Date   

May 24th, 1918, continued

Schuyler Larrabee
 


Re: Photo help for M&STL hoppers

Douglas Harding
 

Les, and others, below is the contents of a message Gene Green posted to the MSTL group regarding the 63000 hoppers. The 63000 cars were different than the 65000 cars. The only photo I have of a 63000 hopper is of #63537, which clearly shows the word Chicago under the new paint. The 63000 cars were built in 1920-1922. Most likely they are USRA clones. The 5th Ave Car Shops model you have is based on a USRA hopper car, which is not 100% accurate for a USRA car. Which might account for some of the differences you noticed.

 

I have two photos of 65000 hoppers, 65091 and 65327. Only the 65091 photo shows the brake wheel end. It has a vertical brake wheel and the retaining valve is just below the rim of the end and located in almost the center. 65327 has a Carmer uncoupling lever, 65091 does not.

 

Hope this helps. I have additional info on other M&StL hoppers, most courtesy of both Gene and Clark.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

Here's more than you ever wanted to know about the M&StL's used, open-top,

two-bay hoppers acquired in 1941 and numbered 63001 through 63579.

 

numbers ranged from CBPX, as has been stated by others, stands for Chicago By-Products which was

formerly Peoples Gas By-Products of Chicago (PGBX).

 

There were originally 290 cars total and their original CBPX

100 through 837 with lots of missing numbers. All the cars were delivered to

the M&StL at Peoria. The Alton delivered 102 cars, Rock Island delivered 39,

and Illinois Central 99. The first car was delivered June 11, 1941, the last

July 6, 1941.

 

The AFE offered no clue as to the builder although dates built ranged from

January 1920 through May 1921. All except four cars were built in November and

December 1920 and January and February 1921.

 

These cars were retired by the M&StL mostly in 1948 through 1952. M&StL hopper

63375 lasted until January 1961 when it was retired and subsequently sold to M.

S. Kaplan Co. August 10, 1961.

 

Four were lost to wrecks as follows:

63011 on the M&StL at Searsboro September 21, 1945

63201 on the Illinois Terminal November 20, 1948

63319 on the Illinois Central in February 1947

63463 on the ERIE April 27, 1948

 

Aside for the 4 wrecked cars and the one sold to Kaplan, all the rest were sold

to the Purdy Co.

 

One train of 103 of these cars were in a single train from Marshalltown on

January 30, 1953 to Peoria from where the GM&O took them to Burnham, Illinois

and handed them over to the Indiana Harbor Belt for delivery to Purdy. Of these

103 cars only 8 numbers are known; 63017, 63073, 63127, 63343, 63363, 63373,

63425 and 63453.

 

The AFEs do not tell us what happened to most of these cars after delivery to

Purdy but some dispositions are known.

 

Eighteen cars were renumbered PCX (Purdy's reporting marks) 6301 through 6318

inclusive. Of these, 6301 through 6309 were subsequently renumbered WICO 2125

through 2133 (6309 became 2125, 6308 2126, etc.) for Woodward Iron Co.,

Woodward, Alabama.

 

The remaining cars known to be renumbered PCX were also in the 6300 series.

 

None of the applicable AFEs had any clue as to builder, type of trucks, brake

system, hand brake or any of that neat stuff a modeler would like to know.

 

Three of the cars were reweighed at Minneapolis (MPLS) 7-41 as follows:

63547's new weight was 37900 lbs.

63531 was 38600 lbs.

63539 was 39000 lbs.

 

M&StL 63375 was reweighed at some unknown location in February 1958 and found to

weigh 37700 lbs.

 

That's all, Folks.

 

Gene Green

 


Re: May 24th, 1918

brianleppert@att.net
 

Those are not Fox trucks under the StJ&GI boxcar.  They look to be Cloud Pedestal trucks.  I have just uploaded a 1904 magazine ad to our Files section showing Cloud and Kindle trucks.

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV
Freight Car Trucks For the Prototype Modeler


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.


File : /Kindl and Cloud Trucks.jpg
Uploaded by : brianleppert@... <brianleppert@...>
Description : Ad from June 23, 1904 The Daily Railway Age magazine


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/STMFC/files/Kindl%20and%20Cloud%20Trucks.jpg


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398


Regards,


brianleppert@... <brianleppert@...>


Re: Reflecting mid-1920s freight car lettering

riverman_vt@...
 

