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Re: AC&F covered hoppers

Richard Hendrickson
 

Bill Daniels wrote:

Helium...does have mass. When
compressed and loaded into those tanks on the cars, it
weighs quite a bit. Although I never was able to read the
load limit and lt. wt of the cars. Maybe somebody out there
with better eyes than I have...can read the data off one of the cars and
report
same.
In the late 1960s I photographed MHAX 1154, a helium car built by AC&F in
December of 1960, including a number of close-up views. Nominal capacity
was 100 tons and light weight was 240400. The weight was mostly in the
very heavy steel tanks which were designed to hold helium at very high
pressures - and, yes, helium under pressure is NOT lighter than air. This
car had roller bearing trucks and, like all the helium cars I've ever seen,
it was equipped with clasp brakes.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: New Intermountain box car

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim, you write:


Intermountain has announced a "new" box car kit - 10 panel,
10'6", 4/4 ends, 8-rung ladders. The first road name is CN
cars in numbers from 5262xx to 5269xx. According to an RMJ
article by Ed Hawkins, this covers cars built in 1948 by
CC&F and Eastern Car Co. (?). The ends on both types of cars
should be Improved DE Type 2 (shortened upper rib), while the
roofs should be Diagonal Panel. The picture on the web site
shows a car with a Rectangular Panel roof -- a major mistake
if that's how they are packaged!!
"Say it ain't so, Joe!" Not another goof. Which issue of RMJ, Tim?

Mike Brock


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


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New Intermountain box car

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Intermountain has announced a "new" box car kit - 10 panel,
10'6", 4/4 ends, 8-rung ladders. The first road name is CN
cars in numbers from 5262xx to 5269xx. According to an RMJ
article by Ed Hawkins, this covers cars built in 1948 by
CC&F and Eastern Car Co. (?). The ends on both types of cars
should be Improved DE Type 2 (shortened upper rib), while the
roofs should be Diagonal Panel. The picture on the web site
shows a car with a Rectangular Panel roof -- a major mistake
if that's how they are packaged!!


Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: AC&F covered hoppers

billd@...
 


It comes from gas wells.
Of course, I know this (can't a guy have ANY fun around
here???)

One town thought they had hit
an "unlimited"
source of natural gas, but during the ceremony to light
the "eternal
flame" the rushing gas kept blowing out the torch they
were trying to
light it with. Too much helium.
Oops...

The wells in 1938 were mostly in Kansas and Texas.

OK, I'm getting entirely too serious here... DID THESE
CARS WEIGH
MORE EMPTY OR LOADED?
Yes.

In all seriousness (see comment about fun above) the cars
actually weighted more full. Helium, although less dense
than the mix of gasses we call air (79.9% N2, 20.0% O2, 0.2%
CO2, everything else, trace) it does have mass. When
compressed and loaded into those tanks on the cars, it
weighs quite a bit. Although I never was able to read the
load limit and lt. wt of the cars. Maybe somebody out there
with better eyes than I have (actually having one of the
cars would help :-) or lacking that a good magnifying
glass, can read the data off one of the cars and report
same.


Bill Daniels

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Re: re helium cars loaded weights

MIDCENTURYANDY@...
 

During my very brief stint as a Teacher, I liked to pose that same
question. You would be surprised to learn ( or maybe not) that adults were
equally likely to think the loaded cars were lighter, as were the students.
My guess is that physics is not an intuitive thought subject, even though we
have had 100 years of public education. I am heartened, though, that most
Americans know who Eminnem is. Andy Carlson.


Re: AC&F covered hoppers

Tom Gloger
 

--- billd@... wrote:
Speaking of helium cars, somewhere or other around the house
I've got several shots of the real helium cars on SP's
EPTUD/TUEPD. They always ran in pairs, had clasp brakes on
their heavy-duty trucks (for something as light as helium,
those cars were rather heavy) and went back and forth
between the coast and (I guess) New Mexico where I am told
there are helium mines...just don't ask me how you mine
helium. Outcropping as Helium PentaFlouride?

Bill Daniels
It comes from gas wells. One town thought they had hit an "unlimited"
source of natural gas, but during the ceremony to light the "eternal
flame" the rushing gas kept blowing out the torch they were trying to
light it with. Too much helium.

The wells in 1938 were mostly in Kansas and Texas.

