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Re: KCS post-war rebuild

jdcellarmod@...
 

Hi all,


This is for series 15500-15599. I have the three modeling articles (RMC 3/09 & 4/09 & Mainline 4/92). Also have RP CYC #24. What I do not have is a picture of the ends. In the RPC photo you can see the bracket for the cut lever does drop below the side sill. In the model photos and drawing all you see is a flat end on the sill and an eyelet for the lever. Does anyone have additional information on the ends? Any and all info would be appreciated. Thank You


Jeff Drennan


Re: FGEX Reefer Loads To So. Calif.?

Tim O'Connor
 

Right, I was going to say apples and other crops from Washington,
Oregon, and crops from the Red River Valley North Dakota/Minnesota,
because of seasonal pooling of cars.

There are certainly photos of FGE reefers in California... so they
must have been carrying something. :-)

Don't forget brand name packaged meat products - Deli meats.

Tim O'Connor

First, those reefers can and were used for outbound loads. Infrequent perhaps, but it happened. Second, "our companies" pooled their reefers so inbound loads could be from BRE, WFE or FGE. So crops from the northwest, central west, midwest or east are all possible. Finally those cars could also be used for non-refrigerated "clean" loads.

Regards
Bruce Smith


Re: REA Green

John Sykes III
 

I pulled out my ScaleCoat II color guide and the Hunter Green #086 looks about right  (although the SC color guide is sort of lame - I usually make my own color patches).  Just don't have any on hand right now, but I need to put in a paint order soon anyway, so I will order some.

When Bob Weaver "manufactured" these paints I think he used Duco for ScaleCoat I and I know he used Dulux for ScaleCoat II.  I saw the 5 gallon cans with the DuPont logo on them.  He had a ledger book that had all the DuPont paint  codes from the actual railroads.  That was in 1980, when I was at Three Mile Island, 36 years ago.  Since Dupont no longer manufactures Duco or Dulux, I don't know what they are using for ScaleCoat paints.

-- John


Re: FGEX Reefer Loads To So. Calif.?

Bill Welch
 

Bob, I can only add a little to Bruce's comments. The FGE/WFE/BRE System had contracts with over 70 railroads that served 40 of the 48 states so inbound loads could originated from any of those states depending on the time of year. Our Companies did not serve Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, California, Arizona or Nevada. It is almost my bedtime and I cannot remember the other two but probably no Maine potatoes but maybe Florida or Long Island spuds. From New Jersey, Mass. or Conn. perhaps Cranberries or from the "Fruit Belt" of Michigan Cherries or Peaches from Georgia or South Carolina. Loaded on the L&N or NC&StL in West Tennessee could have come tomatoes or from Vadalia, Georgia loaded on the CoG would have been their famous onions.

Also SFRD had agreements with FGE for the use of their cars during particular "rushes" of crops. I am uncertain if they had such agreements with PFE.

Bill Welch


Re: REA Green

"markstation01@yahoo.com <markstation01@...>
 


Re: FGEX Reefer Loads To So. Calif.?

Bruce Smith
 

​Bob,


First, those reefers can and were used for outbound loads.  Infrequent perhaps, but it happened.  Second, "our companies" pooled their reefers so inbound loads could be from BRE, WFE or FGE.  So crops from the northwest, central west, midwest or east are all possible.  Finally those cars could also be used for non-refrigerated "clean" loads.


Regards

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL


From: STMFC@... on behalf of thecitrusbelt@... [STMFC]
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 8:18 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] FGEX Reefer Loads To So. Calif.?
 


I just received a gift of two Intermountain FGEX ice bunker reefers.

 

I model Southern California and the outbound PFE/SFRD reefer traffic, circa 1956. So what inbound loads could I reasonably expect to see coming in on FGEX reefers? Where would these loads originate?

 

Thanks

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA




Re: REA Green

John Sykes III
 

Just that I have been shooting Floquil, ScaleCoat I and ScaleCoat II for about 40 years now.  I have tried numerous acrylics with limited success.

I can clean up Floquil or either ScaleCoats with a few ml of lacquer thinner and a pipe cleaner and/or Q-tip.  Last time I used an acrylic, I had to completely strip down my airbrush and used about a pint of isopropyl alcohol to un-gunk it.

Also, any fingerprints or such (mold release) on the model and acrylics won't stick.  Solvent based paints will handle minor problems like that.  ScaleCoat I or II give you a finish that works perfect for decals and, if allowed to dry properly, will handle as much decal set as you can possible need to get decals over bumps and into grooves.  