Hi Eric,

     What do you do about the fact that with one look at iyour Reading boxcar it is
easy to see that two different sets of lettering were used, that from F&C being
considerably more "white". Will careful weathering conceal such differences?
Since Athearn "Blue Box" days I have used a sharp knife blade and a fine tipped 
brush with the appropriate color of paint to change the digits in car numbers 
when more than one of the same car was desired. In this case there was so
little that was changed it was easy to conceal. I wonder about that with about
half the lettering coming from one source and the other half from another and
one appearing to be so much brighter than the other. The cars are a great
addition to any fleet if that issue can be overcome.

Cordially, Don Valentine


    


Re: May 24th, 1918

Eric Hansmann
 

The location is the Harlem Transfer in the Bronx. You can see the sign above the transfer crane in this image that was posted today.

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-16-16/X0972.jpg

 

Here’s an image looking in the same direction as yesterday’s image.

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-16-16/X0971.jpg

 

And here’s another image looking back toward the transfer crane.

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-16-16/X0973.jpg

 

These were all posted today.

 

The piles of material seem to be road apples from the team power. The pavement is cobblestone.

 

Here’s a page of details on the operation.

http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/ht.html

 

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 4:40 PM
To: Steam Era Freight Cars
Subject: Re: [STMFC] May 24th, 1918

 




I think this is a RIP track.  The NYC car, and the next one further on both appear to be missing a wheelset from the trucks nearest the camera. The fifth car down looks like a Flat car seriously overloaded! The wagon of sacked goods may be part of a load removed from a car in need of repair.

 

The NYC car's furthest truck appears to have an axle with the journal boxes on the axle, but either hasn't be bolted to the sideframe, or has just been unbolted. Look at the trucks on the cars on the right hand track to see how the journal boxes are bolted to the sideframes.

 

The wagons may be being used to move goods from B.O. cars to the cars on the right hand track.

 

Also note the piles of material on the ground . This track may have served as a clean-out track, as well.

 

Another interesting thing: Look at the bottom of the photo to see haw this area was paved with bricks, or stones.

 

Scott Haycock  

 


 

 

 

 

And what appears to be Fox trucks.  But what is that on the next car (NYC).  Appears to be a truck with one wheel between the cars.  Also it has one spring????????????

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

 

 



Re: May 24th, 1918

Scott H. Haycock
 

I think this is a RIP track.  The NYC car, and the next one further on both appear to be missing a wheelset from the trucks nearest the camera. The fifth car down looks like a Flat car seriously overloaded! The wagon of sacked goods may be part of a load removed from a car in need of repair.

The NYC car's furthest truck appears to have an axle with the journal boxes on the axle, but either hasn't be bolted to the sideframe, or has just been unbolted. Look at the trucks on the cars on the right hand track to see how the journal boxes are bolted to the sideframes.

The wagons may be being used to move goods from B.O. cars to the cars on the right hand track.

Also note the piles of material on the ground . This track may have served as a clean-out track, as well.

Another interesting thing: Look at the bottom of the photo to see haw this area was paved with bricks, or stones.

Scott Haycock  


 




And what appears to be Fox trucks.  But what is that on the next car (NYC).  Appears to be a truck with one wheel between the cars.  Also it has one spring????????????

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS




Re: M&StL LT 70001 GATC "Dri-Flow" tank car

Gene Green <genegreen1942@...>
 

In the continuing saga of the "Dry-Flo" tank cars rebuilt into covered hopperish things, Roger and I are now assuming the lease ended in November 1939.  The lease began November 13, 1936.  The lease paperwork said the M&StL was taking two cars but all evidence, including ORER entries, suggests they only took one.  We think it was for hauling cement but more research is needed.  It is clear from the AFE that GATX 34000 became M&StL 70001.

Thanks to those who checked ORERs.  Thanks, too, for the correction from Dri-Flow to Dry-Flo.  The link submitted showed photos that also appeared in the 1937 CBCyc.

General American used the AAR mechanical designation LO while the M&StL, for whatever reason, used LT.

M&StL LO 70003 was the first of the M&StL's sand cars.  It was built by General American from a used ore car from the Copper Range RR in Michigan.  The Copper Range term was "rock car."  The next few sand cars built by General American from rock cars had the roof raised some to increase the capacity.  Nonetheless, M&StL 70003 was the prototype.

