Date   

Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Ray Breyer
 

>>I wish I could find a treasure trove of similar glass plate negatives for the CB&Q!!!
>>Charlie Vlk


Keep looking through these shots, Charlie. I've found 22 CB&Q cars in them so far, including boxcars, reefers, and even a stock car (CB&Q 53035, loaded with hogs in Hoboken in December 1921).

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Ray Breyer
 

Don't forget about strawboard, which is a little earlier than cardboard and was easier to make. In the Midwest, "strawboard tracks" pop up all over the place on railroad track charts and on Sanborn maps for local, small box makers.
 
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL



From: "Dave Parker spottab@... [STMFC]"
To: "STMFC@..."
Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site



Tony:

We don't disagree.  I probably erred on the side of caution in my wording.  FWIW, this is what Wiki has to say:

"The first corrugated cardboard box manufactured in the USA was in 1895.[16] By the early 1900s, wooden crates and boxes were being replaced by corrugated paper shipping cartons."

Absent data, I too would guess that wooden containers dominated the market through the twenties at a minimum.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA








Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Bill Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Tony & Group,

Appliances were still be shipped in wood crates in the early 1950s. The apartment house that we lived down the street from did a major refitting of appliances that arrived in wooden crates. These crates were set out as trash in the alley from where my Dad salvaged several and constructed a playhouse for me in our back yard. 

Cheers, 
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Jan 3, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Dave Parker wrote:

 
I would have guessed wooden boxes/crates.  Although corrugated boxes were certainly in use by 1919, I don't think they had completely supplanted wood in the shipping business.

       I think cardboard took over MUCH later than 1919. Certainly in produce shipping, not until the 1950s. Appliances were still shipped in wooden crates prior to World War II, not sure about afterwards.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history








Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site - about the collections

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thank you, Ken, I appreciate knowing that people notice.



The stuff in the PRR boxcar shot are “shooks.” Shooks were discussed on this list some time ago, and I’m frankly surprised that it was the first word that came to my mind.



https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shook



Now, about the images. For a very long time, Pat McKnight has been posting exclusively (AFAIK) DL&W images from the DL&W collection of corporate images to the erielack list. He’s looking for help with ID of locations and what the images are showing, and the erielack list provides him with the best likelihood that someone will be able to identify them.



Not wanting to disseminate incorrect information, and with the DL&W photos that’s all too easy, I will say that there were a couple of DL&W corporate photographers. WB Bunnell, was one, and his images have his initials on them: WBB. There was a second photographer who had a similar name, and I can’t recall the way there is to tell the two apart.



But the ERIE images, while they did come to Steamtown from Syracuse University’s archives, are a separate collection by another photographer. I believe that Pat has only recently begun posting ERIE images – or at least I only recently noticed it. I am kind of random about which images I open. I look at the thumbnails and see if there’s something with Freight Car interest, or now, ERIE relevance (ERIE is more my “thing” than DL&W, though both are fascinating roads with different styles. ERIE was a bit of a hard luck working class road, while DL&W was more of a first class money making railroad, hence the money to build the cutoffs in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, including several enormous concrete viaducts, and even to contemplate building their own tunnel under the Hudson to a terminal on Manhattan!) Many of the ERIE images appear to be second or third shots of stations; the first shots (the best shots, maybe) were published in a series of books (soft cover, 8½ x 11, horizontal format) published by The Railroadians, a now-defunct railfan organization in New Jersey. The series was called “The Next Station will be . . .” and covered essentially every station on the ERIE, its branches and associated railroads.



I hope this is of interest.



Schuyler



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 6:43 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site





Most of these photos are from DL&W glass plates formerly stored at Syracuse University. The University donated them to Steamtown. Pat McKnight, the curator, posts a number each day to verify the info they have for the slides. Lately, Pat has posted some Erie main line station photos, but for the most part, these photos we see are shots from the 1920s, shot by Lackawanna company photographers. Trying to pinpoint locations one hundred years or so after the fact gets sporty. SGL does good work, rooting out the many freight cars photos that show up in these old glass plate negatives. So please enjoy the photos.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Dave Parker
 

Tony:

We don't disagree.  I probably erred on the side of caution in my wording.  FWIW, this is what Wiki has to say:

"The first corrugated cardboard box manufactured in the USA was in 1895.[16] By the early 1900s, wooden crates and boxes were being replaced by corrugated paper shipping cartons."

Absent data, I too would guess that wooden containers dominated the market through the twenties at a minimum.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA




Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Jeffrey White
 

This film, The Freight Goes Through dates from the 1950s and shows appliances in crates:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT8WIXDxbyE

Jeff White

Alma, IL


On 1/3/2017 7:45 PM, Tony Thompson tony@... [STMFC] wrote:
�
Dave Parker wrote:

�
I would have guessed wooden boxes/crates.� Although corrugated boxes were certainly in use by 1919, I don't think they had completely supplanted wood in the shipping business.

