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Re: May 24th, 1918

Scott H. Haycock
 

I think this is a RIP track.  The NYC car, and the next one further on both appear to be missing a wheelset from the trucks nearest the camera. The fifth car down looks like a Flat car seriously overloaded! The wagon of sacked goods may be part of a load removed from a car in need of repair.

The NYC car's furthest truck appears to have an axle with the journal boxes on the axle, but either hasn't be bolted to the sideframe, or has just been unbolted. Look at the trucks on the cars on the right hand track to see how the journal boxes are bolted to the sideframes.

The wagons may be being used to move goods from B.O. cars to the cars on the right hand track.

Also note the piles of material on the ground . This track may have served as a clean-out track, as well.

Another interesting thing: Look at the bottom of the photo to see haw this area was paved with bricks, or stones.

Scott Haycock  

 




And what appears to be Fox trucks.  But what is that on the next car (NYC).  Appears to be a truck with one wheel between the cars.  Also it has one spring????????????

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS
Re: M&StL LT 70001 GATC "Dri-Flow" tank car

Gene Green <genegreen1942@...>
 

In the continuing saga of the "Dry-Flo" tank cars rebuilt into covered hopperish things, Roger and I are now assuming the lease ended in November 1939.  The lease began November 13, 1936.  The lease paperwork said the M&StL was taking two cars but all evidence, including ORER entries, suggests they only took one.  We think it was for hauling cement but more research is needed.  It is clear from the AFE that GATX 34000 became M&StL 70001.

Thanks to those who checked ORERs.  Thanks, too, for the correction from Dri-Flow to Dry-Flo.  The link submitted showed photos that also appeared in the 1937 CBCyc.

General American used the AAR mechanical designation LO while the M&StL, for whatever reason, used LT.

M&StL LO 70003 was the first of the M&StL's sand cars.  It was built by General American from a used ore car from the Copper Range RR in Michigan.  The Copper Range term was "rock car."  The next few sand cars built by General American from rock cars had the roof raised some to increase the capacity.  Nonetheless, M&StL 70003 was the prototype.

Roger Ward emailed General American using the email address found in a railroad car part guide published annually.  Roger used the 2016 issue.  No response from General American.

Roger Ward and Gene Green
Out in the Badlands of New Mexico
Re: more on asphalt cars

Clark Propst
 

Gee, no one reads Model Railroad Planning? I used that photo and a couple others to illustrate a point a few years ago. The reason Vern took that and another photo was because he was the agent there and the guy had fallen off the tank car earlier.
 
I would very much like to model one of those boiler/pump trailers. I don’t know where to even start looking for info...
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
Re: Photo help for M&STL hoppers

Clark Propst
 

I did a write up on M&StL hoppers and how to model them in The CNWHS “Modeler” online magazine. You’ll have to go to their site...I don’t recall much about them...Not a hopper guy...
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
Re: more on asphalt cars (Unloading Road Tar)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Tom Birkett of Bartlesvill, OK, provided some insight on how this commodity was unloaded from tank cars, such as pictured in the earlier post.

 

So if you are going to model the scene you now have a basis for the details.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

+++++

 

Bob

 

Except in the very hot portion of the summer, steam heat will be required. Many tank car products are unloaded with air which is more readily available than a pump that can handle hot asphalt.

 

Hook up a steam hose to the connection on the bottom of the car (sometimes the connections are on the ends of the cars), hook up a hose to the bottom outlet of the loaded car, hook up an air hose to the Vapor space at the top of the car (not much pressure required)

 

 Open the valves and if the stuff is hot enough to liquefy, it will unload easily.

 

I managed the Phillips Petroleum fleet for about 20 years and although we didn't move asphalt by rail, we moved a LOT of sulphur and it works the same, but they both smell bad!
October ops session on the Alma branch

Jared Harper
 

I am planning an ops session in October on the Santa Fe's Alma branch.  There are four possibilities--Saturday, October 29; Sunday, October 9; Sunday, October 16; and Sunday, October 30.  As usual lunch will be served at noon, with operations beginning soon thereafter.

Jared Harper'
420 Woodward Way
Athens, GA 30606
706-543-8821
Re: more on asphalt cars (Unloading Road Tar)

Peter Hall
 

Tony,

I think it’s possible that the hose “connected” to the top of the tank car may be an illusion.  Since there is a grain elevator behind the car, it’s possible the “hose” is actually a line to the rooftop of the elevator, and just appears to connect to the car due to the angle of the photographer and the single eye of the lens, which gives no stereoscopic vision.