Roger Ward emailed General American using the email address found in a railroad car part guide published annually.  Roger used the 2016 issue.  No response from General American.

Roger Ward and Gene Green
Out in the Badlands of New Mexico


Re: more on asphalt cars

Clark Propst
 

Gee, no one reads Model Railroad Planning? I used that photo and a couple others to illustrate a point a few years ago. The reason Vern took that and another photo was because he was the agent there and the guy had fallen off the tank car earlier.
 
I would very much like to model one of those boiler/pump trailers. I don’t know where to even start looking for info...
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Photo help for M&STL hoppers

Clark Propst
 

I did a write up on M&StL hoppers and how to model them in The CNWHS “Modeler” online magazine. You’ll have to go to their site...I don’t recall much about them...Not a hopper guy...
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: more on asphalt cars (Unloading Road Tar)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Tom Birkett of Bartlesvill, OK, provided some insight on how this commodity was unloaded from tank cars, such as pictured in the earlier post.

 

So if you are going to model the scene you now have a basis for the details.

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

+++++

 

Bob

 

Except in the very hot portion of the summer, steam heat will be required. Many tank car products are unloaded with air which is more readily available than a pump that can handle hot asphalt.

 

Hook up a steam hose to the connection on the bottom of the car (sometimes the connections are on the ends of the cars), hook up a hose to the bottom outlet of the loaded car, hook up an air hose to the Vapor space at the top of the car (not much pressure required)

 

 Open the valves and if the stuff is hot enough to liquefy, it will unload easily.

 

I managed the Phillips Petroleum fleet for about 20 years and although we didn't move asphalt by rail, we moved a LOT of sulphur and it works the same, but they both smell bad!


October ops session on the Alma branch

Jared Harper
 

I am planning an ops session in October on the Santa Fe's Alma branch.  There are four possibilities--Saturday, October 29; Sunday, October 9; Sunday, October 16; and Sunday, October 30.  As usual lunch will be served at noon, with operations beginning soon thereafter.

Jared Harper'
420 Woodward Way
Athens, GA 30606
706-543-8821


Re: more on asphalt cars (Unloading Road Tar)

Peter Hall
 

Tony,

I think it’s possible that the hose “connected” to the top of the tank car may be an illusion.  Since there is a grain elevator behind the car, it’s possible the “hose” is actually a line to the rooftop of the elevator, and just appears to connect to the car due to the angle of the photographer and the single eye of the lens, which gives no stereoscopic vision.

Thanks
Pete





On Sep 16, 2016, at 2:36 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Bob Chaparro wrote:

 
Could someone explain the flow of material from the tank car to the tank truck?

I see a hose on the top of the tank car and another on the bottom. This picture is a little too fuzzy to make out what is being done by what appears to be a mobile pump.


   Good question, Bob, and I wondered the same thing. The tank car isn't insulated, meaning that either it has built-in steam coils or some other method must be used to liquidize the asphalt/tar. Could the line into the dome manway be a steam line, to an immersion coil? These were used elsewhere for such a purpose. I agree with Bob also that it is too bad we can't see more clearly what the mobile "pump" or whatever it is is doing, but it might have a small boiler or hot-water heater to feed a coil.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history








Re: May 24th, 1918

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 9/16/2016 11:21 AM, Tim O'Connor timboconnor@... [STMFC] wrote:


lol - just scan a little to the left of the door in your photo

And what appears to be Fox trucks.  But what is that on the next car (NYC).  Appears to be a truck with one wheel between the cars.  Also it has one spring????????????

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: more on asphalt cars (Unloading Road Tar)

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

 
Could someone explain the flow of material from the tank car to the tank truck?

I see a hose on the top of the tank car and another on the bottom. This picture is a little too fuzzy to make out what is being done by what appears to be a mobile pump.


   Good question, Bob, and I wondered the same thing. The tank car isn't insulated, meaning that either it has built-in steam coils or some other method must be used to liquidize the asphalt/tar. Could the line into the dome manway be a steam line, to an immersion coil? These were used elsewhere for such a purpose. I agree with Bob also that it is too bad we can't see more clearly what the mobile "pump" or whatever it is is doing, but it might have a small boiler or hot-water heater to feed a coil.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: more on asphalt cars (Unloading Road Tar)

thecitrusbelt@...
 

Could someone explain the flow of material from the tank car to the tank truck?


