly from the Red Caboose model, with different sides and ends, a 5/5/5 (inverse?) Murphy B end, end doors. Photo of NYC 220539, Lot 585-B car repainted in an experimental blue scheme in 1958 and rebuilt wit a solid A end here:


Ben Hom 


Re: What Are These Folks Doing?

np328
 

Of double door boxcars being used for grain, yes, we have covered this subject before.

 I had posted a photo of a MILW DD boxcar that the Railway Age article in which the photo was taken from stated that the car was equipped with a metal post consisting of a U shaped channel containing wood which allowed grain doors in a double door set up.

  For more info and documentation, see my post of 81059 dated April 14, 2009.

    Of the work being done, I would agree with clean out and coopering.  Of the monthly AAR reports I have been able to get a hold of and read, there is ALWAYs a monthly reminder to - please clean out your cars before releasing them again  - and how this affected the (always short) car supply.  And floor maintenance concerns were high enough that steel nailable floors became the norm in new car construction well before the end time of this list, so some of the more substantial boards in the photo make sense.

Ben, first - your comments and observations are pretty much right on and I always appreciate them.

     Of your mention about Clovis, what I can state is that - on the Northern Pacific, there was a clean out yard at Lake Park, MN where cleaning and coopering were done for boxcars.  It was a small town in the middle of nowhere and I think that labor was the determinant factor in placing it here. Non-union labor could be used.  

This also fit the NPs traffic flow of empties west.      

      Staples, MN,  further east was where the Twin Cities and Twin ports lines met, and cars were graded here as to suitability. This was east of Lake Park, and if cars needed to be rejected after getting through the east interchanges, it was done here. And if they needed cleaning or coopering, Lake Park was a few miles west and on the route of a local, so that allowed the better grade cars to be expedited right away, and run past Lake Park.

     This site at Lake Park was pre-grain staging areas. Cars could be diverted to places in ND or MT and the clean out and coopering would not interfere with pre-grain rush car staging. As branchlines branch off the NP further west, the cars would still pass by Lake Park after returning from eastern railroads, or if grain, from the Twin Ports and Twin Cities prior to getting to the wheat fields west.

I would think that other railroads had plans like this in place also.

     I am not familiar with how the loads/empties flow was on the ATSF and perhaps this made sense locating it there. However, I would think again, labor costs were a big factor.  

One last thing, by any means, the photo represents an "industry" to me. Any XM car from any road.
      
   For years/decades of wondering about photos showing reefers stuffing a siding in a small town north of the Twin Cities on the area I am modeling, and no fruit or vegetable concerns to be found. And after conferring with other NP experts on this "phenomenon", and them adding nothing factual, I found a letter stating that a small part (20' x 20') of a larger building was in use by a firm coopering these reefers.

    This "coopering" firm will be an industry I model. And even though this industry could hold no more than the load of one boxcar, it can prototypically serve many boxcars or in my case, reefers.    

                                                                                                       Jim Dick - St. Paul

BTW - of these AAR reports - if someone has the server space to accommodate these reports, please contact me.  I have these, not sure the STMFC site has the room unless they set up a sister site like the Yahoo Railway-Signaling site has.  

I presented on some of the materials found at Cocoa Beach earlier this year and will tweak the presentation for the Chicagoland/Lilse/Naperville RPM.  I need to contact Mike Skibbe about that.

However there is SO much more in the documents that cover almost two years with month by month reports.
Coal, ore, crop reports, port loading and unloading, open top car reports, and more.
And the Minnesota Historical Society (where these were found) stated these are open - non-copyrighted docs, so - they should be out there - open.      
    

  



























































































































































































Re: DL&W yard and distant freight cars - 1911

Eric Hansmann
 

Agreed.

 

This collection is nearly pure gold and an amazing historical documentation of massive changes in Lackawanna Country.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 12:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] DL&W yard and distant freight cars - 1911

 



Eric

What a fantastic picture! It captures the industrialization of America perfectly. The bucolic
scenery, and then a massive, brand new roundhouse and railroad yard. And you have to love
that foot path from the roundhouse to the boarding house!!