-- John


FGEX Reefer Loads To So. Calif.?

thecitrusbelt@...
 

I just received a gift of two Intermountain FGEX ice bunker reefers.

 

I model Southern California and the outbound PFE/SFRD reefer traffic, circa 1956. So what inbound loads could I reasonably expect to see coming in on FGEX reefers? Where would these loads originate?

 

Thanks

 

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: REA Green

Tim O'Connor
 


? What's the problem ? Tamiya will shoot very nicely in your airbrush and
cleans up easily. And it dries glossy. Are you allergic to acrylic ? Not all
acrylics are alike, after all.

Paint & coatings terminology is a minefield of misinformation. I'd just try
it on some test item (I use old discarded blue box car bodies) and see how it
looks. It won't contaminate your workshop either.

Tim O'Connor



I'm building a Sylvan V-031 1948-53 Railway Express Agency delivery truck.  Sylvan recommends Tamiya Deep Green XF-26 for the paint.  I stopped at my LHS this evening and picked up a bottle, but noticed that it is an acrudlic (sic)!!!

Can anyone suggest a solvent-based color (lacquer or enamel) for REA green in the early to mid 1950's time frame?  I picked up a can of Tamiya TS-9 British Green, which looks close to REA green to me.  I am open for suggestions PLEASE!!!  I also have a can of Rust-Oleum Forest Green that I am tempted to try.  So any thing other than acrylics would be OK (Model Master, ScaleCoat II, etc.).

-- John


Re: REA Green

william darnaby
 

I have used Scalecoat Hunter Green for my REA express cars. YMMV, of course.



Bill Darnaby



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2016 7:23 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] REA Green








I'm building a Sylvan V-031 1948-53 Railway Express Agency delivery truck. Sylvan recommends Tamiya Deep Green XF-26 for the paint. I stopped at my LHS this evening and picked up a bottle, but noticed that it is an acrudlic (sic)!!!



Can anyone suggest a solvent-based color (lacquer or enamel) for REA green in the early to mid 1950's time frame? I picked up a can of Tamiya TS-9 British Green, which looks close to REA green to me. I am open for suggestions PLEASE!!! I also have a can of Rust-Oleum Forest Green that I am tempted to try. So any thing other than acrylics would be OK (Model Master, ScaleCoat II, etc.).



-- John


REA Green

John Sykes III
 

I'm building a Sylvan V-031 1948-53 Railway Express Agency delivery truck.  Sylvan recommends Tamiya Deep Green XF-26 for the paint.  I stopped at my LHS this evening and picked up a bottle, but noticed that it is an acrudlic (sic)!!!


Can anyone suggest a solvent-based color (lacquer or enamel) for REA green in the early to mid 1950's time frame?  I picked up a can of Tamiya TS-9 British Green, which looks close to REA green to me.  I am open for suggestions PLEASE!!!  I also have a can of Rust-Oleum Forest Green that I am tempted to try.  So any thing other than acrylics would be OK (Model Master, ScaleCoat II, etc.).


-- John


Re: Hooker Orange Tank car

Ed Hawkins
 


On Nov 22, 2016, at 1:29 AM, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:

Lots 9, 19, and 368 show the top portion of the heads painted orange and the bottom portion black. 

STMFC,
To correct a typo I made, this should have stated "Lots 9, 19, and 638…." 

Despite the shading of the top portion of the jacket in these three photos appearing fairly light, the stencils were white.  This is an indication to me that the color was probably not a light shade of orange but rather a deeper shade (i.e., a red-orange?) as Dennis alluded to. If the shade of orange was light, black stencils would have made more sense. 
Ed Hawkins


Re: Hooker Orange Tank car

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <atsfus@...> wrote :


On 11/22/2016 5:50 AM, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:

I would suspect the color they are describing is an orangey fire engine red,

Dennis,

   Would that be a color similar to the early ATSF E1 red/orange?  BLI thinks in terms of sales (don't blame them) so some discussion about the E1 colors was that many people might avoid buying because they thought the color might be wrong.  So on the Hookers is it possible they almost got it right but should have added more red?  All the early tinplate stuff is a bright orange and they may have followed that.  Not all the tinplate stuff was wrong! 