Thanks
Pete





On Sep 16, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Bob Chaparro wrote:

 
Could someone explain the flow of material from the tank car to the tank truck?

I see a hose on the top of the tank car and another on the bottom. This picture is a little too fuzzy to make out what is being done by what appears to be a mobile pump.


   Good question, Bob, and I wondered the same thing. The tank car isn't insulated, meaning that either it has built-in steam coils or some other method must be used to liquidize the asphalt/tar. Could the line into the dome manway be a steam line, to an immersion coil? These were used elsewhere for such a purpose. I agree with Bob also that it is too bad we can't see more clearly what the mobile "pump" or whatever it is is doing, but it might have a small boiler or hot-water heater to feed a coil.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: May 24th, 1918

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 9/16/2016 11:21 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:
lol - just scan a little to the left of the door in your photo

And what appears to be Fox trucks.  But what is that on the next car (NYC).  Appears to be a truck with one wheel between the cars.  Also it has one spring????????????

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS
Re: more on asphalt cars (Unloading Road Tar)

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

 
Could someone explain the flow of material from the tank car to the tank truck?

I see a hose on the top of the tank car and another on the bottom. This picture is a little too fuzzy to make out what is being done by what appears to be a mobile pump.


   Good question, Bob, and I wondered the same thing. The tank car isn't insulated, meaning that either it has built-in steam coils or some other method must be used to liquidize the asphalt/tar. Could the line into the dome manway be a steam line, to an immersion coil? These were used elsewhere for such a purpose. I agree with Bob also that it is too bad we can't see more clearly what the mobile "pump" or whatever it is is doing, but it might have a small boiler or hot-water heater to feed a coil.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: more on asphalt cars (Unloading Road Tar)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Could someone explain the flow of material from the tank car to the tank truck?


I see a hose on the top of the tank car and another on the bottom. This picture is a little too fuzzy to make out what is being done by what appears to be a mobile pump.


Thanks.


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA
Re: May 24th, 1918

Tim O'Connor
 


lol - just scan a little to the left of the door in your photo

Tim O'


http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-15-16/X0970.jpg
 
Before you look, what does StJ&GI stand for??  J
 
Schuyler
Re: more on asphalt cars

Tony Thompson
 

Jeff Shultz wrote:

 
While I thought that the difference is that asphalt is a tar/aggregate compound, apparently they come from different sources:

     The asphalt/aggregate compound used for paving is called "asphalt concrete" in the trade. The asphalt binder may be quite variable depending on the source, and sometimes is similar to "road tar" or "road oil," sometimes much different. Road oil is sometimes the term used for oil sprayed to keep down dust on dirt and gravel roads, but I have seen it used to mean the binder in asphalt concrete. Obviously as modelers we don't need to know the exact terminology, but do need to know how the material was handled.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Re: USRA hoppers for Westmoreland - was Photo help for M&STL hoppers

SUVCWORR@...
 

The company still exists for their website and corporate history see

http://westmoreland.com/about-us/our-timeline/

There is on very small photo with hoppers in it.

Since this line was affiliated with the PRR most of the cars were built by the PRR and follow PRR designs -   GG Gla  GLaC etc.  AFAIK they never had any GLD (USRA) class hoppers.

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Claus Schlund HGM' claus@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Sep 16, 2016 1:01 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] USRA hoppers for Westmoreland - was Photo help for M&STL hoppers



Hi Lester and List Members,
 
Lester wrote "The small data sheet states the hoppers were acquired from Westmoreland Coal Company via Hyman- Michaels"
 
I have two questions:
 
(1) Does anyone know, did Westmoreland own any USRA hoppers (or copies)? If so, does anyone know of any references (online or offline) to images of these?
 
(2) Does anyone know of any published articles or other information regarding Westmoreland Coal and Coke and their railroad operations in general? I've seen more than one such article on Berwind, but have seen nothing that I can recall regarding Westmoreland...
 
