Date   

Re: Covered Hopper Roof photo posted

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

The 10 hatch car could be RDG, or I think, PRR.

----- Original Message -----
From: tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:17 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Covered Hopper Roof photo posted


I've just uploaded a photo of the Bangor, PA yards of the DL&W taken on
Columbus Day 1961. It's at http://home.att.net/~tgmadden/Bangor2.JPG Like
the NYC tank car - box car - Pullman photo, this is a big one at just over 1
Meg, so you can see the details


No Subject

MIDCENTURYANDY@...
 

What is & where are Prototype rails? (The one Brock alluded to) Andy Carlson
of SO Cal


Covered Hopper Roof photo posted

tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
 

I've just uploaded a photo of the Bangor, PA yards of the DL&W taken on
Columbus Day 1961. It's at http://home.att.net/~tgmadden/Bangor2.JPG Like
the NYC tank car - box car - Pullman photo, this is a big one at just over 1
Meg, so you can see the details.

It was taken from a bridge at the South end of the facility, and in the
lower left foreground there is a string of covered hoppers. The first one
has a metal running board, and the second has wood. Sorry I don't have road
name or number info on those cars. There are a couple of DL&W cabooses also
in the shot, an LV box car, and along the upper left edge a couple of gons
with cement containers. The bridge from where I took the photo is still
there, but everything else with the exception of a few foundations is long
gone.

I used Ektachrome in an Argus C-44, and the color balance, which had shifted
considerably toward red, was restored somewhat in PhotoShop. I'll keep
rummaging through my late '50s - early '60s photos to see what I find. At
the time I used my Nikon F for B&W and the Argus for color slides.

Tom Madden

tgmadden@...


Re: AC&F covered hoppers

billd@...
 

Speaking of helium cars, somewhere or other around the house
I've got several shots of the real helium cars on SP's
EPTUD/TUEPD. They always ran in pairs, had clasp brakes on
their heavy-duty trucks (for something as light as helium,
those cars were rather heavy) and went back and forth
between the coast and (I guess) New Mexico where I am told
there are helium mines...just don't ask me how you mine
helium. Outcropping as Helium PentaFlouride?

Bill Daniels

On Thu, 3 May 2001 14:48:29 -0700 (PDT)
Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...> wrote:
On May 3, 5:23pm, byronrose@... wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] AC&F covered hoppers

Whoa Bill, now you're violating rule number one: "It's
my layout and if
you don't like what I'm running, you're excused." I
just love pulling
Heinz "reefers" with the new Atlas Dash 8s I just
bought. I bet they'll
pull a 200 car train without breaking a sweat.

BS
Byron,

Per your reputation, I expected better from you. At
least have
the guts to pull a unit train of Heinz pickle cars,
instead of mere
reefers!

Perhaps if Richard Hendrickson ever comes to visit,
you'll let him
run his unit train of helium cars on your layout.

Regards,

-Jeff




--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer
jaley@...
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

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Re: AC&F covered hoppers

billd@...
 

True, true. Can't argue with you there.

Too bad the real PRR couldn't be running Dash-8's MUed with
a Q-2!

Bill Daniels

On Thu, 3 May 2001 17:23:48 -0400
byronrose@... wrote:


On Wed, 02 May 2001 17:59:02 -0700 <billd@...>
writes:
Oh, one more item, Dr Bruce...

If I recall correctly aren't GP-30's a wee bit new for
1944?

Thought so...

You really should try some of those Athearn Genesis
F-7's...they make the GP-30's look shabby (and they
were
built in the {late}1940's...)

Bill Daniels

Whoa Bill, now you're violating rule number one: "It's
my layout and if
you don't like what I'm running, you're excused." I just
love pulling
Heinz "reefers" with the new Atlas Dash 8s I just bought.
I bet they'll
pull a 200 car train without breaking a sweat.

BS

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Re: Gilbert HO reefer possibilities.

Richard Hendrickson
 

C'mon Richard, you know that by definition, you can't defame a lawyer.
You know that, Byron, and I know that - but do the lawyers know that?

