Date   

Re: Ejector pin marks

brianleppert@att.net
 

The Tahoe Model Works truck mold uses ejector pins.  There are photos of this mold in our Photos section.  The album is named "Tahoe Model Works" and was created in 2010.  August, I think.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

"Freight Car Trucks for the Prototype Modeler"


Re: Ejector pin marks

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <midcentury@...> wrote :

Jimi Booth, tool maker, told me he does not use ejector pins on his molds. Neither does Brian Leppert. Parts may fall off on their own by good design, or a person would need to manually extract each part.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
===========

Certainly doable. IIRC, some of Grandt's molds are that way.

But as with all aspects of mold design, this requires trade-offs in other areas. If you want the parts to "fall off", you need to increase the amount of draft on surfaces perpendicular to the parting line, adding angled surfaces to details that may look objectionable, and angles to edges that may affect the fit of parts.

In the case of Brian's trucks, the "lifters" that retract the cores that make the axle bearing points also serve to lift the parts out of the mold.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Youngstown Door Nomenclature

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Andy, good information

--
Fenton Wells
5 Newberry Lane
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-1144
srrfan1401@...


Ejector pin marks

Andy Carlson
 

Jimi Booth, tool maker, told me he does not use ejector pins on his molds. Neither does Brian Leppert. Parts may fall off on their own by good design, or a person would need to manually extract each part.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




From: "Richard Brennan rbrennan@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2016 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Circles in Plastic Castings

 
At 09:43 AM 8/7/2016, chris_hillman@... [STMFC] wrote:
>Just a question here. Nothing we can do about it except fill them in
>but, why are there small circular holes or impressions in various
>plastic castings? They can't be for material-flow in the casting process ???

Ejector pins...
without them... it would be extremely difficult to get the warm
injected part out of a complex mold.

Description at:
https://www.protolabs.com/resources/injection-molding-design-tips/united-states/2010-06/

--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------




Youngstown Door Nomenclature

Andy Carlson
 

Hi, I would like to jump in here with some thoughts.

Bill Welch, an historian as much as a modeler, has questions identifying doors from the Youngstown door co. produced during our era of interest. He is not alone.

As in most other components used on steam era freight cars, door manufacturers simply offered product for applications by width/height. Small changes were often running changes when an improvement made its way into production. Even so,there were three very distinct styles of Youngstown doors made in our favorite era.

Authors, modelers and tool makers need to be able communicate the ID of the various doors to clear confusion. Similar to how modelers issued "phases" for EMD's F unit line of locomotives (Something EMD never did) to communicate and make sense of the various deviations over time, Youngstown doors have had modeler's IDs applied. Unfortunatley, standards have not yet been agreed upon; so confusion is not avoided; such as Bill Welch's.

Simple code initials (such as Y2-A) work well for large tables (such as Ed Hawkins' great freight car summaries) where the reader can refer to the bottom of the table to a more verbose description. However, simply identifying a door in an article as a "Y2-A" isn't helpful to 99% of the readers outside of these tables. We need a nomenclature which is intuitive, brief, understandable and made a standard.

I propose following Dan Hall's method to id'ing Youngstown doors. Dan makes various Youngstown and superior doors for HO in his Southwest Scale Models' line.

Pre-war Youngstown doors were typically made of 3 (sometimes 4) pressed steel sheets riveted together to make the size sufficient to cover the door openings. The riveted joints were in the flat area of the sheet recessed towards the inside of the car. Each section has ribs stamped into it which forms rectangular panels which are very easily spotted and counted from even lesser quality photos.

A typical Youngstown door on a 1937 AAR box will have , counting from top-to-bottom a 5/6/5 pattern of panels. To accommodate differing heights, the door maker simply uses taller sheets for the top and bottom sheets so the adjustment of height is made in the joint area. For a pre-war Youngstown door, this feature is noticable and should be addressed. At a minimum, the riveted joint sections produce a panel which is nearly identical in dimensions as the 5/6/5 panels themselves. Being the shortest variant, I call these -S (for short). A taller door will have the joint panel somewhat taller than the standard panels, so I label these as -M (for medium). The tallest Youngstown door's joint panels are almost twice the height of the regular panels. If the door needs to be even taller for its application, the maker will simply add more panels (though in the pre-war time, doors would more likely have LESS panels for inside height cars lower than the AAR '37). The taller joint panel doors would have a -T ( for tall) to cover the door openings for a 10'6" IH car .