� � � �I think cardboard took over MUCH later than 1919. Certainly in produce shipping, not until the 1950s. Appliances were still shipped in wooden crates prior to World War II, not sure about afterwards.

Tony Thompson�� � � � � ��Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705�� � � ��www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history







Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Tim O'Connor
 

Possibly, but before corrugated paper boxes, thin wood boxes and baskets
were used for just about everything. Barrels are usually more substantial.

I find the lading of interest here.� I don't see how to determine if this is the loading point
or the unloading point.� A lot of wood cut to a rather specific size but being allowed to�
weather.� I'm thinking these could be an early step towards barrel staves. Other thoughts?
Chuck Peck in FL


Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Tony Thompson
 

Dave Parker wrote:

 
I would have guessed wooden boxes/crates.  Although corrugated boxes were certainly in use by 1919, I don't think they had completely supplanted wood in the shipping business.

       I think cardboard took over MUCH later than 1919. Certainly in produce shipping, not until the 1950s. Appliances were still shipped in wooden crates prior to World War II, not sure about afterwards.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Dave Parker
 

I would have guessed wooden boxes/crates.  Although corrugated boxes were certainly in use by 1919, I don't think they had completely supplanted wood in the shipping business.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 3:13 PM, "'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
Barrel staves were the first thing that came to my mind.
 
Eric Hansmann
El Paso, TX
 
 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 4:12 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site
 



I find the lading of interest here.  I don't see how to determine if this is the loading point
or the unloading point.  A lot of wood cut to a rather specific size but being allowed to 
weather.  I'm thinking these could be an early step towards barrel staves. Other thoughts?
Chuck Peck in FL
 
On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 3:51 PM, rwitt_2000@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:
 




Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Charlie Vlk
 

Eric-

Thanks. I wish I could find a treasure trove of similar glass plate
negatives for the CB&Q!!!

Charlie Vlk



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 4:14 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site





Charlie,



I have not fond a way to search their site. Here's the page where I usually
start trolling around.



http://lists.railfan.net/mplist.cgi?erielack-photo




Maybe some ELRHS members can offer more assistance.



Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX







_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 3:08 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site









How does one get to the Erie historical photos to search for a particular
location?

I want to see if there are any Erie photos in Chicago vicinity of the St.
Charles Air Line.

Thanks,

Charlie Vlk


Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Scott H. Haycock
 

     I'm wondering if this car is being used for storage? The dimensional data is all but illegible, and it's hard to tell, but is the coupler on the B end missing? Notice the words "knuckle pin" above the lowest ladder rung on the right side, and the arrows pointing towards the coupler area. And what could that curly-looking stuff be in the center of the car, through the open door? Could those be bullet holes to the left of the door?

The details at the edge of the roof stand out pretty well in this image. 

Great photo!

Scott Haycock


 


Barrel staves were the first thing that came to my mind.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 




Re: Not stripping, but painting (Scalecoat II)

James E Kubanick
 

I have been using both Scalecoat I and II for years, as my first choice in painting resin and agree with the comments posted above.. Normally, before masking, I allow all Scalecoat to set until all solvent odors leave the dried film. This usually takes five days, or so, depending on room conditions. I have used all types of masking tape without experiencing any adhesion problems but I am currently shifting to the Tamiya tape as it has a but of stretch to it that works well over surface details. It also has a very clean edge that resists paint bleed.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV


On Monday, January 2, 2017 9:58 PM, "'Schuyler Larrabee' schuyler.larrabee@... [STMFC]" wrote:


 
As to tape . . . I have used just about everything except 3M Packing tape . . . drafting tape, Magic tape, the blue painter’s tape . . . but I have had the best experience with 3M 218 Fine Line Tape. I have two rolls 1/16” and ½”. Simple sloth has “prevented” me from buying a couple other widths, but so far I’ve been able to get by with these two. Obviously, I can cut down the ½” where necessary. It has a very smooth, non-fuzzy edge and adheres well. I have place and re-place and re-place and replaced the tape to get it in >exactly< the right location many times, without it losing its stickiness. I press it down with a round wood toothpick using the pointed end, and also the other end sliced at a very flat angle to get a wider flat surface. Never (yet) had it lift paint (touch wood). It also (the narrow tape) can be convinced to bend around curved lines if not too tight a radius. I’ve also slit or kerfed it along one edge to get it to bend a little tighter.

I also use Microscale’s MicroMask when it gets just too complicated to deal with, using the tape as the edges of complicated things, like ladders.

Schuyler

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2017 7:49 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Not stripping, but painting (Scalecoat II)

Having just used Scale Coat II, be aware that it takes a lot longer to dry and fully cure than Floquil does.