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: AC&F covered hoppers

Guy Wilber
 


Roco depressed center flat

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Back in the mid-'80's, Roco offered a 50 foot depressed center flat with 6
wheel Buckeye trucks.
The closest I can find (in terms of basic length, 6 wheel trucks) is the PRR
F29 class, although I need to compare the model with the prototype photos.
But is anyone aware of what prototype the Roco might be? - John


Re: AC&F covered hoppers

Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

On May 3, 5:23pm, byronrose@... wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] AC&F covered hoppers

Whoa Bill, now you're violating rule number one: "It's my layout and if
you don't like what I'm running, you're excused." I just love pulling
Heinz "reefers" with the new Atlas Dash 8s I just bought. I bet they'll
pull a 200 car train without breaking a sweat.

BS
Byron,

Per your reputation, I expected better from you. At least have
the guts to pull a unit train of Heinz pickle cars, instead of mere
reefers!

Perhaps if Richard Hendrickson ever comes to visit, you'll let him
run his unit train of helium cars on your layout.

Regards,

-Jeff




--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@...
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: AC&F covered hoppers

byronrose@...
 

On Thu, 3 May 2001 08:18:57 -0500 "Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D."
<smithbf@...> writes:

Yeah, I had noticed the difference in the latch...I hadn't decided
if I was
going to do anything about it, since the latch mechanism provided by
Kato
is both nice and fragile...but NOW THAT YOU'VE TOLD THE WHOLE
WORLD...guess
I'll have to fix it <G>. Since I recently got a grit blaster, I'll
probably strip the sides with that to remove any chance of the
lettering
showing through, and since I'm going that far, the molded grabs will
be
replaced as well (Geez, this just went from a simple repaint to
another
rebuild job!). Any other details I need to change to make them AC&F
Erie
LOs?

Happy Rails
Bruce
Actually, this could be a can of worms. There were about 7 latch/hatch
variations, 3-4 roof variations, and at least 5 running board variations
on ACF covered hopper built in the late 30s-early 40s. Also rivet
pattern and brake equipment and brake step variants. Plus there's that
idiotic joint to hide where the step is attached on the OUTSIDE of the
Kato body.

Happy bashing,

BSR

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Re: AC&F covered hoppers

byronrose@...
 

On Wed, 02 May 2001 17:59:02 -0700 <billd@...> writes:
Oh, one more item, Dr Bruce...

If I recall correctly aren't GP-30's a wee bit new for 1944?

Thought so...

You really should try some of those Athearn Genesis
F-7's...they make the GP-30's look shabby (and they were
built in the {late}1940's...)

Bill Daniels

Whoa Bill, now you're violating rule number one: "It's my layout and if
you don't like what I'm running, you're excused." I just love pulling
Heinz "reefers" with the new Atlas Dash 8s I just bought. I bet they'll
pull a 200 car train without breaking a sweat.

BS

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Re: AC&F covered hoppers

byronrose@...
 

On Wed, 02 May 2001 17:56:00 -0700 <billd@...> writes:
Well, well, well...

I am glad to see it isn't only documentary producers who
make mistakes :-)

These most likely hauled cement, however sometimes covered
hoppers in this era also hauled carbon black.

Bill Daniels

Unlikely Bill, that a cement car would carry carbon black unless they
wanted to pour a very dark grey (or gray) concrete. Carbon black was
shipped in covered hoppers, but they were dedicated cars, larger than the
1790 and 1958 cu ft cars used for cement, etc, and used for no other
purpose.

BSR

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Re: Gilbert HO reefer possibilities.

byronrose@...
 

On Wed, 2 May 2001 09:49:03 -0700 Richard Hendrickson
<rhendrickson@...> writes:

Defamation of character, Byron. The lawsuit's in the mail.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

C'mon Richard, you know that by definition, you can't defame a lawyer.

BS
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Re: AC&F covered hoppers

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. <smithbf@...>
 

Oh, one more item, Dr Bruce...