Examples:  A '37 AAR boxcar would typically be 6' pre-war 5/6/5-S Youngstown Steel door. Simplified to (the "S" could be left off as it could be inferred that the most common variant is the 'S'. A 10'6" IH AAR box car would have a taller door opening and the most common door for these cars was the . Fewer doors were built with the 'M' spacing.

1947 saw the introduction of the improved Youngstown door. Lessons learned from more than a decade of production of the pre-war versions allowed a redesign which was very noticeable. changes to the perimeter frame area strengthened the door. To accommodate these changes, the joint section was substantially changed. Now it was more like a crimped joint and no longer would the joint area be where slight variances in height would be achieved. From then on the height differences would be totally from the addition or subtraction of panels, and to a lesser degree, variations in the perimeter frame.

Most AAR box cars built at this time were to the 10'6" inside height. For about one year, this new door had a panel count of 6/6/5. After this brief period, the doors were made with 5/6/6 panels, and continued for decades with little changes. Since the joint sections were un-changing, no 'S' 'M' or 'T' appellations were necessary. A typical door for a 10'6" car would be <5/6/6 Improved YSD>.

Before this big change, around 1946, both Southern Pacific and the Santa Fe received Youngstown doors which shared techniques of both designs. Dan Hall, like nearly everyone else, labels these doors as "Interim-Improved". The SP door was <5/5/5 interim-improved YSD>. These doors gained a lot of notoriety as the doors used on the fleet of "Overnight" express box cars.

The most common doors from 1937 to 1948:
pre-war5/6/5-S YSD  (Intermountain in HO)
pre-war5/6/5-T YSD   (Intermountain in HO)
Interim-Improved 5/5/5 YSD (SP 1946-Southwest Scale Models in HO)
Interim-Improved 5/6/5 YSD (ATSF Bx-44 1946-Southwest Scale Models in HO)
Improved 6/6/5 YSD (1947 mostly) (Southwest Scale Models in HO)
Improved 5/6/6 YSD 1948 and on (Red Caboose, Branchline, Intermountain in HO)

Regards,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: What Are These Folks Doing?

Clark Propst
 

Dennis Storzek wrote: “I thought, while the RR was obligated to supply the grain doors, that the shipper was responsible for the labor to install them.”
 
I’ve been told the as a service to customers CNW had an ‘area’ centralized location to prepare cars for grain service. Maybe similar to this photo? – At least for a time.
A another friend told me he knew a guy that contracted with the Milwaukee to cooper box cars for grain loading at a given price pre car. Things went well, him buying and installing material for the harvest rush only to be left holding the bag one year because of a new shipment of covered hoppers that handled business . This same fella, who worked for the Milwaukee, also told of an elevator that would reject cars for miner issues, while another elevator down the line took anything they’d give them, so you know who got the most cars to load.
 
Hope to see many of you at Collinsville IL this weekend,
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: 6-ft 6-inch Youngstown Doors in 1/87

Benjamin Hom
 

Reposting Bill's question after converting it to plain text.


Ben Hom
________________________________
From: "fgexbill@tampabay.rr.com [STMFC]" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:19 AM
Subject: [STMFC] 6-ft 6-inch Youngstown Doors in 1/87

Here is the list of Youngstown doors from Ed Hawkins spread sheet for 1944 AAR cars with 4/4/ improved Dreadnaught ends. I am trying to sort out which ones are or have been available in either styrene or resin. I copied this directly from his spread sheet and the type is very small as I write this message and I tried to increase its size but failed.

YSD-1: Prewar version of Youngstown Steel door with recessed partition between panels
YSD-2: Improved Youngstown Steel Door with three sections (4/5/5 corrugation pattern, top to bottom)
YSD-2A: Improved Youngstown Steel Door with three sections (5/5/4 corrugation pattern, top to bottom)
YSD-3: Interim Youngstown Steel Door with three sections and wide raised partitions


Bill Welch


6-ft 6-inch Youngstown Doors in 1/87

Bill Welch
 

Here is the list of Youngstown doors from Ed Hawkins spread sheet for 1944 AAR cars with 4/4/ improved Dreadnaught ends. I am trying to sort out which ones are or have been available in either styrene or resin. I copied this directly from his spread sheet and the type is very small as I write this message and I tried to increase its size but failed.