Thanks
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 7:48 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Photo help for M&STL hoppers

The current project is the upgrade of six Athearn and Accurail open top hoppers, four MILWAUKEE, one SOO LINE and two MINNEAPOLIS & ST LOUIS, to what I call the "Kadee Standard." The upgrade which includes wire grabs, brake wheel, retainer valve and line, train line, etc., I was able to complete the MILWAUKEE and SOO LINE hoppers as I was able to find photos to complete; however, I have had no success finding a photo for the M&STL hoppers.  The M&STL hoppers are USRA 5th Ave Car Shops plastic kits painted, lettered and numbered correctly 65243 and 65287 for series 65001 to 65355, odd only, delivered in 1943. The small data sheet states the hoppers were acquired from Westmoreland Coal Company via Hyman- Michaels.  The best photo I could find was on RR Picture Archieves of hopper 63537  which is similar in design; however, I can not be sure if same hand brake, retainer valve location, and uncoupling lever type remained the same for the 65001 to 65355 series. So photo help needed.   BTW the photo I found can be viewed at 
Thank you for your time and effort to help in advance.   Lester Breuer
Re: more on asphalt cars

Jeff Shultz <jeff@...>
 

While I thought that the difference is that asphalt is a tar/aggregate compound, apparently they come from different sources:


On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:24 AM, 'Claus Schlund HGM' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Hi List Members,

I came across this image described as "UTLX 56816 unloading Road Tar (Mid 1950's) "

http://vernwigfield.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=404420

I don't know the subtlety of difference between tar and asphalt, but there may be sufficient similarity to make this on topic.

Looks to be a scene illustrating unloading the car into a tanker truck.

Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: "Era Freight Car List Steam" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 6:21 PM
Subject: [STMFC] more on asphalt cars

>I have written a second post on asphalt tank cars, including additional model views. If you're interested, it can be found at this
>link:
>
> http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2016/09/asphalt-tank-cars-part-2.html
>
> Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
> 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
> (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
> Publishers of books on railroad history
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
 > ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
 > ------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>




--
Jeff Shultz
Error: Pithy Saying Generator not installed
Reflecting mid-1920s freight car lettering

Eric Hansmann
 

Two HO scale freight car decal jobs wrapped up this week to move a Reading XMp box car and a PRR GS gondola further along. A summary of both projects has been posted to the DesignBuildOp blog.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2016/09/16/more-decal-work/

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX
Re: USRA hoppers for Westmoreland - was Photo help for M&STL hoppers

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 


Hi Lester and List Members,
 
Lester wrote "The small data sheet states the hoppers were acquired from Westmoreland Coal Company via Hyman- Michaels"
 
I have two questions:
 
(1) Does anyone know, did Westmoreland own any USRA hoppers (or copies)? If so, does anyone know of any references (online or offline) to images of these?
 
(2) Does anyone know of any published articles or other information regarding Westmoreland Coal and Coke and their railroad operations in general? I've seen more than one such article on Berwind, but have seen nothing that I can recall regarding Westmoreland...
 
Thanks
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 7:48 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Photo help for M&STL hoppers

The current project is the upgrade of six Athearn and Accurail open top hoppers, four MILWAUKEE, one SOO LINE and two MINNEAPOLIS & ST LOUIS, to what I call the "Kadee Standard." The upgrade which includes wire grabs, brake wheel, retainer valve and line, train line, etc., I was able to complete the MILWAUKEE and SOO LINE hoppers as I was able to find photos to complete; however, I have had no success finding a photo for the M&STL hoppers.  The M&STL hoppers are USRA 5th Ave Car Shops plastic kits painted, lettered and numbered correctly 65243 and 65287 for series 65001 to 65355, odd only, delivered in 1943. The small data sheet states the hoppers were acquired from Westmoreland Coal Company via Hyman- Michaels.  The best photo I could find was on RR Picture Archieves of hopper 63537  which is similar in design; however, I can not be sure if same hand brake, retainer valve location, and uncoupling lever type remained the same for the 65001 to 65355 series. So photo help needed.   BTW the photo I found can be viewed at 
Thank you for your time and effort to help in advance.   Lester Breuer
Re: more on asphalt cars

mwbauers
 

Asphalt is tar with crushed stones embedded in it. I don’t think its at all common to ship a tank car with a load of tar bonded stone…...

The cars contain tar destined to become asphalt once its mixed for the application at the road project.

I’m betting that calling the contents asphalt is just common slang for the load.

Best to ya,
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi

On Sep 16, 2016, at 11:24 AM, 'Claus Schlund HGM'  wrote:

I don't know the subtlety of difference between tar and asphalt, but there may be sufficient similarity to make this on topic.