OK, I'm getting entirely too serious here... DID THESE CARS WEIGH
MORE EMPTY OR LOADED?

=====
- Tom Gloger e-mail: mailto:tomgloger@...
web page: http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.tgloger

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Re: Prototype Rails

Richard Hendrickson
 

Andy Carlson asks:

What is & where are Prototype rails? (The one Brock alluded to) Andy
Carlson
of SO Cal
Andy, Prototype Rails is an annual prototype modeling event which I
initiated. The first meet was held at Cocoa Beach, Florida last Jan 12 and
13 at the Hilton Hotel. Bruce Smith refers to a similar Savannah prototype
modeling meet as the first of such meets. This is not really true, I think,
although, frankly, I have not attended others than the one at Savannah and
RPM meets at the NMRA National. If we group all prototype modeling events
together...which I prefer to do... I think Naperville is the oldest and most
well known. Others that I am aware of are various ones held in California
and Pittsburgh. I think Bill Welch was involved with another one in the
east.
You initiated it? Gee, Mike, for some reason everyone on the Prototype
Modeler list seems to be under the impression that Jim Six put it on. I
wonder how they got that idea? Seriously, the RPM meets at the NMRA
National have been taking place since 1985, though NMRA support for them
has varied widely according to the inclinations of the local committees.
In recent years, the meets at Atlanta (thanks to Scott Chatfield), Kansas
City (thanks to Keith Jordan) and Madison. WI (thanks to a number of people
on the local committee) have been, in my opinion, especially successful.
San Jose was sort of a bust, but that wasn't because the NMRA folks let us
down but because of the anti-social behavior of some dissidents in the RPM
group. I will add that the NMRA Pacific Coast Region has had RPM meets at
every convention since the late 1980s, and is having another one in San
Luis Obispo next weekend. Pete Solyum's meet in Southern California has
also been going on for a long time, though I don't know exactly when it
started. So Naperville isn't the oldest, but it's probably the oldest
stand-alone meet and certainly the best known and most strongly supported.
Of course, it helps that there are a lot of prototype modelers in and
around Chicago and that the windy city is pretty easy to get to by air from
almost anywhere in the country. It's not even hard to get there by rail,
if (like Jeff English) you refuse to travel any other way.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Prototype Rails

ibs4421@...
 

Mike,
I already wished that I could have attended, but even more so now. Since my work schedule and family obligations prevent me from attending, now or in the forseeable future, are there any handouts available for some of these clinics? I know I could sure put some of that info to good use.

Home-bound,

Warren Dickinson

PS: Went to go look at a "steam-era" house today (ca. 1900) , with the idea of buying it and fixing it up. The wife has already agreed that running an HO scale diesel in that house would be a sacrilege. :)


Prototype Rails

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Andy Carlson asks:

What is & where are Prototype rails? (The one Brock alluded to) Andy
Carlson
of SO Cal
Andy, Prototype Rails is an annual prototype modeling event which I
initiated. The first meet was held at Cocoa Beach, Florida last Jan 12 and
13 at the Hilton Hotel. Bruce Smith refers to a similar Savannah prototype
modeling meet as the first of such meets. This is not really true, I think,
although, frankly, I have not attended others than the one at Savannah and
RPM meets at the NMRA National. If we group all prototype modeling events
together...which I prefer to do... I think Naperville is the oldest and most
well known. Others that I am aware of are various ones held in California
and Pittsburgh. I think Bill Welch was involved with another one in the
east.

Each meet has a somewhat different flavor I think...which is probably good.
The Savannah meet last year was primarily a model display event with a
couple of clinics. There was a large number of models on display but I don't
know the number. Naperville, from what I know, seems to be an event
emphasizing seminars on the prototype, modeling the prototype, and with
accompanying models on display. The level of seminar presenters is quite
high and includes the most well known...to me...experts in the hobby.
Prototype Rails [ in Cocoa Beach ] has the theme of The Prototype and How to
Model It. We emphasize equally seminar/clinics and displaying of models.
This last Jan we had over 800 models present and 26 different
clinic/seminars in 39 different clinic time periods. We were very fortunate
and managed to put together an impressive list of presenters at our first
meet. Next year should be even more impressive and I intend to begin to
publicize it all beginning in June. The Savannah meet will be held this June
1/2. There will be a meet held in Cleveland, OH, on Oct 5/6 which will be
similar to the Savannah meet, I think, with emphasis on the display of
models with clinics on model building. Jim Six is running that event.