===============

Hey, I don't know anything about this, other than Ed Hawkins' info says "red" and the Lionel cars from the fifties are orange. Then again, the color could have changed in the intervening years, especially since Hooker didn't seem to own the "Pliolite" trademark. All I know is that if Piolite is anything like Pliobond, "Pliolite red" isn't the color of the coating, since Pliobond is pink... well, dark pink. So, the color being described is likely the color that was associated with the trademark, which has been consistently orange-red since the sixties at least.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Hooker Orange Tank car

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 11/22/2016 5:50 AM, destorzek@... [STMFC] wrote:

I would suspect the color they are describing is an orangey fire engine red,

Dennis,

   Would that be a color similar to the early ATSF E1 red/orange?  BLI thinks in terms of sales (don't blame them) so some discussion about the E1 colors was that many people might avoid buying because they thought the color might be wrong.  So on the Hookers is it possible they almost got it right but should have added more red?  All the early tinplate stuff is a bright orange and they may have followed that.  Not all the tinplate stuff was wrong! 

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: 3/7/7 indented ends

Tim O'Connor
 

Oddballs perhaps but popular photo subjects - I have 10 shots of B-7a box cars
including 4 A&D cars ! :-)

Tim O'

Thanks gentlemen. Interesting that the A&D surfaces as owner of another relative oddballs, eg the N&W B7a we discussed before.

Ben Scanlon
London, England


Re: Duryea underframe

Robert J Miller CFA
 

Thanks, Keith! 
I have that book and will check that out this evening.


On Nov 21, 2016, at 10:00 PM, ckjordan@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Bob and Others,


Drawings of the Rr-21 and its Duryea underframe are in the Santa Fe Ice Bunker Refrigerator Cars book, published by the Santa Fe Historical and Modeling Society.

Keith Jordan


Re: Hooker Orange Tank car

Dennis Storzek
 




---In STMFC@..., <rclist09@...> wrote :


In the first instances, it was filed by Goodyear Tire & Rubber in the exact time frame Ed Hawkins mentions.

Perhaps someone familiar with Goodyear paint and coating history can provide further details.
=======================

I would suspect that "Pliolite" is the base resin system in Goodyear Pliobond contact cement. If you google "Pliobond" you'll see that, while no longer manufactured by Goodyear, the packaging prominently features the same orange-red that I remember on the Goodyear cans.

As to U.T.L. red, anyone remember that at one time Union Tank Line used Standard Oil red for their cars? In 1933 that would have been in the working memory of the people writing the specifications. Old color names die hard, just like old RR names.

I would suspect the color they are describing is an orangey fire engine red, not the orange used by Lionel in the fifties on their Hooker cars.

Dennis Storzek


Re: 3/7/7 indented ends

Benjamin Scanlon
 

Thanks gentlemen.  Interesting that the A&D surfaces as owner of another relative oddballs, eg the N&W B7a we discussed before.

Ben Scanlon  
London, England


Re: Hooker Orange Tank car

Rufus Cone
 

This search gives five links to the history of the trademark Pliolite.
http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4805%3Aykmwn.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=&p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA1%24LD&expr=PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=pliolite&p_tagrepl%7E%3A=PARA2%24COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=Submit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query

In the first instances, it was filed by Goodyear Tire & Rubber in the exact time frame Ed Hawkins mentions.

Perhaps someone familiar with Goodyear paint and coating history can provide further details.

According to this related search, the trademark Pliolite was first used 11/22/1932.�
http://www.trademarkia.com/pliolite-71358245.html

From other searches, the trademark Pliolite appears to cover a variety of resin-based coatings including some used on metal.

Rufus Cone
Bozeman, MT

On 11/22/2016 12:29 AM, Ed Hawkins hawk0621@... [STMFC] wrote:
�


On Nov 21, 2016, at 3:08 PM, Paul Catapano pc66ot@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Can anyone tell me when the Hooker Chemical Co. began painting their tank cars Orange?

Paul,
I can verify with ACF paint specifications that �orange� was used on HOKX tank cars dating back to at least July 1933 (ACF lot no. 1291), except that the paint color was specified as "U.T.L. Red� or �Pliolite Red.� I�m not sure what U.T.L. stood for, but �Pliolite� was a paint formulation name. "U.T.L. Red" was applied on two orders for 3 tank cars built in 1933-1934. HOKX tank cars built by ACF from 1936 through 1941 used Pliolite Red. Despite the �Red� paint color, I�m reasonably sure it was actually orange, but if anyone can prove otherwise I�m glad to recant this assumption.