YSD-1: Prewar version of Youngstown Steel door with recessed partition between panels

YSD-2: Improved Youngstown Steel Door with three sections (4/5/5 corrugation pattern, top to bottom)

YSD-2A: Improved Youngstown Steel Door with three sections (5/5/4 corrugation pattern, top to bottom)

YSD-3: Interim Youngstown Steel Door with three sections and wide raised partitions


Bill Welch


Focus on Freight Cars Vol. 5

Ted Culotta
 

As I hit the road for Collinsville, IL, I wanted to remind anyone interested that the pre-publication discount for Volume Five of Focus on Freight Cars runs through today, August 10. For more information, you can click the link to the Speedwitch site at the bottom of the email.

I will have Volumes One through Four available in Collinsville. Those of you who ordered Volume Four are just getting it or will see it in your mailbox this week as they have been shipped.

Cheers,
Ted


Re: DL&W yard and distant freight cars - 1911

John C. La Rue, Jr. <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

Er...the picture was taken in 1911, while the Lackawanna electrification did not begin until 1926.
 
Some work was undertaken and the cars with the bins on the roof were identified as supply cars. So far this design has only shown up on the Lackawanna.
 
John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL 
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: destorzek@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 4:29 pm
Subject: Re: Re: [STMFC] DL&W yard and distant freight cars - 1911

 
---In STMFC@..., wrote :

Looking at the photo I noticed a "WORK CAR" in back of the 4-4-0 camelback.

Curious as to the "growth" on the roof of the car.  What was it used for?
=============

We've seen these in other of these DL&W photos. They remind me of "wire train" work cars, where the roofs of a whole string of cars were used as a platform to assemble the catenary. Catenary overhead had lots of parts, and each span, often close to 300 feet in length, needed to be assembled at one time, adding weight evenly so the messenger wire kept its catenary curve as the parts were assembled, so there were large bins on the car roofs to hold all the components. I know Scranton is too far west for the electrification, but there's a good chance that these cars were surplus from the last big wire construction project, and were just reassigned as tool cars around the system, without removing the rooftop bins.

Dennis Storzek



Re: DL&W yard and distant freight cars - 1911

Dennis Storzek
 

---In STMFC@..., <richramik@...> wrote :

Looking at the photo I noticed a "WORK CAR" in back of the 4-4-0 camelback.

Curious as to the "growth" on the roof of the car.  What was it used for?
=============

We've seen these in other of these DL&W photos. They remind me of "wire train" work cars, where the roofs of a whole string of cars were used as a platform to assemble the catenary. Catenary overhead had lots of parts, and each span, often close to 300 feet in length, needed to be assembled at one time, adding weight evenly so the messenger wire kept its catenary curve as the parts were assembled, so there were large bins on the car roofs to hold all the components. I know Scranton is too far west for the electrification, but there's a good chance that these cars were surplus from the last big wire construction project, and were just reassigned as tool cars around the system, without removing the rooftop bins.

Dennis Storzek



Re: DL&W yard and distant freight cars - 1911

Douglas Harding
 

Rick the “growth” you reference is probably tool boxes  or storage boxes for supplies used by the crew. In that era if it was a stockcar similar boxes would contain hay and/or feed.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: DL&W yard and distant freight cars - 1911

MDelvec952
 



Most of the DL&W boxcars with those boxes on the roof are lettered as "PAINTERS CARS" for maintaining everything from depots to bridges to signs or anything along the right-of-way. These cars regularly show up on team tracks or spurs near stations in this photo collection.

Does anyone recognize that DL&W with the Howe-truss-like bracing just under the 4-4-0 Camelback? There were a small batch of these; does anyone know the builder or if other roads had this car? I find these very interesting for the era.

Thanks                     ....Mike Del Vecchio


-----Original Message-----
From: richramik@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 1:55 pm
Subject: Re: Re: [STMFC] DL&W yard and distant freight cars - 1911

 
Looking at the photo I noticed a "WORK CAR" in back of the 4-4-0 camelback.

Curious as to the "growth" on the roof of the car.  What was it used for?