Here is a list of last yr's cinicians:
1. Modeling the L&N in Appalachia: John Wilkes [ see Trackside Photos ,
July MR]
2. Signals, Signal Systems and How to Model Them: Ken Farnham
3. Freight Car Braking Equipment: Ron Dettmer [ An ex CSX employee, Ron has
detailed
information about this equipment]
4. Operations: Bruce Metcalf
5. Rust and how to Model it: Mike Rose [ see Sep/Oct RMC ]
6. Less Than Carload Container Cars and Loads: Al Westerfield
8. Modeling the UP on Sherman Hill: Mike Brock
9. Weathering Diesels and Cars: Jim Six
10. Modern tank cars: Tim Frederick
11. Getting to Know Steam Locomotives: Andy Sperandeo
12. Prototypes for Passenger Car Models: Andy Harman
13. Appalachian Coal Industry: John Roberts
14: Shay Locomotives: Lou Ullian
15. The Bone Valley :Tom Bissett [CSX engineer]
16. Prototype Track Planning and Practices: Tom Bissett
17. Methods of Modeling Passenger Cars: Joe Oates [Ex CSX employee]
18. Shading and Highlighting, Weathering with Artificial Light: Greg Martin
[see many articles in Mainline Modeler]
20. Modeling Santa Fe Grain Cars [exact title may change]: Ken Edmier
21. Detailing buildings: Dayna Warner
22. Steam Locomotive Sound and Operations: Bruce Smith
23. Scott Chatfield: Subject to be Announced
24. Realistic Scenery: Jon Addison [ owner of a superb Sn3 mudular layout
which will also be present ].
25. Scenery, North and South: Bob Miller

If anyone has an interest in doing a seminar/clinic next Jan in Cocoa Beach,
FL...next to the Space Center...let me know.

Mike Brock
Boss...Prototype Rails


Re: No Subject

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. <smithbf@...>
 

What is & where are Prototype rails? (The one Brock alluded to) Andy Carlson
of SO Cal
Prototype Rails, Cocoa Beach Florida (think I dream of Genie...) version 1
was January of this year, organized by Mike, and attended by many of the
Prototype Modeler List members...Something like 800+ models were display
with NO COMPETITION, and numerous seminars and clinics were given, along
with a few layout visits. We're on for version 2 next January

The original "Prototype Rails" in Savannah is June 1&2 this year, with a
meet scheduled for Cleveland later in the year that looks to be really
great too!

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

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Music to Model By

ibs4421@...
 

Fellers,
I hope to work on some resin kits once summer gets in full
swing around here. (That is the required STMFC content.)
Now, for those of you on the list whose model RR empires are set in the
WWII years go to this site:

http://www.live365.com/cgi-bin/directory.cgi?genre=search&searchdesc=jg52

This is the website for live365.com, a web-based broadcasting service. You
should see something on your screen saying something like "HORRIDO! A
service of Jadgeschwader 52". Click on the yellow and black loudspeaker on
the left side. (You may have to install a player like Winamp.) When you
click on the speaker, you will be able to listen to broadcasts of WWII era
radio shows. Great to build resin kits to, or just add some great
atmosphere to that wartime layout. they supposedly have some way you can
broadcast it from your PC to your stereo. I've been getting news updates,
war bond commercials, and Axis Sally & Tokyo Rose have even faded in and out
a little here and there this morning. Gotta go, Bye-bye and BUY those War
Bonds!!!!!!!!

Warren Dickinson


Re: Covered Hopper Roof photo posted

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

The 10 hatch car could be RDG, or I think, PRR.

----- Original Message -----
From: tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 10:17 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Covered Hopper Roof photo posted


I've just uploaded a photo of the Bangor, PA yards of the DL&W taken on
Columbus Day 1961. It's at http://home.att.net/~tgmadden/Bangor2.JPG Like
the NYC tank car - box car - Pullman photo, this is a big one at just over 1
Meg, so you can see the details


No Subject

MIDCENTURYANDY@...
 

What is & where are Prototype rails? (The one Brock alluded to) Andy Carlson
of SO Cal


Covered Hopper Roof photo posted

tgmadden <tgmadden@...>
 

I've just uploaded a photo of the Bangor, PA yards of the DL&W taken on
Columbus Day 1961. It's at http://home.att.net/~tgmadden/Bangor2.JPG Like
the NYC tank car - box car - Pullman photo, this is a big one at just over 1
Meg, so you can see the details.