Even earlier than 1933, several ACF builder photos show the likelihood of orange and black 3,000 gal. chlorine tank cars built in 1926-1927 and one order of 6,000 gal. chlorine tank cars built in 1928, however, these cars predate the ACF paint specifications that start in 1931. Some of these photos can be seen on the Barriger National Railroad Library web site via flikr at:


This site was originally posted by Mark Hemphill on Jan. 8, 2016, and the number of photos has grown since then. Photos of these 1920s Hooker tank cars can be found under lot numbers 9, 19, 60, 66, 366, and 638. ACF built 40 additional 3,000 A.R.A. Class V tank cars (HOKX 301-340) in 1923-1924, however, I have not seen photos of them. Perhaps they are in the Barriger Library Collection.

Some of these 1920s photos can easily be misinterpreted regarding how the cars were painted, which occurred with the original BLI catalogue. This may have been because of the type of film used in which the �orange� and black tended to show little contrast between the two colors. Close inspection reveals the center band was black with the balance of the top portion of the jacket likely being orange (i.e., U.T.L. Red). Lots 9, 19, and 368 show the top portion of the heads painted orange and the bottom portion black. For lots 60, 66, and 366 it�s difficult to tell due to the color contrast.

For the later HOKX cars built starting in 1933, except for the black center band, the orange was used on the top portion of the tank (or jacket, if insulated) and the heads. The balance of the tank or jacket was black as well as the underframe & trucks.�

Four orders totaling 13 cars built in 1934-1936 (615, 618-619, 626-629, 638-643), 6,000 gal., ICC-105A, chlorine tank cars received aluminum stencils while ICC-103B/103BW acid tank cars built from 1937 through 1941 all in the 216-226 series had white stencils. An ACF builder photo of HOKX 219 built 12-39 is shown on the first page of the Barriger site.

Other Hooker Tank cars built by ACF were similarly painted in 1950 and later based on photographs, however, ACF paint specs for these cars are not available.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



Posted by: Ed Hawkins


Re: Hooker Orange Tank car

Ed Hawkins
 


On Nov 21, 2016, at 3:08 PM, Paul Catapano pc66ot@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

Can anyone tell me when the Hooker Chemical Co. began painting their tank cars Orange?

Paul,
I can verify with ACF paint specifications that “orange” was used on HOKX tank cars dating back to at least July 1933 (ACF lot no. 1291), except that the paint color was specified as "U.T.L. Red” or “Pliolite Red.” I’m not sure what U.T.L. stood for, but “Pliolite” was a paint formulation name. "U.T.L. Red" was applied on two orders for 3 tank cars built in 1933-1934. HOKX tank cars built by ACF from 1936 through 1941 used Pliolite Red. Despite the “Red” paint color, I’m reasonably sure it was actually orange, but if anyone can prove otherwise I’m glad to recant this assumption.

Even earlier than 1933, several ACF builder photos show the likelihood of orange and black 3,000 gal. chlorine tank cars built in 1926-1927 and one order of 6,000 gal. chlorine tank cars built in 1928, however, these cars predate the ACF paint specifications that start in 1931. Some of these photos can be seen on the Barriger National Railroad Library web site via flikr at:


This site was originally posted by Mark Hemphill on Jan. 8, 2016, and the number of photos has grown since then. Photos of these 1920s Hooker tank cars can be found under lot numbers 9, 19, 60, 66, 366, and 638. ACF built 40 additional 3,000 A.R.A. Class V tank cars (HOKX 301-340) in 1923-1924, however, I have not seen photos of them. Perhaps they are in the Barriger Library Collection.

Some of these 1920s photos can easily be misinterpreted regarding how the cars were painted, which occurred with the original BLI catalogue. This may have been because of the type of film used in which the “orange” and black tended to show little contrast between the two colors. Close inspection reveals the center band was black with the balance of the top portion of the jacket likely being orange (i.e., U.T.L. Red). Lots 9, 19, and 368 show the top portion of the heads painted orange and the bottom portion black. For lots 60, 66, and 366 it’s difficult to tell due to the color contrast.

For the later HOKX cars built starting in 1933, except for the black center band, the orange was used on the top portion of the tank (or jacket, if insulated) and the heads. The balance of the tank or jacket was black as well as the underframe & trucks. 

Four orders totaling 13 cars built in 1934-1936 (615, 618-619, 626-629, 638-643), 6,000 gal., ICC-105A, chlorine tank cars received aluminum stencils while ICC-103B/103BW acid tank cars built from 1937 through 1941 all in the 216-226 series had white stencils. An ACF builder photo of HOKX 219 built 12-39 is shown on the first page of the Barriger site.

Other Hooker Tank cars built by ACF were similarly painted in 1950 and later based on photographs, however, ACF paint specs for these cars are not available.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


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