Thanks,
Rich Ramik

 
 
 
On 08/08/16, Schleigh Mike mike_schleigh@... [STMFC]<STMFC@...> wrote:
 
 
You stole my comment, Eric- ---

B&S 10001-10500  Pressed Steel Car Co.  1905-06 (B&O 139028-249)
B&S 10501-11250  Unknown builder  (Same B&O series)
B&S 12101-12600  PSCCo.  1907  (B&O 11601-12595)

All 41-9 IL cars with drop bottoms.  Did not last long past the B&S acquisition of 1932.

PS&N 9143 was from series 9100-9199, AC&F 1899, originally 100-199.  36-8 IL, 30 ton cars, note with Fox trucks.

Ah the old stuff----great times!

Mike Schleigh, Grove City, Penna.


On Monday, August 8, 2016 2:08 PM, "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 
Agreed.
 
This collection is nearly pure gold andan amazing historical documentation of massive changes in Lackawanna Country.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
 
 
 

From: STMFC@... [mailto: STMFC@... ]
Sent: Monday, August 08, 201612:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] DL&W yardand distant freight cars - 1911
 


Eric

What a fantastic picture! It captures the industrialization of America perfectly. The bucolic
scenery, and then a massive, brand new roundhouse and railroad yard. And youhave to love
that foot path from the roundhouse to the boarding house!!

And photographed from a CULM BANK ? A hundred foot tall pile of waste rock ??What a
lovely addition to the scenery! :-)

Tim O'Connor





Schuyler,
 
Th e next couple of images are great! A Buffalo & Susquehanna steel gondolais featured. I didnt know the B&S had any steel gons.
http://lists.railfan.net/erielack-photo/erielack-08-07-16/B0799.jpg
 
And note a Shawmut box car is parked on the stores track to the right of theroundhouse.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso , TX




Box Car rosters; was Trucks used on NS 27000-27249

Andy Carlson
 

Ed, your rosters have been an immensely big help for me. This is yet another reason why we are in the middle of the Golden Age of model railroading. Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



From: "Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC]"
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Trucks used on NS '47 blt 27000-27249 box cars

 

On Aug 8, 2016, at 7:49 PM, Andy Carlson midcentury@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Earlier this year I offered some Intermountain box car kits on another Yahoo groups web site. These were part of my offerings of "Enhanced" box car kits with several parts added to more closely match the intended prototype. I have seen the table from the Steam Era Freight Car web site which I believe Ed Hawkins provided. No truck data was included.

One of the kit's buyer has asked me if I can give him a recommendation for truck(s) which were used on these cars. I don't know.

Anyone out here provide an answer?

Andy,
Trucks on NS 27000-27249 were A-3 Ride Control with AAR cast iron wheels. 

Incidentally, I’ve done some major updating on most of my original steel box car rosters that now date back 10 years or so. In most cases the new lists include a number of additional columns. I just don’t know how to get the updated lists to the web site.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



Re: DL&W yard and distant freight cars - 1911

richramik@...
 

Looking at the photo I noticed a "WORK CAR" in back of the 4-4-0 camelback.

Curious as to the "growth" on the roof of the car.  What was it used for?

Thanks,
Rich Ramik

 
 
 

On 08/08/16, Schleigh Mike mike_schleigh@... [STMFC] wrote:
 
 

You stole my comment, Eric----

B&S 10001-10500  Pressed Steel Car Co.  1905-06 (B&O 139028-249)
B&S 10501-11250  Unknown builder  (Same B&O series)
B&S 12101-12600  PSCCo.  1907  (B&O 11601-12595)

All 41-9 IL cars with drop bottoms.  Did not last long past the B&S acquisition of 1932.

PS&N 9143 was from series 9100-9199, AC&F 1899, originally 100-199.  36-8 IL, 30 ton cars, note with Fox trucks.

Ah the old stuff----great times!

Mike Schleigh, Grove City, Penna.


On Monday, August 8, 2016 2:08 PM, "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...> wrote:


 
Agreed.
 
This collection is nearly pure gold andan amazing historical documentation of massive changes in Lackawanna Country.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
 
 
 

From: STMFC@... [mailto: STMFC@... ]
Sent: Monday, August 08, 201612:00 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] DL&W yardand distant freight cars - 1911
 


Eric

What a fantastic picture! It captures the industrialization of America perfectly. The bucolic
scenery, and then a massive, brand new roundhouse and railroad yard. And youhave to love
that foot path from the roundhouse to the boarding house!!