And photographed from a CULM BANK ? A hundred foot tall pile of waste rock ?? What a
lovely addition to the scenery! :-)

Tim O'Connor





Schuyler,
 
The next couple of images are great! A Buffalo & Susquehanna steel gondola is featured. I didnt know the B&S had any steel gons.
http://lists.railfan.net/erielack-photo/erielack-08-07-16/B0799.jpg
 
And note a Shawmut box car is parked on the stores track to the right of the roundhouse.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX



Re: DL&W yard and distant freight cars - 1911

Tim O'Connor
 

Eric

What a fantastic picture! It captures the industrialization of America perfectly. The bucolic
scenery, and then a massive, brand new roundhouse and railroad yard. And you have to love
that foot path from the roundhouse to the boarding house!!

And photographed from a CULM BANK ? A hundred foot tall pile of waste rock ?? What a
lovely addition to the scenery! :-)

Tim O'Connor




Schuyler,
 
The next couple of images are great! A Buffalo & Susquehanna steel gondola is featured. I didn�t know the B&S had any steel gons.
http://lists.railfan.net/erielack-photo/erielack-08-07-16/B0799.jpg
 
And note a Shawmut box car is parked on the stores track to the right of the roundhouse.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX


Re: DL&W yard and distant freight cars - 1911

Eric Hansmann
 

Schuyler,

 

The next couple of images are great! A Buffalo & Susquehanna steel gondola is featured. I didn’t know the B&S had any steel gons.

http://lists.railfan.net/erielack-photo/erielack-08-07-16/B0799.jpg

 

And note a Shawmut box car is parked on the stores track to the right of the roundhouse.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2016 11:34 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] DL&W yard and distant freight cars - 1911

 




http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-08-07-16/B0798.jpg et seq.

 

This image plus the few after this one show a LARGE number of steam era freight cars in 1911, way before the transition era, but still very interesting.  Since these are glass plate negatives, the resolution is quite sharp even when zoomed way in.

 

Check out the loads in both the open topped cars and the hoppers.  Not all coal is the same, even in two cars coupled together.  All the coal you see, though, is most likely Anthracite, just in different sizes.

 

Enjoy!

 

Schuyler

 



Re: What Are These Folks Doing?

Douglas Harding
 

I was wondering the same thing Guy. A quick check shows Morley Mills built a modern feed mill  in Clovis NM in 1955. As a feed mill, it use local and imported grains to blend and make feed, mostly for cattle.

 

Dennis is correct that beans, as in pinto beans, are a common crop in SW Colorado and New Mexico. Also wheat, sorghum, milo and other grains.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: What Are These Folks Doing?

Benjamin Hom
 

Rich Townshend wrote:
"I support the grain rush hypothesis, or something like it."

The location of the work (Clovis NM) is throwing me off.  Granted, it could be because Clovis is lighter loaded than Topeka, but you'd think the work would be done closer to the area of need.


Ben Hom


Exactrail and TrianLife (was Re: NKP 22000-22349 series boxcars)

pennsylvania1954
 

Although I have the RMJ issues Tim cited on the shelf, I thought I would try TrainLife. I found the two RMJ issues and the photos, but more importantly I found that the good guys from Exactrail have been taken over the site and made it into a store as well. Fabulous. Check it out here:

The best online model train resource & Model Train Shop.
Moderator: Second time I have made this post. First was late Saturday. Obviously found its way into Yahoo's Black Hole.

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: What Are These Folks Doing?

Guy Wilber
 


"Beans?"

Dennis Storzek

New Mexican Jumping Beans!  Could very well be, Dennis.  Until I saw the silos I was going to suggest cotton which was a New Mexico and Arizona product during the period of the photo.  I do know that the pinto beans from the region are said to be above average due to the higher elevations at which they are grown.



Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada
.


Re: What Are These Folks Doing?

destorzek@...
 




---In STMFC@..., <guycwilber@...> wrote

I believe, as Dennis stated, that these cars are being "coopered" and prepared for grain.  The large array of silos in the background is a pretty good indication, but I did not know that New Mexico was a major grain producing area.
=================

Beans?

Dennis Storzek
.


Re: What Are These Folks Doing?

Guy Wilber
 




"Would a double sliding door car be usable for grain at all?"

Staffan Ehnbom


Dr. Ehnbom:

I have never seen photo evidence of a double door car in grain service, but the ARA's original diagrams covering the preparation of cars for grain loading included a diagram for double door cars. 

I believe, as Dennis stated, that these cars are being "coopered" and prepared for grain.  The large array of silos in the background is a pretty good indication, but I did not know that New Mexico was a major grain producing area.   