If I recall correctly aren't GP-30's a wee bit new for 1944?
Yeah, a bit, but ever since I was a wee lad the GP-30 has fascinated
me...Its really one of very few diesels I find interesting...Of course, I
would never have paid the list price ($95) for them, but my hobby shop had
'em at 60% off on Saturday for his annual "sidewalk sale", so I picked up a
couple...I figure that I'll add trainphones, weather them, and use them on
somebody elses layout <G>.

As an aside to Mr. Brock, I tried not to let Brianna see these locomotives,
as they might be an "innappropriate influence", but much to my chagrin she
found them in the bag, and made me take them out and run them. Happily,
she immediately decided that she preferred to run the N&W Y-3 on the next
track (that's my girl!). BTW, she and I started work on detailing a
Walthers Russel plow to PRR specs this weekend...hopefully it will be ready
for Prototype Rails-Cocoa 2002...only one problem...she wants it to be
yellow, and I want grey/black (pre 1953 PRR MOW).

For those of you not "in the know", my daughter Brianna will turn 3 in
June, is an avid railfan, and has earned a lifetime pass to Mike's layout
room by requesting "more steam engines!" (and hosing a bunch of diesel
heads (aka Jim Six and Mike Rose) in the process <G>)

You really should try some of those Athearn Genesis
F-7's...they make the GP-30's look shabby (and they were
built in the {late}1940's...)
They are SPECTACULAR, but alas, they were not on sale...

I did also pick up some Stewart 55 ton Hoppers (LV and WM), LL P2K Type 21,
8,000 gallon tanks,(required STMFC content <G>) and a Walthers Double Track
Swing Bridge (YUCK - ask me more on that in some other post if you care,
and I'll go into my plans for it) for 30% off.

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
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Re: AC&F covered hoppers

billd@...
 

Hey Bruce...

Wouldn't it be easier to start with the Bowser covered
hopper? I believe they are of the same prototype that the
Kato car is and the Bowser is available in both open and
closed versions and is better detailed, regularly
available...and cheaper to boot!

Bill Daniels
Tucson, AZ

On Thu, 3 May 2001 08:18:57 -0500
"Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D." <smithbf@...>
wrote:

Mike wrote:

Bruce, I'm not of the opinion that the Kato cars are
aqctually models of
AC&F cars. I agree, of course, that they are of AC&F
design...as Richard
notes. However, the hatch latching mech seems to be one
used more by General
American. Certainly the UP Ch-70-2, for which Kato
provides a model, were
built by Gen. American. The only reason I mention this
is to suggest that
you check out the hatch latching...and perhaps the
hatches as well...on the
Erie cars. For instance, the one in the photo on pg 28
in Richard's article
has single tines instead of the 2 as provided by
Kato...and which is correct
for Gen. American built cars...sometimes [ note my usual
hedge ]. Why is
this important? Who knows...maybe a tine counter will
show up someday.

Yeah, I had noticed the difference in the latch...I
hadn't decided if I was
going to do anything about it, since the latch mechanism
provided by Kato
is both nice and fragile...but NOW THAT YOU'VE TOLD THE
WHOLE WORLD...guess
I'll have to fix it <G>. Since I recently got a grit
blaster, I'll
probably strip the sides with that to remove any chance
of the lettering
showing through, and since I'm going that far, the molded
grabs will be
replaced as well (Geez, this just went from a simple
repaint to another
rebuild job!). Any other details I need to change to
make them AC&F Erie
LOs?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be
happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___
____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __
__ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; |
||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
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0-0-0



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Re: AC&F covered hoppers

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Bruce Smith writes:

Any other details I need to change to make them AC&F Erie
LOs?
Bruce, not being Erie literate, I'm not sure. You might want to be sure you
put 70 ton trucks under it just in case a "truck checker" comes by. If you
want the car to be a big hit, you could make the latching mech actually
operate...like I did on my UP CH-70-1 E&B Valley rebuild. It actually is
kind of neat...I may have showed it to you during Prototype Rails last Jan.
I also made the hatches so they could be opened. You can use it on a train
and also position it with some hatches open.