And photographed from a CULM BANK ? A hundred foot tall pile of waste rock ??What a
lovely addition to the scenery! :-)

Tim O'Connor





Schuyler,
 
The next couple of images are great! A Buffalo & Susquehanna steel gondolais featured. I didnt know the B&S had any steel gons.
http://lists.railfan.net/erielack-photo/erielack-08-07-16/B0799.jpg
 
And note a Shawmut box car is parked on the stores track to the right of theroundhouse.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso , TX




Re: What Are These Folks Doing?

Rod Miller
 

On 8/8/16 11:41 AM, jcdworkingonthenp@onebox.com [STMFC] wrote:

[snip]


One last thing, by any means, the photo represents an "industry" to me. Any XM
car from any road.

For years/decades of wondering about photos showing reefers stuffing a siding
in a small town north of the Twin Cities on the area I am modeling, and no fruit
or vegetable concerns to be found. And after conferring with other NP experts on
this "phenomenon", and them adding nothing factual, I found a letter stating
that a small part (20' x 20') of a larger building was in use by a firm
coopering these reefers.

This "coopering" firm will be an industry I model. And even though this
industry could hold no more than the load of one boxcar, it can prototypically
serve many boxcars or in my case, reefers.

&!
[snip]

Repeating because this is a perfect industry for a model RR
and I want to make sure it doesn't get missed in the long
message.

--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives, | O Scale West / S West
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More | 2016 Meet is May 5 - 7
http://www.rodmiller.com | http://www.oscalewest.com


Re: DL&W yard and distant freight cars - 1911

Benjamin Hom
 

William Dale asked:
"What I found most interesting is the DL&W "Vehicle" box 4077 (4000-4099).  I dug out my oldest ORER from April 1930 and it is listed as a staggered door vehicle box with steel under frame with a height of 14'8'' to the top of the running board! That seems like quite a large piece of rolling stock for the day." 

It was very large for its day.  These monster cars were fairly rare, but 36 ft double-sheathed automobile/furniture cars were more numerous than you think.  Here are contemporary examples from PRR and NYC:

PRR Class XLC 

NYC Lot 247-B


"As there were only 3 left on the roster in April '30, this I'm sure would have been built 1890's?"

If it had a steel underframe, not 1890s, but more likely post-1905 unless it was rebuilt with one.


"Would this have had some kind of auto loader in it? This era is not my strongest, anyone possibly have an answer?"

No auto loader.  These didn't appear until the 1930s.


Ben Hom


Re: DL&W yard and distant freight cars - 1911

William Dale
 

What I found most interesting is the DL&W "Vehicle" box 4077 (4000-4099).  I dug out my oldest ORER from April 1930 and it is listed as a staggered door vehicle box with steel under frame with a height of 14'8'' to the top of the running board! That seems like quite a large piece of rolling stock for the day.  As there were only 3 left on the roster in April '30, this I'm sure would have been built 1890's???? would this have had some kind of auto loader in it??? This era is not my strongest, anyone possibly have an answer.

William Dale


Re: What Are These Folks Doing?

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <jimbetz@...> wrote :

So ... I say "grain doors". (cardboard)
- Jim B.
===================

And by the mid fifties era of the photo, they most likely would be cardboard. It also appears they are covering the floors with cardboard.

One thing bothers me about grain doors, however. I thought, while the RR was obligated to supply the grain doors, that the shipper was responsible for the labor to install them.

Maybe Guy Wilber can answer this - Was there a standard charge for the railroad to install grain doors?

Dennis Storzek


Re: What Are These Folks Doing?

Richard Townsend
 

But who knows what need may have existed around Clovis for clean, tight cars? Not necessarily grain. Just something needing good cars.
 
Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Hom b.hom@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Mon, Aug 8, 2016 10:21 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] What Are These Folks Doing?

 
Rich Townshend wrote:
"I support the grain rush hypothesis, or something like it."

The location of the work (Clovis NM) is throwing me off.  Granted, it could be because Clovis is lighter loaded than Topeka, but you'd think the work would be done closer to the area of need.


Ben Hom

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