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada

 

.


Re: For that special breed of modeler who enjoys tank car underframes

Douglas Harding
 

Yes, CMO is the Omaha road, http://www.cnwhs.org/ch_spmo.htm

Controlled by the CNW since 1882, leased by the CNW in 1957, ie merged, name gone 1972.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: What Are These Folks Doing?

Tim O'Connor
 


To me it looks like a whole cut of cars has been pulled into a work track, and cars that need attention,
of whatever kind, are getting it. Railroad yards often had a "clean out" track where trash and filth from
the cars was shoved out onto the ground. Doing a batch of cars at the same time is the most efficient
way to do it. This looks like a similar "spot repair" activity.

Tim O'Connor




The fourth car from the right is a double door Great Northern boxcar and both doors are open.  For grain doors, wouldn’t one door be closed? the fifth car with is door close, appears to have a steam cleaner or a large shop vac next to it.  The stack of thick boards closest to the camera suggests floor board and end board replacements. 
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock

http://www.kansasmemory.org/item/218115/page/1


Fw: NYC boxcar

Clark Propst
 

Below is an inquiry I received. I’m hoping these cars, or something like them  ;  )) were built during the era of this list. Can anyone help Jason Klocke out on this?
 
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clark,
 
 
I have a Red Caboose 40ft DD Automobile boxcar.   It's a NYC car, jade green with a cigar band herald.  The # is 59075.
 
I am trying to bill it but I cannot find the series in the 1965 ORER.  
 
Do you know anyone who might know about these cars?   Possibly they were renumbered from another series?    I can't believe Red Caboose would make such an error
.....the car has a repaint date of 1963 on it, yet the series does not show in the OR ER of 1965.
 
 
Maybe an NYC modeler can help?
 
 
Jason
 
 
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


Layout Development

Eric Hansmann
 

Clark Propst outlines his new layout adventure on the Resin Car Work blog. Clark reviews his processes in choosing a new prototype location and how to model it. Check it out!

http://blog.resincarworks.com/deciding-on-a-new-layout-adventure/



Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy


Re: What Are These Folks Doing?

Richard Townsend
 

I support the grain rush hypothesis, or something like it. A couple of years ago I ran into a Colorado & Southern book listing "cars made ready" for various high class cargos on each day at Denver. There were 10 to 20 or more cars, many from foreign roads, cleaned and patched for loading with food and other items, including (surprisingly to me) feldspar loading.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bruce F. Smith' smithbf@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Mon, Aug 8, 2016 6:07 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] What Are These Folks Doing?

 
Stephan

Yes, with one door temporarily “sealed”.  My impression of the grain rush was that almost any “tight”, “clean” car was very valuable.

The presence of the GN car also supports the grain rush hypothesis, and Gary’s comments could as well.  Why else would a foreign road car be getting interior repairs?  Usually the car would be sent home for that sort of thing, right?

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith            
Auburn, AL
"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."



On Aug 8, 2016, at 7:12 AM, STMFC@... wrote:



Would a double sliding door car be usable for grain at all?

Staffan Ehnbom

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 2:00 PM, 'gary laakso' vasa0vasa@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

The fourth car from the right is a double door Great Northern boxcar and both doors are open.  For grain doors, wouldn’t one door be closed? the fifth car with is door close, appears to have a steam cleaner or a large shop vac next to it.  The stack of thick boards closest to the camera suggests floor board and end board replacements.  
 
gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
 
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] What Are These Folks Doing?
 
 

​Bob,

You seem to have already made that "educated guess".  That's quite a string of a "dogs breakfast" of cars that all seem to be undergoing the same treatment as well.  The boards appear to be too short for interior sheathing as they would not be close to full height.
 
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

From: STMFC@... <STMFC@...> on behalf of thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2016 12:16 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] What Are These Folks Doing?
 



This is a link to a photo from the Kansas State Historical Society:

 

http://www.kansasmemory.org/item/218115/page/1

 

It shows workmen engaged in some activity along a string of boxcars and racks of lumber spaced out along the cars. The caption notes that this is conditioning yard at Clovis, New Mexico.

 

My initial thoughts are that the cars are being prepared for grain doors or that car interiors are being refurbished. The lack of used, broken boards on the ground probably weights against refurbishing.

 

Can anyone make an educated guess as to what actually is the activity?

 

Thanks.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA











50741 - 50760 of 194773