Good luck. Oh. Be sure and bring it down to Prototype Rails next yr.

Mike Brock


Re: AC&F covered hoppers

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. <smithbf@...>
 

Mike wrote:

Bruce, I'm not of the opinion that the Kato cars are aqctually models of
AC&F cars. I agree, of course, that they are of AC&F design...as Richard
notes. However, the hatch latching mech seems to be one used more by General
American. Certainly the UP Ch-70-2, for which Kato provides a model, were
built by Gen. American. The only reason I mention this is to suggest that
you check out the hatch latching...and perhaps the hatches as well...on the
Erie cars. For instance, the one in the photo on pg 28 in Richard's article
has single tines instead of the 2 as provided by Kato...and which is correct
for Gen. American built cars...sometimes [ note my usual hedge ]. Why is
this important? Who knows...maybe a tine counter will show up someday.
Yeah, I had noticed the difference in the latch...I hadn't decided if I was
going to do anything about it, since the latch mechanism provided by Kato
is both nice and fragile...but NOW THAT YOU'VE TOLD THE WHOLE WORLD...guess
I'll have to fix it <G>. Since I recently got a grit blaster, I'll
probably strip the sides with that to remove any chance of the lettering
showing through, and since I'm going that far, the molded grabs will be
replaced as well (Geez, this just went from a simple repaint to another
rebuild job!). Any other details I need to change to make them AC&F Erie
LOs?

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|____________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Gilbert HO reefer possibilities.

MIDCENTURYANDY@...
 

Byron, you are so funny!!! Thanks for the note. I talked to Paul last night
where he informed me that he had sent product to Western Star the day before.
This morning I called Larry @ West. Str. and he had already filled all back
orders, and was still short. As a favor to me, he pulled 15 A's so I can get
the frigging Aussies off my back (They paid with a money order 21/2 years
ago!). Western Star carries Plano products FWIW. Talk to you soon, Andy
Carlson. Exploding boxcar roofs, now why didn't I think of that!


KATO hopper

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Removing paint from covered hoppers usually results in broken parts. Try
using a commercial model paint remover just on the side panels. That way
you keep the tooth brush your scrubbing the lettering with away from the
more delicate parts.
Clark


Re: Gilbert HO reefer possibilities.

tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
 

Andy Carlson wrote:

Hi guys. I have this fine quality reefer I bought at a swap meet that was
made by AC Gilbert. My question to the group: does anyone know of an easy
way
to remove the molded on RUNNING BOARD? Is the paint job accurate for Gerber
Food's? I would like to make a contest quality model without too much work.
I
already have replaced the molded on brake wheel with a dressmaker's snap(I
read about that in a Kalmbach magazine once). Any suggestions would be
appreciated. Your fellow fine-scale modeler, Andy

Just back from Texas, so I'll take a crack at Andy's question.

Andy, are you sure of the lineage of that model? It may be a rare model from
that Korean modelmaker, Gilbert Ho. Gilbert's brother, Lionel Ho, offered
some similar models in the early '60s, but Gilbert's models date to the
'40s.

As for that "molded on running board", it is correct. That is the "flush"
version, flush in this case being a verb rather than an adjective. Some
modelers like to call it a "roof walk", but this is an anglicized version of
"roof wok", the term Oriental laborers gave to the first metal running
boards when they discovered the summer desert sun made them hot enough to
cook on.

Your Gerber reefer is a model of an interesting prototype. You're a GN fan,
so you surely know that the GN bought several Gerber cars before W.W.II,
painted out the reporting marks and stenciled in "GN", equipped them with
Allied Full Monty trucks for express service and used them on the
heavyweight Empire Builder. Why don't you do the same and bring it to
Naperville? It'll certainly be a hit, and everyone is sure to talk about
your modeling ability.

Your friend, Tom

194061 - 194080 of 195507