I see a hose on the top of the tank car and another on the bottom. This picture is a little too fuzzy to make out what is being done by what appears to be a mobile pump.


Thanks.


Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: May 24th, 1918

Tim O'Connor
 


lol - just scan a little to the left of the door in your photo

Tim O'


http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-09-15-16/X0970.jpg
 
Before you look, what does StJ&GI stand for??  J
 
Schuyler


Re: more on asphalt cars

Tony Thompson
 

Jeff Shultz wrote:

 
While I thought that the difference is that asphalt is a tar/aggregate compound, apparently they come from different sources:

     The asphalt/aggregate compound used for paving is called "asphalt concrete" in the trade. The asphalt binder may be quite variable depending on the source, and sometimes is similar to "road tar" or "road oil," sometimes much different. Road oil is sometimes the term used for oil sprayed to keep down dust on dirt and gravel roads, but I have seen it used to mean the binder in asphalt concrete. Obviously as modelers we don't need to know the exact terminology, but do need to know how the material was handled.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: USRA hoppers for Westmoreland - was Photo help for M&STL hoppers

SUVCWORR@...
 

The company still exists for their website and corporate history see

http://westmoreland.com/about-us/our-timeline/

There is on very small photo with hoppers in it.

Since this line was affiliated with the PRR most of the cars were built by the PRR and follow PRR designs -   GG Gla  GLaC etc.  AFAIK they never had any GLD (USRA) class hoppers.

Rich Orr


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Claus Schlund HGM' claus@... [STMFC]
To: STMFC
Sent: Fri, Sep 16, 2016 1:01 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] USRA hoppers for Westmoreland - was Photo help for M&STL hoppers



Hi Lester and List Members,
 
Lester wrote "The small data sheet states the hoppers were acquired from Westmoreland Coal Company via Hyman- Michaels"
 
I have two questions:
 
(1) Does anyone know, did Westmoreland own any USRA hoppers (or copies)? If so, does anyone know of any references (online or offline) to images of these?
 
(2) Does anyone know of any published articles or other information regarding Westmoreland Coal and Coke and their railroad operations in general? I've seen more than one such article on Berwind, but have seen nothing that I can recall regarding Westmoreland...
 
Thanks
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 7:48 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Photo help for M&STL hoppers

The current project is the upgrade of six Athearn and Accurail open top hoppers, four MILWAUKEE, one SOO LINE and two MINNEAPOLIS & ST LOUIS, to what I call the "Kadee Standard." The upgrade which includes wire grabs, brake wheel, retainer valve and line, train line, etc., I was able to complete the MILWAUKEE and SOO LINE hoppers as I was able to find photos to complete; however, I have had no success finding a photo for the M&STL hoppers.  The M&STL hoppers are USRA 5th Ave Car Shops plastic kits painted, lettered and numbered correctly 65243 and 65287 for series 65001 to 65355, odd only, delivered in 1943. The small data sheet states the hoppers were acquired from Westmoreland Coal Company via Hyman- Michaels.  The best photo I could find was on RR Picture Archieves of hopper 63537  which is similar in design; however, I can not be sure if same hand brake, retainer valve location, and uncoupling lever type remained the same for the 65001 to 65355 series. So photo help needed.   BTW the photo I found can be viewed at 
Thank you for your time and effort to help in advance.   Lester Breuer








Re: more on asphalt cars

Jeff Shultz <jeff@...>
 

While I thought that the difference is that asphalt is a tar/aggregate compound, apparently they come from different sources:


On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:24 AM, 'Claus Schlund HGM' claus@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 

Hi List Members,

I came across this image described as "UTLX 56816 unloading Road Tar (Mid 1950's) "

http://vernwigfield.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=404420

I don't know the subtlety of difference between tar and asphalt, but there may be sufficient similarity to make this on topic.

Looks to be a scene illustrating unloading the car into a tanker truck.

Claus Schlund

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC]" <STMFC@...>
To: "Era Freight Car List Steam" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 6:21 PM
Subject: [STMFC] more on asphalt cars

>I have written a second post on asphalt tank cars, including additional model views. If you're interested, it can be found at this
>link:
>
> http://modelingthesp.blogspot.com/2016/09/asphalt-tank-cars-part-2.html
>
> Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
> 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
> (510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
> Publishers of books on railroad history
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups Links
>
>
>
>




--
Jeff Shultz
Error: Pithy Saying Generator not installed

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