Scale Coat also dries to a gloss finish - fine for decaling. A top coat of Testors Dull Coat or something similar that is alcohol based will reduce the shine and not harm the paint

For masking, I've used Tamaya (? Never could spell that name correctly when away from the workbench) which has a thin, reasonably low tack fine-edged masking tape which worked very well over Scale Coat II after it had cured for two or three days.

I've found that the commercial blue and green masking tape has a higher tackiness which can lift relatively fresh paint. One way I found to use it when needed, is to run a strip of it on a piece of glass rubbing it down well.. Then cut what is needed. Pulling it off the glass reduces some of the tacky-ness.

Ed Bommer

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Ken O'Brien
 

Most of these photos are from DL&W glass plates formerly stored at Syracuse University. The University donated them to Steamtown. Pat McKnight, the curator, posts a number each day to verify the info they have for the slides. Lately, Pat has posted some Erie main line station photos, but for the most part, these photos we see are shots from the 1920s, shot by Lackawanna company photographers. Trying to pinpoint locations one hundred years or so after the fact gets sporty. SGL does good work, rooting out the many freight cars photos that show up in these old glass plate negatives. So please enjoy the photos.


Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Eric Hansmann
 

Barrel staves were the first thing that came to my mind.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 4:12 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

 




I find the lading of interest here.  I don't see how to determine if this is the loading point

or the unloading point.  A lot of wood cut to a rather specific size but being allowed to 

weather.  I'm thinking these could be an early step towards barrel staves. Other thoughts?

Chuck Peck in FL

 

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 3:51 PM, rwitt_2000@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 



Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Charles Peck
 

I find the lading of interest here.  I don't see how to determine if this is the loading point
or the unloading point.  A lot of wood cut to a rather specific size but being allowed to 
weather.  I'm thinking these could be an early step towards barrel staves. Other thoughts?
Chuck Peck in FL

On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 3:51 PM, rwitt_2000@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Brian Carlson
 

I was hoping SGL would post first but here goes. First these are not EL photos. They are in Steamtown's collection and posted to the EL mailing list daily (usually) by Pat McKnight of the NPS. They are posted to the EL mailing list since the are generally on the Erie/DL&W east of Binghamton NY. Pat posts them for interest and in many cases to determine additional information about the photos. 

The easiest way to see them are his daily posts. The list can be found at. 

   The Erie Lackawanna Mailing List
   http://EL-List.railfan.net/

The archive is here

And the photo archive is here

Brian J. Carlson

On Jan 3, 2017, at 5:14 PM, 'Eric Hansmann' eric@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:

 

Charlie,

 

I have not fond a way to search their site. Here’s the page where I usually start trolling around.

 

http://lists.railfan.net/mplist.cgi?erielack-photo

 


Maybe some ELRHS members can offer more assistance.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 3:08 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

 




How does one get to the Erie historical photos to search for a particular location?

I want to see if there are any Erie photos in Chicago vicinity of the St. Charles Air Line.

Thanks,

Charlie Vlk



Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Eric Hansmann
 

Charlie,

 

I have not fond a way to search their site. Here’s the page where I usually start trolling around.

 

http://lists.railfan.net/mplist.cgi?erielack-photo

 


Maybe some ELRHS members can offer more assistance.

 

Eric Hansmann

El Paso, TX

 

 

 


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2017 3:08 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

 




How does one get to the Erie historical photos to search for a particular location?

I want to see if there are any Erie photos in Chicago vicinity of the St. Charles Air Line.

Thanks,

Charlie Vlk



Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Mark Stamm
 

Thanks for sharing. There sure is a lot of lumber around that single XL.

Interesting scene the boards look to be about 4-5 long any ideas on their use?

Mark P Stamm
Mark at Euphoriatt dot Com

Sent from my mobile device

On Jan 3, 2017, at 3:51 PM, rwitt_2000@... [STMFC] <STMFC@...> wrote:


Re: More Photos from the Erie Lackawanna web site

Charlie Vlk
 

How does one get to the Erie historical photos to search for a particular location?

I want to see if there are any Erie photos in Chicago vicinity of the St. Charles Air Line.

Thanks,

Charlie Vlk


Re: "Freight Train (1954)"

Steve SANDIFER
 

I captured that plus the gondola loaded with spools.

 

__________________________________________________

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...]
Sent: Monday, January 2, 2017 4:11 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] "Freight Train (1954)"

 

 

Lots of STMFCs in this one. I especially like the two rebuilt tank cars in the opening sequence. Not sure if the link will work: it's on YouTube.

 

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

 

 

Freight Train (1954)

image

Freight Train (1954)

Shows how the cars in a freight train are scheduled, inspected and assembled. Follows the fast freight number 40 on its journey from Kansas City to Chicago. ...

Preview by Yahoo

 

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