It was taken from a bridge at the South end of the facility, and in the
lower left foreground there is a string of covered hoppers. The first one
has a metal running board, and the second has wood. Sorry I don't have road
name or number info on those cars. There are a couple of DL&W cabooses also
in the shot, an LV box car, and along the upper left edge a couple of gons
with cement containers. The bridge from where I took the photo is still
there, but everything else with the exception of a few foundations is long
gone.

I used Ektachrome in an Argus C-44, and the color balance, which had shifted
considerably toward red, was restored somewhat in PhotoShop. I'll keep
rummaging through my late '50s - early '60s photos to see what I find. At
the time I used my Nikon F for B&W and the Argus for color slides.

Tom Madden

tgmadden@...


Re: AC&F covered hoppers

billd@...
 

Speaking of helium cars, somewhere or other around the house
I've got several shots of the real helium cars on SP's
EPTUD/TUEPD. They always ran in pairs, had clasp brakes on
their heavy-duty trucks (for something as light as helium,
those cars were rather heavy) and went back and forth
between the coast and (I guess) New Mexico where I am told
there are helium mines...just don't ask me how you mine
helium. Outcropping as Helium PentaFlouride?

Bill Daniels

On Thu, 3 May 2001 14:48:29 -0700 (PDT)
Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...> wrote:
On May 3, 5:23pm, byronrose@... wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] AC&F covered hoppers

Whoa Bill, now you're violating rule number one: "It's
my layout and if
you don't like what I'm running, you're excused." I
just love pulling
Heinz "reefers" with the new Atlas Dash 8s I just
bought. I bet they'll
pull a 200 car train without breaking a sweat.

BS
Byron,

Per your reputation, I expected better from you. At
least have
the guts to pull a unit train of Heinz pickle cars,
instead of mere
reefers!

Perhaps if Richard Hendrickson ever comes to visit,
you'll let him
run his unit train of helium cars on your layout.

Regards,

-Jeff




--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer
jaley@...
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

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Re: AC&F covered hoppers

billd@...
 

True, true. Can't argue with you there.

Too bad the real PRR couldn't be running Dash-8's MUed with
a Q-2!

Bill Daniels

On Thu, 3 May 2001 17:23:48 -0400
byronrose@... wrote:


On Wed, 02 May 2001 17:59:02 -0700 <billd@...>
writes:
Oh, one more item, Dr Bruce...

If I recall correctly aren't GP-30's a wee bit new for
1944?

Thought so...

You really should try some of those Athearn Genesis
F-7's...they make the GP-30's look shabby (and they
were
built in the {late}1940's...)

Bill Daniels

Whoa Bill, now you're violating rule number one: "It's
my layout and if
you don't like what I'm running, you're excused." I just
love pulling
Heinz "reefers" with the new Atlas Dash 8s I just bought.
I bet they'll
pull a 200 car train without breaking a sweat.

BS

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Re: Gilbert HO reefer possibilities.

Richard Hendrickson
 

C'mon Richard, you know that by definition, you can't defame a lawyer.
You know that, Byron, and I know that - but do the lawyers know that?

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: AC&F covered hoppers

Guy Wilber
 


Roco depressed center flat

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Back in the mid-'80's, Roco offered a 50 foot depressed center flat with 6
wheel Buckeye trucks.
The closest I can find (in terms of basic length, 6 wheel trucks) is the PRR
F29 class, although I need to compare the model with the prototype photos.
But is anyone aware of what prototype the Roco might be? - John


Re: AC&F covered hoppers

Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

On May 3, 5:23pm, byronrose@... wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] AC&F covered hoppers

Whoa Bill, now you're violating rule number one: "It's my layout and if
you don't like what I'm running, you're excused." I just love pulling
Heinz "reefers" with the new Atlas Dash 8s I just bought. I bet they'll
pull a 200 car train without breaking a sweat.

BS
Byron,

Per your reputation, I expected better from you. At least have
the guts to pull a unit train of Heinz pickle cars, instead of mere
reefers!

Perhaps if Richard Hendrickson ever comes to visit, you'll let him
run his unit train of helium cars on your layout.

Regards,

-Jeff




--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@...
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

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