Looks to be a scene illustrating unloading the car into a tanker truck.
Re: more on asphalt cars

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 

Hi List Members,

I came across this image described as "UTLX 56816 unloading Road Tar (Mid 1950's) "

http://vernwigfield.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=404420

I don't know the subtlety of difference between tar and asphalt, but there may be sufficient similarity to make this on topic.

Looks to be a scene illustrating unloading the car into a tanker truck.

Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: "Era Freight Car List Steam" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 6:21 PM
Subject: [STMFC] more on asphalt cars


I have written a second post on asphalt tank cars, including additional model views. If you're interested, it can be found at this link:

http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2016/09/asphalt-tank-cars-part-2.html

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







------------------------------------
Posted by: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links
Re: Photo help for M&STL hoppers

Ed Hawkins
 


On Sep 16, 2016, at 9:48 AM, frograbbit602@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

The current project is the upgrade of six Athearn and Accurail open top hoppers, four MILWAUKEE, one SOO LINE and two MINNEAPOLIS & ST LOUIS, to what I call the "Kadee Standard." The upgrade which includes wire grabs, brake wheel, retainer valve and line, train line, etc., I was able to complete the MILWAUKEE and SOO LINE hoppers as I was able to find photos to complete; however, I have had no success finding a photo for the M&STL hoppers.  The M&STL hoppers are USRA 5th Ave Car Shops plastic kits painted, lettered and numbered correctly 65243 and 65287 for series 65001 to 65355, odd only, delivered in 1943. The small data sheet states the hoppers were acquired from Westmoreland Coal Company via Hyman- Michaels.  The best photo I could find was on RR Picture Archieves of hopper 63537  which is similar in design; however, I can not be sure if same hand brake, retainer valve location, and uncoupling lever type remained the same for the 65001 to 65355 series. So photo help needed.   BTW the photo I found can be viewed at 

Thank you for your time and effort to help in advance.   Lester Breuer

Lester,
The 1956 M&StL freight car diagrams denote that 65001-65355 (odd) were built by Pressed Steel Car Co. in 1920-1921. It also specifies that at the time 12 cars remained in service. The diagram further states the hand brake as “A.A.R. Std.” and trucks as “Bettendorf.” From the photo described below, the trucks are an A.R.A./A.A.R. integral-journal design with spring planks. Wheels appear to be steel. 

Regarding photos, I have one of M&StL 65327 purchased many years ago from Jay Williams. This photo shows a build date of 3-21, HEG. 7-43 reweigh, and HEG. 7-10-43 repack by “HMC” for the Hyman-Michaels Co. The paint & stencils are fresh, so the photo date would have likely been soon after July10, 1943. The photo showing the right side of the car is a 3/4-A end view such that the hand brake and retainer line are not visible. 

Perhaps resident M&StL historians Gene Green and Clark Propst may have additional information and/or photos.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins
Re: Photo help for M&STL hoppers

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 


Hi Lester and List Members,
 
Lester wrote:
 
 

It looks to me like this car had just been repainted prior to being photographed, and one can make out some of the old lettering as a ghost image. At a minimum, the word "CHICAGO" is clearly visible.
 
Anyone have any thoughts on who the previous owner was?
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 7:48 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Photo help for M&STL hoppers

The current project is the upgrade of six Athearn and Accurail open top hoppers, four MILWAUKEE, one SOO LINE and two MINNEAPOLIS & ST LOUIS, to what I call the "Kadee Standard." The upgrade which includes wire grabs, brake wheel, retainer valve and line, train line, etc., I was able to complete the MILWAUKEE and SOO LINE hoppers as I was able to find photos to complete; however, I have had no success finding a photo for the M&STL hoppers.  The M&STL hoppers are USRA 5th Ave Car Shops plastic kits painted, lettered and numbered correctly 65243 and 65287 for series 65001 to 65355, odd only, delivered in 1943. The small data sheet states the hoppers were acquired from Westmoreland Coal Company via Hyman- Michaels.  The best photo I could find was on RR Picture Archieves of hopper 63537  which is similar in design; however, I can not be sure if same hand brake, retainer valve location, and uncoupling lever type remained the same for the 65001 to 65355 series. So photo help needed.   BTW the photo I found can be viewed at 
Thank you for your time and effort to help in advance.   Lester Breuer
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